[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Clownbot]

Yoshi lost his individuality in recent years, too. The Yoshi is not even playable in any Yoshi's Island games either. The Yoshi was born at the end of Yoshi's Island DS. The Yoshi isn't even in Super Mario Galaxy 2 nor New Super Mario Bros. Wii. And yet the Yoshi uses moves all the other generic Yoshis use in Smash games. So, even if the Toad lost his individuality in recent years and and isn't playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, he can still use moves all the generic Toads use in SSB4.

Also, don't use the "he doesn't do much in the fighting department" argument again. That argument has been 100% debunked with the addition of R.O.B., a peripheral that never fought at all. Sakurai added R.O.B. because he saw the potential in making R.O.B. an unique fighter.

Also, why add Bowser Jr. if he's more likely going to end up as a clone of Bowser anyway? Toad has the potential to have an original moveset with possibly only one special move being a clone of Peach's Vegetable move. Sakurai just has to look into Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and the Mario Kart series for moveset ideas.

Bowser Jr. =/= Bowser. I could imagine Sakurai turning Bowser Jr. into a lighter, faster version of Bowser, but there's just no basis for it. He has just as much potential as Toad to be completely original (if not more).

Just because Sakurai referenced Lip a lot more than Takamaru does not always mean she's going to be playable. There is a small chance she might be playable, though. The fact she and Takamaru are both Japan-only lower their chances. The fact that Nintendo does not put Lip in her own franchise outside of Japan further lower her chances. Takamaru has the potential to revive his franchise but Lip does not because her franchise never died. Also, I'm not adding her just because she's a female character.

So, Takamaru should get in first because his series is deader than Lip's? Makes sense to me...

It won't happen? Okay, "Sakurai". I am curious why people remain unconvinced by my arguments supporting the Duck Hunt Dog.

Oh, it's not much, it's just that he's an insignificant one-time character who has absolutely no basis for a chance at a playable spot, but hey, that's it. >_>

Maybe he will be playable, maybe he won't... I just have my doubts seeing how big he is once again in Metroid: Other M.

:burst:

Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment are kinda obscure compared to the Wii series and the Wars series. I mean, the Wii series starring Mii's is one of Nintendo's best-selling franchise (beating even Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon all combined) and the Wars series is one of Nintendo's long-running franchises with about 10 games out.

Golden Sun is a critically acclaimed GBA game/series. S&P has growing popularity in America (and possibly Japan, as well) with S&P2 coming out.

What i dont understand is why they cut mewtwo and put in lucario, but they add wolf. And why did they cut roy and add ike? Cant they just keep mewtwo and roy and add on lucario and ike? Also why did they take out the red shell, but they put the bumper back in? One thing i did like about brawl though is that they made "clones" more different from each other.

They probably didn't want to over-represent Pokemon, and Roy's time in the FE series has past (he may have been cut due to fear of series over-representation as well).

 

[Pieman0920]

Yoshi lost his individuality in recent years, too. The Yoshi is not even playable in any Yoshi's Island games either. The Yoshi was born at the end of Yoshi's Island DS. The Yoshi isn't even in Super Mario Galaxy 2 nor New Super Mario Bros. Wii. And yet the Yoshi uses moves all the other generic Yoshis use in Smash games. So, even if the Toad lost his individuality in recent years and and isn't playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, he can still use moves all the generic Toads use in SSB4.

The Yoshi is Smash probably isn't "the" Yoshi from the Mario games, but rather "the" Yoshi from the Yoshi's Island games. Remember, there was one green Yoshi who stood out from all others in those games, and given that Baby Mario is part of the Yoshi franchise, I'd say that the Yoshi in Smash is not the one from the present time. Thus, I think its suspect to say that Yoshi has lost his individuality in the same way that Toad has over the years. (Heck, Toad only gained his individuality from SMB2, which only added him to fill up the 4th spot from the Doki Doki Panic games.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Is it true that Sakurai has a hate for Advance Wars? I heard it awhile back. But since FE and AW are technically the same game with a different shade of brownz, 1 FE character and 1 AW character would be a nice combination for a intelligent systems rep. But the only AW character i see playable is the deceased Brenner. He'd be like a Snake clone, but slower. Final Smash would be another Land Master, lul.

And if Sakurai isn't adding any more slots, then say goodbye to Red and Lucario.
Soon to be replaced with delicious 2nd gen girl trainer & 5th gen furry.
(Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligator) If its not second gen, then one of the following;
(Mudkip, Grovile, Blaziken)
(Piplup, Grotle, Infernape)
amirite?

Like n88_2004 said earlier, expect a Golden Sun, Sin and Punishment, or (just adding in) a Custom Robo character before Advanced Wars, but I'm sure an Advanced Wars character is possible. Also, I never heard about a hate for it... I don't think that's true.

And I'm sure Sakurai will add more slots, but if he doesn't, then yes, Lucario will most definitely be replaced with a 5th generation Pokemon. But don't expect the Pokemon Trainer to be replaced with newer Pokemon, but if he does, why would it be second generation? But those are good choices if he does. This is just a neat idea of mine, but I always thought that there should be a Legendary Pokemon Trainer who has the three Pokemon: Celebi, Jirachi, and Uxie/Azelf/Mesprit team (technically five). Celebi and Jirachi each have three specials and switch using the down special, and the Uxie/Azelf/Mesprit team each travel around the stage together and each are assigned to one special move. Which ever of the three is in the lead (whoever's special was most recently used) uses the standard attacks. That's an idea, not very likely, but I thought it would be neat.

 

[Clownbot]

I think 2nd Gen pokemon are being suggested for PT because of the Gold/Silver remakes.

 

[lordvaati]

I always thought the Toad of SMB2 and Wario's woods became the Toadsworth of the current timeline.

 

[Clownbot]

Timeline?

There's not really any timeline with the Mario series. I mean, the games have an order, but it's not a significant factor like it is with the Legend of Zelda series.

Either way, I don't think you're right on that, lordvaati.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I think 2nd Gen pokemon are being suggested for PT because of the Gold/Silver remakes.

Ah, makes sense I guess. I still don't think a new Pokemon Trainer is very likely, and if there is one it will replace the current one, but I still don't really know about that. I would love if my Legendary Pokemon Trainer idea turned out to be real, there would be my new main.

 

[lordvaati]

if they do make a Jotho-era PT, I see their Pokemon as Chikorita, Quilava and Feraligatr.

 

[Clownbot]

I think it would stay along Brawl's pattern in terms of types; that is:

Totodile
Bayleef
Typhlosion

That's just me, though.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I think it would stay along Brawl's pattern in terms of types; that is:

Totodile
Bayleef
Typhlosion

That's just me, though.

So with every generation, we would end up with this:

GENERATION 2
Totodile
Bayleed
Typhlosion

GENERATION 3
Mudkip
Grovile
Blaziken

GENERATION 4
Piplup
Grotle
Infernape


The third generation appeals to me more, I don't really know why. I can just see those Pokemon fitting better in Smash than other generations, but thats just an opinion. The thing that sucks also, is that the third generation is the least likely out of the three, due to Gold/Silver being revived and Diamond/Pearl being most recent. Although it would never happen, I would love to see all of these guys in the game.

 

[Clownbot]

The thing that sucked about Brawl was that they represented the 4th gen, but they didn't give any 3rd Gen pokemon a chance.

I would have taken Deoxys over Jigglypuff any day.

Spoiler

On a completely spammish unrelated note, I'm now a Smash Apprentice. w00t!

 

[Fatmanonice]

From what I know, Sakurai wanted more characters, but it was a low budget title so they either didn't have the time or resources. I beleive he wanted to add Bowser, Mewtwo and a Fire Emblem character. Peach and Dedede may have been there as well. I'll check the awesome thread at Starmen.net.

EDIT: it was Dedede, Bowser and Mewtwo.
Starman Thread

On a side note, I found this:
http://fryguy64.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ssb&action=display&thread=2418

It has some neat stuff. There could be more to it though.
BTW, if Flip is right, then I'm wrong on Pit. It was his game on the GBA that got him in.

Ooh, you found the Melee post production notes! I didn't know they still existed because I thought they were trashed after the Melee site became the Dojo (at least that's what happened to Sakurai's journal). Well guys, I guess we need to research how well Nazo no Murasame sold on the GBA and see how it comes to Kid Icarus. *suddenly becomes giddy like a school girl* I remember them talking about Takamaru but I didn't remember him saying what he did about Pit. Must... find... sales report...

Add in: Nevermind, false alarm.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Legendary Pokemon Trainer idea

The idea of a wishing Pokemon, Timetraveler, and the Triforce trio as a fighter is broken beyond belief.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Ooh, you found the Melee post production notes! I didn't know they still existed because I thought they were trashed after the Melee site became the Dojo (at least that's what happened to Sakurai's journal). Well guys, I guess we need to research how well Nazo no Murasame sold on the GBA and see how it comes to Kid Icarus. *suddenly becomes giddy like a school girl* I remember them talking about Takamaru but I didn't remember him saying what he did about Pit. Must... find... sales report...

Add in: Nevermind, false alarm.

Wait, false alarm? I don't understand...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hmm... I think we need some people to help translate the Melee journal. It's particularly interesting because Sakurai comments on every entry and I'll like to hear what he has to say about some people like Megaman. Any volunteers?

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

I would have taken Deoxys over Jigglypuff any day.

I noe rite?
It should be
1. Pika
2. Mewtwo
3. Deoxys
4. Lucario
5. -Extra slot for trainer-

But noooooooo.
Deoxys would have been full of **** too.
When running or dodging, he'd be in Speed forme, almost as fast as Sawnik and the dodging would be as long range as Lucario's but more instant. rite?
When charging a smash attack, he'd be in attack forme.
THATS NOT ALL FOLKS! This f*cker has a defense mode.
Works like Kirby's rock, but this time you can stay in it AS LONG AS YOU WANT- BUT unlike Kirby's rock, you'll still take damage. Just only 35% of the blow (including knockback). Its a strategy similar to DDD's f-smash Vs Rocket hammer. GET ETTT?

With DDD, you have the risk of recoil damage with rocket hammer, BUT you're free to roam & jump around (unlike f-smash).
Deoxys, you can sheld & break it... OR, take partial damage from unpredictable moments such as long final smashes, stage hazards, Ike's eruption etc.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Hmm... I think we need some people to help translate the Melee journal. It's particularly interesting because Sakurai comments on every entry and I'll like to hear what he has to say about some people like Megaman. Any volunteers?

I certainly can't do it, but in your previous post you said "false alarm" about the game sales thing. Just wondering, why is it a false alarm?

And by the way, the SSB4 Discussion group is safe of F-Zero debates (except occasionally brought up by Warlord). We're discussing a new concept, go check it out.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I certainly can't do it, but in your previous post you said "false alarm" about the game sales thing. Just wondering, why is it a false alarm?

And by the way, the SSB4 Discussion group is safe of F-Zero debates (except occasionally brought up by Warlord). We're discussing a new concept, go check it out.

I thought it was characters rejected for the first Smash Bros but I was wrong, it was simply a list of the characters who recieved the most votes in the Melee poll.

Add in: I'm almost done with the first page and, I have to say, it's pretty boring so far. The only thing of interest that's been said so far is that Captain Falcon is Sakurai's favorite character. (Then why is he so terrible in Brawl?) Basically, the first page is people bragging about their high scores and what characters they like to play as.

Add in: Somebody complains about Ness being overpowered and Link having a crappy recovery. This made me laugh out loud considering what was done in Melee with both characters.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I thought it was characters rejected for the first Smash Bros but I was wrong, it was simply a list of the characters who recieved the most votes in the Melee poll.

Add in: I'm almost done with the first page and, I have to say, it's pretty boring so far. The only thing of interest that's been said so far is that Captain Falcon is Sakurai's favorite character. (Then why is he so terrible in Brawl?) Basically, the first page is people bragging about their high scores and what characters they like to play as.

Add in: Somebody complains about Ness being overpowered and Link having a crappy recovery. This made me laugh out loud considering what was done in Melee with both characters.

What are you using to translate the page? I was using a translator from google but it sucks and the English is literal, you can't tell what they're saying at all.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What are you using to translate the page? I was using a translator from google but it sucks and the English is literal, you can't tell what they're saying at all.

Babelfish but I've also taken a little bit of Japanese so I know how to piece things together if the translation is too goofy like you said.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Babelfish but I've also taken a little bit of Japanese so I know how to piece things together if the translation is too goofy like you said.

Ah, dang, I need to learn some Japanese... Oh well, I hope you find something interesting in that big maze of symbols and signs...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ah, dang, I need to learn some Japanese... Oh well, I hope you find something interesting in that big maze of symbols and signs...

So far nothing interesting. The first page is basically compliments to the staff and, so far, the third page is talking about families who play Smash Bros. One of the comments even says that his three year old son played Smash Bros? (Holy Crap, really?)

息子には勝てない！父親の威厳がぁ～！！！ないか、もともと…。

This guy complains that he can't beat his son in Smash Bros. Funny stuff but, still, nothing too noteworthy.

Add in:

スマブラは４歳の息子と毎日やっています。

このソフトのおもしろさは、初心者でも勝てることだと思います。
他のソフトでは息子に負けることはありませんが、
スマブラでは負けることがしばしば。

そんなこともあって、
我が家の一番のお気に入りソフトとなっていいます。

ちなみに、「ネス」を出すのには非常に苦労しましたが、
息子は「ネス」が気に入ったようで、
「ネス」のポーズの物まねをしては家庭に笑いをもたらしてくれます。

This one talks about a guy's four year old son constantly imitating Ness's "Okay" taunt. That's too cute.

 

[sundayseclipse]

Ah, dang, I need to learn some Japanese... Oh well, I hope you find something interesting in that big maze of symbols and signs...

...copy paste langage filter


any way

dish out some good AT that we've havent brought up before

 

[Spydr Enzo]

So far nothing interesting. The first page is basically compliments to the staff and, so far, the third page is talking about families who play Smash Bros. One of the comments even says that his three year old son played Smash Bros? (Holy Crap, really?)

息子には勝てない！父親の威厳がぁ～！！！ないか、もともと…。

This guy complains that he can't beat his son in Smash Bros. Funny stuff but, still, nothing too noteworthy.

I was able to get the family stuff out of it, but barely. I started reading all this stuff about three year-olds and families and I began to wonder if I was in the right area. The polls don't really seem that interesting, but there has to be something in there that somebody overlooked, I'm sure we'll find something interesting.

Add in:

スマブラは４歳の息子と毎日やっています。

このソフトのおもしろさは、初心者でも勝てることだと思います。
他のソフトでは息子に負けることはありませんが、
スマブラでは負けることがしばしば。

そんなこともあって、
我が家の一番のお気に入りソフトとなっていいます。

ちなみに、「ネス」を出すのには非常に苦労しましたが、
息子は「ネス」が気に入ったようで、
「ネス」のポーズの物まねをしては家庭に笑いをもたらしてくれます。

This one talks about a guy's four year old son constantly imitating Ness's "Okay" taunt. That's too cute.

Oooooh, so thats what that part is talking about! I didn't get that either, but I'm starting to notice some patterns and trends that might make this easier to understand.

...copy paste langage filter


any way

dish out some good AT that we've havent brought up before

I'm using a site translator, which works a whole lot better. The problem with it is the English is hard to understand since it literally translates everything.

And are you asking for Assist Trophy ideas? I don't understand that last statement.

 

[Fatmanonice]

▲　　　　　 ▲　
　　＼＼＿＿＿／／　
　 /　　　　 ＼　
▲　｜　●　・●｜　
　＼｜＠　ｗ　＠　
　／▼⊃　　　　⊃　
　＼▼　　　　　｜　
　　▼＿⊃＿＿＿⊃

Okay, this is probably the coolest thing I've seen all day. Also, I'm definately going to need help with this... It took me nearly an hour to read two pages and there are probably close to 100 pages altogether.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

▲　　　　　 ▲　
　　＼＼＿＿＿／／　
　 /　　　　 ＼　
▲　｜　●　・●｜　
　＼｜＠　ｗ　＠　
　／▼⊃　　　　⊃　
　＼▼　　　　　｜　
　　▼＿⊃＿＿＿⊃

Okay, this is probably the coolest thing I've seen all day. Also, I'm definately going to need help with this... It took me nearly an hour to read two pages and there are probably close to 100 pages altogether.

Neat!

And actually, there are closer to 200 pages altogether... this could take a while. And I just wanted to mention that I skipped ahead a bit just for fun, and Pudding seems to be a popular subject for some reason...

And from reading a little bit, I was able to gather that Sakurai enjoyed the game Metroid, at least around the time he made that comment, he got mad at someone for suggesting multiple Third Party characters like Bomberman, and the word FARUKONPANCHI seems to appear a lot. I wonder what that word could possibly mean???

Oh well, I'll skip around some more tomorrow, I'm getting to bed now...

 

[justaway12]

I'm not sure if they would do it, but the only Japanese people (or people who know the language) I've seen around the site are Kel and Lovely, they might not do it, but it couldn't hurt to ask. Right?


Or maybe you cn go to the Japan thread in Regional Zones?

Oh and that Pikachu is aborable <3

 

[UberMario]

Spoiler

222

▲　　　　　 ▲　
　　＼＼＿＿＿／／　

Spoiler

2

　 ｜　　　

Spoiler

22

｜
▲　｜　●　・●

Spoiler

22

/
　＼｜＠　ｗ　＠　
　／▼⊃　　　　⊃　
　＼▼　　　　　｜　
　　▼＿⊃＿＿＿⊃

That's nice ASC.

EDIT:Here, I fixed the ears.

 

[Wizzerd]

And by the way, the SSB4 Discussion group is safe of F-Zero debates (except occasionally brought up by Warlord).

Umm... you're the one who brought up the debate in the first place, and me and Warlord were just trying to end it on neutral terms. Go into politics, really.

In a less spammy note, translating Sakurai's notes sounds like a great idea.

 

[Pieman0920]

Its a shame really that there is so little released in regards to Brawl. A good chunk of this newer stuff is somewhat irreivant in regards to characters who made it big or were created from the GC/GBA generation onwards.

Oh, and given that Captain Rainbow didn't sell well (and isn't coming internationally) I think that Takamaru's/Lip's/whatever's chances are pretty bad, seeing as at least in the case of Takamaru, his inclusion was based somewhat on sales. (Wait, doesn't that whole thing contradict some of the babbling that Sakurai's interests take priority to popularity?)

 

[Wizzerd]

I like Lip very much, but I don't think she has a great chance either. The only retro character with a good chance really is Little Mac, and after the new Punch-Out he isn't all that retro anymore.

 

[Heartz♥]

I still believe in Lip. No Eye or Ear will hinder my beliefs.

 

[Starphoenix]

From what I know, Sakurai wanted more characters, but it was a low budget title so they either didn't have the time or resources. I beleive he wanted to add Bowser, Mewtwo and a Fire Emblem character. Peach and Dedede may have been there as well. I'll check the awesome thread at Starmen.net.

EDIT: it was Dedede, Bowser and Mewtwo.
Starman Thread

On a side note, I found this:
http://fryguy64.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ssb&action=display&thread=2418

It has some neat stuff. There could be more to it though.
BTW, if Flip is right, then I'm wrong on Pit. It was his game on the GBA that got him in.

Oh, if only Mewtwo had been in Smash64 instead of Jigglypuff...

I still believe in Lip. No Eye or Ear will hinder my beliefs.

I still do not understand the appeal of Lip, but I guess she has as good of a chance as any of the many "retro" suggestions out there.

Also, one point I would like to make. I do not think Little Mac can be considered a "retro" character any longer, seeing as Punch Out Wii was released and all.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Umm... you're the one who brought up the debate in the first place, and me and Warlord were just trying to end it on neutral terms. Go into politics, really.

In a less spammy note, translating Sakurai's notes sounds like a great idea.

You guys just don't give up, do you?

Oh, and I don't think Lip has great chances. We'd probably only get two new retro series characters in SSB4 like we usually do, and one of them will most likely be Little Mac (If he's still even considered retro), the other candidates being anyone. We could be surprised and get Lip, but usually the second retro character is a surprise anyway (Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B.).

 

[Heartz♥]

I still do not understand the appeal of Lip.

She is pretty and has many flowers.

 

[UberMario]

What do you guys think of Pulseman's chance at being in the next roster?
(After all he was made by the people that gave us Pokemon AND Volt Tackle in Brawl is a reference to this series)

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

What do you guys think of Pulseman's chance at being in the next roster?
(After all he was made by the people that gave us Pokemon AND Volt Tackle in Brawl is a reference to this series)

and thus... shiny Rotom

 

[Big-Cat]

I still do not understand the appeal of Lip, but I guess she has as good of a chance as any of the many "retro" suggestions out there.

Also, one point I would like to make. I do not think Little Mac can be considered a "retro" character any longer, seeing as Punch Out Wii was released and all.

If we were to look at Smash as a catalogue (not a Congress like some people think), Lip would be the best choice of showing off Nintendo's puzzle games, more so than Dr. Mario. Also, think of how much attention she's gotten despite not being playable.

1. One of Kirby's block forms is a garbage block from Panel de Pon.
2. The Lip's Stick item.
3. She managed to get her theme song in Brawl and was referred to as such.

Her inclusion could also be looked at in other ways:
1. A new Japan-exclusive character. The only new one in Brawl was Lucas.
2. A new female character, something a number of people have wanted.
3. Is likely to have her own moveset.
4. Showing off the Panel de Pon series ala Fire Emblem.

 

[Wizzerd]

2. A new female character, something a number of people have wanted.

How does being female make you a better candidate?

 

[professor mgw]

Sly cooper, gecko, busby, lets get some old players in ppl.