[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[hippochinfat!!]

NOOOO........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNpLXo55yfw

Link talking is a big no no.

A non-canon joke of a game not made by Nintendo proves that it's bad for sure!!!

 

[Kiyosuki]

Link talking I have to admit would be pretty weird, but I can see it from him than from Mario.

Plus things can't stay the same forever. Though I like the idea of everyone else talking, but Link saying only a few choice phrases. It depends on whether they choose to continue the "he's a Link to the player" thing or stray from it a bit. Link -has- become kind of a distinct entity by now...

 

[Chief Mendez]

i personally love rpg's and would love to see the rpg style powering up/leveling up systems worked into the next smash. Like the more you use a character the more they level up and you can add stats, like better jumping ability or more attack power or higher running or attack speed. Just an i dea. But thinking again i don't know how well that could be implemented in a smash game. thoughts anyone?

This is an absolutely terrible idea, sorry. Doing do would make the game incredibly nichea automatically. I know I wouldn't play it, because I hate grinding, regardless of genre.

Anyway, as for this whole talking/text box thing...I'm not sold on the idea of text boxes. Take a cutscene from, say, Final Fantasy VII. Text is fine there, because there's not alot of action or camera movement. But imagine any of the cutscenes from SSE, then cover 1/3rd of the screen with a text box...if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you're imagination is broken.

So either they can make the cutscenes less "action packed", or they can just stick to gestures. Really, voice acting is right out in that scenario--Smash Bros. shouldn't be the first game to give Link and Samus voices. Now, if the next Zelda has Link talking and stuff, then we'll see.

But anyway, if Link and other mutes aren't going to talk, it'll be extremely odd to have others doing so. Especially when you consider that the majority of the Smash Bros. roster doesn't really "speak" to begin with. And Marth speaks Japanese, and so on and so on. There are just alot of problems that come packaged with voice acting. Really, I think it's best to just keep the pantomimes and acting as they are. There's a certian charm to that style of communication that suits Nintendo, anyway.

And finally, to those saying Link ruins the moments in his games by staying silent--that's only in Twilight Princess, whose storyline frankly wasn't too well-suited to Zelda anyway. It really shouldn't factor in to this discussion at all.

 

[DOODLEboy99]

I don't think Link should talk either. People who usually talk like Snake should talk, but the rest shouldn't. It would just seem weird. Plus, some of the people that actually talk in Brawl have weird dialouge(sp? lol).

"I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS!"

XD

I think it's best that most of the characters not talk.

 

[Big-Cat]

Link talking I have to admit would be pretty weird, but I can see it from him than from Mario.

Plus things can't stay the same forever. Though I like the idea of everyone else talking, but Link saying only a few choice phrases. It depends on whether they choose to continue the "he's a Link to the player" thing or stray from it a bit. Link -has- become kind of a distinct entity by now...

I would say that Link has become his own character, but he's short of being developed until he talks.

 

[awlccl123]

I might be the only one who still wants to have sse the same in SSB4

 

[DMurr]

Item idea: Wing Cap [Super Mario 64]

You put it on and wings grow from your head, like the bunny hood and bunny ears. It allows you to glide.


And about SSE... Yeah, I definitely think they could add texts boxes. I thought it would be interesting to have each match how the text boxes were in their individual games, it would make it seem more like you're part of that game.. kinda. That's just my idea, because yes, I think they should talk. I think they could make the text boxes work with the cutscenes. Make the scene fit into a smaller space with different camera view, make the text boxes fit into really small spaces, or if it had to be, make the text boxes (minus the words) be mostly see through so you can see the actions.

Those who talk in their games should talk, those who dont, don't have to.

And Isaac needs to be playable. Or Felix. Or a new Golden Sun hero if they come out with a Wii version or something with new characters.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I would say that Link has become his own character, but he's short of being developed until he talks.

...Which I believe is the wrong direction to go. Link needs to be less developed; more like the "blank slate" he used to be in the older Zelda games.

Am I the only one who always uses their actual name in Zelda games?

I might be the only one who still wants to have sse the same in SSB4

You are.

Item idea: Wing Cap [Super Mario 64]

You put it on and wings grow from your head, like the bunny hood and bunny ears. It allows you to glide.

Awesome. We need more than three pieces of "gear". It'd also be neat if, when gear gets knocked off of you, it doesn't disappear. So someone can steal your gear.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I think a cool gear idea would be something that halves the full charge time of your smashes. I don't know what but the effect would be great. Maybe a like...fighters bandanna from Kirby or like Ryu's, or something like that.

Speaking of Ryu, if Capcom were in on this and there were a Pheonix Wright AT here's an idea about that. When it's used, he appears for a moment and says something or opens his case or...whatever, and then he dissapears. When the person who used the trophy gets hit next time by a smash attack in particular, the fight and music stop for a moment and the big giant OBJECTION red bubble we all know appears with him doing that pointing pose over the screen for a moment and right after the guy who attacked is ko'ed.

It only lasts for something like, 10-20 seconds though so we don't have a potentially un-smashable guy for the entire match.

That'd be...awesome.

 

[SirKibble]

Item idea: Wing Cap [Super Mario 64]

You put it on and wings grow from your head, like the bunny hood and bunny ears. It allows you to glide.

Yes. I had this same idea. While they're at it, why don't they give us the Vanish Cap, since the Cloaking Device was removed.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I think a cool gear idea would be something that halves the full charge time of your smashes. I don't know what but the effect would be great. Maybe a like...fighters bandanna from Kirby or like Ryu's, or something like that.

Speaking of Ryu, if Capcom were in on this and there were a Pheonix Wright AT here's an idea about that. When it's used, he appears for a moment and says something or opens his case or...whatever, and then he dissapears. When the person who used the trophy gets hit next time by a smash attack in particular, the fight and music stop for a moment and the big giant OBJECTION red bubble we all know appears with him doing that pointing pose over the screen for a moment and right after the guy who attacked is ko'ed.

It only lasts for something like, 10-20 seconds though so we don't have a potentially un-smashable guy for the entire match.

That'd be...awesome.

Nonsense! Phoenix will never be relegated to the lesser status of Assist Trophy! He'll be a part of the roster, or nothing at all!!

And anyways, the effect you described would be neat, but an auto-KO is pushing it. A powerful counter (1.5 or 2x the damage of the attack countered) would be more like it. But it wouldn't be very useful, since it'd basically have the same end result as a Starman: everyone'd run away from you until the effect stops.

While they're at it, why don't they give us the Vanish Cap, since the Cloaking Device was removed.

I think there's a good reason why it was cut: it was a stupid, annoying item. It'd work great if the camera was always centered on you, but since it's not, it just made it easier to SD, especially in a small stage with 4 players. And the entire purpose is lost when your name appears right above your position.

 

[SirKibble]

I think there's a good reason why it was cut: it was a stupid, annoying item. It'd work great if the camera was always centered on you, but since it's not, it just made it easier to SD, especially in a small stage with 4 players. And the entire purpose is lost when your name appears right above your position.

I thought it was easy enough to tell where you were. Besides, it's big perk was that you didn't take damage while it was in effect, not that you were invisible, since it was easy enough to tell where anyone was who had one, I felt like. In any case, you can't say the entire purpose is lost.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I thought it was easy enough to tell where you were. Besides, it's big perk was that you didn't take damage while it was in effect, not that you were invisible, since it was easy enough to tell where anyone was who had one, I felt like. In any case, you can't say the entire purpose is lost.

Alright, you got me on that one. I had completely forgotten about that effect, which is a shame, since it's a pretty neat ability.

But if you think about it, that effect doesn't really make sense on a cloaking device. They should bring it back in SSB4, but in a different form, like...the Protective Crystal from Kid Icarus, which, in Pit's game, damaged enemies on contact and negated shots fired at Pit. In SSB4, it could stop all damage, though you could still be launched. And maybe if you ran through an opponent, it'd deal a few points (4-6%) of damage.

 

[SirKibble]

Alright, you got me on that one. I had completely forgotten about that effect, which is a shame, since it's a pretty neat ability.

But if you think about it, that effect doesn't really make sense on a cloaking device. They should bring it back in SSB4, but in a different form, like...the Protective Crystal from Kid Icarus, which, in Pit's game, damaged enemies on contact and negated shots fired at Pit. In SSB4, it could stop all damage, though you could still be launched. And maybe if you ran through an opponent, it'd deal a few points (4-6%) of damage.

I'm cool with that idea. Really, that's all I want back. It doesn't totally make sense on a cloaking device, you're right, but it was still nice.


Anyway, I think the real question on everyone's mind concerning SSB4 is... Has Kirby finally settled on a running attack? Or will he get yet another new one?

 

[MajinNecro69]

I just want ten or so new characters (as I doubt I'll be getting very many more than that). Ridley top choice STILL. Then Dyna Blade. Then Kracko. Then Geno. Then Bomberman. Then Revolver Ocelot or Gray Fox. Then King K. Rool. Then I'll be satisfied.

 

[deepseadiva]

i personally love rpg's and would love to see the rpg style powering up/leveling up systems worked into the next smash. Like the more you use a character the more they level up and you can add stats, like better jumping ability or more attack power or higher running or attack speed. Just an i dea. But thinking again i don't know how well that could be implemented in a smash game. thoughts anyone?

This is an absolutely terrible idea, sorry. Doing do would make the game incredibly nichea automatically. I know I wouldn't play it, because I hate grinding, regardless of genre.

This is already in Brawl for the Subspace; it's called stickers. I think it was implemented very well, and hopefully will return in the next installment. It's a great idea.

Nonsense! Phoenix will never be relegated to the lesser status of Assist Trophy! He'll be a part of the roster, or nothing at all!!

Agreed, though if Megaman takes the one and only Capcom spot - perfect world: each third party gets 2 - I'd want to have Phoenix in there at least as SOMETHING.

Third Party Roster:
Konami:
Snake
Old Snake (in the same vain as Young Link) ...I dunno, I don't play MGS to often...

Sega:
Sonic
Tails/Knuckles

Capcom:
Megaman
PHOENIX WRIGHT!!!
(Though the Trophy idea sounds cool Kiyosuki)

 

[Chief Mendez]

Anyway, I think the real question on everyone's mind concerning SSB4 is... Has Kirby finally settled on a running attack? Or will he get yet another new one?

Yeah, this really threw me when I first started Brawl. I though his Comet attack was pretty awesome, and actually fit his character, but then...he got some random breakdance attack...?

Then Dyna Blade. Then Kracko.

Maybe as bosses (especially Kracko). But not very likely as fighters, I think.

This is already in Brawl for the Subspace; it's called stickers. I think it was implemented very well, and hopefully will return in the next installment. It's a great idea.

Technically yes, but...I mean, did you actually use the system? The only time I had cause to actually place stickers was when I went back through the levels searching for trophy stands, in which case I put "Trophy Stand Drops +40" stickers on my characters.

The way in which Falcon Master described it, it sounds like he wants a game in which you get stronger as you go, and that you really couldn't beat without doing so (think Diablo or Baldur's Gate). In SSE, you can (and I think most do) go through the entire game without needing to buff yourself.

Personally I think it's a pretty lame idea. It would've been cooler to be able to stick the stickers on stages or trophies...

Agreed, though if Megaman takes the one and only Capcom spot - perfect world: each third party gets 2 - I'd want to have Phoenix in there at least as SOMETHING.

Third Party Roster:
Konami:
Snake
Old Snake (in the same vain as Young Link) ...I dunno, I don't play MGS to often...

Now that's what I like to hear.

Ocelot or Gray Fox are better MGS choices, and Old Snake hasn't been on a Nintendo system, so he's automatically out. If you want a clone, you could go with Liquid.

 

[DMurr]

I doubt the inclusion of more Metal Gear or Sonic characters in future installments. Unless their creators just offer them up and there's no money involved, since I would think if there's going to be more third party it would be new characters (Megaman, Bomberman..etc).

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

This is already in Brawl for the Subspace; it's called stickers. I think it was implemented very well, and hopefully will return in the next installment. It's a great idea.

i know that it was in subspace. What i ment is that i wanted it to be more rpg esque. Like having characters leveling up after defeating a certain amount of foes. and being able to put on "armor" or "weapons" to increase their defenses or attack power. This "armor" and "weapons" would appear as coustume changes like samus would start in her zero suit, and as she levels up or collects armor pieces she gets upgraded armor. And for the weapons for example as link levels up or collects armor/weapons he gets different weapons. Like th mirror shield so he can reflect projectiles instead of just blocking them while standing still. and the magic sword or something like that. That is more along the lines of what i ment by rpg-esque.

 

[Falcolegend]

Ssb4

I can dream...

 

[Chief Mendez]

I doubt the inclusion of more Metal Gear or Sonic characters in future installments. Unless their creators just offer them up and there's no money involved, since I would think if there's going to be more third party it would be new characters (Megaman, Bomberman..etc).

Let's get something clear here: we don't even know for fact that Nintendo paid SEGA, or vice versa, for permission to use Sonic. Same for Snake. So since the characters are already there, that automatically gives other characters from their respective franchises more priority than they would have otherwise.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, mind. I'm just clarifying something.

Like having characters leveling up after defeating a certain amount of foes. and being able to put on "armor" or "weapons" to increase their defenses or attack power. This "armor" and "weapons" would appear as coustume changes like samus would start in her zero suit, and as she levels up or collects armor pieces she gets upgraded armor. And for the weapons for example as link levels up or collects armor/weapons he gets different weapons. Like th mirror shield so he can reflect projectiles instead of just blocking them while standing still. and the magic sword or something like that. That is more along the lines of what i ment by rpg-esque.

Let me also clarify this whole deal. The above is what I was referring to when I said:

"This is an absolutely terrible idea, sorry. Doing do would make the game incredibly niche automatically. I know I wouldn't play it, because I hate grinding, regardless of genre."

And with your added explanation, there comes more probelms. Having Link and Samus gain new items and stuff is fine and all--it'd work great, even. But...how do characters like Donkey Kong, Mr. G&W, Ice Climbers, Kirby, Pikachu, or Captain Falcon fit into that design? They don't really have things to upgrade themselves with...

I can dream...

Dreaming of only eight seven new characters is sort of sad.

 

[gantrain05]

actually sega sold sonic to nintendo before the wii was even released, and hideo kojima was practically begging the smash team to put snake in, so i highly doubt nintendo had to pay any money to get either character in, and if they did, it probably wasn't much.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Let's get something clear here: we don't even know for fact that Nintendo paid SEGA, or vice versa, for permission to use Sonic. Same for Snake. So since the characters are already there, that automatically gives other characters from their respective franchises more priority than they would have otherwise.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, mind. I'm just clarifying something.

Let me also clarify this whole deal. The above is what I was referring to when I said:

"This is an absolutely terrible idea, sorry. Doing do would make the game incredibly niche automatically. I know I wouldn't play it, because I hate grinding, regardless of genre."

And with your added explanation, there comes more probelms. Having Link and Samus gain new items and stuff is fine and all--it'd work great, even. But...how do characters like Donkey Kong, Mr. G&W, Ice Climbers, Kirby, Pikachu, or Captain Falcon fit into that design? They don't really have things to upgrade themselves with...

Dreaming of only eight seven new characters is sort of sad.

mmm yeah now that i think about it my idea probably would not work with most of the characters. But either way i still think it would be awesome to have a rpg style game with nintendo charachters (think x-men legends/marvel ultimate alliance with nintendo characters and settings).

 

[C.Olimar788]

actually sega sold sonic to nintendo before the wii was even released, and hideo kojima was practically begging the smash team to put snake in, so i highly doubt nintendo had to pay any money to get either character in, and if they did, it probably wasn't much.

Let me just say that Sonic belongs to Segs and will almost certainly continue to... >_>;;

If he was sold to Nintendo we wouldn't have the abomination that was Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 now would we?

 

[Chief Mendez]

mmm yeah now that i think about it my idea probably would not work with most of the characters. But either way i still think it would be awesome to have a rpg style game with nintendo charachters (think x-men legends/marvel ultimate alliance with nintendo characters and settings).

Oh yeah, I agree. I nearly **** myself back when "Mushroom Kingdom Hearts" was announced.

actually sega sold sonic to nintendo before the wii was even released, and hideo kojima was practically begging the smash team to put snake in, so i highly doubt nintendo had to pay any money to get either character in, and if they did, it probably wasn't much.

...You're silly.

 

[MarthTrinity]

If he was sold to Nintendo we wouldn't have the abomination that was Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 now would we?

Nope, we just have the abomination that is Sonic and the Secret Rings

A MUST for SSB4 should be alternate costumes for more characters than just Wario. Like give Snake and Old Man Snake costume or a Big Boss costume. Maybe a Rosalina costume for Peach or something...

And providing Snake returns... I'd like a Big Shell stage. And maybe a better assist trophy than Gray Fox...even though he IS pretty cool, a character like Psycho Mantis would be way cooler...just telling everyone to put their controllers down and he'll move them using his MIND POWERS!

"I see you've been playing Super Smash Brothers Melee!"

 

[Chief Mendez]

And providing Snake returns... I'd like a Big Shell stage. And maybe a better assist trophy than Gray Fox...even though he IS pretty cool, a character like Psycho Mantis would be way cooler...just telling everyone to put their controllers down and he'll move them using his MIND POWERS!

"I see you've been playing Super Smash Brothers Melee!"

And if you really do put your controller down, you get a small health boost/size upgrade/invincibility. Hell yes.

Anyways...

By this:

Nope, we just have the abomination that is Sonic and the Secret Rings

I certainly hope you're not implying that Sonic 2006/360/PS3 was in any way shape or form a better game than Secret Rings.

Also, P.S. http://www.destructoid.com/hey-ash-whatcha-playing-episode-five-93098.phtml

^ Go there, everyone.

 

[Ridley22]

SSB4 would need more Ridley and F-zero. I feel that many franchises were basically forgotten in brawl. Another thing I would hope for is every retro stage.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I wonder how they'll work with all the music they have from Brawl in SSB4. Melee didn't have that many songs, so they just brought all the original ones back, but Brawl has a LOT more.

Oh, and I'd like to see the N64 music brought back. Or at least a remix of the Metal Mario battle. :D

 

[Chief Mendez]

I wonder how they'll work with all the music they have from Brawl in SSB4. Melee didn't have that many songs, so they just brought all the original ones back, but Brawl has a LOT more.

Oh, and I'd like to see the N64 music brought back. Or at least a remix of the Metal Mario battle. :D

A Metal Mario remix would be a great throwback, just for those of us who've been devoted to the games for so long.

You raise a good point, though. I...don't think all the songs'll be back, unless by the time SSB4 comes out, Nintendo's moved onto Blu-Ray. The standard DVD Brawl comes on is clearly already packed to the brim, so if SSB4 uses that format...there won't be much room for fresh material if all the songs make a comeback.

In which case, I think they'd just trim the selection down to the essentials, then add more songs to compliment whichever new characters are included (MegaMan tracks is he's included, etcetera).

 

[SkylerOcon]

mmm yeah now that i think about it my idea probably would not work with most of the characters. But either way i still think it would be awesome to have a rpg style game with nintendo charachters (think x-men legends/marvel ultimate alliance with nintendo characters and settings).

X-Men Legends was mediocre and Ultimate Alliance sucked. I really hope the next SSE isn't like that.

And no RPG-style. Look at pretty much every Nintendo franchise. What are they? Platformers. Smash Brothers is a mash-up of Nintendo with two (hopefully three, with the inclusion of Megaman for SSB4) third party characters. The Platforming genre controls Smash brothers.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

X-Men Legends was mediocre and Ultimate Alliance sucked. I really hope the next SSE isn't like that.

And no RPG-style. Look at pretty much every Nintendo franchise. What are they? Platformers. Smash Brothers is a mash-up of Nintendo with two (hopefully three, with the inclusion of Megaman for SSB4) third party characters. The Platforming genre controls Smash brothers.

i didn't think they sucked. I also changed my opinion for smash i no longer think that it should be rpg. I was saying i would like another game with the characters from smash in the xmen/marvel style. Actually link and samus were supposed to be in ultimate alliance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HteSsMM_ci0 the gameplay footage starts at 1 min

and link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwElEsHkk_A&feature=related hes in seconds 35 to 40

the point being that a rpg with all nintendo characters is possible. And i agree that smash is not the right place for a rpg.

 

[Chief Mendez]

i didn't think they sucked. I also changed my opinion for smash i no longer think that it should be rpg. I was saying i would like another game with the characters from smash in the xmen/marvel style. Actually link and samus were supposed to be in ultimate alliance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HteSsMM_ci0 the gameplay footage starts at 1 min

and link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwElEsHkk_A&feature=related hes in seconds 35 to 40

the point being that a rpg with all nintendo characters is possible. And i agree that smash is not the right place for a rpg.

X-Men Legends was awesome, though I'm a big X-Men fan, which really helps.

Having Link and Samus in there would've been really, really weird. In a good way, though. Man, I learn something new every day...

An RPG like that certainly is possible. Monolith Soft made a game called Namco x Capcom back in 2005 that's already pretty freaking awesome...but if it were changed to, say Nintendo x Capcom...well, then we'd have ourselves a kick-*** RPG. And the battle system's already vaguely action-ish, which would be suited to the idea--see below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYC9xmHWL3k&feature=related

 

[zrky]

RPG would fail smash bros. SSE in my opinion was a nice attempt to adding more 1-player stuff to Smash, but an RPG would kill the 1-player more. I vote board the platforms be put in again, it's funner and more challenging than break the target.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Yeah, this really threw me when I first started Brawl. I though his Comet attack was pretty awesome, and actually fit his character, but then...he got some random breakdance attack...?

Little nitpicky thing, but the breakdance move actually isn't random. It was an attack Yo-Yo Kirby used.

 

[Chief Mendez]

RPG would fail smash bros. SSE in my opinion was a nice attempt to adding more 1-player stuff to Smash, but an RPG would kill the 1-player more. I vote board the platforms be put in again, it's funner and more challenging than break the target.

That's not the idea anymore. We're thinking of a stand-alone RPG made completely apart from Smash Bros., probably also made by a different development group.

Little nitpicky thing, but the breakdance move actually isn't random. It was an attack Yo-Yo Kirby used.

Well, what game was Yo-Yo Kirby in? I don't think he was in Kirby's Adventure, Kirby 64, or either of the GBA games...since those are the only Kirby games I've played.

So if he was in, say, Superstar, then that explains my lack of smarts here.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i forget what game it was but i think it was released sometime after smash. I think it was the one where master and crazy hand make a boss cameo. kirby and the amazing mirror was it? all i remember is that when he got the power he wore ness's hat

 

[solidsnake01]

We better be seeing the guy next game:

I'm sure Microsoft won't let us have him though

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

i forget what game it was but i think it was released sometime after smash. I think it was the one where master and crazy hand make a boss cameo. kirby and the amazing mirror was it? all i remember is that when he got the power he wore ness's hat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0CGcN6v_gg

I don't see Ness' hat here.

 

[Chief Mendez]

i forget what game it was but i think it was released sometime after smash. I think it was the one where master and crazy hand make a boss cameo. kirby and the amazing mirror was it? all i remember is that when he got the power he wore ness's hat

Yeah, Master Hand (no Crazy, as far as I know) is a "hidden" boss in Kirby and The Amazing Mirror. Though there's no Ness hat...

When you copy him, Kirby can use his Final Cutter, Stone, and Hammer attacks, from Smash Bros. The ability itself is even called "Smash Kirby".

We better be seeing the guy next game:

You pretty much answered your own idea there, but just to reinforce the idea: NO.