[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Wizzerd]

Fine, but explain to me why an obscure boss from one game stands any chance at all.

 

[Tacel]

I'm not saying that he has a chance. I just think he's be a cool character.
Just an idea for discussion.

 

[Wizzerd]

He could be an AT, maybe...

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Umm, yes it is. The representation admittedly isn't perfect, with for example Mother and Donkey Kong having the same amount of reps, but the fact that it is balanced at all proves that it is. Take series like Mother and Fire Emblem who have popular characters in abundance yet ended up with two reps because that's all they needed, and take a series like Zelda which has four by resorting to an alt form of Link to meet the quota of four. Mewtwo only really has a chance if there is no fifth generation (which would be the absolute preferable situation, as every candidate could get in).

Adding to this, Sakurai doesn't just consider playable characters as a series' representation, he considers all the content in the game (or tries to). Mario always has more stages than anyone else, Pokemon has the most cameos in Pokeballs and stage appearances. Of course even then it's still off balance with stuff like Donkey Kong compared to Zelda or F-Zero compared to Star Fox/Fire Emblem, but it's less defined than people around here seem to think it is. Certainly not something you should be measuring entirely in "slots" or "reps."

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree with KumaOso that SSB is not the Congress but it really does represent Nintendo as a whole. "Congress" is not the right term... maybe more like "catalogue" since SSB is marketing Nintendo products to potential customers through playable characters and stages. Playable characters in Smash represent their respective franchises to customers and who else better than the heroes, the villains, and the mascots? Assist Trophies are more suited for fan favorite characters from major franchises, characters from obscure or dead franchises, and characters that don't have a lot of potential as fighters.

I really think this is a reasonable roster for SSB4. I think the representation is well balanced throughout all the major franchises within Nintendo's history. We have most of the iconic Nintendo characters from almost 30 years ago to the present. There are 44 character slots in total plus the random select acting as the 45th slot.

5 slots for Mario main series
#1 hero - Mario
#2 hero - Luigi
#3 hero - Peach
#4 hero - Toad (he's the only recurring Mario character playable in canonical Mario games not yet playable in Smash)
#1 villain - Bowser

5 slots for Zelda
Triforce of Courage - Link
Triforce of Wisdom - Zelda / Sheik
Triforce of Power - Ganondorf
Hero of young Link games - Toon Link
Hero of Tingle games - Tingle

5 slots for Pokemon
#1 mascot - Pikachu
#1 hero - Pokemon Trainer (either Red or Gold)
Latest movie star - 5th gen Pokemon (Mewtwo and Lucario used to be the Latest Movie Star of the series)
4th Pokemon character - debatable
5th Pokemon character - debatable

4 slots for Donkey Kong
#1 hero - Donkey Kong
#2 hero - Diddy Kong
#3 hero - Dixie Kong
#1 villain - King K. Rool

4 slots for Famicom Disk System
Hero of Nazo no Murasamejou - Takamaru
Hero of Metroid - Samus / Zero Suit Samus
Hero of Kid Icarus - Pit
Hero of Punch-Out!! - Little Mac

3 slots for Kirby
#1 hero - Kirby
#2 hero / villain - Meta Knight
#1 villain - King Dedede

3 slots for Star Fox
#1 hero - Fox
#2 hero - Falco or Krystal (honestly, this franchise does not deserve 4 slots)
#2 villain - Wolf (#1 villain Andross is not fit for SSB)

3 slots for Famicom
Represents regular Famicom games - Ice Climbers
Represents Robot-controlled Famicom games - R.O.B.
Represents Zapper-controlled Famicom games - Hunting Dog

2 slots for Mario spin-off franchises
Hero of Yoshi games - Yoshi
Hero of Wario games - Wario

2 slots for Fire Emblem
Original Hero - Marth
New Hero - Future Lord (Roy and Ike used to be the New Hero of the series)

2 slots for Mother
Original Hero - Ness (technically he does look exactly like the real original hero Ninten)
New Hero - Lucas

1 slot each for other franchises
Mascot of Game & Watch games - Mr. Game & Watch
Hero of Wars games - Commanding Officer
Hero of F-Zero games - Captain Falcon
Hero of Pikmin games - Olimar
Hero of Starfy games - Starfy
Mascot of Wii games - Mii

 

[sundayseclipse]

Just curious, SmashChu, what is your basis for declaring that "most" people hate him? It sounds like a broad generalization about a group of people with no evidence. I find him annoying, but I don't hate him. Most people here don't hate him either, it seems. There is a general negative view, I suppose, but hate?

Also, homophobia should not be a reason why you exclude a character. Incidentally, I think Tingle is creepy, but not "gay." And Luigi is fairly effeminate in Smash.

in this ****ed up society kids use it as stupid looking its innocent fun right hell no its homophobic but i do think smash ment stupid looking

hmm the possible new LOZ characters i think are

vaati
skull kid (possesed by madjorah mask)

tingle (<<< im with stupid T.T)
midna/wolf link (link down b transformarion.) (btw his chance hasnt pass)

revamp

link in general. hes the big 3 and low tier wtf. change FS to deity link. keep Toon Link triforce slash

declone
toon link

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just curious, SmashChu, what is your basis for declaring that "most" people hate him? It sounds like a broad generalization about a group of people with no evidence. I find him annoying, but I don't hate him. Most people here don't hate him either, it seems. There is a general negative view, I suppose, but hate?

Also, homophobia should not be a reason why you exclude a character. Incidentally, I think Tingle is creepy, but not "gay." And Luigi is fairly effeminate in Smash.

It's not homophobia, it's more like resent that such a minor character became one of the biggest stars in the Zelda universe. Also, as his latest game shows, he's definately not gay in fact probably the biggest ladies' man Nintendo has ever had. Still, he's a 38 year old ****** who wears a skin tight leotard and thinks he's a fairy, it's pretty obvious why a lot of people don't like him. Despite this, I feel bad for voting down Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland for a North American release as it appears to be a solid title and has gotten decent reviews.

@ sunday:

Everyone you listed has pretty much been left behind in the Zelda series so being playable doesn't seem likely.

 

[n88]

@Arcadenik

Reasonable, but I would make a few changes:

Mario)
Replace Toad with Bowser Jr. This is debatable, but in recent years, Toad has lost his individuality and doesn't do much in the fighting department. He's been downgraded to a minor character in the series, while Bowser Jr. has become important.

LoZ)
No problems here

Pokemon)
No Problems here

DK)
Combine Diddy and Dixie into one character (Down B transformation)

Retro)
Replace Lip with Takamaru
She's been referenced more in Smash (showing Sakurai's interest).

Don't get your hopes up for the Duck Hunt Dog. It won't happen. I've heard your arguments, but I remain (like everyone else) unconvinced.

Metroid)
Ridley should be in there. He probably won't make it in, but he should.

Kirby)
Fine

StarFox)
Fine

Mario Spin-Offs)
There's a small chance for a second Wario rep, but like I said, it's small.

Fire Emblem)
FE could regain Roy or add a non-sword character. I would bet on a new FE character, as it is gaining popularity and is getting an 11th game shortly, I believe.

Mother)
Fine

Other)
I would add a Golden Sun or Sin & Punishment rep before the Mii or an Advance Wars Rep.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Why is anyone debating whether Jigglypuff would be in the next smash game? She's ludicrously popular in japan, has been in since the first smash game, Is unique, etc. etc.

Jigglypuff would definitely be in the next smash game.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

What does everybody think of this SSB4 playable character roster?

This set of

Spoiler

tags hids a spoiler for this roster:

Spoiler

Krystal isn't in this roster!

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Bowser Jr., and Peach

DK: Donkey Kong, King K. Rool, and Diddy Kong

Zelda: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and one of these two characters: Tingle OR Vaati

Metroid: Samus/Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley

Yoshi: Yoshi

Kirby: Kirby, MetaKnight, and King Dedede

Starfox: Fox, Falco, and Wolf

Pokemon: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer with Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard, Jigglypuff, Lucario, and 5th gen Pokemon

F-Zero: Captain Falcon

Earthbound/Mother: Ness, and Lucas

Fire Emblem: Marth, Ike, and another FE character

Wario: Wario

Retro/Other Nintendo: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, R.O.B., Little Mac, Saki Amemiya, Isaac, Olimar and Animal Crosser

Third-Party: Snake, Sonic, and Megaman

Feel free to make suggestions. I need help deciding the fifth Mario character, the third FE character, and if the new Zelda character is going to be Tingle or Vaati. Also, while I'm okay with comments about Ridley, I would like to ask everybody to please not start another Ridley arguement. I'm not ordering, I'm just asking. Thank you!

 

[n88]

I need help deciding the fifth Mario character

umm.. Try Peach

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Peach's moves are sexist, which is why I didn't add her.

 

[n88]

Peach's moves aren't sexist. They would be sexist if every female, reardless of personality, had them. As it is, these moves fit Peach's personality/playstyle. And even then, the only moves you can apply this to are U-Tilt and B-Side. This is a really flimsy argument to exclude one of the Mario series' main characters.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I added Peach to the roster after I saw that reply of yours.

 

[n88]

:bigthumbu

 

[Spydr Enzo]

This set of

Spoiler

tags hids a spoiler for this roster:

Spoiler

Krystal isn't in this roster!

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Bowser Jr., and a fifth Mario character

DK: Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong

Zelda: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and one of these two characters: Tingle OR Vaati

Metroid: Samus/Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley

Yoshi: Yoshi

Kirby: Kirby, MetaKnight, and King Dedede

Starfox: Fox, Falco, and Wolf

Pokemon: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer with Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard, Jigglypuff, Lucario, and 5th gen Pokemon

F-Zero: Captain Falcon

Earthbound/Mother: Ness, and Lucas

Fire Emblem: Marth, Ike, and another FE character

Wario: Wario

Retro/Other Nintendo: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, R.O.B., Little Mac, Saki Amemiya, Isaac, and Animal Crosser

Third-Party: Snake, Sonic, and Megaman

Feel free to make suggestions. I need help deciding the fifth Mario character, the third FE character, and if the new Zelda character is going to be Tingle or Vaati. Also, while I'm okay with comments about Ridley, I would like to ask everybody to please not start another Ridley arguement. I'm not ordering, I'm just asking. Thank you!

Spoiler

-Ummm, Mario is good but... why isn't Peach on your list?
-Donkey Kong deserves one more character, and it would be either Dixie Kong or King K. Rool (I'd go with Dixie Kong who seems more likely, but K. Rool is the more popular choice. Its up to you).
-As much as I would LOVE to see Vaati, Tingle obviously has much greater chances, so go with him.
-Metroid is perfect in my opinion.
-Yoshi is perfect.
-Kirby is also perfect.
-I don't know what to say about Star Fox. I can see a new character getting in, but I don't know how likely it is... I guess its fine for right now.
-Pokemon is PERFECT! One of the best sets I've seen from this thread (THANK YOU for not putting in Mewtwo!).
-F-Zero is also perfect in my opinion.
-EarthBound (MOTHER) = perfecto.
-Fire Emblem is another A+.
-Little Mac, Saki, and Isaac are great but... Animal Crosser? This just completely downrated this roster.
-Third-Party is perfect.

Just recapping on some things. You left out Peach for some reason, it must have been an accident, but put her in and its fine. About Legend of Zelda, OBVIOUSLY anyone would want Vaati over Tingle, but keep Tingle because the fact is he is more likely than anyone else in the series so far. And you don't need to specify a new FE character, because its difficult to say and we could get a new Fire Emblem Lord in the next game that would make a good candidate. Finally, take out the Animal Crosser, that will NEVER happen.

If I was to give this a rating (and I will) based on likeliness, I'd give it an 8/10. It would be a 9, but the Animal Crosser just completely downrates the roster.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Animal Crossing is awesome! I would love to see the Animal Crosser (male version is more likely) playable in Smash 4, so I'm not taking Animal Crosser off my roster.

 

[Clownbot]

Peach's moves are sexist, which is why I didn't add her.

I know you already edited her into the roster, but I lol'd so hard at this post.

DK needs another rep, Dixie or K. Rool.

Tingle is probably more likely than Vaati.

Animal Crosser = win (dangit Spydr ), but he won't get in if Sakurai has something to say about the game. Also, since Saki and Isaac aren't the main characters of the latest games in their series, I'm a bit iffy on them.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

If lots of people want a third DK fighter in SSB4 so bad, then I added K. Rool to my roster, rounding it to about 49 characters total, counting transformations and PT Pokemon, but not the Trainer himself. I won't add more than 50 characters to my roster.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Animal Crosser = win (dangit Spydr ), but he won't get in if Sakurai has something to say about the game. Also, since Saki and Isaac aren't the main characters of the latest games in their series, I'm a bit iffy on them.

Sorry, I LOVE the game Animal Crossing (my favorite after Smash Bros. of course). But Jumpman, I don't think bias is a good reason to include a character on a roster when they really have no chance. I'll post this quote from Iwata asks:

The most important thing was simply whether or not it would make players happy. I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title. Heading the list of these characters are the ones from the games we just mentioned, Nintendogs and Animal Crossing. Because these are games played by lots of people, I knew players would be happy to see them make an appearance. This is why I wanted to find a way to put them in the game and why they became Assist Trophies.

I quoted this straight form Iwata asks, this is Sakurai talking about Assist Trophies. He talsk about Animal Crossing and Nintendogs and their popularity and how he feels they should be incorporated into Smash somehow, but he also says they just aren't ment for fighting. I'm sorry, Animal Crosser isn't a great choice, I'm very confident it won't happen.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why is anyone debating whether Jigglypuff would be in the next smash game? She's ludicrously popular in japan, has been in since the first smash game, Is unique, etc. etc.

Jigglypuff would definitely be in the next smash game.

Okay... seriously... people need to stop saying this. Jigglypuff USED to be really popular like before the second generation came out. Jigglypuff is hardly used in marketing anymore has pretty much been replaced by pokemon like Munchlax, Plusle, Minun, Mime Jr., etc.

Also, I'm sick of the "oh they're popular in Japan excuse" because I know for a fact that a vast majority of you have never even been on a japanese forum and even less on forums that focus on Smash Bros. I used to when I was going crazy waiting for Brawl but I haven't been back probably since January 2008 so I don't know what the concensus is now. Honest to God, stop using this excuse for unpopular/ little known characters because its getting old. "Oh, Daisy's popular in Japan." "Oh, Birdo's popular in Japan." "Oh, Leon's popular in Japan." "Oh, Slippy's popular in Japan." Seriously, shut up unless you can prove that they are... /rant

 

[n88]

That point of view is popular in Japan.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That point of view is popular in Japan.

*throws a piano at n88_2004*

 

[Clownbot]

Exactly why Jigglypuff should be cut.

 

[n88]

*throws a piano at n88_2004*

Sorry, couldn't resist.

It seems that everyone says Jiggly is popular in Japan, so I assumed they were right. I think it's probably safe to say she's more popular there than here (that's not saying much). Otherwise, how did she get in?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

It seems that everyone says Jiggly is popular in Japan, so I assumed they were right. I think it's probably safe to say she's more popular there than here (that's not saying much). Otherwise, how did she get in?

She is popular in Japan, but not as popular as she once was, like Fatmanonice said, before the second generation. I'm pretty sure Jigglypuff will stay like she did in the last two games not because of "popularity" or anything, but because of nostalgic worth, etc. And, believe it or not, there would be some angry fans if she was cut.

And also like Fatmanonice said, stop using Japan's popularity as something to backup a character. Unless you have a source, don't say anything about the Japanese fanbase.

*Hopes MasterWarlord reads this post*

 

[Wizzerd]

Commentary on Mario the Jumpman's roster:

• Tingle is definitely more likely than Vaati. Vaati is a forgotten and obscure antagonist whose three games are some of the worst-selling in the series, whereas Tingle is an exceedingly popular (in Japan) and significant (with two games and a third coming out). Yes, certain people dislike him, but as long as a character has people who like them those who don't shouldn't matter (would anybody even mind Tingle if they never have to use him?), plus he can make an excellent punching bag for those who dislike him.
• The most likely new FE character is... new FE lord! A lord from a new Fire Emblem brought up before SSB4. Now with 100% less reasons against their inclusion because he/she doesn't even exist yet.
• Why is there no F-Zero newcomer? F-Zero is active yet it has only one character. Bring in Black Shadow (not trying to start a debate over Black Shadow versus Samurai Goroh), preferably with Ganondorf's old moveset.
• Saki ain't getting in with an obscure two-game series.
• Replace Animal Crosser with Tom Nook, a more popular and less ambiguous character than the crosser.
• Not enough new series. I suggest Starfy, Paper Mario, Ray 01 and a bunch of other characters I'm forgetting.
• Maybeh Simon Belmont if you have room.

Otherwise, looks good.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

It seems that everyone says Jiggly is popular in Japan, so I assumed they were right. I think it's probably safe to say she's more popular there than here (that's not saying much). Otherwise, how did she get in?

Like I said, during the first generation, she was easily the second most popular pokemon, was regularly marketed, and even had decent roles in the anime and manga. She's probably the only character who has ever gotten into Smash based solely on popularity which has greatly dwindled since then. I kind of get the feeling that she was also added to give Pokemon more of a spot light because it was only released about half a year earlier in North America, Australia, and Europe when the first Smash Bros came out.

 

[Clownbot]

Commentary on Mario the Jumpman's roster

• Tingle is definitely more likely than Vaati. Vaati is a forgotten and obscure antagonist whose three games are some of the worst-selling in the series, whereas Tingle is an exceedingly popular (in Japan) and significant (with two games and a third coming out). Yes, certain people dislike him, but as long as a character has people who like them those who don't shouldn't matter (would anybody even mind Tingle if they never have to use him?), plus he can make an excellent punching bag for those who dislike him.
• The most likely new FE character is... new FE lord! A lord from a new Fire Emblem brought up before SSB4. Now with 100% less reasons against their inclusion because he/she doesn't even exist yet.
• Why is there no F-Zero newcomer? F-Zero is active yet it has only one character. Bring in Black Shadow (not trying to start a debate over Black Shadow versus Samurai Goroh), preferably with Ganondorf's old moveset.
• Saki ain't getting in with an obscure two-game series.
• Replace Animal Crosser with Tom Nook, a more popular and less ambiguous character than the crosser.
• Not enough new series. I suggest Starfy, Paper Mario, Ray 01 and a bunch of other characters I'm forgetting.
• Maybeh Simon Belmont if you have room.

Otherwise, looks good.

*attacks Wizzerd*

Commentary on Wizzerd's commentary

• Vaati could always be the villain of Spirit Tracks, however unikely that may be.
  
• Unless F-Zero gets a new game before SSB4, it probably won't get another rep. Even then, I'm a bit iffy on it.
  
• The S&P games have growing popularity, even in America as evidenced by S&P2 being released here and the first being released on the VC in America.
  
• The Animal Crosser is the main character of Animal Crossing. Give him a male default with a female option, and use the billiard ball shirts as palette swaps.

 

[n88]

Yeah, I heard Pit got booted from ssb64 to give Jiggly a spot (due to Pokemon's popularity), but I have no source for that, so....

 

[Clownbot]

They said the same for Meowth and Mewtwo, didn't they?

 

[Fatmanonice]

They said the same for Meowth and Mewtwo, didn't they?

And King Dedede too but, so far, there really hasn't been any evidence pointing to this.

 

[SmashChu]

Just curious, SmashChu, what is your basis for declaring that "most" people hate him? It sounds like a broad generalization about a group of people with no evidence. I find him annoying, but I don't hate him. Most people here don't hate him either, it seems. There is a general negative view, I suppose, but hate?

Also, homophobia should not be a reason why you exclude a character. Incidentally, I think Tingle is creepy, but not "gay." And Luigi is fairly effeminate in Smash.

Because, straight up, most people hate him. He has always been hated, and it's surprising to see anyone who doesn't think he's hated. Why do you think Europe and Japan got Tingle's Ruppeland but we didn't? The only place I've seen people like Tingle is Nintendo Database. The Tingle love here is an oddity. Go anywhere else and you'll find everyone hates him.

 

[Zario777]

@ Jumpman:
WHAT HAPPENED TO OLIMAR?!? lol jk but I think Olimar should stay

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Actually, Mewtwo, Bowser, and King Dedede were the only characters that we know of officially that got booted from SSB64. It had something to do with them being antagonists (because obviously, they're all antagonists and there are none in SSB64). We know Pit was a candidate but we don't know how far he got, and he definitely didn't get as far as the above three I mentioned. Lastly, characters like Peach and Meowth were just rumors, they were never really planned or in the beta or anything as far as we know.

And if Jigglypuff got beat out by anyone, it would be Mewtwo obviously, not Pit.

 

[kirbywizard]

Anyone else think Tom Nook would make a good Animal Crossing Rep?
I find Nook a better candidate then the Crosser because well he has a solid look. And by solid look I mean he has main appearance , while the crosser has many different face combination. I also find it that Tom Nook is most likely in the top three characters you will see through-out the entire time you play Animal Crossing.The main way you make money is from Nook, the main way you get furniture is buying it from Nook, the only way you can get your house bigger is by paying off Nook, and he is one of the few characters you have to meet in the beginning of the game. You will constantly visit him through out the game. At times even the neighbors talk about him, and at some point you can learn his background story.

The main problem I feel for the Crosser is he has no solid look, I mean he is generic, and so is the Pokemon Trainer but the trainers has one solid look >_>.

The only thing I find sad about the animal crossing having a rep is the way the Animal Crossing Series is, and it is non-violent. But then again ROB is just a toy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Replace Toad with Bowser Jr. This is debatable, but in recent years, Toad has lost his individuality and doesn't do much in the fighting department. He's been downgraded to a minor character in the series, while Bowser Jr. has become important.

Yoshi lost his individuality in recent years, too. The Yoshi is not even playable in any Yoshi's Island games either. The Yoshi was born at the end of Yoshi's Island DS. The Yoshi isn't even in Super Mario Galaxy 2 nor New Super Mario Bros. Wii. And yet the Yoshi uses moves all the other generic Yoshis use in Smash games. So, even if the Toad lost his individuality in recent years and and isn't playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, he can still use moves all the generic Toads use in SSB4.

Also, don't use the "he doesn't do much in the fighting department" argument again. That argument has been 100% debunked with the addition of R.O.B., a peripheral that never fought at all. Sakurai added R.O.B. because he saw the potential in making R.O.B. an unique fighter.

Also, why add Bowser Jr. if he's more likely going to end up as a clone of Bowser anyway? Toad has the potential to have an original moveset with possibly only one special move being a clone of Peach's Vegetable move. Sakurai just has to look into Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and the Mario Kart series for moveset ideas.

DK)
Combine Diddy and Dixie into one character (Down B transformation)

Either way are fine with me as long as Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are both playable.

Replace Lip with Takamaru
She's been referenced more in Smash (showing Sakurai's interest).

Just because Sakurai referenced Lip a lot more than Takamaru does not always mean she's going to be playable. There is a small chance she might be playable, though. The fact she and Takamaru are both Japan-only lower their chances. The fact that Nintendo does not put Lip in her own franchise outside of Japan further lower her chances. Takamaru has the potential to revive his franchise but Lip does not because her franchise never died. Also, I'm not adding her just because she's a female character.

Don't get your hopes up for the Duck Hunt Dog. It won't happen. I've heard your arguments, but I remain (like everyone else) unconvinced.

It won't happen? Okay, "Sakurai". I am curious why people remain unconvinced by my arguments supporting the Duck Hunt Dog.

Ridley should be in there. He probably won't make it in, but he should.

Maybe he will be playable, maybe he won't... I just have my doubts seeing how big he is once again in Metroid: Other M.

There's a small chance for a second Wario rep, but like I said, it's small.

Okay, so you say there is a small chance for a second Wario character yet you say the Duck Hunt Dog won't happen? Why not at least "a small chance" for the Duck Hunt Dog, too?

FE could regain Roy or add a non-sword character. I would bet on a new FE character, as it is gaining popularity and is getting an 11th game shortly, I believe.

If Roy gets a new game then he could come back in SSB4, but if he doesn't get a new game, then he is most likely not returning.

I would add a Golden Sun or Sin & Punishment rep before the Mii or an Advance Wars Rep.

Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment are kinda obscure compared to the Wii series and the Wars series. I mean, the Wii series starring Mii's is one of Nintendo's best-selling franchise (beating even Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon all combined) and the Wars series is one of Nintendo's long-running franchises with about 10 games out.

 

[SmashChu]

Like I said, during the first generation, she was easily the second most popular pokemon, was regularly marketed, and even had decent roles in the anime and manga. She's probably the only character who has ever gotten into Smash based solely on popularity which has greatly dwindled since then. I kind of get the feeling that she was also added to give Pokemon more of a spot light because it was only released about half a year earlier in North America, Australia, and Europe when the first Smash Bros came out.

And King Dedede too but, so far, there really hasn't been any evidence pointing to this.

From what I know, Sakurai wanted more characters, but it was a low budget title so they either didn't have the time or resources. I beleive he wanted to add Bowser, Mewtwo and a Fire Emblem character. Peach and Dedede may have been there as well. I'll check the awesome thread at Starmen.net.

EDIT: it was Dedede, Bowser and Mewtwo.
Starman Thread

On a side note, I found this:
http://fryguy64.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ssb&action=display&thread=2418

It has some neat stuff. There could be more to it though.
BTW, if Flip is right, then I'm wrong on Pit. It was his game on the GBA that got him in.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Is it true that Sakurai has a hate for Advance Wars? I heard it awhile back. But since FE and AW are technically the same game with a different shade of brownz, 1 FE character and 1 AW character would be a nice combination for a intelligent systems rep. But the only AW character i see playable is the deceased Brenner. He'd be like a Snake clone, but slower. Final Smash would be another Land Master, lul.

And if Sakurai isn't adding any more slots, then say goodbye to Red and Lucario.
Soon to be replaced with delicious 2nd gen girl trainer & 5th gen furry.
(Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligator) If its not second gen, then one of the following;
(Mudkip, Grovile, Blaziken)
(Piplup, Grotle, Infernape)
amirite?

 

[shmo395]

What i dont understand is why they cut mewtwo and put in lucario, but they add wolf. And why did they cut roy and add ike? Cant they just keep mewtwo and roy and add on lucario and ike? Also why did they take out the red shell, but they put the bumper back in? One thing i did like about brawl though is that they made "clones" more different from each other.