[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ToiseOfChoice]

Yeah yeah, you know you like debating more. Anyway you're here so I guess it's Tingle time.

Tingle has two major games going for him (one of which comes out in Japan on Thursday) and a Club Nintendo exclusive based on Balloon Fight. Not bad. Not nearly as good as DK, Yoshi, or Wario (not even remotely close), but aside from those three he's gotta be the only successful spinoff character from a non-Mario franchise.

I'm emphasizing the spinoff aspect because I highly doubt he'll make it in as a Zelda character. In every Zelda appearance he was usually a minor supporting character who usually solves any map-related crisis Link happens to be in, usually no more prominent than any other character in the game. He also hasn't made a full appearance since Minish Cap (though he is referenced in TP and PH).

But none of the Zelda stuff matters since he's on his own now. The question at this point becomes "is his series popular enough to get him in?" Or alternatively "does Sakurai like him a whole bunch?" I can't answer the second question (and neither can you) so let's focus on the first for the time being.

The "Americans hate Tingle" thing has been beaten to death so I won't talk about that. Obviously it carries some weight, but there's not much to discuss. What we should be looking at is how big he is in Europe and Japan. I can't find much of anything regarding his popularity in Europe other than that they don't outright hate him. No sales history, no rants and raves, nothing. Not bad.

Now I can't measure exactly how much Tingle himself means to the Japanese, but they do like him. Not INSANELY POPULAR though. In fact, lemme step aside for a second with that. A lot of people seem to assume "such and such is INSANELY POPULAR in Japan." Most of the time I've heard it in regards to Jigglypuff or SNES era Fire Emblem characters. Or if it's in series, Mother or Fire Emblem. I can't measure who specifically counts as such except Mario and Pikachu. As far as series go, the only ones I've seen the Japanese go absolutely bazonkers for are Mario, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest. Everything else is something of a niche series. Tingle is no exception.


I'm getting hungry so I'm taking a break for a bit. Wizzerd if you're here I'll probably post some Tingle sales stuff in my next post if you're interested.

 

[Wizzerd]

Hmm. I'm not completely sure I understand what you're saying, pretty complex statement. So are you saying that Tingle isn't really important to the mainstream Zelda games? That's true, he's very much splitting off into his own games. However, I'm not entirely sure that he would end up getting his own series. His games all seem to not be connected. That's not to say that they aren't important, but they don't seem to come together and say "I am the Tingle series" with little recurring elements. That said, Love Balloon Trip is confirmed to be a direct sequel, so you never know.

Anyway, I don't think that the fact that America dislikes him should have a big impact on his chances. Like you said, it certainly carries weight, but characters have a whole lot more meaning to those who like them and those who don't. To Tingle haters, Tingle just means a moment of distaste glancing over the roster, and if they're orgasming over K.Rool/Ridley/what-have-you they'll get over it quickly enough. Some people disliked Pokemon being in Smash, but they don't seem to mind using Jigglypuff as a punching bag (Tingle can fill that role for those who do like Pokemon).

Yeah, there seems to be next to no information about what Europe thinks of Tingle. I mean, it seems that Nintendo has information squirreled away about them liking him if they got it (I hate them for that, Rosy Rupeeland cost extra to import though it was worth it ) but nothing's really sure. I guess they seem to be indifferent to him.

You're right about the Japan thing, there isn't too much data about who they like (rather, we can't understand it or find it being in Japanese) and so people tend to go hog-wild over the little bits of information they get, but... yeah. Tingle is undoubtedly popular in Japan but I suppose not hugely.

But the real thing that's going for Tingle is that he has zero competition for the new Zelda slot (assuming there is one). I mean, Vaati's dead as a character (not appearing since early 2005) and all other characters are unnecesary clones (Toon Zelda) or one-shots (Agahnim, King of Red Lions, Linebeck, Midna/Wolf Link (I include Linebeck and Minda/Wolf Link because, while they don't seem to have had much chance to appear, it seems implied that they are the one-shots of their games)).

I hate to play the reps card as it is so controversial, but it definitely has an impact, and I think that we can safely say that the Mario series and Pokemon series will end up with another re... I mean character, since Mario is Nintendo's pride and joy and Pokemon has a hugely deserving character in Mewtwo plus a very possible new Pokemon from a fifth generation, and Zelda would need to follow suit due to selling pretty much the same as both despite not having as good of options for a new character. I mean, I don't mean to suggest that series should just get reps for deserving them if they have no good options, but Tingle isn't a bad option and the Mario, Zelda and Pokemon series will probably always match in reps.

And we might not be able to have a very long debate as I will probably will be logging off in twenty minutes before going to bed. Sorry.

So what do you think of Tingle's chances in the end? I couldn't really tell from your post...

 

[Starphoenix]

Man this thread is so painful to read...

I need Wizzerd or Pieman or Spyder to log on so I can debate stuff with someone, I'm bored.

I hope the first sentence is not including me, that would be pretty discouraging. lol

I will say this, sometimes things that people suggest, or some of the topics we keep revisiting are rather tiring. It always seems to come full circle, Ridley, Mewtwo, Tingle, Krystal, Mario characters, third party characters, hey, here is my SSB4 roster idea; etc... Maybe that is the nature of having a thread this long with so many varying people and ideas, honestly I would like to discuss something fresh for a change. Everytime a unique subject does arise, it seems to quickly become overshadowed by the "usuals". As of right now I am left scratching my head curious as of where we branch off to now? Are we still talking about Goroh? Or are we at Tingle again for the 500th time? It is hard to tell...

I would try and think up something relatively different, but my Slime project is sucking all my internal creative resources. So I will leave the next poster with that challenge.

 

[Zario777]

I think the Mario, LoZ, and the Pokemon series should get another seperate series 2 represent
Mario and Paper Mario series
LoZ and Toon series
Pokemon 1st Gen and 5th(?) Gen
That way you could have Tingle and Vaati (or w/e you youngsters are complaining about these days)
sound good?

 

[drag0nscythe]

I hope the first sentence is not including me, that would be pretty discouraging. lol

I will say this, sometimes things that people suggest, or some of the topics we keep revisiting are rather tiring. It always seems to come full circle, Ridley, Mewtwo, Tingle, Krystal, Mario characters, third party characters, hey, here is my SSB4 roster idea; etc... Maybe that is the nature of having a thread this long with so many varying people and ideas, honestly I would like to discuss something fresh for a change. Everytime a unique subject does arise, it seems to quickly become overshadowed by the "usuals". As of right now I am left scratching my head curious as of where we branch off to now? Are we still talking about Goroh? Or are we at Tingle again for the 500th time? It is hard to tell...

I would try and think up something relatively different, but my Slime project is sucking all my internal creative resources. So I will leave the next poster with that challenge.

I hate tingle and believe he is perfect where he is in Brawl. As an AT.

Onto a new subject.
We all know that each smash had a new innovation.

Melee -> Forward Smash
Brawl -> FS

What would the next one have. Any more B moves would be to much. 4 is enough. Another FS would be lame in a way. Just a repeat of the last one. So what would be something new?

I say Smash ball effects is the way to go.
Instead of just having 'Press B' to use FS, you would have to push both A and B. Then they could add an effect for the smash ball. Increase power of the player who is holding it. To add an adverse effect, hits on the person work like hits on the smash ball. When the person is hit to many times with the smash ball, it has the possibility of breaking inside the person and giving adverse effects, or a reverse FS.

I think the Mario, LoZ, and the Pokemon series should get another seperate series 2 represent
Mario and Paper Mario series
LoZ and Toon series
Pokemon 1st Gen and 5th(?) Gen
That way you could have Tingle and Vaati (or w/e you youngsters are complaining about these days)
sound good?

No to Paper mario.
Toon link was uneeded, but we have him, so we are stuck with him.
Pokemon does need a new gen though.

 

[lordvaati]

Kirby cried when he lost to DeDeDe in Gourmet Race, and Yoshi keels over whenever the Bandit wins a mini-game. The "sore loser" poses could be from games like Mario Party instead of making entirely new ones.

didn't DeDeDe pull on his face when he lost?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Part 1 for Tingle:

Hmm. I'm not completely sure I understand what you're saying, pretty complex statement. So are you saying that Tingle isn't really important to the mainstream Zelda games? That's true, he's very much splitting off into his own games. However, I'm not entirely sure that he would end up getting his own series. His games all seem to not be connected. That's not to say that they aren't important, but they don't seem to come together and say "I am the Tingle series" with little recurring elements. That said, Love Balloon Trip is confirmed to be a direct sequel, so you never know.

Pretty much this. He never had a huge role in the Zelda games and he hasn't made a full appearance since 2004. But he has two games now (three if you JOIN CLUB NINTENDO TODAY, MAC), and that's technically a series. A spinoff, but a series regardless. Basically, I'm suggesting that Tingle's chances as a SSB4 character are entirely based off of the success of his own series, not Zelda. That also means he'd get his own icon instead of a Triforce.

The best characters to compare Tingle to are DK, Yoshi, and Wario. All three of which fit into the same universe as Mario. Of these three, Yoshi is the least divergent, as most of the characters are originally Mario characters (every Yoshi game features Mario and/or Bowser). DK and Wario have their own casts and very rarely even mention Mario in their own games.

Would you label any of these three characters as "Mario characters?" Maybe Yoshi, though he's at least able to upstage Mario. Anyone who suggests DK and Wario still belong to Mario is unaware that the two of them have over a dozen successful titles each (more successful than most of the franchises represented in Smash Bros., even).

Basically, since Tingle has branched out on his own, it's not very logical to assume that he should be grouped with Zelda. Of course it's hard to see it that way when his games technically don't exist to the majority of people here.

Now for the sales:

Donkey Kong Country ---- 3.00m [JP] 9.30m [All]
Yoshi's Island --------- 1.77m [JP] 4.12m [All]
Wario Land ------------- 1.59m [JP] 5.19m [All]

Tingle's Rupeeland ----- 0.24m [JP] (N/A) [All]

Legend of Zelda -------- 1.69m [JP] 6.51m [All]
Adventure of Link ------ 1.61m [JP] 4.38m [All]
Link to the Past ------- 1.16m [JP] 4.61m [All]
Link's Awakening ------- 0.54m [JP] 3.83m [All]
Ocarina of Time -------- 1.46m [JP] 7.60m [All]
Link's Awakening DX ---- 0.51m [JP] 2.22m [All]
Majora's Mask ---------- 0.74m [JP] 3.36m [All]
Oracle of Ages/Seasons - 0.82m [JP] 3.78m [All]
LttP/Four Swords ------- 0.34m [JP] 2.58m [All]
Wind Waker ------------- 0.89m [JP] 4.55m [All]
Four Swords Adventures - 0.13m [JP] (N/A) [All]
Minish Cap ------------- 0.27m [JP] 1.34m [All]
Twilight Princess ------ 0.63m [JP] 6.85m [All]
Phantom Hourglass ------ 0.95m [JP] 4.52m [All]

Emphasizing the sales in Japan since I can't find EU sales and it's not a worldwide release. Compared to the other spinoffs, he's not doing so well. Compared to his main series, he's not doing so well (although Super Mario World and Super Mario Land 2 both outsold Yoshi's Island and Wario Land, respectively). But that's in comparison to other titles, since apparently 250k was enough to turn a profit.

So he's doing alright. Not great, certainly not anything close to the Mario spinoffs, but not awful. Definitely not enough to warrant a playable character if you're big on sales, but Sakurai isn't. So it basically comes down to whether or not Sakurai wants to add a character who isn't liked in one region, accepted in another, and decently popular at home. Or he could just leave him as an assist trophy, whatever works.

For the record, I have nothing against Tingle. As far as making into Smash, as a Zelda character? I'm not seeing it. As his own franchise? I'd call it decent, but not great. I honestly wouldn't mind him.


----------------------------------------------

Now for Part 2:

I hope the first sentence is not including me, that would be pretty discouraging. lol

I don't recall you saying anything particularly ********, you're alright. Actually, I don't have anything against the people who post here, it's really the things people here believe and say. The biggest issues I have are with the various fallacies people make (and this goes for ALL of you):

1. Bigger series MUST have more characters regardless of whether or not certain characters are important or not.
2. Sakurai is limited to a certain number of characters in a series based off of how big they are.
3. Certain series need various aspects to be properly represented in some form:
- a. We must have a Retro character.
- b. We must have a WTF character.
- c. We need a Puzzle League/Mario RPG character.
- d. We need a non blue-haired/non sword-wielding Lord.
- e. We need a 2nd/3rd/4th/5th Gen Pokemon.
- f. We need more females.
- g. We need more villains.
- h. We need a Japanese only character.
- i. We can't have too many sword users.
4. Zelda is on par with Mario and Pokemon, ____ is massively popular in Japan, Donkey Kong has had no good games since DK64, etc.
5. Growth in a series is constant.

For 1, 2, and 3, people are making up limitations or quotas for Sakurai to meet based on perceived patterns from the previous games. Sakurai does whatever he wants. And I mean whatever he wants. He has standards, yes, but not mission statements. If he wants to add more Star Fox and Fire Emblem characters, so be it. Iwata doesn't poke his head into Sakurai's office saying "you're gonna need to add some more Mario characters, that series is BIG!" And I guarantee you he doesn't care about when a character appeared or what they look like. Only that they're popular (sometimes) and relevant to their franchise (but no puppies).

Number 4 is just a bunch of various inaccuracies people spout here as fact. I made this post a month ago hoping most of you would realize just how popular each series actually is, since sales are one of the only concrete ways to measure popularity. As far as characters go, the only way to measure that is through polls, and those typically have a lot of restrictions preventing a completely accurate assessment. Most of you harp on games you've never tried, much less heard of. It's one thing to post a wishlist (I like those, actually), but don't debate stuff you have no clue about. Do your homework, people. And show your work.

Lastly, Number 5. The assumption that what happens before will happen again (which I guess ties into the first three). Sakurai changes his mind all the time. Everyone does. He changed his mind on Kirby characters between Melee and Brawl. He changed his mind on getting rid of Ness for Lucas. He changed his mind on wanting to make more Smash Bros. games so we could argue over this stuff for years. Don't assume what happened before is required to happen again. You'll be in for less of a shock when the game comes out and you'll probably whine less if we get King K. Rool and Dixie Kong, Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow, Roy and Mewtwo, whatever.

 

[n88]

Can we put that in the OP?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Can we put that in the OP?

That would be preferable, yes.

That said, I pretty much agree with what Toise is saying.

I don't recall you saying anything particularly ********, you're alright. Actually, I don't have anything against the people who post here, it's really the things people here believe and say. The biggest issues I have are with the various fallacies people make (and this goes for ALL of you):

1. Bigger series MUST have more characters regardless of whether or not certain characters are important or not.
2. Sakurai is limited to a certain number of characters in a series based off of how big they are.
3. Certain series need various aspects to be properly represented in some form:
- a. We must have a Retro character.
- b. We must have a WTF character.
- c. We need a Puzzle League/Mario RPG character.
- d. We need a non blue-haired/non sword-wielding Lord.
- e. We need a 2nd/3rd/4th/5th Gen Pokemon.
- f. We need more females.
- g. We need more villains.
- h. We need a Japanese only character.
- i. We can't have too many sword users.
4. Zelda is on par with Mario and Pokemon, ____ is massively popular in Japan, Donkey Kong has had no good games since DK64, etc.
5. Growth in a series is constant.

For 1, 2, and 3, people are making up limitations or quotas for Sakurai to meet based on perceived patterns from the previous games. Sakurai does whatever he wants. And I mean whatever he wants. He has standards, yes, but not mission statements. If he wants to add more Star Fox and Fire Emblem characters, so be it. Iwata doesn't poke his head into Sakurai's office saying "you're gonna need to add some more Mario characters, that series is BIG!" And I guarantee you he doesn't care about when a character appeared or what they look like. Only that they're popular (sometimes) and relevant to their franchise (but no puppies).

It is true that most people think that Sakurai would do this or that. Of course, said people have no idea how his thought process works, so we don't have any concrete proof of which characters will show up next, so people theorize a lot.

That said, concerning 3, a bit of variety helps. Also, people fall back on the results of a poll that was made before Brawl got released. Whether or not said poll has any effect on SSB4's roster remains a complete mystery...until it comes out for the next console in a few years or so.

Number 4 is just a bunch of various inaccuracies people spout here as fact. I made this post a month ago hoping most of you would realize just how popular each series actually is, since sales are one of the only concrete ways to measure popularity. As far as characters go, the only way to measure that is through polls, and those typically have a lot of restrictions preventing a completely accurate assessment. Most of you harp on games you've never tried, much less heard of. It's one thing to post a wishlist (I like those, actually), but don't debate stuff you have no clue about. Do your homework, people. And show your work.

I agree with this statement. A person that tries to debate a serious subject with little to no information about it, doesn't really have credibility, I believe (of course, I am not exempt from this).

Lastly, Number 5. The assumption that what happens before will happen again (which I guess ties into the first three). Sakurai changes his mind all the time. Everyone does. He changed his mind on Kirby characters between Melee and Brawl. He changed his mind on getting rid of Ness for Lucas. He changed his mind on wanting to make more Smash Bros. games so we could argue over this stuff for years. Don't assume what happened before is required to happen again. You'll be in for less of a shock when the game comes out and you'll probably whine less if we get King K. Rool and Dixie Kong, Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow, Roy and Mewtwo, whatever.

That may be true. Just because Sakurai might have said that Balloon Fighter or Sukapon doesn't work, doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to fix their issues for the next game and decide to include them. Sakurai's decisions are not necessarily concrete, so one musn't assume that he won't change his mind about who gets in or not.

As the old saying goes, "Only a fool does not change his mind".

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

Yea you guys are right i think that little mac does have a good chance of getting in especially since he has a new game on the wii (a nintendo system) he actually would be a good character because it would be different because they never had a boxer or anyone like that, I wish that square enix would come to their senses and be smart enough to put sora into the game because he would be an amazing character and by then they have would have come out with the new Kingdom Hearts game: Kingdom Hearts: 358/ 2 Days. He would have great moves for the game and his final smash could be turning into Roxas and if they dont want to put Sora into the game they could put Riku since Sora really isnt in the new game

Also they could put maybe the 14th member, also an alternate final smash could be that they call in other members of the group almost like pits final smash but they dont fly in like farries. Also maybe the different colors would be different out fits with different keyblades. I know all of you guys are going to say that square enix isnt going to do it but I have good thoughts and maybe I should write to square enix to ask them if they would approve.


Red

Yellow

Blue

White

Normal

Final Smash (roxas)

Alternate final smash

 

[lordvaati]

Holy crap@ picture sizes.

I actually see his final being Trinity limit, but the only prob I see is his series is associated with Disney, and Nintendo stated that no non-videogame characters are allowed(like for example, Goku or Naruto). now Sora himself is a game character, but if he was put in, the others(like Goofy or Donald) would be in as assist trophies or stickers, breaking that rule.

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

yea your right oh i just thought of something new! maybe like say if he was a character his final smash could be that he gets his disney companions with him to help him fight and his like jump mov/up B move could be that he glides like he could in kh2. But to get some hight he could jump up pretty high then from there he could glide

I wish they were going to make another kingdom hearts for like the playstation 2 like 1 and 2 because i love those games and im pretty sure that on the ds the graphics are going to get worse ): another system that would work would be the xbox 360 that would have good graphicsa and near same controls because there are 4 main buttons like the ps2 and and two trigger buttons in the back and the joy sticks are the same pretty much but unfortunately they dont have any history with microsoft so i doubt they will ever have that happen plus with the ds the touch screen stuff... if they have any... would be very confusing and hard to use flluently.

And sorry for this but im not sure i remember what trinity limit is do u mind briefing me with what a trinity limit is because im sure it is a great thing to use for a final smash

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

yea your right oh i just thought of something new! maybe like say if he was a character his final smash could be that he gets his disney companions with him to help him fight and his like jump mov/up B move could be that he glides like he could in kh2. But to get some hight he could jump up pretty high then from there he could glide

Sorry to disappoint you, but lordvaati already said that Disney characters aren't allowed.

The only way for Sora to get in is if the non-Disney characters (Kairi, Riku, Ansem, Organization XIII, the Heartless...) are used as trophies, stickers and such.

Even then, it's a stretch, since Sora's only official Nintendo appearance was in a midquel Game Boy Advance game.

Since Sora will obviously not show up in the upcoming Kingdom Hearts DS game, well...

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

Sorry to disappoint you, but lordvaati already said that Disney characters aren't allowed.

ok yea sorry forgot but that would be a good idea if they could hahaha

 

[Volkner582]

This discussion is immaterial because Sora will only get in when Hell freezes over.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This discussion is immaterial because Sora will only get in when Hell freezes over.

Indeed.

Now, to change the subject. The only types of fighters that I can think of that haven't been used in Smash yet are boxers (which Little Mac is) and wrestlers (which Pro Wrestling revolves around). Everyone that's been used so far is either a brawler, martial artist, gun slinger, swordsman, combat pragmatist (e.g. Wario) or hand-to-hand fighter. Also, a robot for good measure. Bowser has a couple of sumo wrestling moves, if I'm not mistaken.

This isn't to say who should show up next, it's just an observation of mine.

Any other types of fighters that I am missing?

 

[Pieman0920]

Part 1 for Tingle:

Now for the sales:

Donkey Kong Country ---- 3.00m [JP] 9.30m [All]
Yoshi's Island --------- 1.77m [JP] 4.12m [All]
Wario Land ------------- 1.59m [JP] 5.19m [All]

Tingle's Rupeeland ----- 0.24m [JP] (N/A) [All]

Legend of Zelda -------- 1.69m [JP] 6.51m [All]
Adventure of Link ------ 1.61m [JP] 4.38m [All]
Link to the Past ------- 1.16m [JP] 4.61m [All]
Link's Awakening ------- 0.54m [JP] 3.83m [All]
Ocarina of Time -------- 1.46m [JP] 7.60m [All]
Link's Awakening DX ---- 0.51m [JP] 2.22m [All]
Majora's Mask ---------- 0.74m [JP] 3.36m [All]
Oracle of Ages/Seasons - 0.82m [JP] 3.78m [All]
LttP/Four Swords ------- 0.34m [JP] 2.58m [All]
Wind Waker ------------- 0.89m [JP] 4.55m [All]
Four Swords Adventures - 0.13m [JP] (N/A) [All]
Minish Cap ------------- 0.27m [JP] 1.34m [All]
Twilight Princess ------ 0.63m [JP] 6.85m [All]
Phantom Hourglass ------ 0.95m [JP] 4.52m [All]

Emphasizing the sales in Japan since I can't find EU sales and it's not a worldwide release. Compared to the other spinoffs, he's not doing so well. Compared to his main series, he's not doing so well (although Super Mario World and Super Mario Land 2 both outsold Yoshi's Island and Wario Land, respectively). But that's in comparison to other titles, since apparently 250k was enough to turn a profit.

Isn't it a bit unfair to compare the Tingle series right now to the DK, Yoshi, and Wario series? Tingle's only had one game so far, and the only reason his series can even be considered a series is because he's going to have another game released very soon. And I don't see why he wouldn't be in as a Zelda character, since there's really no one better suited for that role. Outside of the fact that he has his own games, he's one of the very rare reoccuring Zelda characters, which puts him over a flavor of the month status that other helpers may suffer from. (A good deal of people may want Midna now, but by the time the new Zelda comes out, its very possible people will be wanting this sword girl)

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

what bout a sports star

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Indeed.

Now, to change the subject. The only types of fighters that I can think of that haven't been used in Smash yet are boxers (which Little Mac is) and wrestlers (which Pro Wrestling revolves around). Everyone that's been used so far is either a brawler, martial artist, gun slinger, swordsman, combat pragmatist (e.g. Wario) or hand-to-hand fighter. Also, a robot for good measure. Bowser has a couple of sumo wrestling moves, if I'm not mistaken.

This isn't to say who should show up next, it's just an observation of mine.

Any other types of fighters that I am missing?

Magic users like Zelda are in Brawl, which also has a ninja-like fighter, which is Sheik (she's so awesome!). We already have a robot in the Smash series, which is R.O.B. The game also has two commander-type playable characters (Olimar and the Pokemon Trainer). We also had Mewtwo in Melee as the psychic user who doesn't touch things with its hands (Ness and Lucas do), but it got cut from Brawl.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Magic users like Zelda are in Brawl, which also has a ninja-like fighter, which is Sheik (she's so awesome!). We already have a robot in the Smash series, which is R.O.B. The game also has two commander-type playable characters (Olimar and the Pokemon Trainer).

That's right! I forgot about the magic users. How silly of me.

Commander-type, huh? Well, that's good to know.

I did mention that we have a robot in the form of R.O.B. (if I didn't express myself clearly, then I apologize).

I also forgot to mention that we have a couple of hammer-wielders: the Ice Climbers and good old King Dedede (oh, yeah! ).

 

[lordvaati]

@ smashguy

Trinity Limit was an ability where a seal appeared on the ground, Sora stuck his Keyblade in it, and then an explosion happened(or something like that.). It was from chain of memories.

@Kirby worshipper

Mr. G&W and Luigi would probably a kind of Wild Card fighting style, sine they mostly fight using the unpredictability of their attacks(like G&W's Judgement and grab, or Luigi's Green Missile or SJP.)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

@Kirby worshipper

Mr. G&W and Luigi would probably a kind of Wild Card fighting style, sine they mostly fight using the unpredictability of their attacks(like G&W's Judgement and grab, or Luigi's Green Missile or SJP.)

Well, when I was talking about combat pragmatists, this is exactly the kind of fighting style I was referring to. I should've used a simpler term. :embarrass Thank you for pointing it out, though.

Also, I forgot the psychics, too.

I'm not sure, but I believe that Snake's fighting style falls into "explosives expert", for the most part.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Does anybody have any ideas for Micaiah's moveset? If so, I would like to see it, please. Thank you!

Edit: Here's my idea:

Standard Special: Shoots an light spell from her hand and the spell can do damage and change direction like Snake's remote-controlled missle, but doesn't explode and after it hits, a small area of light will appear and obscure the view for a rather short while

Side Special: Puts her hand in front of her and creates a small force field from her hand that will knock back any opponent she gets a hold of (I saw that on Teen Titans; Brother Blood did that kind of attack once on Cyborg)

Up Special: Flies either straight up or forward with light magic and can knock back opponents like Wolf's Up Special does

Down Special: She creates a barrier that can both reflect projectiles of any type and launch opponents who make contact with her

Final Smash: Fires a beam of light energy that can point in any direction she chooses and functions like Samus's Final Smash, but without transformations and can't change direction once it starts

 

[Pieman0920]

You know this isn't really a moveset topic or anything, so you shouldn't really expect people to come up with much. Its probably a better idea to ask MYM, though I guess they may not take requests over there.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

You know this isn't really a moveset topic or anything, so you shouldn't really expect people to come up with much. Its probably a better idea to ask MYM, though I guess they may not take requests over there.

What's MYM? Nevermind, I figured it out.

 

[Wizzerd]

I doubt that me or any other MYMers will take requests, we all do movesets for the characters we want to do. You can make the moveset yourself, but we do entire movesets (not just specials and a final smash) and at a MUCH higher level of detail. Look at the Takamaru in my sig for an example.

Anyway, nice post, Toise (can I call you that?). I completely agree that we don't need to rep all gens equally/not put in more sword users/more females or villians or female villians, and I suppose you have a point about those earlier things about series reppage, though I'm a reps advocate myself. Perhaps I'll reconsider.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Isn't it a bit unfair to compare the Tingle series right now to the DK, Yoshi, and Wario series? Tingle's only had one game so far, and the only reason his series can even be considered a series is because he's going to have another game released very soon.

I'm not comparing the series, I'm comparing their "breakout" titles, the games where they clearly established themselves as their own series (or subseries for Yoshi):

Donkey Kong Country (SNES), 1994
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (SNES), 1995
Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 (GB) 1994

I suppose it's technically unfair to compare Tingle to Yoshi since Mario and Bowser are always in his games. But how is it unfair to compare him to DKC or WL1? The only justification would be that Rosy Rupeeland ISN'T Tingle's big debut on his own, but well, it is. If he stands on his own, he'll be judged on his own. If you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest.

Of course I also mentioned that his first game is technically a success since it turned a profit. And, you know, the whole sequel thing. Not on par with the other spinoffs but he's not a failure.

And I don't see why he wouldn't be in as a Zelda character, since there's really no one better suited for that role. Outside of the fact that he has his own games, he's one of the very rare reoccuring Zelda characters, which puts him over a flavor of the month status that other helpers may suffer from. (A good deal of people may want Midna now, but by the time the new Zelda comes out, its very possible people will be wanting this sword girl)

Why do we need a new Zelda character? You said it yourself, no one is suited for the role. Everyone else is either a major one-shot (Midna, King of Red Lions, and my personal favorite Old Man Sahasrahlalararlahlah) or a minor semi-recurrer (Tingle, Impa, the Fairy Queen). They're all unimportant and you can (and will) have Zelda games without them.

The reason why Tingle stands out is entirely BECAUSE he has his own series. If it wasn't for that, we'd probably never see him again since he's been out of the Zelda games for 5 years now and no one expects him to be in the next two games either. And why should he? He's working on his own thing now in a place where Americans won't have to look at him.

If you're advocating a new Zelda character for the sake of a new Zelda character, you should expect nothing. That's not how characters get in. If you're advocating Tingle because you like him, then you're really Wizzerd in disguise.

 

[UberMario]

Should they have customizable physics in the next game? (With four presets: 64-Style, Melee-Style, Brawl Style, and *Insert Random Fighting Word*-Style).

That way, people wouldn't be constantly hacking the physics to be Melee-esque.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm not comparing the series, I'm comparing their "breakout" titles, the games where they clearly established themselves as their own series (or subseries for Yoshi):

Donkey Kong Country (SNES), 1994
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (SNES), 1995
Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 (GB) 1994

I suppose it's technically unfair to compare Tingle to Yoshi since Mario and Bowser are always in his games. But how is it unfair to compare him to DKC or WL1? The only justification would be that Rosy Rupeeland ISN'T Tingle's big debut on his own, but well, it is. If he stands on his own, he'll be judged on his own. If you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest.

Oh, sorry then, I didn't pay enough attention there. In any case, since the Donkey Kong series itself existed before the Mario series, I'm not sure if you'd truly count that, since technically DKC wasn't Donkey Kong's first game. Thusly, Wario is probably the closest thing to Tingle in these regards.

Why do we need a new Zelda character? You said it yourself, no one is suited for the role. Everyone else is either a major one-shot (Midna, King of Red Lions, and my personal favorite Old Man Sahasrahlalararlahlah) or a minor semi-recurrer (Tingle, Impa, the Fairy Queen). They're all unimportant and you can (and will) have Zelda games without them.

I said no one besides Tingle is. Tingle works perfectly fine for it. Tingle's direct role in the Zelda games may be fairly minor, but combined with his own series, he really is the best choice.

The reason why Tingle stands out is entirely BECAUSE he has his own series. If it wasn't for that, we'd probably never see him again since he's been out of the Zelda games for 5 years now and no one expects him to be in the next two games either. And why should he? He's working on his own thing now in a place where Americans won't have to look at him.

In spite of officially not being in TP, Paurlo is basically him in a realistic apperance. In addition he made a cameo in PH. In any case, saying its five years since he's made a proper apperance is kind of making it seem worse than it really is, since its just been two games where he's only had cameos. (While in the mean time having his own series) Plus, why wouldn't he show up in the next games? I guess he may not show up in the new Wii game, but I'm pretty sure he'll show up in some form for Spirit Tracks, like he did in PH. Thinking about it, its almost like saying that Luigi should have been switched over to the Mario series in Melee, since Luigi never had any major role in the main series, besides being a player 2, was excluded out of SM64 (and later Sunshine) and had stared in at least two games by the time of Melee's release.

If you're advocating a new Zelda character for the sake of a new Zelda character, you should expect nothing. That's not how characters get in. If you're advocating Tingle because you like him, then you're really Wizzerd in disguise.

I'm advocating Tingle because a new Zelda character is inevitable, and given Tingle's recent increase of exposure, he's the obvious pick.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If Tingle does end up in the next game's roster, I won't mind too much...since I'll be too busy orgasming over the rest of the new additions!

But seriously, I'm a fairly forgiving person. While Tingle is indeed silly, it would be interesting to see what he would bring to the table.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Tingle's direct role in the Zelda games may be fairly minor, but combined with his own series, he really is the best choice.

So we have a character. This character is minor in Series A but stars in Series B. Therefore he should represent Series A.

In spite of officially not being in TP, Paurlo is basically him in a realistic apperance. In addition he made a cameo in PH. In any case, saying its five years since he's made a proper apperance is kind of making it seem worse than it really is, since its just been two games where he's only had cameos. (While in the mean time having his own series) Plus, why wouldn't he show up in the next games? I guess he may not show up in the new Wii game, but I'm pretty sure he'll show up in some form for Spirit Tracks, like he did in PH.

Saying it's been five years isn't making it seem worse than it really is. That's what it really is. Appearing on a poster behind a bartender means nothing to nobody, but I won't rule out Tingle's chances of appearing on some obscure surface in Spirit Tracks.

The Purlo logic is flawed because Purlo is Purlo, not Tingle. Dressed like Tingle, but that's it. Tingle is a fruit, Purlo is a prick. Now I guess Marin was technically in five games instead of one since Malon is basically her, right?

Thinking about it, its almost like saying that Luigi should have been switched over to the Mario series in Melee, since Luigi never had any major role in the main series, besides being a player 2, was excluded out of SM64 (and later Sunshine) and had stared in at least two games by the time of Melee's release.

I'm in a rush so I can't try to make sense of why you'd come up with such a horrible analogy. If you want to explain this, keep in mind you're comparing Luigi to Tingle. I'm really curious to see where you're gonna go with that.

I'm advocating Tingle because a new Zelda character is inevitable, and given Tingle's recent increase of exposure, he's the obvious pick.

Answer me this: why is a new Zelda character inevitable?

 

[Big-Cat]

Should they have customizable physics in the next game? (With four presets: 64-Style, Melee-Style, Brawl Style, and *Insert Random Fighting Word*-Style).

That way, people wouldn't be constantly hacking the physics to be Melee-esque.

No, as the evidence been shown indicates, having different physics set ups would confuse things up with four tier lists.

 

[UberMario]

No, as the evidence been shown indicates, having different physics set ups would confuse things up with four tier lists.

All the better, then there wouldn't be biased main choices based on tiers. Everyone would actually try using the character they like.

 

[KnuxMaster]

I'd like to see Darkrai in the next game he'd be awesome

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'd like to see Darkrai in the next game he'd be awesome

In a pokéball? Maybe.

As a playable character? I'm sorry to say that it's doubtful.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Here's my newest roster (that's the third one)!

Note that I'm not using placeholders like "New FE Lord" or "5th Gen Pokemon."

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Bowser Jr., and Fawful

DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and King K. Rool

Zelda: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Tingle

Metroid: Samus, and Ridley

Yoshi: Yoshi

Wario: Wario

Kirby: Kirby, Meta-Knight, and King Dedede

Starfox: Fox, Falco, and Wolf

Pokemon: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer (with Squirtle (or maybe Wartortle), Ivysaur, and Charizard), Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Mewtwo

F-Zero: Captain Falcon, and Samurai Goroh

Earthbound/Mother: Ness, and Lucas

Fire Emblem: Marth, Ike, and Micaiah

Retro/Other Nintendo: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Olimar, R.O.B., Little Mac, Saki, Isaac, Animal Crosser, Mach Rider, and Takamaru

Third-Party: Megaman, and Simon Belmont

Feel free to make suggestions. But here are a few rules I would like you to follow when commenting on my roster:

1. A rule of Sakurai's: Only characters with video game origins are eligible, so that means no Naruto, Yoda, Goku, etc.

2. A rule of KumaOso's: No using placeholders such as "New FE Lord" or "Fifth Gen Pokemon"

I also have some advice:

1. If you're going to suggest Peach, I won't add her, so don't waste a post

2. If you don't like something on my roster, then I suggest you make your own

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Um, how about adding Mach Rider in the retro/other section? I'm sure that he can pull a Captain Falcon and be able to fight on the ground (he lives in a post-apocalyptic Earth, so it makes sense that he would be able to fend for himself).

If it's not too much to ask, of course. If it is, I'll just post my own roster instead.

All the better, then there wouldn't be biased main choices based on tiers. Everyone would actually try using the character they like.

I don't really care about the physics all that much. I simply pick the characters that I want to play with and have fun.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Um, how about adding Mach Rider in the retro/other section? I'm sure that he can pull a Captain Falcon and be able to fight on the ground (he lives in a post-apocalyptic Earth, so it makes sense that he would be able to fend for himself).

If it's not too much to ask, of course. If it is, I'll just post my own roster instead.

I added Mach Rider, but I had to remove Galleom, since I will not make more than fifty character slots, and that I realized that Galleom might be a waste of a slot.

You can still post your own roster if you would like.

I forgot to mention that after I log off this forum, I won't be back for about three days. As for why, let's just say that something in my schedule is going to prevent me from coming back for a few days. I'm just giving a heads-up.

 

[justaway12]

I want to try to feedback.

Note that I'm not using placeholders like "New FE Lord" or "5th Gen Pokemon."

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Bowser Jr., and Fawful

1. If you're going to suggest Peach, I won't add her, so don't waste a post

>____________________________> No offenence but that is just being stubborn, you may not like her but do you honestly belive that she isn't going to appear?

Anyway, I am not going to get into that, isn't there some slightly more imporatant charters than Fawful? I personally think Paper Mario is.

Metroid: Samus, and Ridley

I think ZSS has a shot

Smash Bros/SSE: Tabuu

I don't think really think he would appear due to the fact that this is basically a game, with Nintendo characters from other consoles getting together.

Retro/Other Nintendo: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Olimar, R.O.B., Little Mac, Saki, Isaac, Animal Crosser, Mach Rider, and Takamaru

Isn't there a bit too much retro?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Now then, concerning Tingle. What would his series symbol be? Also, could his FS be anything similar to his AT function in Brawl?

You can still post your own roster if you would like.

That's cool. :bigthumbu I'll do that later on.