[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[lordvaati]

As I've said in the past, there's still no content in Brawl except for Peach's frying pan and the mention in the chronicle. That's it. Also, if SMRPG is going to have more content it has to be big. Neither company is going to bother with each other for a few stickers, a trophy, an assist trophy, etc.

*throws a pie at pieman* Paper Mario is not a true sequel to SMRPG and neither are the Mario and Luigi games based on their playstyles and how they don't have any of the characters from the old games, not even minor ones. There's nothing that truely ties those games together aside from a few basic things. Basically the only thing that's been retained is the collecting of seven stars and Mario RPGs weird sense of humor.

Geno cameoed in Superstar Saga. just saying.

..heck, its quite a feat that Fawful has done as well as he has, given that no other recurring Beanbean character to the best of my knowledge.

that's because Fawful was the most original Mario villain to come out for a while, and the fans loved it.

 

[Big-Cat]

Does anyone want to see a Nintendo Vs Capcom before ssb4?
:3

I just want to see it happen period. Granted, I would rather that it's gameplay be like Smash, but allowing you to swap like the traditional VS. games. There are so many fights I'd love to see:

Chun-Li VS Samus (Who DOESN'T want to see this?)
Captain Falcon VS Viewtiful Joe
Mario VS Ryu
Pikachu VS Blanka
Samus VS Megaman
Link VS Dante

 

[Clownbot]

I just want to see it happen period. Granted, I would rather that it's gameplay be like Smash, but allowing you to swap like the traditional VS. games. There are so many fights I'd love to see:

Chun-Li VS Samus (Who DOESN'T want to see this?)
Captain Falcon VS Viewtiful Joe
Mario VS Ryu
Pikachu VS Blanka
Samus VS Megaman
Link VS Dante

You lose points for not including any Resident Evil or Phoenix Wright characters.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Geno cameoed in Superstar Saga. just saying.

I know Geno cameoed (in a mini game) in Superstar Saga and it's because Alphadream was founded by ex-Square Enix employees. In fact, a lot of the employees who worked on the Mario and Luigi games also worked on SMRPG. Despite this, SMRPG hasn't had a true sequel yet.

@ Pieman:

Really, it's a matter of SMRPG being the first major collab between Nintendo and a third party and it's never gotten credit for it. Star Fox Assault and the Donkey Konga games got credit despite being developed by Namco. The Mario Party games got a nod despite being developed by Hudson Soft. The Minish Cap and both Four Swords games were mentioned despite being developed by Capcom. F-Zero GX was developed by SEGA and, again, was recongised too. It's a pretty big deal over-all when you consider how Nintendo was before the Gamecube generation when it came to third parties. Regarding Super Paper Mario, that game got a ton of trophies and stickers in Brawl and Super Mario Bros 3 has had music, trophies, and stickers not only in Brawl but Melee too.

 

[Volkner582]

As I've said in the past, there's still no content in Brawl except for Peach's frying pan and the mention in the chronicle. That's it. Also, if SMRPG is going to have more content it has to be big. Neither company is going to bother with each other for a few stickers, a trophy, an assist trophy, etc.

*throws a pie at pieman* Paper Mario is not a true sequel to SMRPG and neither are the Mario and Luigi games based on their playstyles and how they don't have any of the characters from the old games, not even minor ones. There's nothing that truely ties those games together aside from a few basic things. Basically the only thing that's been retained is the collecting of seven stars and Mario RPGs weird sense of humor.

The heart-shaped explosion Peach's Side B is also from SMRPG, and I believe Mario's Up Tilt is as well.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The heart-shaped explosion Peach's Side B is also from SMRPG, and I believe Mario's Up Tilt is as well.

Both are highly questionable. Peach's "symbol" in Mario RPG was the heart, Mallow's was a clover, Mario's was a spade, and Bowser's was a diamond. The heart appeared whenever Peach did a special attack except for psych bomb. All in all, it was never used during physical attacks, just the healing moves and "sleepy time." Mario's up tilt slightly resembles the Mega Glove, but, then again, a lot of the physical attacks cause the characters appendages to increase in size when you use them. For example, Mario's feet are huge in the opening frames of his dsmash and Ness hands are big in the opening frames of his nair.

 

[Big-Cat]

You lose points for not including any Resident Evil or Phoenix Wright characters.

I couldn't think of any good crossups. Maybe Fox VS Chris Redfield.

 

[Arcadenik]

I really don't think Geno is the right character to represent the Mario franchise as a whole. He has been in only one game... one game out of more than 100 games in the whole Mario franchise. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are major recurring characters who have appeared in almost all the games in the Mario franchise, both canon and spin-off. That's why they properly represent the Mario franchise as a whole. Geno never appeared in any spin-off games and he is not a recurring character (let alone a major recurring character) in canon games. Adding Geno would misrepresent the Mario franchise as a whole because customers and fans would question why he is there if he's been in only one game in the whole Mario franchise. Geno is overrated, even more so than Ridley because at least Ridley is a major recurring character in the whole Metroid franchise.

 

[n88]

Geno cameoed in Superstar Saga. just saying.

that's because Fawful was the most original Mario villain to come out for a while, and the fans loved it.

Geno's cameo in Superstar Saga was incredibly minor. I played through the game three times and never really picked up on his appearance. (That could have something to do with my intelligence, but I usually pick up on stuff like that) Fawful is incredibly funny, so of course everyone loves him.

I really don't think Geno is the right character to represent the Mario franchise as a whole. He has been in only one game... one game out of more than 100 games in the whole Mario franchise. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are major recurring characters who have appeared in almost all the games in the Mario franchise, both canon and spin-off. That's why they properly represent the Mario franchise as a whole. Geno never appeared in any spin-off games and he is not a recurring character (let alone a major recurring character) in canon games. Adding Geno would misrepresent the Mario franchise as a whole because customers and fans would question why he is there if he's been in only one game in the whole Mario franchise. Geno is overrated, even more so than Ridley because at least Ridley is a major recurring character in the whole Metroid franchise.

Geno probably wouldn't be counted as a complete Mario character. I figured he would be over with the third-parties, who have as much to do with Nintendo as he does.

You reject Geno because you say he's not important to the Mario franchise. Really, though, almost all of the important characters are already in Smash.

Important, un-added characters (From Veteran Series):

Bowser Jr.
Toad
K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Ridley

Those are the only characters that are really important to their series that can be added. There will be more than five newcomers in SSB4. These other newcomers will represent a new series or be an unimportant character from a pre-existing one. I thik we're fairly likely to see a few un-important characters make it in.

 

[Wizzerd]

Geno's cameo in Superstar Saga was incredibly minor. I played through the game three times and never really picked up on his appearance. (That could have something to do with my intelligence, but I usually pick up on stuff like that) Fawful is incredibly funny, so of course everyone loves him.

Geno cameoed in the "Star Stache" game in Superstar Saga, which you have to play to get the mushroom that gives Mario Bean Disease so that Luigi has to go through Guffawha (sp?) Ruins. He was the puppet on a hand that taught you how to play. He was never named as Geno, and you only have to play Star Stache once to advance the plot, but Square wanted to be mentioned in the credits anyway because they're that greedy.

 

[Pieman0920]

I know Geno cameoed (in a mini game) in Superstar Saga and it's because Alphadream was founded by ex-Square Enix employees. In fact, a lot of the employees who worked on the Mario and Luigi games also worked on SMRPG. Despite this, SMRPG hasn't had a true sequel yet.

@ Pieman:

Really, it's a matter of SMRPG being the first major collab between Nintendo and a third party and it's never gotten credit for it. Star Fox Assault and the Donkey Konga games got credit despite being developed by Namco. The Mario Party games got a nod despite being developed by Hudson Soft. The Minish Cap and both Four Swords games were mentioned despite being developed by Capcom. F-Zero GX was developed by SEGA and, again, was recongised too. It's a pretty big deal over-all when you consider how Nintendo was before the Gamecube generation when it came to third parties. Regarding Super Paper Mario, that game got a ton of trophies and stickers in Brawl and Super Mario Bros 3 has had music, trophies, and stickers not only in Brawl but Melee too.

In regards to that trophies and stickers thing, whoever was in charge of the trophies this time around was pretty darn lazy with them and mostly ripped them from other games, so even if Geno had gotten into Brawl, there would be no SMRPG trophies.

But still, there has been no SMB3 stage, and relativly less musical tracks in comparison to other games, so I would think that there should be some focus on it, with at least a stage. Heck, even SMB2 got one, and that's kind of the black sheep of the Mario platformers. Also, despite having trophies (ripped from the game, like most of Brawl's trophies) and stickers, there was really no representation SPM, which as I said, which has several points over SMRPG. If a game like that has yet to be represented in any real capacity, then why would a less sucessful and older third party game have more? Plus, the fact that the game was one of the earlier (though not first) company team ups that Nintendo did, I really don't think that in itself is any reason to say that it stands out over the other games. As well all know, the fact that it was a collaberation is the reason why most of its characters have never been seen again, and probably why its never gotten a true sequel.

 

[n88]

@ Wizzerd

I know where he is now, I just completely missed him the first few times I played.

 

[UberMario]

If there WAS a SMB3 stage, which one of the following themes would you want it to have?

Blocks (Those giant wooden blocks with screws that were sitting on wood platforms)
Pipe Land (Loads of pipes)
In the Sky (A horizontal auto-scroller with the flying wooden blocks)
Fortress
At the bay. (A horizontal auto-scroller with Boss Bass)

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I really don't think Geno is the right character to represent the Mario franchise as a whole. He has been in only one game... one game out of more than 100 games in the whole Mario franchise. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are major recurring characters who have appeared in almost all the games in the Mario franchise, both canon and spin-off. That's why they properly represent the Mario franchise as a whole. Geno never appeared in any spin-off games and he is not a recurring character (let alone a major recurring character) in canon games. Adding Geno would misrepresent the Mario franchise as a whole because customers and fans would question why he is there if he's been in only one game in the whole Mario franchise. Geno is overrated, even more so than Ridley because at least Ridley is a major recurring character in the whole Metroid franchise.

That 'one game' left a legacy that's spanned 13 years and 7 more games. And why does Geno 'need' to appear in a spin-off game for you to recognize him? He's popular, unique, has the moveset potential and interest, etc. What more do you want from Geno to be considered for Smash Bros.?

"Adding Geno would misrepresent the Mario franchise...," let me just stop you right there and say that Smash Bros. isn't political (I swear some of you are the GOP of Smash). Fans, most fans, aren't gonna question his appearance. No one does this, not even the most staunch Smash fan does this, and even if they did, how long will that 'shock' last? How long will it last before they realize that it doesn't matter as long as they have SSB4. No one questioned an unknown like Roy, IC, Pit, etc., I don't see why that'd change for Geno.

You may say that Geno is overrated, but as long as you fail to acknowledge that Geno is a possible candidate for Smash Bros, you'll probably always say that. You may think Smash Bros. has it's own politics which governs what characters are qualified to enter, but it's not as profound as you see it.

If there WAS a SMB3 stage, which one of the following themes would you want it to have?

Blocks (Those giant wooden blocks with screws that were sitting on wood platforms)
Pipe Land (Loads of pipes)
In the Sky (A horizontal auto-scroller with the flying wooden blocks)
Fortress
At the bay. (A horizontal auto-scroller with Boss Bass)

All of those, but these gameplay elements I'd much rather have in SSB4s' story mode. We had nothing but Kirby themes in SSE, this time it should incorparate themes and levels based off of respective Nintendo franchises. It's an "All-Star" game afterall.

A matter of fact, I'm gonna look through all the games and choose some gameplay elements for story mode right now. ;D

 

[Pieman0920]

If there WAS a SMB3 stage, which one of the following themes would you want it to have?

Blocks (Those giant wooden blocks with screws that were sitting on wood platforms)
Pipe Land (Loads of pipes)
In the Sky (A horizontal auto-scroller with the flying wooden blocks)
Fortress
At the bay. (A horizontal auto-scroller with Boss Bass)

I'd like it to be like Kingdom I and II in a sense. Just a simple stage filled with SMB3 set pieces. (So blocks and pipes?)

Also Scooby, about SMRPG's legacy, remember that whatever impact it makes, that means SMRPG made that impact, not Geno. Geno didn't make that game what it was, and wasn't the main character. The game already has three of its party members fully playable, so in that regard, the game is well covered.

And while Smash may not be politics, its still completely true that Geno doesn't represent the Mario series well, while all the other characters so far do. Characters like Roy, IC, and Pit all represent their own series well enoguh (at least Roy did at the time) and were the main characters of their games, unlike Geno.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

UberMario, I had an idea of a Mario stage similar to Mushroomy Kingdom, but I call it Mushroom Kingdoms. Its plural because when you choose the stage, it will randomly choose between three different stages, each one representing the first level of a different Super Mario Bros. game, kind of like World 1-1 and World 1-2 in Mushroomy Kingdom. This way, all three Super Mario Bros. get recognition.

About Geno, I don't think his popularity matters much. He has a lot of popularity, but it doesn't rival that of Sonic's or Mega Man's. He is a Mario character who only appeared in one game with a main role, but not THE main role. He only appeared in one game, which was a part of the Mario RPG spinoffs and Paper Mario, being both more popular and more recent, probably deserves a spot first. So...

-There are more deserving Mario characters (Bowser Jr., Toad, Paper Mario)
-Paper Mario is more recent and a better representative of Mario RPGs.
-There are more deserving Third Parties from Square Enix as well, and just more deserving Third Parties in general.

If Geno gets in, its only due to popularity, and that isn't very likely.

 

[Starphoenix]

Geno barely represents Square Enix well... Look I admire the blue doll and all, SMRPG was a fabulous game. But I would much rather see a different Square rep; like Slime, or Crono (especially Crono). I also think Paper Mario is more deserving of a slot, given the fact the series is still ongoing. Plus PM is long overdue for some type of acknowledgment beyond trophies... No stage or music Sakurai?

 

[lordvaati]

an MK III stage should definately be either one of the airships or tanks.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Also Scooby, about SMRPG's legacy, remember that whatever impact it makes, that means SMRPG made that impact, not Geno. Geno didn't make that game what it was, and wasn't the main character. The game already has three of its party members fully playable, so in that regard, the game is well covered.

I'm not saying Geno defined SMRPG, but he definitely left his mark on the game. He didn't have to be the main character for people to like him or want him for Smash Bros.

Another thing, I've noticed in many of your post concerning Geno how you tend to think that the Mario, Peach, and Bowser is Smash are the SMRPG counterparts. Exactly what makes you think that? I'm curious.

And while Smash may not be politics, its still completely true that Geno doesn't represent the Mario series well, while all the other characters so far do. Characters like Roy, IC, and Pit all represent their own series well enoguh (at least Roy did at the time) and were the main characters of their games, unlike Geno.

I'm going to ignore the term 'represent' from here on out. People can't seem the shake their political beliefs.

But anyway, why does this matter as far as Smash Bros. is concerned? The truth is, you don't have to be a main character to get into Smash Bros. You don't have to be in multiple games or spin-offs to get into Smash Bros. Your game don't have to sell well to get into Smash Bros. What matters most is what I mentioned in my previous post.

@Starphoenix: If Geno got in, he'd be a Mario character. I'm still holding out for Black Mage to to be the SE character. Plus, I'm not a fan of having 2 Marios' in Smash. Don't you think that Paper Mario would be in Smash Bros. already if he was more deserving? Perhaps Sakurai isn't very fond of him.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

@Starphoenix: If Geno got in, he'd be a Mario character. I'm still holding out for Black Mage to to be the SE character. Plus, I'm not a fan of having 2 Marios' in Smash. Don't you think that Paper Mario would be in Smash Bros. already if he was more deserving? Perhaps Sakurai isn't very fond of him.

You don't quite understand. Sonic is a Sonic character. Snake is a Metal Gear Solid character. Mega Man would be a Mega Man character. And yes, Geno would be a Mario character. But what Phoenix and a few other people are trying to say is that each of these characters also represents (excuse my political beliefs ) the Third Party developer they came from. Sakurai isn't going to overshadow any other Third Party company by adding two from the same one, and adding both Geno AND Black Mage, for example, would be doing just that. He may be a Mario character, but he represents Square Enix, where their are much more deserving and recent characters. He also represents Mario where there are also much more deserving and recent characters. Finally, he also represents the Mario RPG spinoff series, where, once again, there are other possible characters, ones that are more deserving and more recent like Paper Mario. You can't say he wouldn't get in because he's like Mario, what's your excuse for Toon Link?

In the end, though, we are most likely going to see only 5 character slots for each series (one more than we had in Brawl) and the fifth slot for Mario would most likely go to Bowser Jr., with Toad and Paper Mario not far behind, so it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

(excuse my political beliefs )

lol

Sakurai isn't going to overshadow any other Third Party company by adding two from the same one, and adding both Geno AND Black Mage, for example, would be doing just that.

I'm inclined to say it wouldn't. I see what you're saying and understand it quite well, but I don't think it's as black and white as you're making it out to be.

If anything is going to get obscured, it's Geno and Black Mage. Why? I'm not sure if you noticed, but the Sonic and MGS franchises are juggernauts. It'd be silly to think that Black Mage and Geno overshadows those two. Mega Man would also easily overshadow them if he was included, which I'm sure he will.

Eh, but yeah, Geno is a bit different from Sonic or Snake. Does his Mario status hold more merit than his third party status? I dunno.

He may be a Mario character, but he represents Square Enix, where their are much more deserving and recent characters. He also represents Mario where there are also much more deserving and recent characters. Finally, he also represents the Mario RPG spinoff series, where, once again, there are other possible characters, ones that are more deserving and more recent like Paper Mario.

Whether a character is 'more deserving' or not I don't think is a issue for Sakurai when choosing characters, otherwise Ridley would be playable before ZSS. There could very well be more deserving characters, but if he isn't interested in them, then what does it matter?

You can't say he wouldn't get in because he's like Mario, what's your excuse for Toon Link?

I can and will. I would think TL managed to get in because of his popularity and interest. Paper Mario may be popular, but Sakurai hasn't shown any interest for him nor his games.

In the end, though, we are most likely going to see only 5 character slots for each series (one more than we had in Brawl) and the fifth slot for Mario would most likely go to Bowser Jr., with Toad and Paper Mario not far behind, so it doesn't matter anyway.

Bolded: What makes you say that?

But I do want Bowser Jr. to be playable, I'm definitely not against his inclusion.

Now I want to discuss gameplay elements, lol. Respond to this if you want, but I'm done. *Searches youtube vids*

 

[Arcadenik]

Lets do a process of elimination to see who are the best choices to market the Marioverse games to the customers and, at the same time, make the fans happy.

The majority of Marioverse games are spin-off games (Kart, Tennis, Golf, Party, etc.) because they sell. Lets start with the playable characters in those games.

Bumper
Cranky Kong
Baby Daisy
Baby Donkey Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Baby Peach
Birdo
Blooper
Boo
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Daisy
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dr. Mario
Drumstick
Dry Bones
Dry Bowser
Fly Guy
Funky Kong
Goomba
Hammer Bro.
Kalypso
Kass
King Boo
King K. Rool
Kip
Kludge
Klump
Koopa Kid
Koopa Paratroopa
Koopa Troopa
Kopter
Kritter
Krunch
Lanky Kong
Luigi
Magikoopa
Mario
Metal Mario
Monty Mole
Noki
Paragoomba
Peach
Petey Piranha
Pianta
Pipsy
Rosalina
Shy Guy
Taj the Genie
Timber
Tiny Kong
Tiptup
Toad
Toadette
Toadsworth
T.T.
Waluigi
Wanda
Wario
Wiggler
Wizpig
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

We have many characters who appeared exclusively in spin-off games. Lets make another list with characters who have appeared in canon games (platformers and RPGs).

Cranky Kong
Baby Donkey Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Baby Peach
Birdo
Blooper
Boo
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Daisy
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dry Bones
Dry Bowser
Fly Guy
Funky Kong
Goomba
Hammer Bro.
King Boo
King K. Rool
Klump
Koopa Paratroopa
Koopa Troopa
Kopter
Kritter
Lanky Kong
Luigi
Magikoopa
Mario
Metal Mario
Monty Mole
Noki
Paragoomba
Peach
Petey Piranha
Pianta
Rosalina
Shy Guy
Tiny Kong
Toad
Toadsworth
Wario
Wiggler
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

There are still many generic species on the list. So lets remove all the generic species who were never playable in canon games and see who are left.

Cranky Kong
Baby Donkey Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Baby Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Daisy
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dry Bowser
Funky Kong
King Boo
King K. Rool
Lanky Kong
Luigi
Mario
Metal Mario
Peach
Petey Piranha
Rosalina
Tiny Kong
Toad
Toadsworth
Wario
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

There are some characters who have been in one or two canon games. Lets make another list with recurring characters who have been in three or more canon games.

Cranky Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Funky Kong
King Boo
King K. Rool
Luigi
Mario
Peach
Petey Piranha
Toad
Toadsworth
Wario
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

Finally, we make a list with recurring playable heroes and recurring unplayable villains in canon games.

Baby Mario
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
King Boo
King K. Rool
Luigi
Mario
Peach
Petey Piranha
Toad
Wario
Yoshi

The majority of the Marioverse games are spin-off games. It is best to have the original Mario Big Eight because they market games to the customers and make fans happy. The major recurring characters from the Donkey Kong Country trilogy are in spin-off games because they market the games and make the fans happy. It is best to have these familar characters who can really resonate with customers and fans.

Mario Series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Toad
Bowser

Donkey Kong Series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool

Yoshi Series
Yoshi

Wario Series
Wario

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm not saying Geno defined SMRPG, but he definitely left his mark on the game. He didn't have to be the main character for people to like him or want him for Smash Bros.

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that if SMRPG needs to be represented within Smash, then there is already a fair number of playable characters from it, and thus little reason to add in Geno.

Another thing, I've noticed in many of your post concerning Geno how you tend to think that the Mario, Peach, and Bowser is Smash are the SMRPG counterparts. Exactly what makes you think that? I'm curious.

Counterparts? Mario, Peach, and Bowser represent many games, not just one, as t should be for a series with characters who span multiple games. But as there are not seperate incarnations of characters, such as in LoZ, the Mario, Peach, and Bowser in SMRPG are the same Mario, Peach, and Bowser that are in every Mario game, as well as Smash Bros.

I'm going to ignore the term 'represent' from here on out. People can't seem the shake their political beliefs.

The word "represent" isn't a political saying in this discussion, its the word that best describes this issue we are talking about. Suggest to me a word that actually works better than it if you want people to stop usiing it.

But anyway, why does this matter as far as Smash Bros. is concerned? The truth is, you don't have to be a main character to get into Smash Bros. You don't have to be in multiple games or spin-offs to get into Smash Bros. Your game don't have to sell well to get into Smash Bros. What matters most is what I mentioned in my previous post.

No you don't need to be a main character, but all of the supporting characters who have made it in have had multiple important roles in multiple games, and are also not third party. The problem with Geno arguments is that they tackle every problem he has one at a time, and don't consider that he suffers from all these problems at the same time. There are no secondary characters in Smash who have only shown up in one third party game, so it really is a problem that Geno has to, and most likely won't, overcome.

 

[Volkner582]

I'll shoot someone if i see more Sonic characters in Brawl. What part of Nintendo ALL STARS do you not understand? Sonic and Snake can stay, Megaman should be added. but if i see revolver ocelot, grey fox, shadow, tails, zero, sigma and other characters in Smash i'll go insane.

There are ATs for a reason.

Also, i fear that the Black Knight's and Dark Samus's time are done, both are dead(at least DS) and their games are done. So i don't think there would be a reason to include them in the next game.

I don't see what's wrong with Tails.

BTW, Ganondorf is also technically dead.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ganondorf is not technically dead. He will always die and live again, die and live again, and so on, as long as the Zelda games keep coming out. And even if he's really dead, there will be another Ganondorf anyway. We got many Links and Zeldas, why not?

 

[UberMario]

You know what would be an interesting twist?

If they get rid of the Assist Trophy, and make the "AT Characters" have a 10% chance of coming out of a smashed crate like in Melee. (I liked that aspect, but the likelihood of that happening in SSBM was WAY too low)

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

*breaks open crate*

*Samurai Goroh pops out and starts balastically swining his sword at me*

*Hyper_Ridley faints*

 

[Spydr Enzo]

You know what would be an interesting twist?

If they get rid of the Assist Trophy, and make the "AT Characters" have a 10% chance of coming out of a smashed crate like in Melee. (I liked that aspect, but the likelihood of that happening in SSBM was WAY too low)

This would be a neat idea, maybe with Adventure mode enemies like Melee instead though. But I think the likelihood should stay the same as it was in Melee. It may have been extremely low, but the surprise effect was good every time, and seeing ReDeads, Octoroks, Goombas, and Koopas pop out of the boxes was interesting every time, if it happened to much it would just be another one of those things that... just happened.

Also, tot hose saying that Dark Samus can't get in because she's dead, that really isn't a good reason. Canon qualities such as these don't really apply in the world of Smash. Ness and Lucas live, like, 70 years apart or something. So do Ike and Marth. Nevertheless, though, Dark Samus doesn't seem like much of a possibility anyway.

 

[UberMario]

This would be a neat idea, maybe with Adventure mode enemies like Melee instead though. But I think the likelihood should stay the same as it was in Melee. It may have been extremely low, but the surprise effect was good every time, and seeing ReDeads, Octoroks, Goombas, and Koopas pop out of the boxes was interesting every time, if it happened to much it would just be another one of those things that... just happened.

I know, but the reason I said it was "too low" was because in Melee, if one pops out,
you only notice it as it's getting ko'd because of their ridiculously low hp.

 

[Volkner582]

Like Chris Lionheart said -- the fourth generation just wasn't that good.

I don't think that Mewtwo and Mew should get in (only Mewtwo), but Lucario was a bad addition. He replaced a much better, more respected, and in-general cooler Pokemon.

Since when did Lucario replace Mewtwo? I am sick of the people that say Lucario replaced Mewtwo just because Lucario's programming was completed but Mewtwo's wasn't (because of time constraints). Anyway, Lucario is possibly the coolest character the Pokemon series has had (Mewtwo is more badass than cool)!

I really hope Mewtwo appears in the next Smash Bros, but I don't want to see Lucario cut from the roster.

 

[Starphoenix]

Also, tot hose saying that Dark Samus can't get in because she's dead, that really isn't a good reason. Canon qualities such as these don't really apply in the world of Smash. Ness and Lucas live, like, 70 years apart or something. So do Ike and Marth. Nevertheless, though, Dark Samus doesn't seem like much of a possibility anyway.

Why? She's more likely than Ridley at this point.

Since when did Lucario replace Mewtwo? I am sick of the people that say Lucario replaced Mewtwo just because Lucario's programming was completed but Mewtwo's wasn't (because of time constraints). Anyway, Lucario is possibly the coolest character the Pokemon series has had (Mewtwo is more badass than cool)!

I really hope Mewtwo appears in the next Smash Bros, but I don't want to see Lucario cut from the roster.

Nobody really knows why he was cut, all we have is unproven speculation. I think we all know that when Sakurai does his journal/Q&A around the time of SSB4, somebody will ask about Mewtwo.

 

[Pieman0920]

If anyone actually replaced Mewtwo, it was the Pokemon trainer. Lucario, as well as a Pokemon that represented the 4th gen was inevitable, while a new character representing the first generation wasn't. Lucario may seem similar to Mewtwo, and Jigs may have been the one who beat out Mewtwo for that 4 slot, but PT was the one who did the actual replacing.

Why? She's more likely than Ridley.

...what?

Ridley may have a (non) issue with his size, but how is he less likely than Dark Samus? DS is indeed a individual from Samus, and has her own moves that coud be used, but she has been in less games than Ridley, and still is essentially another Samus character, of which we have two already. Given that she has officially died, with little chance of being resurected like Ridley often does, she seems to have little future.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'd wager that Dark Samus is more likely than Ridley... but that's only because Dark Samus has a similar body structure like Samus and would most likely end up as a clone no matter how many movesets fans come up to try to make her different from Samus.

 

[Starphoenix]

...what?

Ridley may have a (non) issue with his size, but how is he less likely than Dark Samus? DS is indeed a individual from Samus, and has her own moves that coud be used, but she has been in less games than Ridley, and still is essentially another Samus character, of which we have two already. Given that she has officially died, with little chance of being resurected like Ridley often does, she seems to have little future.

Still, she fairs much better to be included than Ridley. I know Dark Samus has very little chances for a future and that is my point. More than likely Zero Suit Samus will remain the only other Metroid character in Smash. Say what you will but Sakurai counts her as a second rep and there is very little to change that. Unless Metroid: Other M manages to create a character that is pivotal to the game and not some useless NPC (*coughRundasSyluxcough*).

Sakurai has stated before that he thinks Ridley would be too awkward to be playable, and judging by the way he was in Subspace Emmisary I would agree. Given the fact that Sakurai doesn't mind using templates of other characters to make "clones", Dark Samus would most likely be the route he goes. Even though very little of her actual combat style in the Prime series is similar to Samus. Look how that turned out for Toon Link though...

If he is so important, why would it take him 4 games just to be playable? Obviously Sakurai doesn't think he is, and that is the problem.

 

[Arcadenik]

I seem to remember Sakurai saying something about Assist Trophies... something about characters that aren't meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into Smash. Wasn't Ridley planned to be an Assist Trophy at one point just like how the seven characters were planned to be playable at one point? Maybe the size was an issue... didn't Sakurai say it felt wrong to put characters with different head to body ratios side-by-side?

 

[Volkner582]

Why were Snake and Sonic in? Because they're iconic to the entire world of video games. Not some whiny brat like Sora, who hardly anybody knows about, or some possessed doll who appeared in one game and cameoed in another game (protip: NO GENO). Does it makes sense to have Knuckles and Tails in? NO! When you think of the Sonic series, you think of Sonic.

Tails is pretty **** iconic, and Geno would be perfect in Smash Bros!

 

[Starphoenix]

I seem to remember Sakurai saying something about Assist Trophies... something about characters that aren't meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into Smash. Wasn't Ridley planned to be an Assist Trophy at one point just like how the seven characters were planned to be playable at one point? Maybe the size was an issue... didn't Sakurai say it felt wrong to put characters with different head to body ratios side-by-side?

Taken from the DOJO:

Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters. You may even see some that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you’ll have to look forward to them.

To my knowledge Ridley as an AT was never actually confirmed. As stated before, all Sakurai has said on Ridley is his lack of confidence in him being playable due to his awkward size. Obviously he was not able to overcome that hence him only being a boss and neither playable or an AT at that.

 

[Pieman0920]

When Sakurai made that comment, he still said it was possible, and with fan demand, combined with his role within the Metroid series, I'd say Ridley is much more likely than DS.

For one, that's not all the conditions for ATs. Surely Isaac, Goroh, Saki, Little Mac and other ATs are meant for fighting, though they just fell short. (As Fatman said, its also possible they are the characters fans requested in the poll, since Sakurai had already made up his mind about the cast before that.) Ridley's size is a complete and utter non-issue as far as being a AT is concerned...heck, look at Andross...or Groudon. Perhaps Ridley was at first supposed to be a AT, but later got turned into two bosses due to popularity.

 

[Volkner582]

Can't you tell what he said is actually true? He is a possessed doll, a doll that has been possessed by a star. Boing!

Enough of assumptions and accusations in regards to what others type (this goes for everyone). Read what they wrote. Reread it if necessary, then reply to precisely what they said. Don't assume that they have never played a game because you misread their words. Fool.

No, he is a star posessing a doll. Geno is a star, the doll is just a physical manifestation.

 

[Volkner582]

Of course you missed the entire point of my post. Geno isn't an icon of the gaming universe, now is he?

I thought not. When you think RPGs you think something like 'ZOMG FINAL FANTASY' not 'ZOMG GENO'.

I think something like "ZOMG POKEMON/MOTHER"