[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Chief Mendez]

As nostalgically perfect as Mega Man would be, the closer SFIV and that new vs. game come the more I think that it'd be kinda cool if Ryu were a theoretical Capcom rep too.

I mean...he's the symbol of two players kicking the crap out of eachother. Not to mention that there's so many genres in this game represented; from platformer games, to adventure games, flight simulators, RPGs, Strategy, various forms of action games, and maybe even some puzzle. So it seems only natural to eventually have a fighting game rep.

If Ryu is in then so is Ken. I am so totally for this idea though.

B = Hadouken
Side+B = Hurricane Kick
Up+B = Shoryuken
Down+B = Parry

Anyway, let's talk more about alt costumes

Eh, I think it's fine like it is, actually. It would be a neat touch, to replace Yoshi with Birdo (or what have you), but it seems pretty superfluous to me, especially with all the other things the developers could spend their time on. And like others have pointed out, there are other issues that come with making characters look like other people--taunts, crowd cheers, trophies, and so on.

I don't think, however, that it'd be so unrealistic to hope for more characters to have an alternate form, like Wario does. Ike could become "Big" Ike, Falco could change into his Assault outfit...

...or maybe not. Anyway, like I said, it'd be really neat, but it should be near the very bottom of the developer's priority list.

well Solid Snake should definetly get his MGS4 appearance as an alternate, plus like I said before better online but sometimes I think to myself that it won't really make a big differnce from brawl to SSB4 at least fromm Nintendo's perspective because c'mon, their online sucks badly, maybe microsoft should develop the next Nintendo system lol..

We won't be seeing Old Snake in SSB4 unless Konami ports Guns of the Patriots to the Wii2 later on in life.

A Gekko trophy is one thing, but an actual character is quite another.

And as for the online complaints...I think everyone here can agree that if Brawl only let you customize random matches, use custom stages, and had fewer latency issues, it'd be a perfect system. Sure, it might be nice to add random match'd people to your friend list, but for us at least, finding people to play with isn't really an issue.

Also voice chat.

 

[viparagon]

What will the game be called? definely not "ssb4" if current trends keep up. How bout

showdown

throwdown

battle

skirmish

hoedown (okay i'll stop)

war

come to think of it, after brawl and melee, they're really aren't many good names left. Perhaps ssb4 will suffice

EDIT:

^^^Raiden for ssb4, or soulcal 5 (he could be the ps3 exclusive while the guy from ninja giaden is on the xbox) I love the scenewhere he take out like, twenty geckos with just a sword!!

 

[Arigon]

Improved super smash, what i mean by this is make it so its not the b button you have to click to use this its your emotes, and all four emotes are a different type of final smash, for instance they could be power, strength, speed, and hp regen or something along those lines.

As for characters, i would like to see another team character like the ice climbers just because they would be fun to play with.

I would like wi-fi to be updated so its not so laggy although i do realize that not much can be done for that. More options and things to play with in stage builder.

New features- I cant think of anything that i would like to see new, he did a great job making brawl a very extensive game. Actually just thought of a new feature that would be so very much cool. A customizeable character. Pick the looks the moves the final smash, you could make him weigh more or less pick his speed or whatever. This of/c would not be aloud in tourneys but it would be a lot of fun to make specific rules for you and your friend. And who here doesnt want a jigglypuff with bowsers moves vs. a bowser with jigglypuffs moves lol.

And for names- SSBR-riot, SSBC-clash, SSBW-war, SSBD-duel, SSBE-encounter.

Thats just my $0.02

 

[ducky285]

If Ryu is in then so is Ken. I am so totally for this idea though.

B = Hadouken
Side+B = Hurricane Kick
Up+B = Shoryuken
Down+B = Parry

I would say downB would be Ryu's thrust kick from SF3 and Ken's "crazy" kicks from CvS2. Smash already has a form of parrying (power shielding) so I don't think it should be a part of someone's moveset.

I was toying around with the idea of Capcom characters in a Smash setting. Like Morrigan from Darkstalkers. Not exactly wishing or hoping for that but I find it interesting enough to at least make some theories.

I.E. Morrigan...

B - Soul Fist
SideB - Valkyrie Turn (more similar to Lilith's Merry Turn)
UpB - Shadow Blade
DownB - Vector Drain (command grab)
FS - Darkness Illusion

or maybe Terry Bogard from SNK's series of games

B - Power Wave
SideB -Burning Knuckle
UpB - Rising Tackle
DownB - Crack Shot
FS - Power Geyser

OR EVEN Sol-Badguy from Guilty Gear

B - Gun Fra...I mean Flame (hehe)
SideB - Bandit Revolver/Bandit Bringer
UpB - Volcanic Viper
DownB - Grand Viper
FS - Dragon Install or Tyrant Rave

Like I said, just something to think about, not necessarily something to pursue or expect from a future game. I like thinking about dumb stuff like this.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I would say downB would be Ryu's thrust kick from SF3 and Ken's "crazy" kicks from CvS2. Smash already has a form of parrying (power shielding) so I don't think it should be a part of someone's moveset.

I was toying around with the idea of Capcom characters in a Smash setting. Like Morrigan from Darkstalkers. Not exactly wishing or hoping for that but I find it interesting enough to at least make some theories.

I.E. Morrigan...

B - Soul Fist
SideB - Valkyrie Turn (more similar to Lilith's Merry Turn)
UpB - Shadow Blade
DownB - Vector Drain (command grab)
FS - Darkness Illusion

or maybe Terry Bogard from SNK's series of games

B - Power Wave
SideB -Burning Knuckle
UpB - Rising Tackle
DownB - Crack Shot
FS - Power Geyser

OR EVEN Sol-Badguy from Guilty Gear

B - Gun Fra...I mean Flame (hehe)
SideB - Bandit Revolver/Bandit Bringer
UpB - Volcanic Viper
DownB - Grand Viper
FS - Dragon Install or Tyrant Rave

Like I said, just something to think about, not necessarily something to pursue or expect from a future game. I like thinking about dumb stuff like this.

Well, I figure if those two were in, they'd almost definitely be clones, so...I don't know.

Morrigan would kill Smash Bros. Nobody likes DarkStalkers anyways. Kyo is way cooler than Terry, and I think...don't quote me on this...that he's more, uh, important than Terry. But I sort of missed like, 6 KoF games over the years, so I really have no clue. He's cooler, anyways.

Batsu Ichimonji from Rival Schools

B = Gut Bullet
Side+B = Crescent Star Kick
Up+B = Guts Upper
Down+B = Bullet Kick

FS = Super Guts Bullet

This is fun.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

next should be called something that was shown 50 or so pages back with a cover, forgot what it was.

should include:
raiden
ameratasu
viewtiful joe
vaati
nephenee
FE mage
Roy
Deoxys
Waluigi (hate him, but with wario, well, I guess some people believe he'd be good...)
Megaman
Bowser JR.
Light mage
I think a chocobo would make a good AT... could run aroung and you could ride its back and it could peck people while you attack...
Ryu from Dragon sword would be sick!!!

 

[ducky285]

Darkstalkers is actually popular among the fighting game communities, but Capcom hasn't done much with it in the states. I think DS3 (Vampire Savior) is still popular in Japan, though.

If you're going to include an SNK character, Terry would be #1 on most lists. He's almost SNK's mascot at this point, but Kyo and Iori would be fantastic as well since they symbolize everything about the KoF series. Of course, the fanboys would undoubtedly want Mai in the game, too...you know how THAT goes. >_>

Kyo

B - Wicked Chew
SideB - RED Kick
UpB- Fireball
DownB - Crescent Slash
FS - That cool looking flame punch he does

Iori

B - That purple fireball thing he throws
SideB - That three hit combo thing he does (I need to look this **** up, seriously)
UpB - his version of Kyo's
DownB - Dark Crescent Slash
FS - That big purple flame pillar he throws

Yeah, I need to brush up on my KoF ****, sorry hehe

Mai

B - Kacho Sen
SideB - Deadly Ninja Bees
Up B - Flying Squirrel Dance
DownB - That fire thing she throws out
FS - Super Deadly Ninja Bees (or flashing her opponent..those things can put an eye out >_>)

and yes, this IS fun hehe

 

[Chief Mendez]

next should be called something that was shown 50 or so pages back with a cover, forgot what it was.

should include:
raiden
ameratasu
viewtiful joe
vaati
king k rool
bellum
nephenee
FE mage
Roy
darkrai

I'd lie to see Raiden too, but he's never been on a Nintendo system, and probably never will. Amaterasu would be the beez kneez, though, so would Joe. I personally think Vaati's a good fit, but apparently alot of people think he's not important enough (odd, since he's been the villain of the last three 2D Zeldas).

Uh...King K. Rool...yeah, no comment.

Bellum. You've got to be sh*tting me.

I love Nephenee with a passion, but she's got no plot importance at all, so...but if given the choice, I'd take her over every other Fire Emblem character.

Darkrai's most likely going to be an AT. Deoxys is a better choice for a playable legendary, anyway.

Darkstalkers is actually popular among the fighting game communities, but Capcom hasn't done much with it in the states. I think DS3 (Vampire Savior) is still popular in Japan, though.

Japan also likes crap like the Fate/Stay fighters, so...

DS isn't bad but...eh, I don't know. I prefer Rival Schools or Red Earth as far as non-SF Capcom fighters go.

If you're going to include an SNK character, Terry would be #1 on most lists. He's almost SNK's mascot at this point, but Kyo and Iori would be fantastic as well since they symbolize everything about the KoF series. Of course, the fanboys would undoubtedly want Mai in the game, too...you know how THAT goes. >_>

Well, there you go. I stopped playing KoF at '97, when the Orochi story stopped. Also I got sidetracked by real life.

But then I picked up KoF XI this year, and I've been getting back into the swing of things. Speaking of swings, Mai isn't in that one. Mendez is a sad panda.

If Iori was in the game, his FS would turn him into Orochi Iori for a period of time, a la Warioman. "A rose blooms best near death. You're in full bloom, pal!" (I main Iori in KoF )

Akuma (Street Fighter)

B = Gou Hadoken (Zanku Hadoken in mid-air)
Side+B = Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku (his really long hurrican kick)
Up+B = Ashura Warp
Down+B = Parry

FS = Messata Gou Hado (His SUPER Fireball)

He'd be the Wolf to Ryu and Ken's Fox and Falco, if you catch my drift.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Ameratasu would be interesting, but the only way I see her getting in is if there are one or two Wii exclusive Okami titles.

 

[LavisFiend]

Ah Smash Bros, a franchise that has managed to capture both the competitive players interest as well as the normal joes as well. Although not all the games share such a hearty welcome for both sides of the spectrum, the franchise has still managed to snag both sides, albeit not all the time.

With Smash Bros. heading towards it's fourth iteration, it is clear to see that the gameplay may seem to be getting a little dated. Still just as fun as it was back in the day, the game needs necessary changes to make it feel like a brand new experience. In this thread, I will not fiddle fart around; I am going to get right into the heart of the matter. The question of "how do you change a game drastically without tampering with what works?" will finally be answered from my OWN perspective. I will make up my own terms, and give you a front seat tour of the workings of my mind in regards to creating a brand NEW smash while keeping the game the same in terms of it's sumo-style win and defeat scheme. Due to the nature of how I will break everything down to ultimate detail, this guide will be long, and if you are not canny to reading, then I don't want to see your face here. This is for those who want to see how it IS possible to change the game while keeping it the same. Without further ado, allow me, Lavisfiend, to introduce to you my guide....

To creating a new smash bros. Grab a snack, get situated, and enjoy.

CHAPTER 1: The Basics of Smash Bros.

The basics of smash bros. is this: Up to four fighters enter a 2D plane in the middle of nowhere, the plane hanging over a void. In an entire 360 degree angle around the plane are boundary lines that when passed, rob a player of his or her life. The objective of the game is to catapult your character past the boundary line by widdling away at their percentile until they become so light that they are launched off the stage with ease.

It is THIS core concept that must not change, under any circumstances. It is this core concept that makes Smash what it is. Everything else is subject to change, but what must NEVER change is the games core. To change the sumo wrestler concept of gradually pushing out your opponents is to strip Smash away from making it Smash. It is essentially like taking away supers from Street Fighter, the items from Mario Kart, the "back to start" game mechanics of Metroid titles.

So how do you change a game so drastically while at the same time, preserving the core? The answer is VERY simple:

You intensify and highlight the abilities that will help assist you in catapulting your opponent to their demise. With that said, on to chapter 2.

Chaper 2: Complex, yet simple; blurring the lines between joe and pro

The main thing that makes Smash so great is it's accessibility. Smash is a series that does not rely on 26 different button inputs to relay the message of passing off one move. In smash, it is a few buttons, tops. You can string moves with little to no trouble whatsoever in Smash because of it's accessible and friendly control scheme. Smash, although 2D like most fighters, is not clausterphobic in the sense that you are not reduced to tunnel visioned enviroments. In Smash, the arena is wide open, allowing you to be able to take in the whole area at once instead of in segments. You are able to not have to worry about a "wall," because the "walls" in smash are out over the void. You don't have to worry about being backed up against it, and if you are? You have a plethora of means of returning to the arena to avoid a cornered death.

There are so many means to approach your opponent in smash, but not all of them are favorable due to some being predictable and slow. In Melee, many players found ways around this by exploiting game mechanics, allowing their approaches to be undetectable to those who were not trained to acknowledge it, or just so fast that it overwhelms them. The ability to do this, to decipher from a simple game a layer of depth that is so intricate is clever in itself, but the scales were beginning to tip drastically to one side of the corner. Not a bad thing for those who were on the heavier side, but the lighter side was left pretty much screwed, and any attempts they had against the players who learned of the depth was reduced to rubble.

The main issue here is not so much the fact that the players have exceeded the standard, as this is a good thing as a fighter NEEDS to evolve, the issue is that the simplicity and balance of hardcore players to casual players became overwhelmingly favored to the hardcore. There was no longer ANY chance that a casual player had to defend themselves from the more adapted of players.

The issue is that the simplicity of user input has been breached. but how? Surely the techniques could not have been that difficult to pull off. After all, it was a players discovery that discovered the techniques in Melee. No, the issue is that there were no apparent indicators of an advanced technique being discovered.

The obvious signs of those who discovered the techs realized what they were by experimenting, but to a casual player who would happen to play against a wavedashing SHFFL'ing player was going to lose from the start. He or she would not have a snowballs chance in hell in being able to decipher what was truly happening in front of him or her, why this, this player, had TRANSENDED the natural speed that the casual player was used to.


There was no INDICATOR!

Chapter 3: Indicators of advanced techniques.

An indicator is an aesthetic hint or clue that gives off something strange. The indicator for wavedashing for instance, was "skidding" along the ground while kicking up smoke and remaining dormant in a crouched position. The indicator for L-Canceling was a quicker recovery from an aerial move. Seen very clearly when you use link's D-air.
The shared majority of indicators of advanced techniques in melee were speed increases; however, besides VERY vague hints, a player who was never actually introduced to the technique before getting ***** by it would have no clue as to what was going on, nor how it truly was done without actually sitting down and learning it.

The issue with Melee's advanced techniques were that the indicators were vague, or acted as an "inside-joke" thing. Only those who knew what to do and what exact vague indicators to look for would make any progress, while those who didn't and tried to mimic what they seen would have no clue if they were close to getting it or so far away they might as well be playing a different game.

There needs to be a more PRONOUNCED indicator that serves as universal evidence of acheiving skills beyond the normal ones. An average joe who wants to get better needs to see evidence that he KNOWS he is getting closer. So how does one pronounce indicators of skill growth?

Ladies and gentlemen, read on to chapter 4 on the system of SPARKS I crafted, to get a more greater idea of where I am going with this.

Chapter 4: The SPARKS system

SPARKS stands for Speedy Pacing And Reckognizable Kolored Signals. Haha, or, just SPARKS. Gee aren't I a clever little bas*ard? =P

SPARKS is not just a clever little acronym either; it is a literal proclamation of the shape that a indicator median would make up; colored sparks.

You see, colored sparks work as the greatest indicator; they are aesthetically pronounced through intensity and loud colors, and they give a very literal sign that you are doing SOMETHING, at least, they would if they are implemented. It'll make more sense when I get into the chapter about the advanced techniques, but I am just going to dabble in it a little here. I will use wavedashing as another example.

Let's say you wavedash, but you are able to moderate the speed and distance. How will you know if you are hitting it right and at it's fullest potential? You would acknowledge the color of the sparks.

The colors of the sparks would be RED, BLUE, and GREEN.

RED SPARKS: signifies low or weak execution of the technique. Maybe you did it too soon or came into the technique shallow? RED SPARKS are an indicator of poor execution. Not exactly bad depending on the situation, but it's the lowest you can do.

BLUE SPARKS: signifies medium or moderate execution of the technique. This is the gray area. It is not bad, and it shows that you did it right, but you didn't do it to it's fullest potential.

GREEN SPARKS: signifies High or excellent skill of using the technique. The Green sparks are the best you can get, and are at the maximum level of carrying out a technique.

Back to wavedashing. With the SPARKS system, a player is capable of adjusting a simple technique three different ways, depending on how the situation favors their decision. A red wavedash would be abrupt, and would only carry them a little distance, while a blue wavedash would carry them a moderate distance, and the green would carry them the maximum distance.

By utilizing this SPARKS System, it would carry on to all other forms of action. I will elaborate on this a little more in the next chapter.....



.....BUT.....

I am tired, and I have been typing for about two hours. I am going to take a break, and will continue writing on this guide sometime later today. Please understand that the guide is not finished, and that you can expect to see about 4 more chapters. For now, I hope you like what is written.

Sorry, but that is all for tonight. Feel free to comment on what I have so far, regardless of how little it actually is. =P

 

[OmegaXXII]

Chapter 4: The SPARKS system

SPARKS stands for Speedy Pacing And Reckognizable Kolored Signals. Haha, or, just SPARKS. Gee aren't I a clever little bas*ard? =P

SPARKS is not just a clever little acronym either; it is a literal proclamation of the shape that a indicator median would make up; colored sparks.

You see, colored sparks work as the greatest indicator; they are aesthetically pronounced through intensity and loud colors, and they give a very literal sign that you are doing SOMETHING, at least, they would if they are implemented. It'll make more sense when I get into the chapter about the advanced techniques, but I am just going to dabble in it a little here. I will use wavedashing as another example.

Let's say you wavedash, but you are able to moderate the speed and distance. How will you know if you are hitting it right and at it's fullest potential? You would acknowledge the color of the sparks.

The colors of the sparks would be RED, BLUE, and GREEN.

RED SPARKS: signifies low or weak execution of the technique. Maybe you did it too soon or came into the technique shallow? RED SPARKS are an indicator of poor execution. Not exactly bad depending on the situation, but it's the lowest you can do.

BLUE SPARKS: signifies medium or moderate execution of the technique. This is the gray area. It is not bad, and it shows that you did it right, but you didn't do it to it's fullest potential.

GREEN SPARKS: signifies High or excellent skill of using the technique. The Green sparks are the best you can get, and are at the maximum level of carrying out a technique.

Back to wavedashing. With the SPARKS system, a player is capable of adjusting a simple technique three different ways, depending on how the situation favors their decision. A red wavedash would be abrupt, and would only carry them a little distance, while a blue wavedash would carry them a moderate distance, and the green would carry them the maximum distance.

By utilizing this SPARKS System, it would carry on to all other forms of action. I will elaborate on this a little more in the next chapter.....

I'm liking this "SPARKS" system, kinda like in Tekken training, this system would be very useful not just for nailing a technique to it's fullest, but also for landing moves which on impact would briefly would turn into either of those colors which would be very uselful for mastering or perfecting a certain move when it lands on impact, so basically I could see this working.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I thought of Mario Kart . It seems do-able, but I think I missed the point of it and I'm too tired to read through again....

 

[ducky285]

But then I picked up KoF XI this year, and I've been getting back into the swing of things. Speaking of swings, Mai isn't in that one. Mendez is a sad panda..

She's a hidden character, in her Fatal Fury outfit (a.k.a. the one with less boobage hehe). At least, that's what I heard.

CHUN-LI TIME

B - Kikouken
SideB - Spinning Bird Kick
UpB - Her rising flip kicks from SF Alpha
DownB - Lightning Kick
FS - Hoyoukusen or Kikoushou

Makoto (fav. char from Third Strike)

B - Oroshi (overhead chop)
SideB - Hayate (thrust punch)
UpB - Tsurugi (aerial axe kick)
DownB - Fukiage (upward punch) or Karakusa (command choking grab)
FS - Seichusen Godanzuki (punch....punchpunchpunchpunch WHAM *pose and shout random japanese*)

I did Sol, why not Ky?

B - Stun Edge (hold for Charged Stun Edge)
SideB - Greed Sever
UpB - Vapor Thrust
Downb - Stun Dipper
FS - RIIIIIIIDE THE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIING!!!!!!!!!

DAN HIBIKI FTW

B - Gadouken
SideB - Dankukyaku
UpB - Koryuken
Downb - Here, have an autograph
FS - SUPER TAUNT

 

[manux]

They should include characters of Golden Sun 1 or 2 or Knuckles Tails Megaman or "x"
whatever the game WILL be fun
I MEAN IT

 

[Kiyosuki]

If Ryu is in then so is Ken. I am so totally for this idea though.

B = Hadouken
Side+B = Hurricane Kick
Up+B = Shoryuken
Down+B = Parry

.

I guess maybe, though he was alone in MvC and it was pretty alright. I don't doubt they'd do it though since Ken is the poster boy for "the same thing but a bit different" and you know Sakurai loves those.

Even though it's about both of them though, Ryu a little more than Ken though is the symbol of fighting games so if it had to be one or the other...

As for moves it's really not hard so you've pretty much covered that, but also I was thinking though that all his moves could be "charged" for a moment for better results. Like you could just press B and do a regular Hadouken or charge it a bit and it comes out a bit bigger. If you charge Tatsumaki it kicks more, Shoryuken goes higher etc. If they made him true to his roots he'd be a great chainer, juggle, and combo machine compared to the rest so maybe the chargable moves could add a bit of variety to it, kind of like all of Dante's Gauntlet weapons. While a counter move is pretty fitting, another idea maybe rather than just another down B parry is maybe his famous fake-out Hadouken, where he does the move but nothing comes out. It has no recovery whatsoever though and it's really fast. That'd be kind of interesting. Either that or a red-Hadouken which wouldn't have as much range and damage but it stuns longer because of the fire effect.

For fun, if he does a perfect shield he'd have to have a special animation for it where instead of the bouncing off of metal soundeffect, he does a SFIII parry same pose and SE and everything.

His stage would be his classic stage on top of the castle of course, with the breakable signs and the arena. Except you can go on the actual rooftops of the castle itself too. I don't know what else there could be to distinctify it more. It's kind of fitting for both Ryu and Fighting Games if it were just a well laid-out but eventless stage. Oh god thinking of that classic stage with an awesome rendition of Ryu's theme in one of these games is enough to make any old-time game fan cream his/her pants.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If there truly was a fourth Smash Bros., some of the Melee fighters removed from Brawl should return. My roster would have up to 51 fighters when excluding transformations.

*my old roster*

A few characters from my previous roster didn't feel right to my eyes last time. Although the new changes are small, the roster still sticks with having up to 51 fighters when transformations are excluded.

Bold Text: Characters that I added to my roster.
S Tagged: Characters that I removed from my roster.

----------------------
SSB Veterans

Mario (Dr. Mario for an alternate outfit; Wario for a color swap)
Donkey Kong
Link
Samus / Zero Suit Samus
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Luigi (Waluigi for a color swap)
Captain Falcon (Blood Falcon for a color swap)
Ness
Jigglypuff
----------------------
Melee Veterans

Peach (Daisy for a color swap)
Bowser (Dry Bowser for an alternate outfit)
Zelda / Sheik
Ice Climbers
Mewtwo
Mr. G&W
Marth
Falco
Ganondorf
Pichu
Roy
----------------------
Brawl Veterans

Meta Knight
Pit
Wario (wears WarioWare outfit, but plumber outfit is still an alternate outfit)
Ike
Pokemon Trainer (still uses Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard)
Diddy Kong
Lucas (Claus for a color swap)
King Dedede
Olimar
Lucario
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Wolf
----------------------
3rd Party Veterans

Solid Snake
Sonic (Shadow for a color swap)
----------------------
4th Smash Bros. Newcomers

Rosalina
Bowser Jr.
Kat & Ana
Waluigi
King K. Rool (Kaptain K. Rool for an alternate outfit)
Toon Zelda
Vaati
Ridley (Meta Ridley for an alternate outfit)
Gardevoir
Gallade
Black Knight
----------------------
3rd Party Newcomers

Gray Fox
Tails
Knuckles
Black Mage (the one from Mario Hoops 3 on 3)
----------------------

Basically, I removed Kat & Ana and Gray Fox for some other choices. I added the Black Knight so Ike had a rival to face. And since there are a few Final Fantasy games that have been on the Nintendo systems, and that it's a popular franchise, I thought that someone from that franchise could take the scene (in this case the Black Mage).

 

[Roller]

Tails
Megaman
Bomberman

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I'd lie to see Raiden too, but he's never been on a Nintendo system, and probably never will. Amaterasu would be the beez kneez, though, so would Joe. I personally think Vaati's a good fit, but apparently alot of people think he's not important enough (odd, since he's been the villain of the last three 2D Zeldas).

Uh...King K. Rool...yeah, no comment.

Bellum. You've got to be sh*tting me.

I love Nephenee with a passion, but she's got no plot importance at all, so...but if given the choice, I'd take her over every other Fire Emblem character.

Darkrai's most likely going to be an AT. Deoxys is a better choice for a playable legendary, anyway.

took your advice Chief, check out new list on my post, redid it, much better now.

 

[dudemanthing]

They have to put Mudkip in as a playable character!

so i herd you liek mudkipz

 

[Kiki52]

took your advice Chief, check out new list on my post, redid it, much better now.

Nephenee? Oh my God. She would be more broken than Snake. She'd destroy Claus, Ridley, Geno, and Megaman in one hit. I'd say she should be in... as a trophy

 

[Ilex]

My Roster Idea:

Kicked
Toon Link
Lucario

New Characters
- Toad
- Baby Mario Bros
- Wolf Link / Midna
- Dark Samus
- Lil Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Gooey
- Leon Powolski
- Deoxys
- Blaziken
- Lyn
- Megaman

 

[Deleted member]

My Roster Idea:

Kicked
Toon Link
Ike
Lucario

New Characters
- Toad
- Baby Mario Bros
- Wolf Link / Midna
- Dark Samus
- Lil Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Gooey
- Leon Powolski
- Deoxys
- Blaziken
- Micaiah
- Lyn
- Megaman

Why Kick out ike, who appeared in two important Fire Emblem games, yet add Micaiah, who was less important than him in Radiant Dawn?

EPIC FAIL

 

[Roy-Kun]

Why Kick out ike, who appeared in two important Fire Emblem games, yet add Micaiah, who was less important than him in Radiant Dawn?

EPIC FAIL

I gotta QFT this.

Ike is way more important than Micaiah, why Micaiah should replace Ike?

 

[Ilex]

Why Kick out ike, who appeared in two important Fire Emblem games, yet add Micaiah, who was less important than him in Radiant Dawn?

EPIC FAIL

Because Ike sucks :D

Jk though, I totally overlooked that >>

Edited.

 

[Bassoonist]

Honestly, I don't see any REAL reason to kick out any of the characters at this point.

Maybe Lucario... But hopefully in SSB4 both Mewtwo and Lucario will be in.

 

[SirKibble]

Kicked
Toon Link
Lucario

But why? As I see it, Lucario's unique enough, there's no point kicking him out, although they probably will for a newer Pokemon rep. As for TL, the big argument against him is usually that he's a clone, but I feel he's different enough from Link to hold his own.

New Characters
- Toad
- Baby Mario Bros
- Wolf Link / Midna
- Dark Samus
- Lil Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Gooey
- Leon Powolski
- Deoxys
- Blaziken
- Lyn
- Megaman

Toad, probably not. He's not much of a standout character on his own. I think he plays a much better role as part of Peach's moveset. It'd be like putting a Goomba or a Koopa in. They're really just too minor of characters to fit and work.

Baby Mario Bros., yes. They have real potential.

I don't know my Twilight Princess well enough to give good input on Wolf Link / Midna. I'm not sure we need another Link, which is probably why you cut Toon Link as well. But since I'm for him, I guess that makes me a little against this idea.

Dark Samus, sure, as long as we don't get a Samus clone.

Lil Mac, I'm gonna have to say no to. If we want a boxer/fighter, I think Knuckle Joe will work much better. I know, I'm horrible, I just don't have much love for the guy.

Balloon Fighter, no. He's just too out-there. Sure, G&W was a crazy addition, but he had a huge plethora of games from which to draw his moves. Balloon Fighter can't say the same.

Gooey might work, but other Kirby characters would work better, and better represent the series.

I don't know my Star Fox well enough for Leon. Just please not another clone here.

Deoxys is probably not gonna get a spot, while that would be cool. If Lucario goes, which is far from unlikely, we'll probably get a new Pokemon to replace him, not an old one.

Blaziken, same as Deoxys.

Lyn is a good choice, although there may be better FE characters. We do need a female rep, but it would be nice if we could get someone who's not a sword-weilder.

Megaman is 100% YES!

 

[Digimonkey]

This is what they need...
When you click on "With Anyone" you get 2 choices (two person match, and four person match).
After that, there are three rooms (beginners, average, experts).
With a room specifically for experts only, they can bring back all the advanced techniques.

 

[Bassoonist]

But why? As I see it, Lucario's unique enough, there's no point kicking him out, although they probably will for a newer Pokemon rep. As for TL, the big argument against him is usually that he's a clone, but I feel he's different enough from Link to hold his own.

Toon Link needs to come back, but with a whole new moveset.

Toad, probably not. He's not much of a standout character on his own. I think he plays a much better role as part of Peach's moveset. It'd be like putting a Goomba or a Koopa in. They're really just too minor of characters to fit and work.

Toad is not that minor of a character.

He was playable in Super Mario Bros. 2... He is pretty much the most deserving Mario character that wasn't in Brawl.

 

[SirKibble]

Toon Link needs to come back, but with a whole new moveset.

Yeah, a few changes for him would be nice, but overall, I'd like him to stay basically the same.

Toad is not that minor of a character.

He was playable in Super Mario Bros. 2... He is pretty much the most deserving Mario character that wasn't in Brawl.

All right, perhaps I exaggerated and was a little harsh on the little guy. But really, there are a bazillion Toads, and for the most part, they're just random Toads. What's to make Toad so especially Smash-worthy? I think Bowser Jr. is easily a better next choice from the Mario games.

 

[Ilex]

But why? As I see it, Lucario's unique enough, there's no point kicking him out, although they probably will for a newer Pokemon rep. As for TL, the big argument against him is usually that he's a clone, but I feel he's different enough from Link to hold his own.

Lucario will get kicked for the next Pokemon rep, just like Mewtwo did. I think he's unique, but I support cleaning out old and insignificant characters for newer ones (Jiggly is an exception).

Toon Link is a clone, and there will be newer and better LoZ characters to choose from, like Skull Kid and Midna.

Toad, probably not. He's not much of a standout character on his own. I think he plays a much better role as part of Peach's moveset. It'd be like putting a Goomba or a Koopa in. They're really just too minor of characters to fit and work.

Toad is not like a Goomba or Koopa. He is one of the major characters of the franchise, he was even a playable character in SMB2. Not only that, but from most of the polls I've seen he's the most popular Mario character, outranking Yoshi and Peach who have already made it to Smash. Bowser Jr. is probably a runner up, but he can't compete with the experience and epicness of Toad. Oh, and movesets can be changed :/

Baby Mario Bros., yes. They have real potential.

Yes

I don't know my Twilight Princess well enough to give good input on Wolf Link / Midna. I'm not sure we need another Link, which is probably why you cut Toon Link as well. But since I'm for him, I guess that makes me a little against this idea.

Here is how I see it. Every new game we get a new version of Link and dispose of the old. Wolf Link would be TL's successor just like TL is Young Link's successor.

Dark Samus, sure, as long as we don't get a Samus clone.

Pretty much.

Lil Mac, I'm gonna have to say no to. If we want a boxer/fighter, I think Knuckle Joe will work much better. I know, I'm horrible, I just don't have much love for the guy.

Lil Mac is a classic! He could be the Pit or IC of SSB4. How can you not want him in?

Balloon Fighter, no. He's just too out-there. Sure, G&W was a crazy addition, but he had a huge plethora of games from which to draw his moves. Balloon Fighter can't say the same.

Heh, what games can R.O.B. boast over? Balloon Fighter is pretty much the crazy/random/old school character we always get. I already have a moveset made for him, and if you want I'll show it to you.

Gooey might work, but other Kirby characters would work better, and better represent the series.

The way I see it is that we already have two villains (Who are also allies in some games, but still), so Kirby needs an ally. Knuckle Joe is another enemy so that's why I don't particularly want him. Gooey is Kirby's best friend; who else would be better?

Deoxys is probably not gonna get a spot, while that would be cool. If Lucario goes, which is far from unlikely, we'll probably get a new Pokemon to replace him, not an old one.

Blaziken, same as Deoxys.

Well, Lucario will get replaced with a newer gen for sure, but it doesn't mean that that will be the only new rep. 3rd gen has no PC rep as of now and Deoxys would fill that spot and would fill villain spot of Pokemon too.

 

[SirKibble]

Toon Link is a clone, and there will be newer and better LoZ characters to choose from, like Skull Kid and Midna.

If we're sweeping out clones, why don't we deal with the Star Fox threesome first...

Toad is not like a Goomba or Koopa. He is one of the major characters of the franchise, he was even a playable character in SMB2. Not only that, but from most of the polls I've seen he's the most popular Mario character, outranking Yoshi and Peach who have already made it to Smash. Bowser Jr. is probably a runner up, but he can't compete with the experience and epicness of Toad. Oh, and movesets can be changed :/

I kinda covered this in my last post. Despite him being classic to Mario and being a fairly major character, he lacks unique-ness. I dunno, maybe I just dislike the idea of having him in Smash. Bowser Jr. very easily beats out Toad for me.

Here is how I see it. Every new game we get a new version of Link and dispose of the old. Wolf Link would be TL's successor just like TL is Young Link's successor.

Meh... I like Toon Link, but maybe that's just me.

Lil Mac is a classic! He could be the Pit or IC of SSB4. How can you not want him in?

Just don't, I guess.

Heh, what games can R.O.B. boast over? Balloon Fighter is pretty much the crazy/random/old school character we always get. I already have a moveset made for him, and if you want I'll show it to you.

R.O.B. might as well be a totally made-up character, anyway. Firing lasers and crap... Honestly, I really don't like the guy much. I'd love to see a moveset, as I don't have much faith in the guy's playability, and that's my only real problem.

The way I see it is that we already have two villains (Who are also allies in some games, but still), so Kirby needs an ally. Knuckle Joe is another enemy so that's why I don't particularly want him. Gooey is Kirby's best friend; who else would be better?

If you want an ally, I say go with Adeleine. In my opinion, she has much more potential than Gooey for a good moveset.

Well, Lucario will get replaced with a newer gen for sure, but it doesn't mean that that will be the only new rep. 3rd gen has no PC rep as of now and Deoxys would fill that spot and would fill villain spot of Pokemon too.

Like I said, I have nothing against Deoxys, but I doubt he'll get the spot. I don't think we'll probably ever backtrack and get a 2nd or 3rd gen Pokemon. We have so many reps already from Pokemon, I doubt we'll get too many more, just keep dropping the old for the new.

 

[ness4life]

idk about this list... so I'll make my own.

Don't cut anyone, just make wolf a genuine heavy character, and give TL a moveset from his actual games, and for god's sake de-clone Ganondorf! Oh, I lied. Cut Lucas. Lucas is Satan. Ness was there first, so GTFO of smash!

Put Mewtwo back with a more psychic moveset, and make Dr Mario, Roy, and Pichu alt costumes.

Add:
Krystal
Ridley
Dark Samus if not a clone
Baby Mario Bros w/ a PiT moveset
K. Rool
Isaac
Balloon Fighter
and, of course, FUNKY KONG.
He'd be the best WTF ever...

Every other addition would be great. 3rd Party additions would be nice:
Like Knuckles, Megaman, Geno or Crono, and Ken or Ryu.

That's my list. Wow, I just through a big hunk of meat to the bloggers. Feast, my pets!

 

[Bassoonist]

Funky Kong might be the next "WTF" character, you never know. Sakurai sure loves to borrow his WTF characters from the Mario Kart series.

And... Yes to Isaac! He BEST be in SSB4. Sakurai has already walked on some very thin ice here.

Toad lacks "uniqueness"? I'm sure Sakurai could come up with a moveset for him... and I honestly think that Toon Link needs a whole moveset of his own. A fan could come up with one in seconds, I don't see why he had to be a Link clone.

 

[SirKibble]

Toad lacks "uniqueness"? I'm sure Sakurai could come up with a moveset for him... and I honestly think that Toon Link needs a whole moveset of his own. A fan could come up with one in seconds, I don't see why he had to be a Link clone.

Yes, I'm sure he could, but I still dislike him. I think we're kind of at an impass with Toad anyway. I just don't think he's the type of character that makes the Smash roster.

Toon Link's fine if he gets different specials. He doesn't need a whole entire new moveset. Just use the Deku Leaf and the Skull Hammer and whatnot for his new specials.

 

[Bassoonist]

Well I'll tell you I dislike Bowser Jr., but that's no reason to keep him out.

 

[SirKibble]

Well I'll tell you I dislike Bowser Jr., but that's no reason to keep him out.

I mean I dislike the idea of him as a Smash character. No, I don't flat-out dislike Toad. I just wouldn't like him being in Smash. I don't feel that he fits as a playable character. Maybe just me, though.

 

[D14]

Fixed and agreed.

What is wrong with you Amy haters anyway?

Anyways, I think Old Snake for character will be kinda cool, or Mewtwo could return in the next game..

 

[Kiki52]

idk about this list... so I'll make my own.

Don't cut anyone, just make wolf a genuine heavy character, and give TL a moveset from his actual games, and for god's sake de-clone Ganondorf! Oh, I lied. Cut Lucas. Lucas is Satan. Ness was there first, so GTFO of smash!

Put Mewtwo back with a more psychic moveset, and make Dr Mario, Roy, and Pichu alt costumes.

Add:
Krystal
Ridley
Dark Samus if not a clone
Baby Mario Bros w/ a PiT moveset
K. Rool
Isaac
Balloon Fighter
and, of course, FUNKY KONG.
He'd be the best WTF ever...

Every other addition would be great. 3rd Party additions would be nice:
Like Knuckles, Megaman, Geno or Crono, and Ken or Ryu.

That's my list. Wow, I just through a big hunk of meat to the bloggers. Feast, my pets!

I don't think that would settle a lot of Japanese people well if Lucas were to be cut. Maybe Lucas should be nerfed big time while Ness buffed big time and take away certain moves (I'm looking at you Marth(a)) but I'd like a 3rd MOTHER rep. I'd have to say no to Claus because we should keep light sabres/swords to a minimum. I'd have to nominate Paula over Claus because she has a teddy bear and I want her to beat Ness over with her teddy bear for pure embarassment if you know what I mean. Funny/silly/cute KO weapons like teddy bears beat lightsabres anyday.

I'd like Roy as an alt too for Martha, but to make it very valuable make it super hard to unlock, complete with voices and everything. On top of that, they should take away Ike's Eruption and make it so that it'd be a similar attack except it doesn't cause fire to come out of the sword, but rather more like shockwaves similar to how Ragnell shoots from a distance in Ike's real game. Mewtwo can return but I think Sakurai deleted him because then the 1st generation would have too much representation and only have Lucario as the sole non-1st gen rep.

Krystal and Ridley would be good. I'd like Krystal much over Leon because Krystal has much more moveset potential and would be much more different and more iconic amongst Star Fox fans. K Rool and Isaac are definite pluses. I don't know about the others though. Probably wouldn't want Knuckles if that means taking 2 3rd party slots. Megaman probably is the most given of all 3rd party reps, I cannot think of any other viable 3rd party besides him that is remotely popular. If I had my way, Master Chief would be in the game but that's impossible so Megaman it is.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think that would settle a lot of Japanese people well if Lucas were to be cut. Maybe Lucas should be nerfed big time while Ness buffed big time and take away certain moves (I'm looking at you Marth(a)) but I'd like a 3rd MOTHER rep. I'd have to say no to Claus because we should keep light sabres/swords to a minimum. I'd have to nominate Paula over Claus because she has a teddy bear and I want her to beat Ness over with her teddy bear for pure embarassment if you know what I mean. Funny/silly/cute KO weapons like teddy bears beat lightsabres anyday.

I'd think Kumatora would be a good choice if we were to eliminate Claus. She could get back at Lucas for being a PSI thief. Speaking of nerfing, maybe he could be nerfed by giving him the PSI he actually learns and the same goes for Ness.

 

[Chief Mendez]

one or two Wii exclusive Okami titles.

If this happens, I will be happy. It won't happen though, and so I am sad.

P.S. I think you'd get quoted more often if your username wasn't such a pain to type.

SPARKS

It's a fine idea, and aside from some worries about visual clutter (ridiculously large puffs of dust whenever a character does anything + flying colored sparks + special move effects = indistinguishable blur of sparkly stuff), it sounds like a plan.

But I don't see how that alone fundamentally changes the shape of the game. I suppose I'll have to wait for the rest of your, uh, dissertation.

She's a hidden character, in her Fatal Fury outfit (a.k.a. the one with less boobage hehe). At least, that's what I heard.

Really? Maybe in the PS2 version...but I've only been playing the game at my local arcade, and as far as I know, she's not. Maybe I'll have to pick up the console version then...

Makoto (fav. char from Third Strike)

B - Oroshi (overhead chop)
SideB - Hayate (thrust punch)
UpB - Tsurugi (aerial axe kick)
DownB - Fukiage (upward punch) or Karakusa (command choking grab)
FS - Seichusen Godanzuki (punch....punchpunchpunchpunch WHAM *pose and shout random japanese*)

My favorite 3rd Strik'r is probably...Ibuki. No wait, Remy. Yeah, Remy.

B = Crouching Fierce
Side+B = Light of Justice (Smashed version skids along the ground)
Up+B = Rising Rage Flash
Down+B = Cold Blue Kick

FS = Sonic Boom

I did Sol, why not Ky?

Because Slayer's coolerst.

B = Mach Punch
Side+B = Dandy Step (from this, B = Crosswise Heel, A = Pile Bunker)
Up+B = Immortality Wings
Down+B = Undertow

FS = All Dead (seriously, Smash Bros. needs a character who recites haiku)

DAN HIBIKI FTW

B - Gadouken
SideB - Dankukyaku
UpB - Koryuken
Downb - Here, have an autograph
FS - SUPER TAUNT

Quoted for truth.

Oh god thinking of that classic stage with an awesome rendition of Ryu's theme in one of these games is enough to make any old-time game fan cream his/her pants.

Pants officially creamed, sir.

I agree with everything else you said, too. I really want him in now...but there's still Megaman (and Viewtiful Joe...anyone?) to think of. We'd probably only get one rep from any given company, so...

The only thing I still don't gel with is his potential Down+B. None of his signature moves really fits that, and I'd rather not let him go the way of Sonic, having two moves that are so stupidly similar. It doesn't to be Parry, but...well, maybe if I explain the idea a little.

Marth/Lucario's counter is a move you have to do separately, and it's not really spammable or anything. There's only a small window of opportunity for the move to activate, and it's generally an okay idea. But Parry would work differently. It wouldn't stop projectiles at all: just melee attacks. There'd be an incredibly small start-up animation, and no ending lag. The best part is that you can do it from any move, at any time. So in effect, it would let Ryu create feints out of his entire moveset. The only time you couldn't do it is when you've been launched, helpless, or taunting. Also it doesn't have any knockback. It might do 1 or 2% damage, but it's chief purpose is to stop any close-combat attack instantly, and leave the opponent stunned for a second or two in the process, allowing you to start attacking them freely.

Kicked
Toon Link
Lucario

New Characters
- Toad
- Baby Mario Bros
- Wolf Link / Midna
- Lil Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Gooey
- Leon Powolski
- Deoxys
- Blaziken
- Lyn

Let me first start out by saying that I know other hopeful character lists were posted, but this one was short, and has the most controversial characters, so...

Funky Kong will never happen, by the way.

Toad - Probably not. You know the drill: he's part of Peach's moveset, and he's a generic character besides.

Baby Mario Bros. - This is a terrible idea. I stand firmly by the side of a certain individual on these boards who shares with me a deep, terrible hatred for the Baby Bros.

Wolf Link w/Midna - I don't now why this idea is so popular. Wolf Link wasn't any fun to play as in Twilight Princess, so what makes you think he'd be a fun Smash Bros. contestant? Also, by the time SSB4 rolls around, there'll be another console Zelda, which is where Link will take his look and moveset from. Add in Toon/Young Link, and you're set. There's no way we're having three "Links".

Little Mac - I say yes. I know 'Kibble wants Knuckle Joe, and really, since I haven't actually had any experience with that guy in his games, I can't say either way but...c'mon--the guy wears a pair or underwear on his head. What a loser.

Little Mac for the win.

Balloon Fighter - Nope. Unless Ninty makes a new WiiWare version of Balloon Fight (a la the online Dr. Mario game on the service), I don't think so.

Gooey - Who?

Leon Krystal - Sounds good to me!

Deoxys - I'm all for the guy, but I think he may have missed his chance when Brawl relegated him to a Pokeball. By SSB4, the fifth generation will be here, so with Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard, and Lucario (or Mewtwo, I doubt both)...that's already alot of Pokemon. Add in a fith gen rep, and I think we're solid.

Blaziken - Not as a standalone character. If anything, Blaziken might be in if, in SSB4, Pokemon Trainer was able to handle more Pokemon, or if they gave him different "teams" of Pokemon. He could have three sets: one for the first gen, third gen, and the shiny new fifth gen.

Lyn - Fire Emblem 7 is really unpopular in Japan (they made the game easier and the story less complex for us American newcomers, apparently), and there are better choices *coughnepheneecough*.

This is what they need...
When you click on "With Anyone" you get 2 choices (two person match, and four person match).
After that, there are three rooms (beginners, average, experts).
With a room specifically for experts only, they can bring back all the advanced techniques.

Yeah, this wouldn't work. All they need to do is let you create rooms in the "with anyone" section, and while you set the rules, random people will search for free rooms, and the game will assign them to your room as time goes by.

Matchmaking, I feel, has never really worked in online games yet. Halo apparently judges your skill level, and pairs you up with people of according skill for "fair" matches, but 98% of the time, I still get ***** online anyway.

Same goes for Smash--if you can't hack it, either get better, or only play with friends.