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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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BKupa666

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Black Shadow with Ganondorf's old moveset is flawless. F-Zero gets fair representation, Falcon gets a Luigi-fied clone from the same series (this always struck me), and Ganondorf gets a much more original and true-to-character moveset.

EDIT: Cranky Kong Sandbag: Look, the bag blinks! Waste of frames if you ask me...

Karbine



Karbines are malicious little owls from the Northern Kremisphere who enjoy using the generic Kongs invading their factory as target practice. No big loss, really. This Karbine in particular has escaped his polluted homeland in search of greener grasses and more satisfying victims.

Statistics



Fall Speed - - - 8
Aerial Movement - - - 6
Movement - - - 6
Traction - - - 4
Weight - - - 4
Jumps - - - 3
Size - - - 2


For such a pipsqueak, Karbine's cannon bulks him up to the point where he doesn't have to be paranoid about death. If you venture offstage in hope of a glide or multiple, useful jumps, though, you'll find Karbine's weapon-of-choice is a double-edged sword (figuratively, for all ye ignorant clods). With each of his three mid-air jumps, Karbine can move horizontally, but drops vertically with each jump, weighed down by his massive cannon. Imagine Pit multi-jumping with a metal box, and you'll get the picture.

Specials


Up Special - Keg Barrage
Karbine aims his cannon upwards (or whatever direction you've selected with Down Special) with minute lag and fires off a Kirby-sized steel keg. The keg travels off the blast line at Fox's dash speed, although its priority is rather low. This is a very fast move, so why should Karbine stop at one keg? By tapping Up B, Karbine can fire off as many kegs as he wishes, in a barrage of steely ammunition. He can fire as many kegs as he wants at once, with a bit of ending lag after he's done.

Kegs deal 5% and a set upwards knockback; an individual keg will never KO. However, who's to say that a barrage of kegs won't be able to carry a foe right off the top of the screen? Or out to no-man's land over an edge? Karbine can do just this by firing off a barrage of kegs. And his ammunition doesn't stop at kegs; several of his other moves can be used while firing a barrage to integrate their effects into his chain, giving opponents a load of trouble. Catch them with that initial keg, and the sky's the limit...literally. To stop a barrage, Karbine can perform a defensive maneuver, or refrain from shooting for .5 second.


Down Special - Lock On
Karbine immediately becomes stationary; you can now use the control stick to rotate his cannon in any direction. Tap B to make your direction selection and regain mobility. Locking into any direction can be done as fast as you can move your thumbs; there is no lag starting or ending here. The direction you locked into used the next time you input Up Special; afterwards, you'll have choose another direction if you want to lock in. Not a huge deal, considering how quickly you can do so.

So just what does locking in do? Well, without doing so, Karbine is stuck with shooting straight up. Now this is all fine and dandy, but locking into another direction before shooting gives him much more potential for awesomeness. For starters, you don't have to be right under your foe to hit them. You can also blast them off the side, or even bottom of the screen. Hell, push them into a stage hazard, if you wish! If you need mobility while locked on, Side Special is your go-to move. Learn to lock onto a character and pepper them with ammo; it's a vital part of Karbine's damage-building and KOing game. Karbine can also recover in one direction safely by locking in said direction and firing kegs. Be sure not to get stuck under the stage, or Karbine will fall.


Side Special - Flap
Karbine flaps his tiny wings in place, lifting himself off the ground slightly and becoming able to flutter side-to-side at Mario's dash speed. While doing so, Karbine can use any of his ground moves, sans dash attack. He can maneuver around this way for up to seven seconds before becoming helpless (dodge to drop out, although you can't reuse the move until you land). The most obvious use for flapping is for recovery; Karbine can recover just fine horizontally, as long as he's level with the edge. Flapping buys Karbine no height, but considering he can aim down and blast back up before flapping to the edge, he has no real issue recovering.

Just as importantly as this function, Karbine can also move back and forth while locked shooting in one direction. He can aim at an opponent and move back and forth to keep them in range if they attempt to DI. Of note, Karbine is not pushed in any direction when flapping and shooting, unlike when firing his barrage normally. He can flap offstage and shoot up at an opponent without fear of being sent off the bottom blast line. Just make sure you get back to solid ground before your wings tire, or you may just suffer this fate.


Neutral Special - Barrel Blast
Karbine blasts a Kirby-sized wooden barrel in a straight line; he has .15 start-up lag, during which he can aim his shot in any direction (forward is default). Barrels travel straight off the blast line at Mario's dashing speed. Unlike their closest relative, Falco's laser, barrels' priority can be beaten without difficulty. Plus, Karbine can only have out one barrel at a time. If Karbine's barrel strikes a character, it shatters on them, dealing 7-8% and stunning them in place for .25 second.

Now, Karbine can take advantage of this stun in more ways than one. Obviously, he can stun a character before blasting them with another move (you cannot infinite a character with multiple barrels, though; barrels that hit stunned characters merely bounce them back a set distance). Karbine can also throw a barrel into a barrage of ammunition, so as to throw off a foe's timing with the barrel's slower speed, as well as stun them in your crosshairs. Finally, Karbine can just fire a barrel out in front of him for basic defense (although the lack of priority keeps this tactic a good, not great one).


Basic Attacks


Jab - Laser Beam
Karbine fires a bright red laser beam, almost as thick as R.O.B.'s fully charged, and as long as a Battlefield platform. Lasers are fired horizontally, unless Karbine has locked into a new direction. That's right, all ammo moves change to match the direction you locked into, even if they don't fire in that direction normally. These babies move just a bit slower than kegs. Like kegs and barrels, lasers travel off blast lines unless they hit a character. Foes who touch it get stuck in the beam and carried for its width, before it vanishes, leaving them with 6%.

The ideal use for a laser in a barrage is to send it out once you've knocked a character near a blast line. If they are indeed close enough, the laser will carry the hapless victim right off the map. Because lasers move slower than kegs, not to mention the fact that you're limited to one laser per barrage, you'll need to strategically mix it into your spray of ammo to get this use out of it. A possibility (among others) may be to stun characters with a barrel near the line before sending out the laser to finish the job.

And hey, don't forget that Karbine can simply carry a foe back a bit horizontally onstage without a barrage, if he needs some breathing room to lock onto a new direction.


Dash Attack - Swoop
Karbine screeches, as he scoots forward a Battlefield platform, cannon extended. He doesn't fire anything out, instead using his momentum to slam the foe with his weapon. There are two distinct hitboxes on Karbine's cannon; if a character barely nicks the weapon, they are knocked vertically. If Karbine collides more head-on with his victim, they fly off horizontally. Either way, the knockback is mediocre, and the opponent takes 7%.

Karbine has .1 second lag on both ends of the move, so he doesn't have to worry much about being punished. Make sure to watch out for shield-grabbers, though. An effective tactic may be to fire a barrel at a grounded foe to stun them. Not only will they be unable to harm you, but you'll be able to space yourself from them before attacking more effectively. That way, whether you want to send your opponent up or forward before letting loose a barrage, you'll be all set to get that result.


Forward Tilt - Spark
No, not that...set that went with Pidget.
Down Tilt - Broken Pottery
With a casual sweep of his hand, Dionysus turns his pot into shattered shards (this would be the move name in the MYM4 era...), allowing them to fall to the ground a character width in front of him. Releasing the shards is near lagless; Dionysus then allows the shards to sit for a half second, before they reassemble in his hands instantly. Characters who are hit by the sharp shards take multiple stunning hits of 1% for the duration of the move, as well as a short period afterwards. Stun them near a vineyard for an easy grab, or escape back and drink while they're immobile.

{ 1-8% }

Up Tilt - Potted Plant
A thin green plant begins growing up out of Dionysus' pot, extending up Snake's height in .35 second, before retreating. The move's hitbox emerges when the plant reaches half its full height. If the plant comes into contact with a character, it loops around their leg and slams them to the ground in their downed position, dealing 6%. As with his other two tilts, Dionysus can send vines after the victim to grab them when they get up (time it to avoid them blocked vines with a get-up attack), or flee while they're down. Although Dionysus is best off using his other two tilts for stunning foes for a grab, he can use the plant to throw a character to their doom if he's near an edge. He can also use this as a laser-lock set-up when teamed with a Falco.

{ 6% }

Smashes

Forward Smash - Grape Barrage
Dionysus points forward vigorously, for a barrage of green grapes (different from the purple grapes, which need to be grown by Side Special) to shoot out from his vineyard like bullets. The grapes are the size of a Deku Nut, and travel at Sonic's dash speed off the opposite boundary. Dionysus has .3 second lag on each end of the move, but he doesn't really need to worry about this; his vineyard will shoot the grapes no matter where he's standing. This is the case for all of Dionysus' smashes; they all use the vineyard and can be activated from anywhere. Keep in mind you need a vineyard to perform Dionysus' smashes...

Back to this smash. The barrage of grapes lasts for approximately .5 second; the multiple small hitboxes have the potential to trap characters caught with an initial grape for that whole time. Each grape deals 1%; a barrage of these babies have the potential to deal in the mid-teens, damage-wise. There's no knockback to the move, though; even if the foe is near a boundary, the grapes won't carry them off. Useless smash? Hardly. Looking past the damage-building capabilities, Dionysus can send out vines before unleashing his grapes of wrath, grabbing the foe right out of the barrage in which they're trapped. Try to time the grab so that the vine snares them at the end of the Smash, or a stray grape may hit your opponent out of the grab.


{ 1% per grape }

Down Smash - Hangover Gas
Dionysus sweeps both hands outward with .45 second startup lag, causing purple gas ((SHOCK)) to hiss out, all around his vineyard. By just C-Stick smashing, the gas only covers a Stage Builder block around the vineyard; at full charge, the gas stretches out to two and a half blocks. The gas lasts for a second and a half before vanishing; any characters who are in its midst during this time are put to sleep for the duration of the gas.

Dionysus can then proceed to send a vine after his snoozing victim. Although slightly slower than F-Smash, Dionysus can use this Smash to grab foes more efficiently, as the non-damaging gas won't knock foes out of the vine's grasp. If they're asleep while being grabbed, the character will be unable to mash away until they've woken up. If you don't mind the lack of damage, this is the perfect set-up Smash for Dionysus.


{ 0% }

Up Smash - Vine Pillar
Dionysus points upwards, with .4 second lag on both ends. Immediately after, a pillar of vines, as wide as the vineyard itself, erupts upwards to the upwards blast zone. The vines travel upwards at an incredibly rapid pace, hold their position at the screen top for a split second, before descending back into the vineyard just as fast as they emerged. Dionysus cannot grab while the vines are out, but considering the mass vines' massive hitbox, this isn't a huge issue.

You see, if a character is hit by these tendrils, they are pulled right back down to the vineyard, wrapped in multiple vines. While this itself deals no damage, Dionysus is now allowed three free chained throws on the victim, courtesy of the multiple vines. The throws start automatically; as soon as the foe is thrown once, a vine automatically regrabs them and throws them again, giving them no chance to escape until after the third throw. The charge of the Smash determines the strength of the throws.

At minimum charge, the throws are identical to the usual light throws Dionysus uses, dealing 5% for each throw. Dionysus can use a normal grab on the character after a weakly-charged U-Smash to continue damage-building. At maximum charge, each throw deals 12%, with the last throw dealing knockback that KOs around 145%, just like his powerful regular throw. Dionysus can rack damage and throw multiple characters around like an octopus on crack with this Smash. The strictly vertical hitbox can be awkward to land though; because of this, you may be reduced to using this Smash as means to keep characters out of the sky above your vineyard.


{ 15 - 36% }

Aerials

Neutral Air - Divine Attraction
Dionysus begins glowing with a godly light, covering about the range of those generic spinning attacks Brawl characters (and Stanley) have for N-Airs. He begins glowing after .65 second, and remains shining for nearly three seconds (during which he can move normally). Characters who enter this godly light are captivated by the god of wine, becoming immobile directly where they entered the glow for a full second.

Just because the light deals no damage doesn't mean this move is useless. Oh no. Dionysus can perform his own moves (ala F-Smash, U-Smash) and jump right in, pulling the foe away into a world of hurt, while he is impervious to their effects. He can grab them out of the shine, or in a team battle, position himself in front of a teammate charging a Smash (or Warlock Punch). If he's desperate, Dionysus can simply leap right off the edge for a suicide KO!


{ 0% }

Forward / Back Air - Vine Lasso
Dionysus whips out a vine noose, and whips it forward (backward) a Battlefield platform. He holds it out for as long as Lucas' rope snake before stowing it in his toga. Characters who are caught by the noose (not the vine itself, mind you) are caught by it, like a dog (or...something else) on a rope. Dionysus can hold his slave victim there for as long as a grab. He can take advantage of his victim's immobility much like with N-Air, although the much shorter period of incapacitation makes this much more difficult.

Instead, when a victim is snared, press the control stick in the opposite direction to throw the opponent that way, dealing 7% and moderate set knockback. Dionysus is also turned around by the throw; these aerials can either be used for this, or merely to throw a character toward a vineyard...or teammate's attack.


{ 7% }

Up Air - Blustery Wind
Dionysus points upwards, causing a flurry of vineyard leaves to spin around his head in a vortex. There is little lag on either end of this move; the attack lasts for .6 second by default, but by holding the input, Dionysus can hold the move for up to 1.25 second. Release A and Dionysus ends the vortex.

Characters caught in the spinning leaves take constant hits of 1%, until the vortex ends or is released. At this point, they take knockback that KOs at upwards of 250%. Not great at all, but still enough to toss a foe toward a vineyard. Release the vortex when they're facing in the proper direction; you can even keep them in the vortex for a little longer, so they spin into that direction, taking damage in the process. Touch the ground, however, and the character is released.


{ 1-11% }

Down Air - Plant Stem
Dionysus points down, causing a long green plant stem to rocket down to the ground (or off the bottom blast line), after .5 second startup lag. The stem is rather thin, and can be passed through (no gimping!). A leaf the size of a Stage Builder block rests at the top of the stem. For the 1.5 second the stem lasts, Dionysus can stand on the leaf; it serves as a drop-through platform for characters. Two stems can be out at a time.

If a character is caught underneath the stem as it comes down, they are trapped there for the duration of its lifespan, taking 8%. This can potentially push an aerial character down for an offstage KO, but it's incredibly difficult to set up. Plus, by the time Dionysus has enough damage on a character to get them offstage, he's better off just trying to KO them. By trapping a character under a stem, Dionysus can hit the trapped character toward a vineyard. It's essentially like grabbing and throwing them, without using the actual grab and throw that accompanies the vineyard.

Dionysus has a few other crazy uses for this aerial as well. If he doesn't want to position himself at his vineyard with Up Special, he can use stem platforms to return to the stage. If Dionysus wants to, say, trap a character between a vineyard and himself, this is clearly the superior option, as Up Special would allow the character an opening to escape. All sorts of multiplayer mindgames 'stem' from this move as well. Dionysus can help a poor Ivysaur teammate recover, set up platforms for Silver to move around, or even just short-hop a stem under a character using a laggy aerial, allowing their teammate to take advantage of their landing lag. Don't forget that the teammate can simply charge a Smash in front of a character trapped under a stem...


{ 8% }

Final Smash

Final Smash - Winery of the Ages
Dionysus chuckles warmly, causing the stage to sprout all sorts of plants and floral matter, as well as gain a slight green tint. Vines surround the entire perimeter of the screen, wiggling ominously. Touch these babies, and they'll throw your character around at hyper speed, getting them up past 100% within a few seconds. Your character has no way to escape their ruthless grasp, and will obtain several hundred damage within the ten seconds of the Final Smash. As the vines begin vanishing after this time, the character (still thrown mercilessly) is slowly pulled away to their doom.

Now, here comes the truly frightening aspect of the Final Smash. By grabbing, Dionysus claps his hands, causing every single effin' (it's necessary there, right Wiz?) vine to zoom toward the center of the screen at an unbelievable speed, meeting in the middle. If a character is far away from the center of the screen, they're uck-fayed. In the case that the character is near the center of the stage, they can air dodge to evade the vines (they retract just as rapidly as they came). However, their retraction speed means Dionysus can grab multiple times during one Final Smash. Plus, because the god of wine isn't at risk of being grabbed, he can add to the victim's dilemma; he can push them toward the perimeter with one of the attacks that would ordinarily push a character toward a vineyard, then grab after using a stunning attack.


{ 5% per throw }

Solo Playstyle

All big trees start with a tiny seed. All mighty vineyards start with an initial use of Neutral Special. To remain viable, Dionysus must determine a place to set up his vineyard. Without his vineyard, Dionysus loses to any character...and has trouble with Ganondorf. If you're on a simple stage, setting up your vineyard near the middle of the stage is your best bet, so as to keep your opponent close to it at all times (put it on one side, and your opponent will undoubtedly flee to the opposite side). Dionysus has no need to worry about stage hazards, though; only he can destroy his vineyard once it is grown.

Of course, because your opponent can instantly destroy your vineyard during its growth, Dionysus must defend it immediately after summoning it. Because it is so vital to his game, you must do whatever it takes to prevent it from taking that one little hit that will wither it away. You know those moves designed to push characters toward the vineyard? They can be pulled out here to do the opposite. Walk a victim away with your jab, bowl them away with dash attack, toss them away with F-Air/B-Air...whatever it takes. If your opponent is a pesky camper, you may have to suffer the hits yourself to keep your precious vineyard growing.

Now, your vineyard is grown, and Dionysus is ready for action. At the end of the day, he wants to grab you near his vineyard, use multiple grabs and throws to build damage, then KO you with a strong throw once you have enough damage. Let's break this down so K...kiddies can understand. First and foremost comes getting a character to the vineyard. Because Dionysus' grab can reach out infinitely to grab an opponent, they may seem like the best option. They're not. Although the tendrils can pull a character back quickly enough, they take forever to reach out long distances. Plenty of time for any competent player to time their attack that sends the vines back to where they came from. Remember, any attack will cause a vine to retract, and one attack can cancel out multiple vines at once.

Instead, Dionysus will want to get a character somewhat close to his vineyard before attempting a grab. Side Special is a great tool with which to do so, if Dionysus is standing near the vineyard. If not, he can use moves in the vein of those listed a few paragraphs above that you're more than capable of scrolling up to see, to hit characters toward the vineyard, before grabbing them. Dionysus can activate his grab from anywhere, yes? Once they're close enough, stunning attacks such as your tilts, F-Smash, D-Smash, N-Air, and D-Air prevent characters from simply hitting away vines. You could just try this tactic far away from the vineyard, but waiting for the vines to reach all the way out there just gives victims more time to escape their stun...or to read what you're trying to do, if you send them out before attempting to land a stunner.

Of course, there are times when this strategy is simply not sufficient. Campers, for example, can simply keep Dionysus at bay with their flow of projectiles. Other characters have methods of fleeing away from Dionysus as he attempts to herd them toward a grab. What's he to do? How about growing some grapes in your vineyard with Side Special, then drinking a sweet wine of them with Down Special? If your opponent refuses to cooperate, why not force them to intervene by healing yourself?

Should your rival stay away to camp or flee, Dionysus will have more than enough time to grow some grapes (more than likely an infinite supply of them). Because Dionysus is obnoxiously tough to kill anyways, what with his ability to all but return to his vineyard at will, plus two free platforms for extra jumps (to kill him, you've got to hit him so damn hard that the vine won't have time to grab him back), you'll want to prevent him healing himself at all costs.

Once you've landed a grab, you'll want to get the damage going. Use a light throw and quickly grab, to snatch your victim right back up again. If they are floaty or can DI well, you'll want to place yourself in the direction you're throwing them, and use an immobilizing aerial to ensure their capture. With some practice, damage-stacking with weak throws becomes almost second nature.

Deserving of a mention is Dionysus' pummel; feeding grapes to an opponent give them some extra damage, but it should only be done once they have quite some damage built up. The risk of the opponent escaping is much greater at lower percentages, and you'll want to use that grab to build some actual damage (rather than a measly 1%). Taking control of a character serves no real purpose in a single player match other than to stall (you can't kill them by suiciding, and because they respawn, you can't walk them into a dangerous position and leave them there). You'll really squeeze the juice of usefulness from mind control in team matches.

Now, time to finish off those foolish mortals. Although all of Dionysus' aerials (sans D-Air) have suicide KO potential, Dionysus puts himself at risk to be gimped by recovering opponents hitting his vine when doing so. It's safer (not to mention easier) to simply use a strong throw to toss a victim off a blast zone. The vineyard is fairly tall, so it won't take too long before a vertically-thrown character enters a Star KO. Speaking of strong throws, if Dionysus is getting his ass kicked, try using a strong throw to get some space between him and his opponent, and drink away the pain.

Mastering the god of wine is a matter of the mastering the collaborative use of his powers and those of his vineyard. Learn which of Dionysus' attacks are the most effective in setting a character up for a grab, then finishing the job by using your vineyard to build the damage and throw them away like garbage. Dionysus is quite limited on his own; if he gets gangbanged by an opponent before he can grow his vineyard and use it effectively, he'll find it nearly impossible to come back and win. Work your godly powers and prosper!


Team Playstyle

Dionysus becomes a different character in team battles, for two different reasons. First of all, depending on your teammate, your vineyard's strong throw is no longer your best KO move. In addition, driving a character insane and possessing them becomes infinitely more useful here.

If you pull in a character or two, why waste time and effort tossing them around like juggling balls? Call over Bowser to F-Smash them out of the way, or Meta Knight to grind up against them like a spinning hooker, building damage faster than Dionysus ever could. Wanna heal your teammate by allowing them to use their devouring grab to eat the victim and digest them (I can dream)? Grab a character and give your ravenous friend free reign.

Dionysus serves as an amazing teammate because of his vine grab; even if team attack is on, all your teammate has to do to ensure his safety is to allow an opponent to remain closer to the vineyard, so the vine targets them instead. Even if a teammate is grabbed, Dionysus can still grab while they are being held; even if the teammate can't mash free, Dionysus can skip over his friend to throw his enemy instead.

Dionysus can possess a character in a team battle to stack the odds against his opponent even higher. If you want to KO a certain character, take control of the other one and use their super armor to overwhelm their teammate. Combined with your teammate's attacks, a KO is likely. Even if the possession causes the character to lose their last stock, you can still assume control before they wither away after the allotted fifteen seconds. If your teammate is equipped with stunning attacks, they can stun a grabbed character, allowing Dionysus to force-feed the ten grapes much earlier than usual. If not, the teammate can still fight to keep the victim's teammate from coming to their rescue, while Dionysus puts those big round grapes in their mouth.

Dionysus has little room to deviate from grabbing and throwing characters to build damage and KO in solo matches. When these options are coupled with those of a teammate, the potential domination that can ensue is unholy (proper use of the word). Every grab Dionysus pulls off ensures more damage than usual with your teammate's help; even after this, he can still regrab and continue the madness. Possession's true potential is realized here as well (it's near useless in solo matches, and dangerous to attempt in FFA's). Dionysus is compatible with almost every single character in a team match, allowing for hours of fun to be spent just experimenting with the possibilities of their combined attacks.


Match-Ups

Vs. Dark Bowser: 60/40 - Dionysus' Favor
Dark Bowser can approach Dionysus right off the bat to try preventing him from putting up a vineyard. If he manages to do so, Dionysus is easy pickings; a few measly stunners won't come anywhere close to KOing Dark Bowser. Dark Bowser must keep up pressure on a vulnerable Dionysus though, or he'll set up a vineyard and screw with your game. For starters, Dionysus can allow the vineyard to take the hits of Dark Bowser's camping (the vineyard can't be damaged by enemy fire).

In addition, vines are a major thorn in Dark Bowser's side. Although he can hit away vines just fine, if he whiffs an attack, he's likely to be grabbed and damaged thoroughly. He's heavy, of course, but his size allows for Dionysus to keep grabbing and throwing over and over again. Vines also make caging Dionysus incredibly difficult. Dionysus can use Up Special as a get-out-of-jail-free card while in a cage (it cuts through obstacles). Also, if Dark Bowser is in the cage with the god of wine, any grab vines will pull open cage bars to pull the male heavyweight antagonist out, leaving Dionysus free to escape. To combat this, Dark Bowser should attempt to cage Dionysus as far away from his vineyard as possible, so the vine takes longer to reach the characters.

If Dark Bowser can prevent Dionysus from putting up a vineyard, he walks away with the match easily. At the very least, approaching instantly takes away all the time Dionysus would otherwise have to strategically set up his vineyard. However, the god of wine is more likely than not to get up a vineyard eventually, which really increases the difficulty of the match for Dark Bowser.


Vs. Salamence: 25/75: Salamence's Favor
Dionysus is forced to interrupt Salamence's rage (which he'll be charging from a distance as Dionysus places his vineyard); to do so, he'll have to approach Salamence, or use his Side Special, which takes time to travel long distances. A Dionysus trying to get Salamence to approach is incredibly stupid; Dionysus will find it much more of a threat being KOed earlier with Salamence's powered-up attacks than Salamence does facing a healed Dionysus, when his attacks will KO the god of wine early enough anyways. His speedy aerial abilities can zoom past vines if timed correctly, and Salamence is no slouch at taking out vines either. Another thorn in Dionysus' side is that Salamence can free himself from a grab with Aerial Ace.

Dionysus will have to stick around and stun Salamence to keep him easy-to-grab, but in doing so, he risks getting slashed himself. What with his hefty weight, Salamence can outlast the god of wine with ease. Because of his incredible jumps, he can also attempt to gimp Dionysus without putting himself into much danger. Dionysus will want to keep Salamence on the ground with his anti-air, multi-throw U-Smash. However, even this move misses Salamence if he's not above the vineyard. Because Salamence has a foolproof method of escaping Dionysus' most important move, and is given a chance to prepare said method at the start of most matches, he triumphs over Dionysus more often than not.


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Made you look.

Generic Tiki

 

Lord Viper

SS Rank
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
9,023
Location
Detroit/MI
NNID
LordViper
3DS FC
2363-5881-2519
are u joking if u are awwwwwwwwwwww man if not YEA some who gets my point thats a graet game
You know I'm a keeper of great and under rated games. ;D

At first, I thought that game was bad when it showed on TV, but after I played it, I was hocked on it for hours and hours. @_@


 

Nick The Potato

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
105
Whoever proposed the ganondorf /black shadow proposal, AWESOME IDEA!

A good shock charecter would be sakurai himself.
 

Rhubarbo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,035
The perfect shock character, IMO, is Sukapon. I mean, come ON! he's from nintendo's first fighting game for Petey's sake!
A way to incorporate several classic Nintendo characters (maybe even third party popular NES characters) characters would be to make 9-Volt from Wario Ware playable. He could use classic characters to perform moves for him.
 

WolfCypher

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A way to incorporate several classic Nintendo characters (maybe even third party popular NES characters) characters would be to make 9-Volt from Wario Ware playable. He could use classic characters to perform moves for him.
I would like to see how'd that work (no sarcasm).
 

LSDX

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I told ye all to join to see me destr--er, communicate with SmashBrosMike.

If worst comes to worst, a Smash Bros. DS could be made...

*Shudders*

 

Linkshot

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Dude, you suck at AC.

All you have to do is fish in the ocean while it's raining to pay off your debt. If you play the entire day, you could probably easily make around 200k Bells.

EDIT: To stay on topic, Tom Nook would be awesome. Net, Fishing Rod, Slingshot, Axe.
Final Smash: Hire: Villagers run onto the screen planting random greens along the stage (sporting the Nook Shirt). Flowers do damage and grow large flowers on the opponents' head, and trees have great knockback (pine goes straight up, others diagonal). Afterward, the trees are cut down and fruit falls off of them.
 

SirKibble

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An Animal Crossing character, I like. Tom Nook, though, is infinitely inferior to the Crosser him/herself.
 

SmashBrosMike

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Tom Nook. Uh I can't see it happening. I mean he can't fight, what could he use. rofl.


Also characters that should return for SSB4 should be all of them except I think they should take out Toon Link, R.O.B., and Lucas. There not that interesting.

Also I think Mewtwo should return, but Roy shouldn't Because Roy is a lame Marth Clone glad they took out that clone out.
 

SmashBrosMike

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"interesting" has nothing to do with it. Animal Crosser would be WIN.
Not to be rude, but how can the aNimal Crossing Characters fight. They never fought and don't have anything to use. Come on, Tom Nook would be vaporize so easily in less then a second.
 

Giga Pichu

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says you. there are TONS of possible moves an animal crosser can do.

B-Slingshot-it shoots a pebble....ok.

B down-Axe- chops with axe, moderate damage, good knockback.

B up-Balloon-gets on a balloon and flies up untill it pops

B sides-Pitfall-throws out a pitfall, can get opponent stuck, obviously.

Final Smash-Garage Sale- throws out a bunch of those leaf-things and they sprout into damaging furnature.

THERE, happy?
 

SmashBrosMike

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says you. there are TONS of possible moves an animal crosser can do.

B-Slingshot-it shoots a pebble....ok.

B down-Axe- chops with axe, moderate damage, good knockback.

B up-Balloon-gets on a balloon and flies up untill it pops

B sides-Pitfall-throws out a pitfall, can get opponent stuck, obviously.

Final Smash-Garage Sale- throws out a bunch of those leaf-things and they sprout into damaging furnature.

THERE, happy?
An axe, whoa that will cut someone. But then again sounds cool.
 

Linkshot

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Game & Watch never fought. His games were all about avoidance.
ROB never shot lasers.

Toon Link, ROB, and especially Lucas should stay.

Toon is my favourite Link. ROB is revolutionary. Mother 3 was a very special game. Of its time, it was wanted more than a new Final Fantasy. It has an amazing storyline. And don't say "He doesn't count because his game's Japanese and I can't play it." There is a fan translation. Every single word fits the EarthBound style.

I'll agree that Toon Link needs to be redone. Both PSI/PK boys need to be redone. Mewtwo should definitely get back in. For SSB4 for me, it's both Lucario and Mewtwo or neither. Not just Lucario. Not just Mewtwo. They both deserve a spot. Pokemon Trainer does. Pikachu MAYBE for Yellow. Jigglypuff, no. It's anime-based. Give me the three original Eeveelutions in Trainer form for a fourth.

Another thing. I SAID what Tom Nook could use. He'd use the tools for his standard attacks, then do something special with them for his Specials. I said his Final Smash. He would work perfectly. Also, for nostalgia, they can give him multiple "raccoon float" jumps.

Yes, Axes cut people. And what, Marth tippers don't slice people open with ease?
 

SmashBrosMike

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Game & Watch never fought. His games were all about avoidance.
ROB never shot lasers.

Toon Link, ROB, and especially Lucas should stay.

Toon is my favourite Link. ROB is revolutionary. Mother 3 was a very special game. Of its time, it was wanted more than a new Final Fantasy. It has an amazing storyline. And don't say "He doesn't count because his game's Japanese and I can't play it." There is a fan translation. Every single word fits the EarthBound style.

I'll agree that Toon Link needs to be redone. Both PSI/PK boys need to be redone. Mewtwo should definitely get back in. For SSB4 for me, it's both Lucario and Mewtwo or neither. Not just Lucario. Not just Mewtwo. They both deserve a spot. Pokemon Trainer does. Pikachu MAYBE for Yellow. Jigglypuff, no. It's anime-based. Give me the three original Eeveelutions in Trainer form for a fourth.

Another thing. I SAID what Tom Nook could use. He'd use the tools for his standard attacks, then do something special with them for his Specials. I said his Final Smash. He would work perfectly. Also, for nostalgia, they can give him multiple "raccoon float" jumps.
Well if they change Toon Link's moveset then he is good to go.
 

Giga Pichu

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Eating your DINNER, and saying MAH BOI.
Got a good moveset for Toon already :)

B-Wind Waker-he will play a song, creating a mini tornado. can be charged.

B down-Skull Hammer-Brings down his hammer, can also be charged for maximum damage.

B up-Deku Leaf-works like Peaches Parasol,Sens opponents flying to the sides.

B sides-Spin attack-his allows him to move around like Luigi's Tornado, sucks in opponents.

Final Smash-Phantom Hourglass-Slows down time, and makes shadow beasts attack.
 

MasterWarlord

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There's a moveset somewhere for Toon Link that's redone in both 4.0 and 3.0 by two different authors if you're so interested in making Toon Link Original.

@Kibble: I'd prefer Resetii, but Tom Nook's the most likely due to his iconic status. The Crosser has no fans and is horribly generic. Tom Nook is generic, sure, but at least he's not a character creation tempplate. Tom Nook could do everything the crosser could do and more with his status as a racoon. The Animal Crosser also isn't a big name like Tom Nook even if he is a big appearance, as "Animal Crosser" is a fan-made name for him.

Basically, Nook's more likely and would be better IMO.

@SmashBrosMike: Anyone can be made a moveset. We have bloody PEACH on the roster. See MYM for proof.
 

SmashBrosMike

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True, the smash series needs more females though.


Lyndis (Fire Emblem)

Mona (Wario Ware)

Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)

Krystal (Star Fox)

Lip (Panel De Pon)


And Sakurai please do not add in Toon Zelda. If I have to see a another Toon character. I'm going to flip.
 

MasterWarlord

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I'm also rather against Toons as well, but rest assured Mike, there won't be another toon Zelda character ever again, and Toon Link's the likliest character to get cut after Lucario.

I honestly don't think we'll get any new females in SSB4, they're all very undeserving and not that popular aside from Krystal, who is from a microscopic series which has become mediocre as of late. Dixie's somewhat deserving, but is completely and utterly outclassed by K. Rool, and there's no way both will get in.
 

SmashBrosMike

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I'm also rather against Toons as well, but rest assured Mike, there won't be another toon Zelda character ever again, and Toon Link's the likliest character to get cut after Lucario.

I honestly don't think we'll get any new females in SSB4, they're all very undeserving and not that popular aside from Krystal, who is from a microscopic series which has become mediocre as of late. Dixie's somewhat deserving, but is completely and utterly outclassed by K. Rool, and there's no way both will get in.
What so your saying both Dixie and K. Rool won't make the cut. That sucks!
 

Linkshot

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No. He's saying only one will get in.

I would love to see Tetra in.

Here's an equation for you. The more you hate the Toon games solely for appearance, the more I hate you. The graphics are awesome and Wind Waker is an amazing game. Phantom Hourglass nearly flunked.

EDIT: Important! Opinions opinions.
 

SmashBrosMike

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No. He's saying only one will get in.

I would love to see Tetra in.

Here's an equation for you. The more you hate the Toon games solely for appearance, the more I hate you. The graphics are awesome and Wind Waker is an amazing game. Phantom Hourglass nearly flunked.

EDIT: Important! Opinions opinions.
So K. Rool will get in. Good.
 

Linkshot

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Alright. Sorry for back there. I just had an outburst and lashed out at the ignorance.

I'm okay now, and will sit back and let the pros take care of it.

EDIT: To stay on topic...

Sadly, yes. As much as I hate even the concept of a 5th generation after seeing the Rotom forms, it will have to be represented. I only hope that they stick to purely animals. What I can't understand, though, is what they'll do for legendaries. They've already made the be-all-end-all. What more is there to it? ...oh god.

It's going to turn into another "Mewtwo VS Lucario" hatefest, only "Lucario VS fifth-gen" obv.
 
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