[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Roihu]

Stafy should get in IMO.
He's not iconic, but his series is pretty decent and from Nintendo. And it was strong enough to get into Smash.
Saki should also get in. Or if not him, his son.

 

[ChronoBound]

Stafy should get in IMO.
He's not iconic, but his series is pretty decent and from Nintendo. And it was strong enough to get into Smash.
Saki should also get in. Or if not him, his son.

Stafy has had five games to date, the same as Star Fox. The main problem with Stafy lies within that none of his games have been released outside Japan and the possibility for a bland a moveset. However, that did not stop Fire Emblem from getting two characters back in Melee.

 

[majora_787]

Stafy has had five games to date, the same as Star Fox. The main problem with Stafy lies within that none of his games have been released outside Japan and the possibility for a bland a moveset. However, that did not stop Fire Emblem from getting two characters back in Melee.

My problem with Stafy is simply the japan-only part to be honest. I don't like playing a game full of people I've never heard of. =P

 

[Lord Viper]

My problem with Stafy is simply the japan-only part to be honest. I don't like playing a game full of people I've never heard of. =P

I'm going to need more people to play import game's. Or better yet, make a rebel and make Reggie put great games that's in Japan and make them be in the US.

 

[Black Hole CO]

i would have liked to see more mother 3 characters, and ones without the same general move set. someone like flint would have been awesome, as there is a distinct lack of cowboy in smash.
as for stafy, i haven't seen or heard of his games, so i don't really have an opinion, apart from the more characters the better.

 

[ChronoBound]

i would have liked to see more mother 3 characters, and ones without the same general move set. someone like flint would have been awesome, as there is a distinct lack of cowboy in smash.
as for stafy, i haven't seen or heard of his games, so i don't really have an opinion, apart from the more characters the better.

Mother has more than enough characters in Smash Bros. Itoi said the series is finished, and two of the three games of the series have not been released outside Japan. Not to mention the only other main protagonist of the series (Ninten) is a Ness copy in appearance and abilities.

 

[Kage Me]

Stafy is fine as an Assist Trophy... I'd support Lyn's inclusion, but eh, we have enough swords as it is.

And since I'm too lazy to read all previous 816 pages: what would be the "new kind of special move"? SSBM had the side special, SSBB had the Final Smash. I've seen the idea of two Final Smashes, and it seems like a good idea, but it doesn't really feel new...

 

[Kraryo]

Ninten is the original Mother protaganist. Ness is the copy, not Ninten.

EDIT: I'm not suggesting that Ninten should of been in Smash over Ness at all.

 

[ChronoBound]

Stafy is fine as an Assist Trophy... I'd support Lyn's inclusion, but eh, we have enough swords as it is.

And since I'm too lazy to read all previous 816 pages: what would be the "new kind of special move"? SSBM had the side special, SSBB had the Final Smash. I've seen the idea of two Final Smashes, and it seems like a good idea, but it doesn't really feel new...

First off, if there can be three space furries using lasers, reflecting shields, landmasters, and directional recovery, then there could be a third sword-wielding Fire Emblem character. However, Lyn is not the one it should be (heck, she isn't even the main lord of the game she was in).

As for what can be added for Smash 4 in regards to movesets, well, I have a few ideas, but I don't feel like elaborating on them right now.

Ninten is the original Mother protaganist. Ness is the copy, not Ninten.

I know that. However, unlike Ninten, Ness's game was released outside Japan, and has been a playable character since the first Smash Bros.

 

[majora_787]

Mother has more than enough characters in Smash Bros. Itoi said the series is finished, and two of the three games of the series have not been released outside Japan. Not to mention the only other main protagonist of the series (Ninten) is a Ness copy in appearance and abilities.

I always thought Ninten and Ness were the s...

*avoids rabid fanbase assault* O_O

Okay anyway...yeah, for a mostly japanese series I think two is enough. If they have three games in the US I'd say sure, give them three characters.

 

[SmashChu]

The problem with Smash Bros. is that there is a dwindling pool for characters that are actually worthy enough to get in (both first and third-party).

Pretty much the only iconic Nintendo characters that have yet to get in are K. Rool, Ridley, and Little Mac (and possibly Isaac, though his chances really hinge upon whether Camelot decides to make a Golden Sun 3 before Smash 4 is released). Mewtwo and Roy have quite a few fans among the Smash community so they could be added back in. Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Tingle are definitely well-known as well. As for third-party characters, the only ones with significant requests to be in Smash Bros. are Mega Man and Geno (who was simply a one-shot character, and not even the main character of that game). Remember, Sakurai said that both the developer and Nintendo must have interest in the character being included in order to be in (it seems only Mega Man fulfills this). Smash Bros.'s well for character selection is drying up, and with each console generation it is going to be siginificantly more difficult to implement most of the characters that were in the previous Smash Bros. installment. Also, with the increase in the roster number comes the increasing chance for even more inbalances among the character roster.

Do you think Sakurai will eventually decide to dump a large portion of the roster down the road after the roster gets too big (like was the case with King of Fighters series and the Dragon Ball Z fighting games)?

I have some disagreement.

First, understand that iconic is defiantly opinionated. We could create many choices for characters. Also, the important characters are already in Brawl. All that is left is secondary characters, the obscure and villains. The characters you mentioned all fit that bill. All the non third party characters were that as well.

Also, what adds characters is popularity. There is very little that is iconic about Lucas, Wolf, or Lucario, but they are in anyway. It's really who people want. You may say Tingle should be in because he's well known and iconic, but he's also greatly hated. Why add a character no one wants. Some fanboys may want Paper Mario, but not a lot of people do. Sakurai considers this when choosing characters.

Stafy has had five games to date, the same as Star Fox. The main problem with Stafy lies within that none of his games have been released outside Japan and the possibility for a bland a moveset. However, that did not stop Fire Emblem from getting two characters back in Melee.

Starfy's games also never sold that well, and no one want's Starfy. That's how it goes.

Also, nice to see you again.

 

[majora_787]

I have some disagreement.

First, understand that iconic is defiantly opinionated. We could create many choices for characters. Also, the important characters are already in Brawl. All that is left is secondary characters, the obscure and villains. The characters you mentioned all fit that bill. All the non third party characters were that as well.

Also, what adds characters is popularity. There is very little that is iconic about Lucas, Wolf, or Lucario, but they are in anyway. It's really who people want. You may say Tingle should be in because he's well known and iconic, but he's also greatly hated. Why add a character no one wants. Some fanboys may want Paper Mario, but not a lot of people do. Sakurai considers this when choosing characters.



Starfy's games also never sold that well, and no one want's Starfy. That's how it goes.

Also, nice to see you again.

Star Wolf IS Iconic. I mean they're the primary enemy of starfox. Andross doesn't count because to my knowledge starwolf has been in every game to take on starfox, and andross has NOT. I personally think they're more iconic than Andross is.

As for obscure, yeah thgat usually helps to get on the roster.

 

[ChronoBound]

Star Wolf IS Iconic. I mean they're the primary enemy of starfox. Andross doesn't count because to my knowledge starwolf has been in every game to take on starfox, and andross has NOT. I personally think they're more iconic than Andross is.

As for obscure, yeah thgat usually helps to get on the roster.

All that is iconic about Star Wolf is their opening quotes on Fortuna.

"Can't let you do that Star Fox."
"Andross had ordered us to take you down."
"Peppy long time no see."
"Andross's enemy is my enemy."

Pretty much all of their fame comes from Star Fox 64.

Also, Little Mac and Ridley are definitely iconic. Punch-Out was one of the highest selling games on the NES and is among the highest selling games on the Virtual Console, while Ridley is pretty much the main antagonist of the Metroid series.

 

[majora_787]

All that is iconic about Star Wolf is their opening quotes on Fortuna.

"Can't let you do that Star Fox."
"Andross had ordered us to take you down."
"Peppy long time no see."
"Andross's enemy is my enemy."

Pretty much all of their fame comes from Star Fox 64.

Also, Little Mac and Ridley are definitely iconic. Punch-Out was one of the highest selling games on the NES and is among the highest selling games on the Virtual Console, while Ridley is pretty much the main antagonist of the Metroid series.

Ridley is the second most iconic character in metroid, I mean he MADE Samus a bounty hunter. She probably would have joined the GF anyway, but still.

 

[freeman123]

I don't know if it's just a coincidence or not, but so far the total number of new characters in each Smash game has been 2 more than the previous game.

In SSB64 all of the characters were new since it was the first game in the series, and there were a total of 12 characters. Then in Melee they added 14 new characters, which were 2 more than the original 12 that were introduced in SSB64. Then in Brawl they added 16 new characters, which were 2 more than the 14 added in Melee.

So based on this pattern, I think it's likely that there will be 18 new characters in the next Smash game. If they do add 18 new ones and also bring back all 42 characters from the last 3 games, there will be a total of 60 characters. Even if they don't bring back all of the characters from the last 3 games, it's pretty safe to assume that most of them will come back. I can't see them cutting more than 10 characters at the most, so I think that the next Smash game with have anywhere from 50 to 60 characters total.

Above all else they should actually add good online play and a real map editor mode that has more than 3 generic backgrounds to choose from.

Also, I'll go ahead and repeat my idea that I've had since SSB64. They should have Magikarp as a Pokeball Pokemon, and when you get him he flops around like Goldeen, but if anyone hits him he evolves into Gyarados and does some awesome attack that takes out everyone around him.

 

[majora_787]

I don't know if it's just a coincidence or not, but so far the total number of new characters in each Smash game has been 2 more than the previous game.

In SSB64 all of the characters were new since it was the first game in the series, and there were a total of 12 characters. Then in Melee they added 14 new characters, which were 2 more than the original 12 that were introduced in SSB64. Then in Brawl they added 16 new characters, which were 2 more than the 14 added in Melee.

So based on this pattern, I think it's likely that there will be 18 new characters in the next Smash game. If they do add 18 new ones and also bring back all 42 characters from the last 3 games, there will be a total of 60 characters. Even if they don't bring back all of the characters from the last 3 games, it's pretty safe to assume that most of them will come back. I can't see them cutting more than 10 characters at the most, so I think that the next Smash game with have anywhere from 50 to 60 characters total.

Above all else they should actually add good online play and a real map editor mode that has more than 3 generic backgrounds to choose from.

Also, I'll go ahead and repeat my idea that I've had since SSB64. They should have Magikarp as a Pokeball Pokemon, and when you get him he flops around like Goldeen, but if anyone hits him he evolves into Gyarados and does some awesome attack that takes out everyone around him.

I could fill that 18 spots with the characters I see at the top of so many wishlists....let's see if it would fill it.

Ridley, Geno, Lip, Stafy, Leon, Krystal, Claus, Little Mac, Isaac, Megaman, Bomberman, Dark Samus, Samurai Goroh, K. Rool, Waluigi, Black Knight, Black Shadow, Knuckles

Took me a while to find 18 people to fill the blanks.

 

[SmashChu]

Also, Little Mac and Ridley are definitely iconic. Punch-Out was one of the highest selling games on the NES and is among the highest selling games on the Virtual Console, while Ridley is pretty much the main antagonist of the Metroid series.

Again, being iconic is arguable. I would say no as they are not iconic on a wide scale. Samus would be, but not Ridley. He isn't even the main antagonist. Punch-Out is iconic, but Little Maxc isn't. Note how the focus is consistently on Mike Tyson.

You could bring up a counter argument to any of these. Which is why looking at characters being "iconic" is a bad idea.

If I may. *Pulls out a soap box and stands upon it* Everyone always seems to miss the mark when it comes to characters. Your don't characters because they are iconic. You don't add them becuase of franchise representation. You don't add them because you think they are popular. Sakurai set up 4 reasons for just that purpose. If they fit the 4 requirements, then they are in. If not, they're out. I think people should consider these when making a roster.

 

[ChronoBound]

I could fill that 18 spots with the characters I see at the top of so many wishlists....let's see if it would fill it.

Ridley, Geno, Lip, Stafy, Leon, Krystal, Claus, Little Mac, Isaac, Megaman, Bomberman, Dark Samus, Samurai Goroh, K. Rool, Waluigi, Black Knight, Black Shadow, Knuckles

Took me a while to find 18 people to fill the blanks.

Yes:
Ridley
Little Mac
Isaac
Mega Man
K. Rool
Black Shadow

Maybe:
Lip
Stafy

No:
Leon
Krystal
Claus
Bomberman
Dark Samus
Samurai Goroh
Waluigi
Black Knight
Knuckles

Like I said earlier, the pool for worthy Smash contenders is running dry.

Also, Sakurai has broken his own rules in regards to character selection. Sakurai is a man like everyone else, not a god.

 

[MasterWarlord]

@Smashchu: Well, pretend Goomba was more popular then Ridley, Megaman, and K. Rool combined, would he get in? It does play SOMEWHAT of a factor.

@Chronobound: Smash Bros. is completely about the characters. If you strip that from the game, it is nothing. The game would be viewed as a step back if it had less characters no matter what they did to it, as the whole point of it is to see our favorite characters fighting each other. Nothing else really matters when it comes down to it. Nintendo may start cutting more characters due to the quantity of them, but the roster as a whole must always increase and become better.

 

[ChronoBound]

@Smashchu: Well, pretend Goomba was more popular then Ridley, Megaman, and K. Rool combined, would he get in? It does play SOMEWHAT of a factor.

@Chronobound: Smash Bros. is completely about the characters. If you strip that from the game, it is nothing. The game would be viewed as a step back if it had less characters no matter what they did to it, as the whole point of it is to see our favorite characters fighting each other. Nothing else really matters when it comes down to it. Nintendo may start cutting more characters due to the quantity of them, but the roster as a whole must always increase and become better.

Perhaps then should Nintendo opt for smaller character increases for subsequent Smash Bros. games?

 

[Big-Cat]

If I may. *Pulls out a soap box and stands upon it* Everyone always seems to miss the mark when it comes to characters. Your don't characters because they are iconic. You don't add them becuase of franchise representation. You don't add them because you think they are popular. Sakurai set up 4 reasons for just that purpose. If they fit the 4 requirements, then they are in. If not, they're out. I think people should consider these when making a roster.

As Chrnobound mentioned, Sakurai has gone against this criteria a number of times.

For each one, I'll show a contradiction.

1. Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, and R.O.B. You can argue the first two since people may have liked them in Melee, but it doesn't apply for pre-Melee.

2. Ganondorf, Toon Link, and to an extent, Lucas, Falco, and Wolf.

3. Capt. Falcon, Fox, Zelda, Ice Climbers, Sheik and more had movesets specifically made for them in Smash.

4. Meta Knight.

Of course, you have said that I was misinterpreting these criteria before and said you would explain them at a later time. Now is a good time to give us your almighty information.

One other thing I would like to mention, I seriously wonder if character repping based on franchise size is really important. After all, smaller franchises like FE (sort of), MOTHER, and Starfox are more character based whereas a franchise like Metroid is not. If we were to keep it in proportion to how big the games were, smaller series don't have much of a chance of having a character in by that logic.

 

[majora_787]

Yes:
Ridley
Little Mac
Isaac
Mega Man
K. Rool
Black Shadow

Maybe:
Lip
Stafy

No:
Leon
Krystal
Claus
Bomberman
Dark Samus
Samurai Goroh
Waluigi
Black Knight
Knuckles

Like I said earlier, the pool for worthy Smash contenders is running dry.

Also, Sakurai has broken his own rules in regards to character selection. Sakurai is a man like everyone else, not a god.

My point is I had to come up with the 18 characters in the other post. There ARE no other WORTHY possibilities other than the "YES" stack and maybe Black Knight or Goroh. Those two entirely depend on wether or not two-time antagonists in a evil-less game, or a racer rival would make the cut. I think goroh stands a chance.

 

[ChronoBound]

My point is I had to come up with the 18 characters in the other post. There ARE no other WORTHY possibilities other than the "YES" stack and maybe Black Knight or Goroh. Those two entirely depend on wether or not two-time antagonists in a evil-less game, or a racer rival would make the cut. I think goroh stands a chance.

I agree with you on Goroh. If Goroh manages to outshine Black Shadow in the newest F-Zero then he will get the second F-Zero slot.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Goroh could also be the new Falcon clone to give Ganondorf a new moveset, but it'd be awkward seeing he wouldn't be able to use his sword, just like Ganondorf. Black Shadow would translate Ganondorf's moveset perfectly.

Chrono, I think Nintendo will just go with the flow for SSB4 and give us at least 45 characters (It's either that or 50 really, I can't say it being anything in-between). Later on though, they may start adding less characters.

 

[ChronoBound]

Goroh could also be the new Falcon clone to give Ganondorf a new moveset, but it'd be awkward seeing he wouldn't be able to use his sword, just like Ganondorf. Black Shadow would translate Ganondorf's moveset perfectly.

Chrono, I think Nintendo will just go with the flow for SSB4 and give us at least 45 characters (It's either that or 50 really, I can't say it being anything in-between). Later on though, they may start adding less characters.

I think the lowest number of playable character slots that there will be in Smash 4 is 44, with the highest being 50.

I have an idea as to what to do with the two factions within the Smash community are in conflict over a large increase of characters, however, I am not sure it would go ever too well.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the roster size issue can be remedied, but it would be completely unorthodox. In fact, it would change the very nature of the series. That would be to make it a Nintendo vs. X Company series. Of course, this will probably not happen anytime in the neat future unless Sega is bought by Nintendo or something.

Other than that, I can't think of another solution. I wouldn't want to decrease the roster size. After what happened with Mewtwo, I don't think Nintendo would be so willing to do that either.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think the roster size issue can be remedied, but it would be completely unorthodox. In fact, it would change the very nature of the series. That would be to make it a Nintendo vs. X Company series. Of course, this will probably not happen anytime in the neat future unless Sega is bought by Nintendo or something.

Other than that, I can't think of another solution. I wouldn't want to decrease the roster size. After what happened with Mewtwo, I don't think Nintendo would be so willing to do that either.

I am currently developing a solution to this debacle. However, the answer I have in mind will please both crowds, but be VERY controversial. I think you will like it.

 

[Cherry64]

Stoked fir it! ANt new stages and new characters. as for shadow or goroh easily goroh before shadow.

 

[Big-Cat]

I am currently developing a solution to this debacle. However, the answer I have in mind will please both crowds, but be VERY controversial. I think you will like it.

I'm quite interested. I wonder, though; are you suggesting that they rotate characters out?

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm quite interested. I wonder, though; are you suggesting that they rotate characters out?

No, characters being cut between installments would only be 1-5. My idea actually involves splitting the Smash Bros. series in two.

 

[SmashChu]

@Smashchu: Well, pretend Goomba was more popular then Ridley, Megaman, and K. Rool combined, would he get in? It does play SOMEWHAT of a factor.

@Chronobound: Smash Bros. is completely about the characters. If you strip that from the game, it is nothing. The game would be viewed as a step back if it had less characters no matter what they did to it, as the whole point of it is to see our favorite characters fighting each other. Nothing else really matters when it comes down to it. Nintendo may start cutting more characters due to the quantity of them, but the roster as a whole must always increase and become better.

"4 reasons" was a link

I would also agree that characters are the biggest part of Smash, at least to the fans. Sakurai doesn't design the games with this in mind, but it is something he still puts a large focus on.

As Chrnobound mentioned, Sakurai has gone against this criteria a number of times.

For each one, I'll show a contradiction.

1. Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, and R.O.B. You can argue the first two since people may have liked them in Melee, but it doesn't apply for pre-Melee.

2. Ganondorf, Toon Link, and to an extent, Lucas, Falco, and Wolf.

3. Capt. Falcon, Fox, Zelda, Ice Climbers, Sheik and more had movesets specifically made for them in Smash.

4. Meta Knight.

Of course, you have said that I was misinterpreting these criteria before and said you would explain them at a later time. Now is a good time to give us your almighty information.

I know I said that, but I have been bad about finishing these. I am still writing on Brawl's balance and am now starting my essay on Left 4 Dead. But, I'll show you where you went wrong.

1)To quote the link

This is infinitely harder than you and I think, because we are so jaded by our own perspective. I would insist that Viewtiful Joe would be the best character ever, but I'm not sure people would really want the game more. Neither of us would have ever thought of ROB, and yet "ROBOT" was the CROWD FAVORITE by FAR in the GDC matches the CAs had. Everyone loved him! We as gamers are way too biased to make this decision easily.

First, we (as Smash fans) tend to get jaded and believe what we think is true, is true. There is a similar effect as many people believe that characters like Black Knight and Masked Man are popular (they aren't). Now, as the link mentioned, ROB was seen with praise, and people enjoyed playing as him. The same could be true of Game & Watch and defiantly Ice Climbers. These characters are unique and fun to play with. Despite the scorn Smash fans gave to ROB, many found it interesting and a great addition.

I've always interpreted this on two different, but equal, way. It could mean what it says that the inclusion must be interesting and fun. Pokemon Trainer is this way. No one asked for him, but he was interesting and people wanted to play with him. The other way is characters people want to play as. These are your Genos, Krystals, and Ridleys. They are the popular characters fans really want. Of course, it's the other facts that rules out which Krystals, Genos and Ridleys (on my) get it.

2)Opposed to popular belief, those characters are quite different from other characters.

In Melee, 6 characters were made to beef the roster. They were the clones. Of course, the other 19 characters were very unique. Even the clones had some uniqueness to the rest of the cast. In Brawl the gap widen. Take Toon Link. Despite he is similar to Link, he is very unique. Link is very slow. Heavy, even. He has some powerful attacks but he moves slow and the ground and air to be able to pull of quick attack. He also has plenty of projectiles to make up for his lack of speed. Toon Link is nimble. Look how high he jumps. He is a character about movement. He moves fast, jumps high, and overall is meant to stay in motion. His specials reflect that as they are much slower and weaker.

You look at the animations. I look at the properties. Just because it walks like a dog and talks like a dog doesn't mean it's a dog. It means it like a dog. Toon Link has lots of different properties to make it play different then Link. He floats longer, his down smash sends people up, his down air sends him downward ect. He is a unique character. Many people fall into the fallacy of claiming characters are too similar because they have similar moves.Instead of complain, maybe they should try them out. Perhaps then they'll see the difference.

3)This was one you grossely missinterpreted, and you interpretation was wrong by what you thought it was.

Real quick like: Capt. Falcon is a bounty hunter. Fox is a pilot who went to the Cornarian Academy (I beleive). Falco was a thug (which probably means he can fight). Zelda has magic. Sheik is a ninja. Got it/

What it really says is "Would it make scene for the character to fight?" L Block was a great example because L block has not legs, arms, or even eyes. It can't fight. Animal Crosser is another good one because Animal Crossers don't fight, and they are not trained to (unlike the rest of the cast). Basically, it ask if the character is out of place or not.

4)This one has been a terrible misconception amongst competitive players.

First, on a personal note, I don't believe Meta-Knight is over powered. I think the the tier list ruining the game again. As conflict theorist state, an institution sticks around because it perpetuates inequality. All the tier list is doing is allow the top characters to stay top and the bottom to be ignored. According to "them", Meta-Knight has no counter. Of course, this does not take into account 1)That there is one that is unknown (there is) and 2)They are playing the game wrong.

Understand that the game is NOT designed for competitive play. Put Meta-Knight into a 4vs and watch him become bug-eyed. He has problems holding his own in a big fray. This is the way the game is designed and balanced. If certain things are taken from him that make him "broken" then he will probably suck. This is the problem the two realms have.

This one is hard to explain because there is a lot to it. So sorry for my light response.

There you go. The reason Sakurai makes the game and we don't is because he knows what he is doing. It surprises me he gets so much scorn despite he made three amazing games and all by himself.

I am currently developing a solution to this debacle. However, the answer I have in mind will please both crowds, but be VERY controversial. I think you will like it.

Well, bring it on!

 

[ChronoBound]

Okay, I will elaborate on my idea: part of the idea that I have that is controversial is to turn Smash Bros. strictly into a fanservice party game with little balancing put in (much like Mortal Kombat and DBZ fighting games), and to basically make it so that any character with a smidgeon of popularity can get in (meaning the likes of Krystal, Waluigi, Ashely, a party member from Mother could get in). Roster slots would be determined by online polls, etc. Smash Bros. would be strictly geared toward the casual crowd. Also, third-party entry requirements would be lifted, and any character would be eligible. Basically, turn Smash Bros. into a wasteland party game.

That is the first half to my idea.

 

[MasterWarlord]

How do you get more casual then Brawl? The idea sounds good in concept, but I shudder at the thought of a game with less competetive potential then even Brawl. And I actually prefer Brawl to Melee.

 

[ChronoBound]

How do you get more casual then Brawl? The idea sounds good in concept, but I shudder at the thought of a game with less competetive potential then even Brawl. And I actually prefer Brawl to Melee.

The other half to my idea would be to develop a spinoff series of Smash Bros. with a much smaller roster and competitive playing in mind.

I will elaborate more on this idea in the Smash 4 Project group.

 

[Big-Cat]

Okay, I will elaborate on my idea: part of the idea that I have that is controversial is to turn Smash Bros. strictly into a fanservice party game with little balancing put in (much like Mortal Kombat and DBZ fighting games), and to basically make it so that any character with a smidgeon of popularity can get in (meaning the likes of Krystal, Waluigi, Ashely, a party member from Mother could get in). Roster slots would be determined by online polls, etc. Smash Bros. would be strictly geared toward the casual crowd. Also, third-party entry requirements would be lifted, and any character would be eligible. Basically, turn Smash Bros. into a wasteland party game.

That is the first half to my idea.

I can definitely see why this would be controversial, but I can also this as a good thing for many people who want characters like Amaterasu, Phoenix Wright, Viewtiful Joe, etc. Unfortunately, I would still be against this because then the series would comply way too much to the mass public which can be full of idiots. Thus, the casual crowd could kill the series.


Smashchu, I'll give my response to each of your explanations.

1. Do you have much proof that Claus and the Black Knight aren't popular? Particularly Claus since we never TRULY hear about a character's popularity in Japan. Most of the time, it's spun out as a BS argument. Anyway, at the very least, they were popular enough to be appear on the journal a number of times. In fact, Claus appeared as much as Lucas. Of course, we don't know much begind the reason for the random appearances in the list like Link's Uncle.

As for Pokemon Trainer, I believe there were a number of people wanting to see him in. So were the three Pokemon he uses (save Bulbasaur who became Ivysaur).

2. I understand that the properties differences can make the fighter unique in a sense, but this does not justify Toon Link and Ganondorf. These two have plenty of stuff to derive from. Clones should only be reasonable ones like Falco, Luigi (to an extent), and other characters not included like Paula who would be somewhat expected to be clones/semi-clones in the first place.

3. Your interpretation makes sense, but I feel it's limiting. Just because we have never seen the characters in Animal Crossing fight, it doesn't mean we should exclude them. R.O.B. himself never fought or anything implied to it. They just gave him lasers and jetpacks.

4. I'm not touching this one since you're so set on the belief that items are the very thing that creates the balance in Smash.

 

[ChronoBound]

I can definitely see why this would be controversial, but I can also this as a good thing for many people who want characters like Amaterasu, Phoenix Wright, Viewtiful Joe, etc. Unfortunately, I would still be against this because then the series would comply way too much to the mass public which can be full of idiots. Thus, the casual crowd could kill the series.

Hmm, you are right, the first half to this idea should definitely be toned down. How about simply opening the door for minor Nintendo characters getting in? Geno, Krystal, Claus, Takamaru, etc. are minor Nintendo characters yet are wanted by quite a few people within the Smash community. However, it is important to note that I am against the ideal that the only requirement for a character to get in is popularity.


It will become increasingly difficult to balance the games as the number of characters increases.

A competitive spinoff for Smash Bros. would keep the professional players happy.

 

[Big-Cat]

Hmm, you are right, the first half to this idea should definitely be toned down. How about simply opening the door for minor Nintendo characters getting in? Geno, Krystal, Claus, Takamaru, etc. are minor Nintendo characters yet are wanted by quite a few people within the Smash community. However, it is important to note that I am against the ideal that the only requirement for a character to get in is popularity.


It will become increasingly difficult to balance the games as the number of characters increases.

A competitive spinoff for Smash Bros. would keep the professional players happy.

I think toning down requirements would be better and that popularity shouldn't be a major factor. As for balancing, that will indeed prove to be hard. I think the best thing to do would be to have major tournament winners help play test the game.

 

[ChronoBound]

What does everyone think about the idea of making a competitive (a fighting game with depth and professional pla in mind) Smash spinoff?

 

[Linkshot]

A game geared toward competition using the Smash system...

That would rule.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Of course, Nintendo would never do it, but it's cool to entertain the idea.