[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Krug]

the onlyy mario charter thats should be in the next game is paper mario or bower jr. one of the would replace dr mario. they should wiauigi in wario ware game's. then he could be in ssb4

Though I would like Bowser Jr. in, I don't think Dr. Mario should be replaced. Bowser Jr. Shouldn't replace anyone to get in. Dr.Mario should only be replaced by another version of Mario. Like with Young Link and Toon Link. So yeah, I like the idea of Paper Mario. Good to have another 2D character.

 

[tirkaro]

3. These games were quite fun, but Vectorman hasn't had a new game since the Genesis days, and he has yet to appear on the VC, so he's never been on a Nintendo console, either.

WROOOOOOOOOOONG!
Vectorman was released on the virtual console in Europe and Japan.(Believe it or not, us Americans aren't the only people left on earth.) And even then, Vectorman appeared in Sonic Gems for the Gamecube.

 

[KUROK]

Ohhhh, I really like the sound of Beat being a playable character, I loved Jet Set Radio. Some other people I'd like to see are probably:

- G-Red from Gotcha Force.
- Klonoa would be kinda cool.
- Lord Zetta from Makai Kingdom. (If only)
- Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You. (I think they could come up with an interesting moveset for him)
- Ray from Custom Robo.
- Isaac.
- Rick Astley.

 

[Saki Zatoichi]

All I want from SSB4 is Travis Touchdown, Saki Amamiya, and another fast, badass character from FE as playable characters.

 

[Zombieoficer]

Smash 4 needs one thing and one thing only.

...Well, maybe two.

It needs more Castlevania. Simon, Juste, Alucard, Soma, I don't care. Any one of them is fine.

And secondly... Ridley. If those two things happen, I can die happy.

 

[Cat Fight]

All I want from SSB4 is Travis Touchdown, Saki Amamiya, and another fast, badass character from FE as playable characters.

Smash 4 needs one thing and one thing only.

...Well, maybe two.

It needs more Castlevania. Simon, Juste, Alucard, Soma, I don't care. Any one of them is fine.

And secondly... Ridley. If those two things happen, I can die happy.

QFTx2

Takamaru could fill the "fast badass character" but he's not from FE. :"{

 

[Digimonkey]

It needs "Board the Platforms"! I loved that mode.

 

[trev94]

does any one think that mewtwo is going to come back or roy

 

[globiumz]

To justify the next Smash, and keep people interested, we will prbably need some new and big changes/additions to the physics engine. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Personally, I would like the a Smash meter, filling up based on points. You know, points like surviving til 200%. However, this would require careful balancing and no arbitrary stuff like "hang on the ledge for 1 minute".

Also, I hope they add the ability for handstanding for some characters. I'm thinking Sheik, Diddy and Lucario. While handstanding, you would get new attacks but move at a slower speed. Others I would consider to give the handstand ability is DK and Zamus. Zamus is athletic and agile but I dunno if she is good enough to pull it off so I put her in the "maybe" category. The other is DK. I mean, can gorillas actually handstand? Another maybe here. And, of course, new characters who are very agile should be able to do it.

It would also be cool if you could make people trip by puting your leg infront of theirs while they're running. When would you be able to do this? While spot dodging. This would require you to press R at a pretty exact moment. To compensate for yet another defensive option, shield would be power down in terms of regen speed, and activation speed.

 

[trev94]

To justify the next Smash, and keep people interested, we will prbably need some new and big changes/additions to the physics engine. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Personally, I would like the a Smash meter, filling up based on points. You know, points like surviving til 200%. However, this would require careful balancing and no arbitrary stuff like "hang on the ledge for 1 minute".

Also, I hope they add the ability for handstanding for some characters. I'm thinking Sheik, Diddy and Lucario. While handstanding, you would get new attacks but move at a slower speed. Others I would consider to give the handstand ability is DK and Zamus. Zamus is athletic and agile but I dunno if she is good enough to pull it off so I put her in the "maybe" category. The other is DK. I mean, can gorillas actually handstand? Another maybe here. And, of course, new characters who are very agile should be able to do it.

y would they need to do that.(no being mean just interasted)

 

[Cat Fight]

I saw SSB4 should keep footstooling. Which more hitstun you can set up for some RIDICULOUS combos using footstool.

Sheik already has an inescapable 50-67% combo with footstool. Too good.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I saw SSB4 should keep footstooling. Which more hitstun you can set up for some RIDICULOUS combos using footstool.

Sheik already has an inescapable 50-67% combo with footstool. Too good.

it should be kept, good idea wit the combo things.

 

[Negi-Kun]

I don't think so at all. Footstooling is so cheat when it happens. I feel sorry whenever I do it to another person too.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm with Globiumz; in order to distinguish itself from Brawl, the next Smash will have to shake up the formula a bit. (maybe a lot)

 

[olimarmaster]

"the brawl to end them all"




hate 2 brake it 2 u

 

[SkylerOcon]

"the brawl to end them all"




hate 2 brake it 2 u

Read the thread before you post.

We already know that an SSB4 is unlikely. But can we speculate about what would happen? Of course.

 

[globiumz]

Anyone else got good ideas? You know, stuff like the smash meter. Handstanding and tripping people at least change some things, but they aren't that important, just like crawling and footstooling. We need something more revolutionary.

An entirely new gameplay element in other words. Kinda how Smash 64 added edges, differntiating it self from SF, MK, DoA, etc.

 

[Chief Mendez]

the onlyy mario charter thats should be in the next game is paper mario or bower jr. one of the would replace dr mario. they should wiauigi in wario ware game's. then he could be in ssb4

I totally forgot about Paper Mario. So yeah, him first, then Waluigi if another one is wanted/needed. I don't think he'll be showing up in any Warioware games, though. 9-Volt should get that spot, anyways.

WROOOOOOOOOOONG!
Vectorman was released on the virtual console in Europe and Japan.(Believe it or not, us Americans aren't the only people left on earth.) And even then, Vectorman appeared in Sonic Gems for the Gamecube.

The sad thing is, I actually own Sonic Gems. I stand corrected.

Ohhhh, I really like the sound of Beat being a playable character, I loved Jet Set Radio. Some other people I'd like to see are probably:

- Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You. (I think they could come up with an interesting moveset for him)
- Ray from Custom Robo.
- Rick Astley.

He would be rockin', right? He'd have really long, but short jumps, he'd be sort of slippery on the ground, and his moves would revolve around kicks and spray-painting.

I don't really like Neku as a character, but TWEWY is an awesome game, and he's fun to play as. That's actually almost the same way I feel about Sora from Kingdom Hearts--stupid character, but would be really fun to play as.

Ray MkII for the win.

All I want from SSB4 is Travis Touchdown, Saki Amamiya, and another fast, badass character from FE as playable characters.

Unless there's another S&P, I think Saki should stay as an AT. Travis wouldn't be Travis without the constant F*bombs, so I doubt it (though it would be awesome), and Sothe could fill that badass FE character slot, assuming Intelligent Systems doesn't make another Fire Emblem after the upcoming DS remake.

To justify the next Smash, and keep people interested, we will prbably need some new and big changes/additions to the physics engine. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Personally, I would like the a Smash meter, filling up based on points. You know, points like surviving til 200%. However, this would require careful balancing and no arbitrary stuff like "hang on the ledge for 1 minute".

Also, I hope they add the ability for handstanding for some characters. I'm thinking Sheik, Diddy and Lucario. While handstanding, you would get new attacks but move at a slower speed. Others I would consider to give the handstand ability is DK and Zamus. Zamus is athletic and agile but I dunno if she is good enough to pull it off so I put her in the "maybe" category. The other is DK. I mean, can gorillas actually handstand? Another maybe here. And, of course, new characters who are very agile should be able to do it.

It would also be cool if you could make people trip by puting your leg infront of theirs while they're running. When would you be able to do this? While spot dodging. This would require you to press R at a pretty exact moment. To compensate for yet another defensive option, shield would be power down in terms of regen speed, and activation speed.

To "justify" a new Smash Bros. (as if another reason besides "it prints money" is actually needed), they'd have to do something else. Not many people outside of these forums will be excited by the tagline: "Super Smash Bros. 4, now with NEW physics!". Online co-op SSE with voice chat, 50 characters (it's a big, important number), downloadable content...stuff like that is what'll get people's attention.

Anyway, I still say no to a meter. I've said alot about this previously, but to sum it up: it's just not Smash's style.

Handstanding...where did that come from? So you're suggesting we slow down certain characters, while giving them new movesets...basically a stance/style change, like you'd find on certain Virtua Fighter (Vanessa) or Soul Calibur (Nightmare) characters? Again, I think this is just complicating Smash to a degree where it's no longer as unique as it should be. Plus, it gives X character a bigger moveset, which is more than a little unfair.

I like the tripping idea, though I don't think it'd be used very often. But put it in anyways--tripping someone out of a Fox Illusion/Falco Phantasm would be absolutely priceless.

An entirely new gameplay element in other words. Kinda how Smash 64 added edges, differntiating it self from SF, MK, DoA, etc.

I think you're confused. You're comparing Smash to fighting games. I consider Smash to be an action game, as the only thing it shares with fighting games is the 2D perspective (which is shared by platformers, sidescrollers, and all other kinds of games) and the act of hitting enemies to deal damage to them, and eventually win by doing so repeatedly.

There are no character-specific inputs, no health meters, no ring outs, no reversals, no automatic combos or anything of the sort.

...anyway, disregard all that--it's just a personal preference.

What I think you're asking for isn't going to happen again, without actually changing how the game is played. The first Smash game had that sort of innovation, but only because it was the first game. By definition, all forthcoming sequels will just upgrade and refine the base system. So we can get changes like air grabs, no tripping dodge tripping, smash specials, and so on...but if you're looking for huge, game-altering modifications, the only real idea I have is to make the game 3D, which nobody wants anyways.

Uh...what about "homing combos"? Press the guard button right after (or as you) you land an aerial on someone in the air, and your character will follow them as they fly away, letting you potentially deal another attack in midair. Anyone? They could implement this on the ground as well. If you land a fully-charged Smash Attack, and you press guard just as you land the attack, your character will jump off after you launched opponent. It would be very difficult to time, but an expert player could do some amazing things with it.

Of course, the enemy could dodge your next attack by simply air-dodging, or with proper DI, so it wouldn't be an automatic stringof hits until you get pushed off-stage.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I have been thinking about this for a while.

Tag-Team Final Smashes.


So here it goes: when playing as a team and one team member activates a FS both players combine their power to perform a dual final smash. Can't you just imagine mario and samus's happening at the same time? The possibility of awesomeness is limitness (in my opinion)

 

[SirKibble]

"the brawl to end them all"




hate 2 brake it 2 u

Um... Yeah, but as long as we don't get "Super Smash Bros. Brawl II," it won't be another brawl...

So Melee could've been the melee to end them all... No more Melees...

It's not "the brawl to end... everything."

I have been thinking about this for a while.

Tag-Team Final Smashes.


So here it goes: when playing as a team and one team member activates a FS both players combine their power to perform a dual final smash. Can't you just imagine mario and samus's happening at the same time? The possibility of awesomeness is limitness (in my opinion)

I toyed with this idea... The fact is, it would be simply amazing. The only problem is that's a ton of moves to come up with and program in. You have to account for every character combining with everyone else, including another of their same character. And what about 3 vs 1 battles? What if someone from the team of 3 uses theirs. That's a freaking ton of Team Final Smashes.

Regardless, it would be awesome. How I figured it'd probably work best is actually by a seperate item, one that's destined to be more coveted than the Smash Ball. Perhaps another ball of sorts, the Combo Ball or something, allowing the combination Final Smashes. Naturally, like the Team Healer, it would only appear in Team Battles. But like I said, it's probably not gonna happen because of the sheer number of combinations.


And you saying tag-team reminds me of something else... What if there were tag-team battles? So it's a one-on-one, but each person can switch out and switch their partner in (perhaps through a taunt?). They would slow time, exit the screen (for many it could be the same way they appear, Mario via pipe, Kirby via Warp Star...), and their partner switches in, then the speed returns to normal. Each character has seperate damage meters, so proper switching would be key. They'd have shared stock for their team, and lose one every time either teammate is knocked off the edge. Yes? No? Maybe?

 

[globiumz]

Chief, I think you got me wrong about handstanding. It's something you can enter if you want, when you need it. Instead of up + analog = jump, up + analog would = handstand. Kinda like down + right/left = crawl. While handstanding you would get other tilts than your regular ones. Perhaps also a combo and smashes as well? All though I find it kinda hard to imagine some smashing while handstanding, lawlz.

While this gives some characters larger movesets, those that realistically fight while handstanding are Shiek (sucks and in low tier anyway), Diddy (Mid to high), DK (High?), and Zamus (sucks, in low tier). DK and Diddy could get a new weakness to compensate. Besides, some people also have more than one way to recover (MK, Pit, Lucas, Sheik, etc), so why not?

Anyway, I like what you mentioned about online and DLC. A lot of Brawl's development time was put into the single player (or co-op) campaign, so the next should focus more on community interaction. Better and expanded online play for one. An incredible new stage maker.

Now, this may sound drastic, but maybe Nintendo should release a construction set, kinda like how Beth did for TES IV: Oblivion? Fans could design new stuff (characters, items) and release it as homebrew software..... These would be unusable online of course.

Again, focus the next Smash on community interaction.

 

[Frown]

If Sakurai doesn't want to make any more Smash Bros. games, then some other guy from Nintendo will lead the project. They want MONEH.

 

[Chief Mendez]

And you saying tag-team reminds me of something else... What if there were tag-team battles? So it's a one-on-one, but each person can switch out and switch their partner in (perhaps through a taunt?). They would slow time, exit the screen (for many it could be the same way they appear, Mario via pipe, Kirby via Warp Star...), and their partner switches in, then the speed returns to normal. Each character has seperate damage meters, so proper switching would be key. They'd have shared stock for their team, and lose one every time either teammate is knocked off the edge. Yes? No? Maybe?

To add to this, when a character isn't in play, their damage meters slowly recover.

Nintendo published two games on the DS that are basically Smash Bros., only with Shonen Jump characters, aptly titled "Jump Super Stars" and "Jump Ultimate Stars". In those games, you make "decks" out of comic panels with various Jump characters on them. This system lets you have up to four playable characters in a deck, and you switch between them during a match by tapping their panel on the bottom screen, which always displays your made deck. In addition to the health-regaining mechanic described above, there's another neat trick you can do in the Jump Stars games--Dream Combos.

You tap the character you're playing as, and it does a strong attack. Then touch a different one immediately after, and that character does one of their specials. Now touch either a third character, or the one you started with, and that character will use their special attack.

The way this would work in Smash is this: you could have up to three characters on a team, and you'd switch them out using different directions on the D-pad (so no taunting during tag-team matches, yo). So if Link = UP, Ike = RIGHT, and Samus = DOWN, I could press UP, RIGHT, DOWN (when playing as Link), to throw a boomerang, Quick Draw, then fire a fully-charged Charge Beam. You could only do this under certain conditions (have a Smash Ball, all team members are at 0%...or maybe it deal damage to you when you do it.

Also, in Jump Super Stars, certain characters would do specific specials when used together in a Dream Combo. For instance, Monkey D. Luffy (ONE PIECE) and Jotaro Joestar (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), when used together in a TC (Luffy>Jotaro>Luffy, or Jotaro>Luffy>Jotaro), would, rather than either of their specials, unleash a huge, screen-spanning, co-op barrage of fists. Both characters do that alot in their respective managas, so it was pretty fitting.

So in SSB4, if you used a Dream Combo of, say...Link and Zelda, you might end up with a...wait for it...

Tag-Team Final Smash

O SNAP. It's possible. For Link and Zelda, Zelda would stun all enemies ahead of her in a straight line with multiple Light Arrows, while Link dashes from one to another, dealing Triforce Slashes to everyone hit by it. You'd sh*t yourself, no doubt about it.

So no, Mario and Samus wouldn't have a Tag-Team FS, but Mario and Luigi would, as would Samus and Dark Samus (Ridley goes with Bowser, I think).

PHEW. I know that was a long post, and I thank anyone who read the whole thing. Hopefully I didn't lose you anywhere along the way.

Chief, I think you got me wrong about handstanding. It's something you can enter if you want, when you need it. Instead of up + analog = jump, up + analog would = handstand. Kinda like down + right/left = crawl. While handstanding you would get other tilts than your regular ones. Perhaps also a combo and smashes as well? All though I find it kinda hard to imagine some smashing while handstanding, lawlz.

While this gives some characters larger movesets, those that realistically fight while handstanding are Shiek (sucks and in low tier anyway), Diddy (Mid to high), DK (High?), and Zamus (sucks, in low tier). DK and Diddy could get a new weakness to compensate. Besides, some people also have more than one way to recover (MK, Pit, Lucas, Sheik, etc), so why not?

Yeah, I know what you mean. Still, I think it'd be unfair. A dual-character like Zelda is a different matter, since in either form, they still have the same number of moves.

But giving only a few characters the ability to instantly gain access to a whole new slew of moves is just unfair, especially if you don't change anything else, like making them jump less far, or being lighter, which I don't think is a good tradeoff for a seemilgly-random addition like handstands. I'd think differently if any of those characters ever actually did a handstand anywhere in their games, but...

And really, it's not even so much that it's unfair--balancing could fix that. It's that you're idea isto give only a few characters out of a huge number of combatants a new ability that will siginificantly improve their versatility.

 

[Bowser King]

If Sakurai doesn't want to make any more Smash Bros. games, then some other guy from Nintendo will lead the project. They want MONEH.

Sakurai said he wouldn't mind doing a next SSB....

 

[SirKibble]

Awesome, Mendez! I especially like the idea of the Team FS like that. So you're saying only certain character combinations would be able to combo FS? Like Mario and Luigi, DK and Diddy, Fox and Falco? Would everyone be paired with someone else? It might get hard for some single reps... G&W and R.O.B., maybe? Lol.

Anyway, side note...

So in SSB4, if you used a Tag Combo of, say...Link and Zelda, you might end up with a...wait for it...

When I read this, before I even got to the next line, my immediate thought was "Baby Link!!"

I'll go sit in the corner now...

 

[Chief Mendez]

So you're saying only certain character combinations would be able to combo FS? Like Mario and Luigi, DK and Diddy, Fox and Falco? Would everyone be paired with someone else? It might get hard for some single reps... G&W and R.O.B., maybe? Lol.

That's the idea. It wouldn't work like that with the current roster, but theoretically, if they put this in the new game, they'd plan ahead to have at least two characters in each series, or at least make sure that everyone has someone else to 'Combo with.

And if Mario tried to 'Combo with anyone besides Luigi, he'd just do a special move at the end of that Dream Combo.

Mario>Kirby>Mario = Fireball, Final Cutter, forward-moving Mario Tornado (put it back!).

Side note...

Originally, it read: "So in SSB4, if you had Link and Zelda do it, you'd get a...wait for it..."

But I edited it so people wouldn't get the right wrong idea. Obviously you're just extra-depraved.

 

[SirKibble]

That's the idea. It wouldn't work like that with the current roster, but theoretically, if they put this in the new game, they'd plan ahead to have at least two characters in each series, or at least make sure that everyone has someone else to 'Combo with.

And if Mario tried to 'Combo with anyone besides Luigi, he'd just do a special move at the end of that Dream Combo.

Mario>Kirby>Mario = Fireball, Final Cutter, forward-moving Mario Tornado (put it back!).

Makes sense. The only problem then might be people don't want to play teams like that. Say I'm playing with someone who really likes playing DK. Well, I can't play Diddy to save my life, so obviously I really don't want to play him. So I choose, say, Ness. But say he's horrible with Lucas, so he sticks with DK. Then perhaps we're playing against two players who are at about our same skill level, but they happen to be compenent as an Ike and Marth team. It puts my team at an automatic disadvantage just because we're unlucky enough to not have compatible characters. It just kind of forces you into picking your character sometimes strictly based on your teammate. What I guess I'm maybe getting at is, maybe each character should have a set number of people they can combo with, like Mario can combo with Luigi, Peach, or Yoshi. Every character would, in that case, have three characters they could combo with, just so it gives people a larger selection.

Side note...

Originally, it read: "So in SSB4, if you had Link and Zelda do it, you'd get a...wait for it..."

But I edited it so people wouldn't get the right wrong idea. Obviously you're just extra-depraved.

Haha, possibly. That or your original thought just shined through the cover-up, and I caught it. I'm just horrible like that.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

heres my idea for mario&luigi: Luigi pulls out the pultergeist 3000 and vaccuums up anyone in range. He then flips to switch from suck to blow (insert sexual reference here) firing the vaccuumed people into the air who then get blasted by large fireballs from mario.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Makes sense. The only problem then might be people don't want to play teams like that. Say I'm playing with someone who really likes playing DK. Well, I can't play Diddy to save my life, so obviously I really don't want to play him. So I choose, say, Ness. But say he's horrible with Lucas, so he sticks with DK. Then perhaps we're playing against two players who are at about our same skill level, but they happen to be compenent as an Ike and Marth team. It puts my team at an automatic disadvantage just because we're unlucky enough to not have compatible characters. It just kind of forces you into picking your character sometimes strictly based on your teammate. What I guess I'm maybe getting at is, maybe each character should have a set number of people they can combo with, like Mario can combo with Luigi, Peach, or Yoshi. Every character would, in that case, have three characters they could combo with, just so it gives people a larger selection.

Okay, so first of all, you could deactivate this, just like you can Smash Balls. In fact, that's how you'd activate the Tag-Team Combos (and hence TT-FSs)--with Smash Balls.

But first, let's lay down some ground rules. There's a new game mode in VS. called "Tag-Team", in which you select three characters per person (it's still a 4-person game, at most). You can do teams, but that won't affect your potential Tag-Team Combos/Final Smashes. When you pick your characters, you assign each to either UP, LEFT and RIGHT, or DOWN on the D-pad, replacing your taunts with character switch.

So all you can do at first is switch characters. Switching to the character already in play just activates their "Tag Special", which is just one of their regular specials, but which special is used differs from character to character (Having Kirby use Inhale in a combo would be rather useless, after all). Switching to another character after a tag special just switches, it doesn't activate the Tag-Team Combo. For that, you need to have a Smash Ball.

Once you break open a Smash Ball, you can still just press B to use your character's FS, or you can use the Tag-Team Combo. Note that even if you don't finish the combo (if you just do Mario>Link, then stop, you just get Fireball>Boomerang, then nothing), you still use up your ability to use your Final Smash. If you do finish it, however, you get the full three part combo (Mario>Link>Meta-Knight = Fireball>Boomerang>Mach Tornado with no ending lag), which always features a "super" version of the last character used's Tag Special, in this case Meta-Knight does a full-powered Mach Tornado, but after it ends and he's in the air, he can immediately double-jump away.

Of course, if you were using Mario>Link>Luigi, you'd get Fireball>Boomerang>Cyclone Bros.

(Luigi pounds Mario down and jumps on his head. They both spin whacking the enemy time and time again with the hammer. This is Mario and Luigi's most powerful, non-elemental Bros. Attack from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)

...Which would also use up your Smash Charge. Note that no matter where Link is used in the example above, Cyclone Bros. is still used, as long as both Mario and Luigi's directions are tapped. The only way that would not happen is if you pressed Mario>Luigi>Link--to get a Tag-Team Final Smash, one of the involved characters must go last. If this wasn't the case, you could get an extra attack in by using Fireball>Green Missile>Smashed Boomerang>Cyclone Bros.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Got all that so far? Okay, now it gets complicated.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Team Battle: The Team Healer requires some level of coordination, but I think this takes it to the next level.

During a team battle, the only way to do Tag-Team Final Smashes is to coordinate button presses with your teammate, who is also playing as a character you can 'Combo with (i.e. you are Mario, he is Luigi). All you have to do is be next to each other (no farther apart than a dodge roll would carry you on the ground, and no farther apart in the air than a Melee-style air dodge would take you) and press B at the same time, and the TTFS goes off without the inclusion of other character's Tag Specials.

Note that in a Tag-Team Mode team battle, there's no special rule like this--Tag Combos and FSs are activated normally.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

mmmm thats a bit more complicated then i had thought it out. And its starting to sound more like marvel vs. capcom then smash.

 

[SirKibble]

Interesting idea... It could definitely work if done right, but I still think it might work best if each character had a few possible Combo partners.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Interesting idea... It could definitely work if done right, but I still think it might work best if each character had a few possible Combo partners.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that. Yeah, Mario might have Luigi and Peach. The problem with doing that is, if you assume that SSB4 will have around 50 characters (at least), then you have to make 50-or-so regular Final Smashes, then about 25 Tag-Team Final Smashes, if each character only has one TTFS partner. So with two, now you're talking about making upwards of 100 different animations, once you've considered all the regular FSs, and all the potential TTFSs...

But again, even with only one partner for each character, you shouldn't worry about balance issues, since the whole system can be turned off by turning off Smash Balls. Sonic has an overpowered FS, but I don't complain every time my brother picks him against my killer Jigglypuff, I just turn off Final Smashes.

mmmm thats a bit more complicated then i had thought it out. And its starting to sound more like marvel vs. capcom then smash.

It sounds complicated, but only because I'm trying to be as explicit as possible with the details. I could just say, "when you switch to a character, they do a special attack, and if you have two compatible fighters (like Mario and Luigi) in your team, you end up with a Tag-Team Final Smash". Trust me, this is exactly how it works in Jump Super Stars, and it's not complicated at all.

One other thing I forgot. I had an idea for Mr. Game & Watch--that since he doesn't really fit with anything (unless R.O.B. stays in, and they pair those two up), would be that he'd be the "Jack of all Trades", and could pair with anyone for a generic Tag-Team Final Smash where the other character gets a high score on an actual Game & Watch system, and by doing so, powers up Mr. Game & Watch, who...I don't know...fires off a giant laser or something creates a Subspace Explosion (apparently, he's made of Shadow Bugs!).

 

[SirKibble]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that. Yeah, Mario might have Luigi and Peach. The problem with doing that is, if you assume that SSB4 will have around 50 characters (at least), then you have to make 50-or-so regular Final Smashes, then about 25 Tag-Team Final Smashes, if each character only has one TTFS partner. So with two, now you're talking about making upwards of 100 different animations, once you've considered all the regular FSs, and all the potential TTFSs...

But again, even with only one partner for each character, you shouldn't worry about balance issues, since the whole system can be turned off by turning off Smash Balls. Sonic has an overpowered FS, but I don't complain every time my brother picks him against my killer Jigglypuff, I just turn off Final Smashes.

True, I hadn't taken into consideration we'll be adding a fair amount of characters. I just figure if there's only one you can Combo with, those of us who always play with all items on won't like it much if we're not good with both characters of a compatible team.

 

[Chief Mendez]

True, I hadn't taken into consideration we'll be adding a fair amount of characters. I just figure if there's only one you can Combo with, those of us who always play with all items on won't like it much if we're not good with both characters of a compatible team.

Well, in a Tag-Team match, you can pick two characters you like, then spend the third slot on a character soley for the purpose of 'Combo'ing with one of the other two. Or it could (and most certainly would, actually) end up influencing pairs of players to get good at certain match-ups, or...well...actually, screw it.

If you're so concerned about balance and fairness, again, you can turn it off. Just the Smash Ball, if you want. Or make a house rule banning Tag-Team Final Smashes, since any sort of "regulated" play won't allow items anyway. And if they do...well, it's a competitive scene, and they'll be prepared for it.

Anyway, I think my point is that...it really is a cool idea, and it might be a tad unfair...but we'd work with it until it fits our styles.

Also, it should be stated that these Tag-Team Final Smashes wouldn't really be that much more powerful than any given character's regular FS. So really, having them available would just be an extra option, not an overpowering advantage.

...

...I feel like I just gave a really long answer to a really simple complaint. Odd.

 

[SirKibble]

Well, in a Tag-Team match, you can pick two characters you like, then spend the third slot on a character soley for the purpose of 'Combo'ing with one of the other two. Or it could (and most certainly would, actually) end up influencing pairs of players to get good at certain match-ups, or...well...actually, screw it.

If you're so concerned about balance and fairness, again, you can turn it off. Just the Smash Ball, if you want. Or make a house rule banning Tag-Team Final Smashes, since any sort of "regulated" play won't allow items anyway. And if they do...well, it's a competitive scene, and they'll be prepared for it.

Anyway, I think my point is that...it really is a cool idea, and it might be a tad unfair...but we'd work with it until it fits our styles.

Also, it should be stated that these Tag-Team Final Smashes wouldn't really be that much more powerful than any given character's regular FS. So really, having them available would just be an extra option, not an overpowering advantage.

...

...I feel like I just gave a really long answer to a really simple complaint. Odd.

You know, you're probably right. It's likely it would be more like getting a different Final Smash than a super-powered one. And I'm sure it would be likely to promote teams learning to be good with certain characters. I should probably say I have nothing against the idea, I'm really just kind of playing devil's advocate to make sure we work everything out with the idea, since I really do think it would be awesome if done right. I love your suggestions for how it works, I'm just trying to be nit-picky and all, particularly for the sake of the casual community, since I know most people here already have the competitive scene in mind.

 

[Chief Mendez]

You know, you're probably right. It's likely it would be more like getting a different Final Smash than a super-powered one. And I'm sure it would be likely to promote teams learning to be good with certain characters. I should probably say I have nothing against the idea, I'm really just kind of playing devil's advocate to make sure we work everything out with the idea, since I really do think it would be awesome if done right. I love your suggestions for how it works, I'm just trying to be nit-picky and all, particularly for the sake of the casual community, since I know most people here already have the competitive scene in mind.

That's very big of you. It really helps the whole process out. ...Wait...is there a process? It bugs me that none of this'll probably end up happening. There was a thread just for new gameplay mechanics before Brawl was released, and there were some really hot ideas in there, and what does Sakurai give us? Not, feinting, air grabs, Final Counters, stealing, or carrying--he gives us f*cking tripping.

Anyway, as for the casual scene...as long as you provide the option to deactivate or otherwise negate whatever idea you're pitching, they're basically fine. I know when I play with friends and family, house rules have Snake, Pit and Dedede banned outside of handicapped matches, and Sonic is out too as long as Smash Balls are turned on. The Dragoon parts are always off, as are most of the items (the only ones that stay are Food, Banana Peels, Smoke Balls, Team Healers, Fans, Lip's Stick, Smash Balls, and Pitfalls--generally the least obtrusive and damaging items in the list). We also have a whole bunch of stages banned from all modes of play. So maybe we've killed, like, half the game, but you won't hear many complaints of unfairness out of our games.

 

[lumberheartwood]

I love this thread's innovative conglomeration of ideas Sakurai should have used for Brawl.

I blame Nintendo wanting an SSB game on a specific deadline for Brawl's final result. Had there been more time given, Brawl could have been the "brawl to end them all."

For SSB4, I would love to utilize a mode where players can control 2 characters. We play the first character we choose and when enough time has passed by like 2 minutes, we can use a combo attack combing the two and this also causes a switch-off, so now we play as the 2nd character. This continues until a victor is crowned. With this implemented, SSB4 would truly be bringing something innovative and fresh for the series. I don't think combo final smashes will be possible, looking at Nintendo's present technology, but maybe in the nearby future.

Continue with the good work everybody!! ^-^

 

[Chief Mendez]

I love this thread's innovative conglomeration of ideas Sakurai should have used for Brawl.

I blame Nintendo wanting an SSB game on a specific deadline for Brawl's final result. Had there been more time given, Brawl could have been the "brawl to end them all."

For SSB4, I would love to utilize a mode where players can control 2 characters. We play the first character we choose and when enough time has passed by like 2 minutes, we can use a combo attack combing the two and this also causes a switch-off, so now we play as the 2nd character. This continues until a victor is crowned. With this implemented, SSB4 would truly be bringing something innovative and fresh for the series. I don't think combo final smashes will be possible, looking at Nintendo's present technology, but maybe in the nearby future.

Continue with the good work everybody!! ^-^

Well...Brawl was delayed for about five months, so obviously Ninty wasn't too iron-fisted with the dev team. Plus, remember that the big things that everyone hates about Brawl are all deliberate changes (random f*cking tripping, no hitstun, slower speed, and so on), and not the absence of certain things (I think by now, complaining about the online abilities of a Nintendo game is pretty ridiculous).

Anyway, you should look over the past few posts. We've been discussing tag-teams for a while now. I don't think a time-dependent switch would be any fun. At all. It's already really annoying not having a always-on way to switch between Samus' forms...making that general attribute true across the board would be ludicrous.

Also, the only thing really holding back the inclusion of Tag-Team Final Smashes is disc storage space, especially if the next game continues the trend of adding roughly 10-15 new characters, and about that many more stages.

But I'm pretty positive the next generation of hardware will all run on Blu-Ray, or some equivalent, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Chidosengan]

SSB4 SHALL... no, WILL HAVE Captain Rainbow. It is inevitable.

http://kotaku.com/5023209/first-look-at-captain-rainbow

Prepare to lol.

 

[globiumz]

moar Mendez, MOAR! Your ideas are great.

BTW, what about a construction set? Would it be viable?