[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

^ Ice Climbers, 'nuff said.

 

[SkylerOcon]

^ Ice Climbers, 'nuff said.

They're retro. They don't count.

 

[DekuBoy]

Who wants a vote for the next revived NES character?
Here are the nominees:
Sukapon
Balloon Fighter
Little Mac
Tamagon
Duck Hunt Dog
Mike Jones

Vote!

 

[majora_787]

Samus clone



Samus clone



Note well known enough



Not well known enough



Also not well known enough.

<_< .........Okay wow.

Dark Samus =/= Samus clone.
Space Pirate = Snake clone if anything.
Rundas is pretty well known actually. You'd be surprised.
Sylux, yeah. Not too well known.
Omega Metroid, deffinatly not well known.

 

[paul1290]

Dark Samus wouldn't be a Samus clone. About the only thing that makes Dark Samus similar to Samus is the suit. Her attacks and powers are completely different.


Anyway, I've always wanted Bomberman to be in a Super Smash Bros. game simply because he'd fit in so well.

 

[gigasteve]

Samus clone

No. Never!

 

[C.Olimar788]

Though Dark Samus has a lot of potential for a unique moveset, I doubt she'd/he'd/it'd get one. Why? Well, let me quote Dark Samus' trophy:

"Dark Samus is identical to Samus in every way but color-- she even uses similar attacks."

If Sakurai can't even be bothered to give Ganondorf a unique moveset the very idea of Dark Samus not being a clone is preposterous.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I know Dark Samus has different powers than regular Samus--a shotgun-like spread cannon, a giant ball of blue death, energy quakes, and so on...but I think that, for all intents and purposes, that's what'd happen. And really, considering the quality of "clones" like Falco and Wolf, is that really such a bad thing? If Dark Samus had a completely different standard set of attacks than Samus, and all it's specials were changed, would there really be a problem with it?

The charge beam would move faster and farther, but be considerably smaller. The Screw Attack would be replaced with a ball of phazon that carries DS upwards, at the same trajectory of the Screw Attack, though it'd only hit once, for a large blow. The missiles would be replaced with "homing blobs" of Phazon, though maybe if you smash'd this attack, it'd fire that Spread Cannon.

And I don't care about the bombs, but you get what I'm saying yet? And of course, DS'd float, and generally be a lighter, faster Samus--who herself could be made heavier and stronger for SSB4.

There's also this:

Though Dark Samus has a lot of potential for a unique moveset, I doubt she'd/he'd/it'd get one. Why? Well, let me quote Dark Samus' trophy:

"Dark Samus is identical to Samus in every way but color-- she even uses similar attacks."

If Sakurai can't even be bothered to give Ganondorf a unique moveset the very idea of Dark Samus not being a clone is preposterous.

Well said.

 

[Lovely]

Theres a SSB4 Thread? I've been gone too long. O_o

Oh well. All I want to see is either a Panel De Pon chracter, a Golden Sun chracter, or another Metroid chracter.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Theres a SSB4 Thread? I've been gone too long. O_o

Oh well. All I want to see is either a Panel De Pon chracter, a Golden Sun chracter, or another Metroid chracter.

Why not all three? C'mon, shoot for the stars!

 

[SkylerOcon]

[CENTER

[/CENTER]

 

[Lovely]

Sorry SkylerOcon, I don't know a lot about F-Zero from the start. I'm just saying the characters games that I supported to be in Smash since Brawl. I haven't own an F-Zero game to know who is should be in.

 

[AnAardvark]

Things They Should Put In SSB4.

- TAKE OUT TRIPPING
- Megaman
- More Assist Trophies
- More Pokemon - PokeBalls
- Even Out The Character Roster

 

[SkylerOcon]

Neutral Aerial
Forward Aerial

Final Smash

 

[majora_787]

Things I want in SSB4?

FOUR reps for every series.

Retro: Pit ROB Pit and G+W. It works.

This means there could either be Megaman and Bomberman to fill up the third party slot, OR the BETTER option would be to fill it in with two random character slots. XD I kid I kid.

That would make a 14x4 roster...

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

56 Characters.

BEFORE you ask about olimar, we could add ONE third party and move Olimar to the last row on top of Snake Sonic and w/e is the third 3rd party.

That way nobody can complain about too few characters, and we still get a balanced roster.

 

[SkylerOcon]

[collapse=Can you see this?]This would be interesting for a set[/collapse]

 

[Chief Mendez]

- TAKE OUT TRIPPING
- Megaman
- More Assist Trophies
- More Pokemon - PokeBalls
- Even Out The Character Roster

I'm actually happy with the current number of Pokemon/ATs. There's roughly twenty or thirty in each, which allows for enough random chance without being ostentatious.

Also, what do you mean by "even out"?

FOUR reps for every series.

This isn't an SNK game...really, I think 50's alot to ask for already. Going over that is just plain crazy. What you've gotta' remember is that the more characters there are, the more difficult it is to balance them. I mean, in a game with only 39 characters, we have broken characters like Snake. Not to mention all the crap that's wrong with miscellaneous characters--cheap Final Smashes, useless Special moves, and so on.

You're also assuming that every franchise has four characters worth using. F-ZERO does not, honestly. Neither does Yoshi or Wario, and I really don't know about Donkey Kong.

This also wouldn't leave space for new franchises lie Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Animal Crossing, Custom Robo, and so on.

And there are characters in Brawl I could do without. I'm sure at least one or two will be cut for SSB4.

I don't know of that many people that complained about how few characters are in Brawl, and we almst definitely would not get a balanced roster.

 

[SirKibble]

I don't think so. In the original Super Mario Bros., Bowser was about four times the size of normal Mario. And personally, after the giant Bowser in Mario 64, I found it really, really weird at first to play as such a small Bowser in Melee.

It'd be weird, sure, but only for a few hours. We'd all get used to it, and all would be right with the world.

Yeah, I know Bowser was resized, but I never found it too strange when he was resized. Yeah, he was bigger before, but Smash was kind of a different approach for him. Now that Ridley's been in as a boss with a certain size, it would just feel a little strange. Although I'm beginning to think I'm the only person who'd feel that way. Lol.

Bomberman is not the shiznit.

NOOOOO!!!!! Sinner!!

Meta took a while to click with me, as did Olimar, Snake (especially Snake), Dedede, R.O.B., and Falco. But that's inconsequential.

I know what you're getting at with Ridley. Sure, he's the most prominent boss in the Metrod series, but...he really doesn't do much, right? He shows up once or twice, attacks Samus, and is defeated. No nefarious plots, no dastardly schemes, no dark machinations...and perhaps worst of all: very little personality. Heck, in the Prime series, he's nothing more than a tool used by the Space Pirates/Dark Samus.

...But still, Ridley for SSB4. He'd be fun to use, and Metroid needs more repz'.

I think that's the biggest problem with him for me. He's just a big space dragon. Nothing else is particularly significant about him, as far as personality and the other things you mentioned. Still, you are right, Metroid needs another representative, if not multiple. I just wish there was another prominent character besides Ridley who it could be... I'm warming up to the idea, but I'm still not totally sure I like it.

 

[strider43]

They need to remake go**** SSB64 more like

 

[MidnightAsaph]

<_< .........Okay wow.

Dark Samus =/= Samus clone.
Space Pirate = Snake clone if anything.
Rundas is pretty well known actually. You'd be surprised.
Sylux, yeah. Not too well known.
Omega Metroid, deffinatly not well known.

Dark Samus wouldn't be a Samus clone. About the only thing that makes Dark Samus similar to Samus is the suit. Her attacks and powers are completely different.

No. Never!

You all win. Dark Samus ftw.

Though Dark Samus has a lot of potential for a unique moveset, I doubt she'd/he'd/it'd get one. Why? Well, let me quote Dark Samus' trophy:

"Dark Samus is identical to Samus in every way but color-- she even uses similar attacks."

If Sakurai can't even be bothered to give Ganondorf a unique moveset the very idea of Dark Samus not being a clone is preposterous.

And that's why I absolutely dislike Sakurai. I mean, thanks for the game buddy, and you're a good man, but if you can't make the characters unique or BOTHER to play their games, don't make the next Smash.

(I swear he's biased).

I defended DS on a thread on NSider, god rest its soul, and I had a perfectly legit move list, and it was all good. I doubt I can say the same for poor Sakurai.

I'm for Dark Samus, but as a clone character, so I don't think it's realistic to expect Dark Samus to take the place of a totally new Metroid character. Ideally, we'd get Ridley and DS.

The Space Pirate...is just a generic enemy. It'd be good to see them show up in the new adventure mode, but not as actual characters.

The Hunters...are an odd bunch. Of the eight there are, I think we can cross out Spire, Trace, and Weevil(sp?) for total, blatant generic-ness. Noxus, Sylux, and Kanden are okay (Sylux probably has the best chance of those three). The Corruption hunters are all much cooler than the original five in my opinion, and of them, Rundas is probably the best choice (plus, I'd DIE for Christpher Sabat to be associated in some way with Smash Bros.).

But really, I think all of them are better suited for ATs. Hunters DS was a terrible Metroid game (great Quake-style multiplayer, but horrible single-player), and Corruption's hunters are all pretty small-scale villains. That's my stance on that.

Finally, isn't the Omega Metroid the thing you fight at the end of Fusion? If so...all I can say is, "wtf?".

More Win. That's what I've said since the beginning of the...beginning.

Samus clone.

If you played the game, you need to play it again. If you haven't played the game, don't come here again. If you haven't played the game but say you have, best of luck in your life...and get out.

I know Dark Samus has different powers than regular Samus--a shotgun-like spread cannon, a giant ball of blue death, energy quakes, and so on...but I think that, for all intents and purposes, that's what'd happen. And really, considering the quality of "clones" like Falco and Wolf, is that really such a bad thing? If Dark Samus had a completely different standard set of attacks than Samus, and all it's specials were changed, would there really be a problem with it?

The charge beam would move faster and farther, but be considerably smaller. The Screw Attack would be replaced with a ball of phazon that carries DS upwards, at the same trajectory of the Screw Attack, though it'd only hit once, for a large blow. The missiles would be replaced with "homing blobs" of Phazon, though maybe if you smash'd this attack, it'd fire that Spread Cannon.

And I don't care about the bombs, but you get what I'm saying yet? And of course, DS'd float, and generally be a lighter, faster Samus--who herself could be made heavier and stronger for SSB4.

Well said.

So, on you're side, you're seeing another "Wolf"? That's not bad, considering Wolf is my main. Don't confuse what I'm saying though. We'll see similar concepts between Dark&Regular Samus, but altered in a way that will make them unique. I have to say, it would not be bad.

You sounded like me once. DS would float, etc, etc, etc. And, IMO, DS could have a vastly different moveset. I made one once, and it was great, nothing like Samus'.





Who started this debate? Was it me? I must have said something before, because I'm obsessed with DS.

Lastly: There's no phazon in this game, thus, it fails.

 

[Chief Mendez]

And that's why I absolutely dislike Sakurai. I mean, thanks for the game buddy, and you're a good man, but if you can't make the characters unique or BOTHER to play their games, don't make the next Smash.

I'm sure he has played alot of the games represented here, but you can't expect the guy to play every game, especially when he's busy making such huge, encompassing games as Smash Bros.. And besides, what if he for whatever reason, doesn't like FPS games?

(I swear he's biased).

Probably. He did make Kirby.

You sounded like me once. DS would float, etc, etc, etc. And, IMO, DS could have a vastly different moveset. I made one once, and it was great, nothing like Samus'.

Yeah, it's true. I have a more unique 'set myself, but what I'm saying is that it's quite unlikely for whoever makes SSB4 to devote all the time and resources needed to make a totally original character to what is (in the actual Metroid games, no less) a clone of Samus.

I really think a Brawl-level clone is what we'd get, if we do actually get DS at all.

 

[majora_787]

I think that's the biggest problem with him for me. He's just a big space dragon. Nothing else is particularly significant about him

Yes, because yknow ridley has no significance in the metroid series. He's just the leader of the space pirates and the entire reason Samus is even a bounty hunter, not significant at all. ESPECIALLY when you compare him to bomber man, a freak obsessed with explosives who has a TV for a head and walks around in tight pants. I can totally see how you can make the connection.

Even ROY and DR MARIO are more important to ridley, even though they were just there for the sake of advertisement and maybe a bit of an extra. /worldclasssarcasm

.......Please explain to me WHY Ridley is insignificant again?

 

[peeup]

One major thing that I've wanted since ssb64 is the option to choose which pokemon/characters come out of assist tropies/pokeballs. Obviouisly, you wouldn't be able to only make it mew or other pokemon that give stickers/CDs/tropies.

Characters that I want are Aipom, Conker, Cloud, Sora, Rosalina Knuckles, Funky Kong (he is on the Flame Runner), and Majora Link (like PT, you can be deku, zora, or goron. However, they all have the same moveset *save for a few changes on their special moves*, but some characters do better at things than others. For example, zora link has a better boomarang, goron link has a better bomb, and deku link has a better recovery. nuetral special would be mask change.)

A Mario Galexy stage, more stages that could be nuetral, ,and ssb64 stages like Congo Jungle, Saffron City, and Peach's castle.

 

[SirKibble]

Yes, because yknow ridley has no significance in the metroid series. He's just the leader of the space pirates and the entire reason Samus is even a bounty hunter, not significant at all. ESPECIALLY when you compare him to bomber man, a freak obsessed with explosives who has a TV for a head and walks around in tight pants. I can totally see how you can make the connection.

Even ROY and DR MARIO are more important to ridley, even though they were just there for the sake of advertisement and maybe a bit of an extra. /worldclasssarcasm

.......Please explain to me WHY Ridley is insignificant again?

Do you enjoy manipulating people's words by cutting off the back half of their sentences?

I never said he was flat out insignificant. If you'll actually read what I posted, I'll be happy to have an intelligent discussion with you. Until that time, I'm afraid it's impossible.

And before you really go off, note that it's just an opinion. Me disliking Ridley won't keep him out of the game. It'll all be okay.

 

[SkylerOcon]

“Oh God…” I said those words inaudibly to myself as I keeled over once more, throwing up into the toilet bowl. Being sick was hardly entertaining, and tonight, it was the epitome of bad timing.

I was begging myself to stop throwing up. A man sitting next to the toilet in dress pants and a nice shirt was certainly not a pleasant sight. He had either gone somewhere nice and had gotten sick from it, or was planning to go somewhere nice and had his evening plans ruined.

I knew that I had to get up and explain why I wouldn’t show up for my date tonight. My girlfriend for three years had probably already arrived at Cattleman’s, a steak restaurant, and she would not be pleased to have to turn around and leave after driving across town to get there. I gripped the side of the wall and weakly pulled myself upward; I proceeded to stumble out of the bathroom and to my telephone.

It was more muscle memory than actual thinking when I mashed my fingers into the telephone keys. I had called my girlfriend so many times that I doubted even the worst case of amnesia could force it out of my brain. The phone rang a few times until a familiar voice answered.

“James? Where are you? You’re late!” My girlfriend’s tone was a mix of worry and frustration. Despite being only ten minutes late, it would take me another forty or fifty minutes to drive to the steakhouse.

I gave a harsh cough and then forced out a reply. “I’m sorry, Lexi! I got sick. I think it’s that damn salmon my father made when I went over to my parents’ house last night. I know; that’s three dates now that I’ve had to cancel on now. I’m so, so sorry. I really am.” I elongated the ‘ill’ sound in really for emphasis. “Please don’t be mad at me.”

Lexi sighed. “First, you get hung up with work. Then, your car breaks down, and now you’re sick? You either have shitty luck, or you’re a terrible liar.”

“Lexi! Why would I lie to you? All of that really happened!” I was starting to get upset. The extra stress wouldn’t be good for my voice.

“Like the police checkpoint on 5th?”

In my head, I was cursed at myself. I still can’t believe I had lied about that. About six months after I started dating Lexi, I blew off going to see a show with her (moneywise, it wasn’t that bad – the tickets were only about twenty dollars) and instead went to a bar. They didn’t let people in after they were late at the particular theatre, so I thought I could get away with saying there was a police checkpoint on 5th Avenue which held me up and caused me to be late.

I found out later, however, that Lexi stopped off to buy some flowers at the florist’s shop on 5th, which was the closest to her house, before going to the theatre. Naturally, it didn’t take her long to figure out that the police checkpoint scenario was merely a ruse.

“That was one time, okay! And I almost lost you because of that. I had to stand out in front of your house in the freezing cold of night and wait for you to finally give in and talk to me. For three hours. It wasn’t fun, I assure you,” I said sarcastically, which I realized quickly was not a wise choice; my words came out far too harshly.

“You’re a real piece of work James, you know that?”

“I didn’t mean for that to come out that way, alright?” Suddenly, I felt a fierce twist in my stomach, and my moved as fast as my body would allow me towards the bathroom. Dropping to my knees, more vomit forced its’ way up my throat. I hardly heard what my girlfriend was saying before I dropped the phone and threw up (she ceased talking once this happened).

There was a slight pause while I grabbed at my wash cloth and used it to wipe my mouth. I walked back out into the main room and picked up the phone.

“Oh, come on James! There is no way that could have sounded more fake!”

I ran my fingers through my hair. “Lexi, what are you talking about? Why would I fake being sick? I wanted to go tonight!”

“Then why didn’t you call before?”

“I was too sick! I was keeled over the toilet for an hour and a half before I was able to get up and call you.”

“Your cell phone? I know you called from the apartment’s phone.”

“I left it on the table charging.” I gave a weak motion towards the table, despite nobody being in the room.

“You sure seem to leave it on the table a lot…” Lexi’s voice seethed with disbelief. “Half the time I try calling you on it, you check your messages later only to say you left it on the table charging.”

“It’s the phone model! I couldn’t afford a new one.”

“Not even a cheap twenty dollar one?”

“After I spent one hundred on this phone?”

“Whatever, James. I think a one hundred dollar phone could hold a charge for longer than four hours.”

“I don’t know why the phone can’t hold a charge either. It’s a shitty model. I should’ve gotten a better one. And it’s five hours, not four.”

Lexi sighed. “I don’t care how long your goddamn phone can hold a charge for. Seriously James, after this, the bar, and that party with Eric, I just don’t know about it anymore.”

“It?”

“Us! It is us.”

“The party with Eric was his bachelor party. The guy’s my best friend. Of course I was going to go!”

“And what about that whore giving you a lap dance?”

“It was a bachelor party. So what, I went a little too far. What, do you think I slept with the girl?” The last sentence was halfway a joke and halfway serious.

“Did you?”

“Alright, now you’re just being unfair. You know I said that jokingly.” My head involuntarily shook in disbelief.

“Well? What if you did?” Lexi’s voice was full of stress. After a second she calmed down. “Look, James, I want to believe you. It’s just that all this stuff keeps happening, and I don’t know if I should believe it anymore.”

“It was three things!”

“And what do you have to say about these three things?”

I began to answer, but there was another tug at my stomach. I ran back into the bathroom and threw up once more. I stumbled back out into the hallway.

“Oh, great. More fake puking. Fuck you, James.”

“Lexi, why do you think I’m faking being sick?” I clutched my hair with my free hand and squeezed.

“Why did you lie about the police checkpoint and go to the bar?”

“That’s unfair and you know it. I’ve already apologized and admitted my mistake there!”
“Well you lied to me then and I think you’re lying to me now.”

“Why would I lie to you?” I slid my face into the palm of my free hand, and began to rub my temples.

“You certainly did then, and you certainly are now. Goodbye, James.”

I glanced down at the small, black velvet case on my coffee table. I remained silent.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I'm sure he has played alot of the games represented here, but you can't expect the guy to play every game, especially when he's busy making such huge, encompassing games as Smash Bros.. And besides, what if he for whatever reason, doesn't like FPS games?

Hire me, I'll help.

Probably. He did make Kirby.

Friends of mine were wondering why the Kirby music happened to be so good (but imo, it's not that great to me. My tastes lie in Zelda and Metroid, my two favorite franchises). Metaknight is also fighting for the best spot (and currently, Kirby is irritating in FFAs with his suicide).

Yeah, it's true. I have a more unique 'set myself, but what I'm saying is that it's quite unlikely for whoever makes SSB4 to devote all the time and resources needed to make a totally original character to what is (in the actual Metroid games, no less) a clone of Samus.

And I understand that. I know. What I don't understand however, is that he has so many resources. I hardly consider the internet one, as just about the hundreds of thousands of millions of people all over the world have their ideas. Of course, this isn't a democracy. We can't all have our way. I'm just saying that, with the resources he has, why would he just make stuff up from the top of his head (or however way he gets his ideas). If he saw your or my thread, it would be like striking gold in a mine (I know he would never find those threads though, and if he did, it would be by complete, dumb luck).

In the end, he has the resources, THE PEOPLE (millions of gamers as well as other developers and designers). He has all this help, so why close himself? (Keep in mind this is mostly guesswork, since I can't know how exactly he does what he does; the outcome of the game clearly outlines how far he's gone as far as resources go).

I really think a Brawl-level clone is what we'd get, if we do actually get DS at all.

Which is sad to me, but, again, that's why he needs to hire me (joking, but hire someone, please). Some of the concepts gamers have come up with are just great. Why not use that to your advantage? We all could use inspiration for what we do.

 

[WolfCypher]

Okay... Well...

In this thread we get a lot of people saying 'Sakurai sucks he's so stupid I hate him'.

Well... I would like to remind you of 'teh bestest game evarz' called melee. Yeah. Guess who had a major part in that? Sakurai. SSB64? Sakurai again! I can't trust him to make DS a unique character because he messed up so bad with movesets in Brawl, but everybody who insults him is just being stupid.

Yeah. Melee. That was him. Shut the hell up.

No matter how much good a person does, one little bad and people go ape ****.

Look at Sam Raimi with SM3. People say he should never do another Spider-Man movie again because SM3 sucked (and it did), but so quickly do people forget the awesomeness that he brought us with SM1 & 2.

Same with SSB. Of course, I love Brawl. Brawl > Melee. I see nothing wrong with Brawl and hope that the next game is Sakurai directed.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Okay... Well...

In this thread we get a lot of people saying 'Sakurai sucks he's so stupid I hate him'.

Well... I would like to remind you of 'teh bestest game evarz' called melee. Yeah. Guess who had a major part in that? Sakurai. SSB64? Sakurai again! I can't trust him to make DS a unique character because he messed up so bad with movesets in Brawl, but everybody who insults him is just being stupid.

Yeah. Melee. That was him. Shut the hell up.

Depends on who you're arguing with. I never said Sakurai was an idiot. He's just like my old teacher. The guy was nice, good-hearted and a great guy: he should never teach again.

People keep bringing up "he gave you Brawl, stop complaining". No, actually, Nintendo gave us Brawl, Sakurai just made it. How do we know that someone else could have done a thousand times a better job? And I'm not saying that he made a bad game, I like Brawl. And anyway, this has nothing to do with my problem with you.

You said Dark Samus = Samus.

Not true. It's been proven in more than a hundred threads over the internet (assumption/exaggeration), but we only need one to know that DS =/= Samus. The two would not only mimic the Wolf/Fox difference, but it would even surpass that difference and make DS completely original (save for appearance). My problem with you, my friend, is that you either assumed that DS would be a clone of Samus or lacked the obvious knowledge from the game to understand she wouldn't be.


I rest my case. You're welcome to argue with anything including Sakurai, but my beef with you is settled (as far as I'm concerned).

 

[Chief Mendez]

Which is sad to me, but, again, that's why he needs to hire me (joking, but hire someone, please). Some of the concepts gamers have come up with are just great. Why not use that to your advantage? We all could use inspiration for what we do.

Alright, pardon me if I'm wrong, but you're whole argument is that Sakurai didn't go out into the great wild internet and look for idea or inspiration for movesets?

First of all, we don't know that he didn't. He very well might have. And I'm sure he did all his research before hand, and got all the advisement he needed to make every franchise in Brawl feel genuine, which--coincidence?--they do. The people who made the original games are in the credits for Smash Bros., which should tell you that Sakurai knew what he was working with about as intimately as anyone could.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I have played the games. It's just pretty much certain that DS will be a clone of Samus. As Chief Mendez pointed out, her trophy says she fights the same.

Another reason to support this. Falco hates the Landmaster. But, what's his final smash? A landmaster. That's the complete opposite of Falco.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I have played the games. It's just pretty much certain that DS will be a clone of Samus. As Chief Mendez pointed out, her trophy says she fights the same.

Another reason to support this. Falco hates the Landmaster. But, what's his final smash? A landmaster. That's the complete opposite of Falco.

 

[majora_787]

I'll be happy to have an intelligent discussion with you. Until that time, I'm afraid it's impossible.

Yes, I know. It's impossible to do ANYTHING intelligent when a bomberman fan is involved.

ANYWAY back on topic.

53 people is a lot yeah, but I think the number of reps per series should be better balanced. Metroid, F-Zero and DK all have a pathetic number of reps, while Pokemon technically has 6, and Zelda has 5.

Consider the 14x4 roster my draft for a better balance and a more organized roster.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Yes, I know. It's impossible to do ANYTHING intelligent when a bomberman fan is involved.

ANYWAY back on topic.

53 people is a lot yeah, but I think the number of reps per series should be better balanced. Metroid, F-Zero and DK all have a pathetic number of reps, while Pokemon technically has 6, and Zelda has 5.

Consider the 14x4 roster my draft for a better balance and a more organized roster.

i disagree. Although i think dk and metroid definetly deserve more reps i dont think all series should have the same (or very close) amount of reps. The smaller series such as wario, f-zero and yoshi should have less reps. As they do. I think that pokemon is nintendo's best selling handheld series so i do believe they deserve their reps. Mario and zelda are self explanitory. the only series i think are due for more reps are dk metroid and mabye fire emblem.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Alright, pardon me if I'm wrong, but you're whole argument is that Sakurai didn't go out into the great wild internet and look for idea or inspiration for movesets?

My argument with you is that he did not include original moves from the original games. Internet was just an example of a large variety of resources he could have used.

First of all, we don't know that he didn't. He very well might have. And I'm sure he did all his research before hand, and got all the advisement he needed to make every franchise in Brawl feel genuine, which--coincidence?--they do. The people who made the original games are in the credits for Smash Bros., which should tell you that Sakurai knew what he was working with about as intimately as anyone could.

I said that. I pointed out that most of what I said was guesswork since I can't KNOW how he did anything. However, I did say that the outcome of his work obviously points out that he did not stick to the games as much as he could have. Since when does Ganondorf dash forward and grab someone, following through with a little explosion (just an example)? Not that it's bad or Sakurai should be crucified for it, but why not use something from the games?

And as Skyler pointed out, Falco doesn't like Landmasters. Why make him use one? (Though, Falco does say he 'prefers the air' when he uses the FS. I, however, am not sure if he means he'd rather use an arwing or rather have the landmaster with greater jumps). You said on DS' assist trophy it said that she fought exactly like Samus. You and I both know we've made very unique moves for her, and I took my ideas from the actual games. However, Sakurai seems to think that she's similar (they are, but not enough so that she can't have a unique move list).

What it comes down to is that Sakurai could have made them more original, but I am more so arguing for DS. She could have been in the game and had an original move set that differed greatly from Samus', but she was not. If he had the resources before him, why didn't he use them? Not only that, but the ONLY Metroid character in the game was SAMUS. Seriously, does he hate the Metroid series and favor his Kirby? At this point, I'm BEGGING for another Metroid character, even if it's just a space pirate. DS and Ridley were the biggest characters, yet they didn't even make it in.

Something's wrong here.

I have played the games. It's just pretty much certain that DS will be a clone of Samus. As Chief Mendez pointed out, her trophy says she fights the same.

Another reason to support this. Falco hates the Landmaster. But, what's his final smash? A landmaster. That's the complete opposite of Falco.

Because the trophy said anything hardly matters. The trophy in Melee, I think, for Sheik said 'it' was a (insert either gender, don't remember exactly what it was). Yet, isn't it one of the BIGGEST DEBATES on the internet concerning Zelda? Is Sheik a male or female? Who knows, but considering that the trophy said something like it was fact clearly depreciates the value of whether Dark and regular Samus fight similarly or not. The trophies = nothing.

I highly doubt you played the game if you can't think of a unique moveset. Either that or you're very uncreative. (I mean no offense, but take it anyway you want to).

I don't even know what you're trying to say when you include the falco/landmaster bit.

 

[SirKibble]

Yes, I know. It's impossible to do ANYTHING intelligent when a bomberman fan is involved.

Must you always bring up Bomberman while I'm specifically talking about Ridley? I wasn't even talking about Bomberman, but since you seem so deeply determined to make me, I suppose I will.

Bomberman is the main protagonist in his games, not to mention the title character. Now, all this, of course, means nothing if the games themselves don't hold some significance to the world of gaming. But with being featured in 60+ games and more still coming, not to mention his place as one of gaming's classic heroes, I think it's safe to say the guy's significant. And out of curiosity, have you ever played a Bomberman game?

Okay, enough on that. Now let's talk about Ridley, who I was talking about in the first place.

Ridley is, yes, a very prominent character in the Metroid series. He's appeared in a great many of the games, and may well be considered a sort of rival to Samus. As Metroid is lacking in Smash Bros. representation, he may be the best choice for inclusion. However, what really bothers ME about Ridley is that he doesn't really show the character that most of the rest of the Smash roster does. Let's look at some possibly similar characters. Other baddies, like Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede, have distinct and recognizable personalities, that players are familiar with. Now, maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't played a whole lot of Metroid games, only one or two, but I've never seen Ridley show much of a personality. And really, his plot doesn't go very deep, that I'm aware of. Samus killed his parents, so he wants to kill her. Yay. Great. But he just doesn't have that personality/character that I look for in my characters.

I'd love to be corrected, mind you. I'd love to see someone prove to me that I'm wrong here. Examples of Ridley's plot going real deep or of him showing extensive personality would be lovely.

Anyway... As I said, this is all opinion. This is why I dislike Ridley. You can (and obviously do) have a different opinion. This is mine. All I'm asking is that you respect it and try to see my point, not that you agree with me. I see the reasoning for Ridley to be included, and I recognize and understand it. This is simply my take on it. Thank you.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Ridley is, yes, a very prominent character in the Metroid series. He's appeared in a great many of the games, and may well be considered a sort of rival to Samus. As Metroid is lacking in Smash Bros. representation, he may be the best choice for inclusion. However, what really bothers ME about Ridley is that he doesn't really show the character that most of the rest of the Smash roster does. Let's look at some possibly similar characters. Other baddies, like Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede, have distinct and recognizable personalities, that players are familiar with. Now, maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't played a whole lot of Metroid games, only one or two, but I've never seen Ridley show much of a personality. And really, his plot doesn't go very deep, that I'm aware of. Samus killed his parents, so he wants to kill her. Yay. Great. But he just doesn't have that personality/character that I look for in my characters.

I'd love to be corrected, mind you. I'd love to see someone prove to me that I'm wrong here. Examples of Ridley's plot going real deep or of him showing extensive personality would be lovely.

Anyway... As I said, this is all opinion. This is why I dislike Ridley. You can (and obviously do) have a different opinion. This is mine. All I'm asking is that you respect it and try to see my point, not that you agree with me. I see the reasoning for Ridley to be included, and I recognize and understand it. This is simply my take on it. Thank you.

So his depth disgusts you, and you wonder why he's important and deserving? If that's the case, I laugh.

Don't worry, I'm not arguing with you, I'm kind of agreeing. I get why you don't want him, but it doesn't matter. As far as I know, he doesn't have much plot to him, but you have to think for a bit: who the hell has plot? As I know, Samus, in MP, just does things when something happens. It's almost as bad as a reckless shooter. If she can be in, so should Ridley. And then, there's the plot thing. Who needs plot anyway? Ridley's cool. That's all we need.

(I think it would be weird to play as him though. X_x)

But I completely understand your opinion and I support it. I only want him in because Smash lacks some serious MP representation, as you said (And as I said in one of my other posts above). I'm no professor on Metroid (more so on MP), so I can't tell you anything about Ridley other than the obvious. He's big. He's angry.

Last Note: I think he has personality though. You can tell just by his insane, psychotic look when he attacks you on MP: this dude's one psychotic SOB. (That makes him cooler, imo).

 

[Chief Mendez]

WARNING! This is a WALL O' TEXT! Proceed at own caution!

My argument with you is that he did not include original moves from the original games. Internet was just an example of a large variety of resources he could have used.

Okay, I stand corrected.

Since when does Ganondorf dash forward and grab someone, following through with a little explosion (just an example)? Not that it's bad or Sakurai should be crucified for it, but why not use something from the games?

Two things here. 1) Ganon's a clone, so it's sort of a moot point (why he's a clone is a total mystery, and also a separate argument...not that there's much to argue about). 2) What does Ganondorf really do in his games that could be easily translated into recognizable form for Smash Bros? Pretty much all he does is throw balls of energy at you, and attack you with a weapon, right?

And as Skyler pointed out, Falco doesn't like Landmasters. Why make him use one?

Again, he's a clone. It's pretty obvious by this point that the team lacked (again...grr) the time to do every character like they wanted to (y'know all those "hidden hack" characters, right?). So he's a clone, and therefore all his special moves are only slightly tweaked copies of Fox's, which include the Final Smash. Like you said, Falco prefers the air, which is probably Sakurai's way of telling the player that he's aware Falco should be in an Arwing. Problem solved!

You and I both know we've made very unique moves for her, and I took my ideas from the actual games. However, Sakurai seems to think that she's similar (they are, but not enough so that she can't have a unique move list).

We don't really know what Sakurai thinks of Dark Samus. The only..."clue" we have is it's trophy, which he probably didn't write the description for anyway.

What it comes down to is that Sakurai could have made them more original, but I am more so arguing for DS. She could have been in the game and had an original move set that differed greatly from Samus', but she was not. If he had the resources before him, why didn't he use them? Not only that, but the ONLY Metroid character in the game was SAMUS. Seriously, does he hate the Metroid series and favor his Kirby? At this point, I'm BEGGING for another Metroid character, even if it's just a space pirate. DS and Ridley were the biggest characters, yet they didn't even make it in.

Something's wrong here.

Again, a few things on this:

1) Metroid is pretty much Ninty's most unpopular series over in Japan. This probably has something to do with it. Also, Sakurai stuck with Super Metroid (a Japanese game) for inspiration on Samus' Brawl model rather than the more recent (and American game) Prime model. This is the only instance of a character looking like an older version of themselves in the entire game.

2) Again I point to the time constraints. Apparently, the total roster was confirmed way back in '06, near the beginning of development. And yet still some characters were cut from that roster. So it could always just be a matter of coincidence.

I agree with you though--DS and Ridley for SSB4. But, given #1 above (the anti-American conspiracy theory), I think the most we can hope for--if you want to see both DS and Ridley--is a Brawl-level clone of Samus, regardless of potential.

Because the trophy said anything hardly matters. The trophy in Melee, I think, for Sheik said 'it' was a (insert either gender, don't remember exactly what it was). Yet, isn't it one of the BIGGEST DEBATES on the internet concerning Zelda? Is Sheik a male or female? Who knows, but considering that the trophy said something like it was fact clearly depreciates the value of whether Dark and regular Samus fight similarly or not. The trophies = nothing.

I highly doubt you played the game if you can't think of a unique moveset. Either that or you're very uncreative. (I mean no offense, but take it anyway you want to).

I don't even know what you're trying to say when you include the falco/landmaster bit.[/QUOTE]

As Chief Mendez pointed out, her trophy says she fights the same.

I didn't say that, by the way. It was someone else, and I just don't wanna' take credit for anything that's not mine.

i disagree. Although i think dk and metroid definetly deserve more reps i dont think all series should have the same (or very close) amount of reps. The smaller series such as wario, f-zero and yoshi should have less reps. As they do. I think that pokemon is nintendo's best selling handheld series so i do believe they deserve their reps. Mario and zelda are self explanitory. the only series i think are due for more reps are dk metroid and mabye fire emblem.

You are correct, sir. So series like Zelda can get another two characters for SSB4, F-ZERO should only get one (Goroh or Black Shadow, methinks).

It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

But with 60+ games and more still coming...

Bomberman's been in 60 games!?

Samus killed his parents, so he wants to kill her.

Reverse that, and you've got it.

I'd love to be corrected, mind you. I'd love to see someone prove to me that I'm wrong here. Examples of Ridley's plot going real deep or of him showing extensive personality would be lovely.

Well...he kidnapped the last Metroid from the GF in Super Metroid, and brought it back to Zebes.

And just some food for thought:

One of Samus's recurring adversaries, Ridley, is a high-ranking Space Pirate. Ridley shares features with both the pterodactyl and the mythical European dragon.[1][5] Ridley's exact rank is unknown, with some sources referring to him as the general of the Space Pirates.[3] Ridley directly led the Space Pirate attack on Samus's home colony of K-2L, which inevitably led to the deaths of all the colonists including Samus's mother and father.[10][5] Samus has since had a personal vendetta against Ridley because of this, coupled with her objective to rid the galaxy of Space Pirates.[1][5] Over the course of her adventures, Samus confronts several different incarnations of Ridley in the series, such as Meta Ridley from Metroid Prime, Omega Ridley from Metroid Prime 3, and also a X parasite clone in Metroid Fusion and a mechanized version in Zero Mission.[5][11] Ridley appears in the introduction and as a trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee. In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, both he and Meta Ridley are boss characters in the Subspace Emissary.

 

[SirKibble]

So his depth disgusts you, and you wonder why he's important and deserving? If that's the case, I laugh.

Don't worry, I'm not arguing with you, I'm kind of agreeing. I get why you don't want him, but it doesn't matter. As far as I know, he doesn't have much plot to him, but you have to think for a bit: who the hell has plot? As I know, Samus, in MP, just does things when something happens. It's almost as bad as a reckless shooter. If she can be in, so should Ridley. And then, there's the plot thing. Who needs plot anyway? Ridley's cool. That's all we need.

(I think it would be weird to play as him though. X_x)

But I completely understand your opinion and I support it. I only want him in because Smash lacks some serious MP representation, as you said (And as I said in one of my other posts above). I'm no professor on Metroid (more so on MP), so I can't tell you anything about Ridley other than the obvious. He's big. He's angry.

Last Note: I think he has personality though. You can tell just by his insane, psychotic look when he attacks you on MP: this dude's one psychotic SOB. (That makes him cooler, imo).

See, I get what you're saying. And admittedly, it's kind of subjective. To you, Ridley's psychopathic frenzy is a obviously a lot more personality than it is to me.

As far as the whole plot and personality thing goes, though, it's partly just me. Yeah, Ridley's cool, and he'd be an interesting character, but it's just something that bugs me about him. Like you said, a lot of other characters have lacked plot, but they still worked out all right (particularly some of the retro bunch).

I realize he's almost definitely the next most deserving representative from Metroid. I just don't particularly like the idea of him in Smash. And like I said, I've been warming up to the idea, but I'm hardly a Ridley fan yet, so I'm really at a point where I'm questioning just about everything about him, partially to see whether or not I do feel like supporting him.

Bomberman's been in 60 games!?

Indeed he has. Keep in mind, that counts Japan-only games and such, as well as spin-offs like Wario Blast, and some with different (and somewhat strange) names, like Atomic Punk. Wikipedia's got a nice list of them.

Reverse that, and you've got it.

Oops. My bad. Like I said, I'm not a Metroid expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Well...he kidnapped the last Metroid from the GF in Super Metroid, and brought it back to Zebes.

And just some food for thought:

Yeah, I actually (surprisingly) did know a good chunk of that information, but I wasn't aware that he was actually so highly ranked among Space Pirates. I guess that makes him a bit more storyline significant, given how big a problem Samus has with them.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Two things here. 1) Ganon's a clone, so it's sort of a moot point (why he's a clone is a total mystery, and also a separate argument...not that there's much to argue about). 2) What does Ganondorf really do in his games that could be easily translated into recognizable form for Smash Bros? Pretty much all he does is throw balls of energy at you, and attack you with a weapon, right?

Well, to answer that, I would have to get into some serious Zelda gameplayage to figure out EVERYTHING. But if you remember Ganondorf's ONE taunt that is a clear "DER" message from Sakurai, he could use his sword.

Play Twilight princess? He had several crazy sword attacks in the last battle that could easily be translated into kick*** moves. Just watch the battle, and you'll see some unique styles.

But with a sword, he's got enough. If you saw the ideas I've had in my mind for our great warlock, your head would explode. I had an idea for a FS (one that I liked much less than the "Ganon" thing--didn't turn out to be so amazing).

But why he's a clone kind of confuses me. Lastly, though, if you wanted, I could play some Twilight can get back to you on a movelist.

Again, he's a clone. It's pretty obvious by this point that the team lacked (again...grr) the time to do every character like they wanted to (y'know all those "hidden hack" characters, right?). So he's a clone, and therefore all his special moves are only slightly tweaked copies of Fox's, which include the Final Smash. Like you said, Falco prefers the air, which is probably Sakurai's way of telling the player that he's aware Falco should be in an Arwing. Problem solved!

So, basically...we have no idea?

You said it, but hardly had it as an answer: time constraints. They probably screw everything over. Though, I'm not exactly sure. I mean, if you give me a day, I could fix ALL the clones easily, and even make new characters. I guess part of my reason for this debate is that if I can do it, why can't they?

We don't really know what Sakurai thinks of Dark Samus. The only..."clue" we have is it's trophy, which he probably didn't write the description for anyway.

I can agree with that. He made the game; that doesn't mean he did everything.

Again, a few things on this:

1) Metroid is pretty much Ninty's most unpopular series over in Japan. This probably has something to do with it. Also, Sakurai stuck with Super Metroid (a Japanese game) for inspiration on Samus' Brawl model rather than the more recent (and American game) Prime model. This is the only instance of a character looking like an older version of themselves in the entire game.

How sad. I mean, for me at least. Metroid is probably my favorite (though I can't say I'm a veteran since the old SNES days. I'm strictly new since Metroid Prime, excluding hand-held games.

2) Again I point to the time constraints. Apparently, the total roster was confirmed way back in '06, near the beginning of development. And yet still some characters were cut from that roster. So it could always just be a matter of coincidence.

Are you saying my favorite character Dark Samus may have been cut? I'll go cry, later. *walks away*

In all serious, SSB4 should have more time for the game so we can get out everything we want. For Sakurai, I'll say this: you can only do so much with what you have. He may just as well have been trying to to include Ridley and DS. Although, I would find that if that were true, he would work on those two and cut a character from another series, but that's another argument/conversation.

I agree with you though--DS and Ridley for SSB4. But, given #1 above (the anti-American conspiracy theory), I think the most we can hope for--if you want to see both DS and Ridley--is a Brawl-level clone of Samus, regardless of potential.

I agree with that. Just because we use the word potential does not mean the outcome will be that. We get what we can be given, and if Sakurai doesn't have the time or the labor required, we deal with it and play the game. I don't know about you, but as far as I can tell, you're mature: I play as Wolf, and by god, he's amazing. I'm very well contended, thank you. (But please, can we get some phazon in the next game...? Either DS or a hyper beam, either will work.)



See, I get what you're saying. And admittedly, it's kind of subjective. To you, Ridley's psychopathic frenzy is a obviously a lot more personality than it is to me.

As far as the whole plot and personality thing goes, though, it's partly just me. Yeah, Ridley's cool, and he'd be an interesting character, but it's just something that bugs me about him. Like you said, a lot of other characters have lacked plot, but they still worked out all right (particularly some of the retro bunch).

I realize he's almost definitely the next most deserving representative from Metroid. I just don't particularly like the idea of him in Smash. And like I said, I've been warming up to the idea, but I'm hardly a Ridley fan yet, so I'm really at a point where I'm questioning just about everything about him, partially to see whether or not I do feel like supporting him.

And that's called opinion, no questions asked. Again, I'm not arguing. You have the right to be entitled an opinion. That's absolutely fine. If you don't like him, that's absolutely fine. At least you're not hating on him with this: 'lololololololloolool Hees 2 big!' If you did that, I would have to laugh.


The two of you are mature. I raise a hat. Good day.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Just so you guys know, this is the chronology of the Metroid series:

Metroid/Metroid: Zero Mission
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime: Hunters
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Metroid II: Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion

Ridley features many incarnations in the series, but the true Ridley. In Metroid and Metroid Zero Mission you fight Ridley in the area called MiniBoss Hideout II (later renamed as just 'Ridley' for Zero Mission). In Zero Mission, there's another boss called Mecha Ridley which serves as the Final Boss in the game.

After that battle, he was hurt beyond fighting capability and was infused with Geoform 187, turning him into Meta-Ridley. Blah blah blah, I could go into a full biography on him, but point is that he has a huge backstory.

Yeah. He's important.