[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[DekuBoy]

We've never had a 3rd gen Pokemon rep. So sad. Gardevoir would be my choice.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Lucario is everything wrong with Pokemon games today. When the next shiny and flashy Pokeomon comes out for the next gen, no one will care.

Poliwhirl was always my favorite since Red & Blue, before I even knew where Japan was.

 

[WolfCypher]

And yes, Lucario is a terrible battling Pokemon, which is why he's currently in the OU tier.

Sarcasm? If so, my point exactly. OVERUSED = Good.

We've never had a 3rd gen Pokemon rep. So sad. Gardevoir would be my choice.

We didn't get a Smash game during the 3rd Gen era. Plusle & Minun...possibilities...they could NOT have been as bad as Melee's Pichu.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Maybe Lucario is supposed to represent competitive Pokemon battling. He's the only Pokemon Smash character who's in the same "tier" in both tournament Smash and competitive battling.

 

[WolfCypher]

While Jigglypuff is in the bottom of the barrel in both communities!

 

[flyinfilipino]

While Jigglypuff is in the bottom of the barrel in both communities!

Well, uh...in Melee she wasn't...and Mewtwo was.

 

[WolfCypher]

Well, uh...in Melee she wasn't...and Mewtwo was.

Yeah I remember sadly...Jiggs better than Mewtwo...that's like Clay Aiken and Solid Snake switching sexual preferences.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yeah I remember sadly...Jiggs better than Mewtwo...that's like Clay Aiken and Solid Snake switching sexual preferences.

Good analogy.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Well for SSB4. I think that they are all going to be in as playable characters.

Since they are all the msot requested characters.

So it is very likely that Geno, Megaman, Ridley, and King K. Rool are going to be included as playable characters since they are some of the most requested characters on the top of the poll. Although Megaman, King K. Rool, and Geno will more likey be playable then Ridley since Sakurai is always using that exuse "HE'S TOO BIG!"

 

[Linkshot]

Theory:

Sakurai's beef with the Pokemon Company is that they endorse competitive play.

Yes/No?

 

[SmashBrosMike]

So King K. Rool, Megaman, and Geno will be playable Characters in SSB4 since they are some of the most requested characters on the top of the poll. Ridley is there though the other three has better chances.


Does anyone think of a good moveset for Megaman. I would like to see how it would be like. (Hopefully he won't be a Samus Clone or I'll be really pissed)

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well for SSB4. I think that they are all going to be in as playable characters.

Since they are all the msot requested characters.

So it is very likely that Geno, Megaman, Ridley, and King K. Rool are going to be included as playable characters since they are some of the most requested characters on the top of the poll. Although Megaman, King K. Rool, and Geno will more likey be playable then Ridley since Sakurai is always using that exuse "HE'S TOO BIG!"

That's what everyone said for Brawl.

Theory:

Sakurai's beef with the Pokemon Company is that they endorse competitive play.

Yes/No?

Nah.

 

[WolfCypher]

I don't think a character will be in just due to popularity. Well, it works both ways actually. Of course when a character is being clamored for to the point that it can't be ignored (Sonic), that character will eventually make the cut, but sometimes a bad idea can be highly requested, and popularity for that character shouldn't blind us to the fact that that character is a "bad" choice (opinions opinions?).

 

[SmashBrosMike]

I don't think a character will be in just due to popularity. Well, it works both ways actually. Of course when a character is being clamored for to the point that it can't be ignored (Sonic), that character will eventually make the cut, but sometimes a bad idea can be highly requested, and popularity for that character shouldn't blind us to the fact that that character is a "bad" choice (opinions opinions?).

I'm sure they will be in though.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm sure they will be in though.

Great. *waits impatiently to see if you're wrong or right*

 

[Skyshroud]

Does anyone think of a good moveset for Megaman. I would like to see how it would be like. (Hopefully he won't be a Samus Clone or I'll be really pissed)

There's already two good megaman movesets in MYM, plus I'm sure there have been more in past MYM contests. Please search before posting useless stuff.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

There's already two good megaman movesets in MYM, plus I'm sure there have been more in past MYM contests. Please search before posting useless stuff.

Okay thanks.

I just hope that they will all be in SSB4 (including King K. Rool)

We need more villains!

Muahahahahahahaha rise of the Nintendo Villains.

 

[kuro06]

He isn't better as a SSE Boss. Every character has potential to be playable, Sakurai is simply a horribly uncreative unimaginitive individual. People have made a moveset for A ROCK in MYM.

People who think Ridley is unviable suck at making movesets terribly.

So him not making Ridley a PC makes him a horrible uncreative unimaginitive individual?
from the way I see it..he did a good job some very orginal characters your just being whiney because your favorite character was a boss. Also there's a big difference between writing a moveset and actually designing it.

 

[Linkshot]

G&W probably looked like a bad idea at first, but look at him now.

P.S.: That means I like his style.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay thanks.

I just hope that they will all be in SSB4 (including King K. Rool)

We need more villains!

Muahahahahahahaha rise of the Nintendo Villains.

Me too. The villains don't have much representation, IMO.

 

[flyinfilipino]

So him not making Ridley a PC makes him a horrible uncreative unimaginitive individual?
from the way I see it..he did a good job some very orginal characters your just being whiney because your favorite character was a boss. Also there's a big difference between writing a moveset and actually designing it.

I don't think Ridley's even his favorite character. Just let him live in his fantasy world where having good ideas on paper make you the more creative individual.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Hey now that I think of it. Do anyone think Assist Trophies should return if so. I have some characters that fit well.

I can see Birdo as an assist trophy. She could walk around and shoot out eggs giving characters damage.

Kanden from Metroid Prime Hunters. Kanden could use his volt driver to attack while going around the stage and sometimes change into his Larva Form.

and King Bulblin & Lord Bullbo. They can just run around the stage throwing bombs and ramming into characters.

They could fit well as Assist Trophies. If anyone agrees.

 

[WolfCypher]

Me too. The villains don't have much representation, IMO.

And that's Geno's one and only claim to fame.

SMRPG. That's it. That one game. A game where he wsn't even the main chaarcter. A game where you didn't always even have to use him, making him an optional party member most of the game. That one game from many years ago.

Yes. Geno MUST be in Sma...Uhhh, I can't even finish my sarcasm...

 

[flyinfilipino]

And that's Geno's one and only claim to fame.

SMRPG. That's it. That one game. A game where he wsn't even the main chaarcter. A game where you didn't always even have to use him, making him an optional party member most of the game. That one game from many years ago.

Yes. Geno MUST be in Sma...Uhhh, I can't even finish my sarcasm...

You could say the exact same thing about Lucario (ok, he's been in three games, D/P/Pl).

But there's always special circumstances. Almost every character has them. That's why Smash is so unpredictably fun!

 

[SirKibble]

So him not making Ridley a PC makes him a horrible uncreative unimaginitive individual?
from the way I see it..he did a good job some very orginal characters your just being whiney because your favorite character was a boss. Also there's a big difference between writing a moveset and actually designing it.

For the record, I'm with Warlord on that one. Sakurai's not nearly as imaginative or creative as he could be. Over in the Make Your Move threads, we've seen some insanely creative ideas, many of which wouldn't be hard to actually implement in Smash. Besides, the writing of the moveset is where the creativity factors in.

Oh, and also for the record, I can safely say that I'm not whining because my favorite character was a boss. My favorite character in Nintendo history is playable, and I don't even support Ridley getting into Smash, but Sakurai's still not as creative as you think he is.

 

[WolfCypher]

Lucario has been in more stuff in a short period of time than Geno. It can hold its own as a standout character better than a random semi-3rd party character from yester-century, too.

Now, FlyingF, had you compared Geno to Pit, that would be a debate!

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Anyone like the ideas of Birdo, Kanden, and King Bulblin & Lord Bullbo as assist trophy characters for SSB4.

 

[flyinfilipino]

For the record, I'm with Warlord on that one. Sakurai's not nearly as imaginative or creative as he could be. Over in the Make Your Move threads, we've seen some insanely creative ideas, many of which wouldn't be hard to actually implement in Smash. Besides, the writing of the moveset is where the creativity factors in.

Oh, and also for the record, I can safely say that I'm not whining because my favorite character was a boss. My favorite character in Nintendo history is playable, and I don't even support Ridley getting into Smash, but Sakurai's still not as creative as you think he is.

Of course, there still room for new ideas in Smash. Just keep in mind that Sakurai started with something in Smash 64. It was an unprecedented, novel, amazing idea at the time. Melee took upon it and expanded it with many new and zany ideas. Think transformations, a double character, a 2-D character, and pretty much every other thing that you couldn't do in Smash 64. Brawl came along and put a few more new ideas in. It's easy to come up with new, different ideas after seeing all of these play out. But you've gotta also think about what it took to get to that level in the first place. In other words, step back and look at the big picture. Sakurai's gone and made something huge. You can't call him a horrible, uncreative individual when he's gone and created Smash Bros. as we know it. There are always other constraints and things when making big games, but we won't get into that.

In conclusion, yeah, there's always room for new and crazy ideas, but don't forget about everything we already have.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Sakurai only mentioned he'd had some issues with the Pokemon Company, the extent or effects of which are unknown.

Also, lol at Sakurai being horribly uncreative. Lol at thinking being able to write things on paper makes you a better designer.

And yes, Lucario is a terrible battling Pokemon, which is why he's currently in the OU tier.

The tiers actually reflect use of the Pokemon as well as stats. There's a reason overused is called overused.

Sorry that I could make one of Sakurai's movesets literally in about 5 minutes. Sakurai is a horribly umaginitive person if he couldn't make Ridley a moveset, much less with how generic the attacks he makes aer for every character. Of course writing things on paper alone doesn't make me better, but they do when they're infitely more original, play like nobody else in the cast, balanced, and fitting to the character then Sakurai's pathetic works. You just said better designer yourself, not implementer. Of course I can't implement the movesets myself due to not being a programmer, but I would love to order around the programmers to get exactly what I want. The designer's job.

If it's so easy to come up with new unique ideas Filipino, why do all o fOlimar's attacks (Considerd one of the most original characters in Brawl) involve him throwing Pikmin, and all of MK's attacks sword slashes?

 

[LSDX]

And that's Geno's one and only claim to fame.

SMRPG. That's it. That one game. A game where he wsn't even the main chaarcter. A game where you didn't always even have to use him, making him an optional party member most of the game. That one game from many years ago.

Yes. Geno MUST be in Sma...Uhhh, I can't even finish my sarcasm...

*Watches joo*

 

[flyinfilipino]

The tiers actually reflect use of the Pokemon as well as stats. There's a reason overused is called overused.

Sorry that I could make one of Sakurai's movesets literally in about 5 minutes. Sakurai is a horribly umaginitive person if he couldn't make Ridley a moveset, much less with how generic the attacks he makes aer for every character. Of course writing things on paper alone doesn't make me better, but they do when they're infitely more original, play like nobody else in the cast, balanced, and fitting to the character then Sakurai's pathetic works. You just said better designer yourself, not implementer. Of course I can't implement the movesets myself due to not being a programmer, but I would love to order around the programmers to get exactly what I want. The designer's job.

If it's so easy to come up with new unique ideas Filipino, why do all o fOlimar's attacks (Considerd one of the most original characters in Brawl) involve him throwing Pikmin, and all of MK's attacks sword slashes?

First sentence: what?

Second Paragraph: It's so easy to say this after the fact. So easy. Your Sakurai bias has blinded you, and that's all I will say about that.

Third Part: Let's see. Olimar commands Pikmin. That's what he does. He's pretty much defenseless otherwise. That's why theirs is a symbiotic relationship.

Meta Knight...uses a sword. That's why he's holding one. How does changing one of his attacks into a non-sword attack he's used in his games make him infinitely more original? And more original compared to what?

 

[SirKibble]

Of course, there still room for new ideas in Smash. Just keep in mind that Sakurai started with something in Smash 64. It was an unprecedented, novel, amazing idea at the time. Melee took upon it and expanded it with many new and zany ideas. Think transformations, a double character, a 2-D character, and pretty much every other thing that you couldn't do in Smash 64. Brawl came along and put a few more new ideas in. It's easy to come up with new, different ideas after seeing all of these play out. But you've gotta also think about what it took to get to that level in the first place. In other words, step back and look at the big picture. Sakurai's gone and made something huge. You can't call him a horrible, uncreative individual when he's gone and created Smash Bros. as we know it. There are always other constraints and things when making big games, but we won't get into that.

In conclusion, yeah, there's always room for new and crazy ideas, but don't forget about everything we already have.

Oh, but of course. I don't consider him horrible or anything. All I'm saying is that he could do a lot more. He up and made a moveset for the Ice Climbers, which is awesome, but he says it would be hard for Ridley? Now... Either the man just doesn't like Ridley, or he's really not as creative as we thought. There are really only two other points against him, only one of which is really valid.

First issue is clones. Characters like Falco and Young/Toon Link really don't need to share quite as much as they do with their counterparts. Brawl's made a better effort than Melee to dispose of them, but really, I don't think anyone can step back and then deny that Ganondorf's current moveset is a crying shame.

Secondly, and not so importantly, is what Warlord pointed out. Olimar throws and swings Pikmin for, like, all of his attacks. Meta Knight has a grand total of two moves that don't involve his sword. Now, that's excusable for the most part, as those are their primary methods of attacking and that keeps the Standard Attacks relatively common to all characters and makes the Specials more special...but there is a little more liberty that could be taken there, methinks. Not so much in the changing of the weaponry, but in the changing of the attacks. Olimar's F-Air, B-Air, and D-Air are all the exact same thing, just in different directions. All I would ask is that they're made a little more unique.

 

[MasterWarlord]

. . .If Sakurai posted one of his movesets for MYM, he'd fail horribly and people would critize his movesets to no end. Yes, that's pretending the characters he submitted wern't actually in Smash. Now do you see where I'm coming from?

Sakurai's movesets are trash and could be thought up in 5 minutes. I'm not saying I could program them because I can't, but I'd consantly send my programmers back to work when they got my moveset wrong. Putting it down on paper is what I'm talking about. . .Do you think Sakurai programs the characters in himself? No, he has people to do that for him. All he has to do is tell them what to do.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Oh, but of course. I don't consider him horrible or anything. All I'm saying is that he could do a lot more. He up and made a moveset for the Ice Climbers, which is awesome, but he says it would be hard for Ridley? Now... Either the man just doesn't like Ridley, or he's really not as creative as we thought. There are really only two other points against him, only one of which is really valid.

First issue is clones. Characters like Falco and Young/Toon Link really don't need to share quite as much as they do with their counterparts. Brawl's made a better effort than Melee to dispose of them, but really, I don't think anyone can step back and then deny that Ganondorf's current moveset is a crying shame.

Secondly, and not so importantly, is what Warlord pointed out. Olimar throws and swings Pikmin for, like, all of his attacks. Meta Knight has a grand total of two moves that don't involve his sword. Now, that's excusable for the most part, as that keeps the Standard Attacks relatively common to all characters and makes the Specials more special...but there is a little more liberty that could be taken there, methinks.

If I was Sakurai (read: in my humble opinion), I would keep Ridley as a boss. Not because I couldn't come up with a moveset for him or anything, but I think the role just suits him better. He's not ever the main boss of the Metroid games and just kinda pops up when he feels like it. Note that these aren't reasons for him not to become playable, it's just my opinion (opinions opinions).

You're right on the clone part. I'd attribute it to the fact that the clones were the last characters to be programmed in Melee to add more characters, but some worked out so well that Sakurai wanted to keep their styles in Brawl as well. But yeah, those characters didn't need to be clones in the first place.

I already explained why they play the way they do, and I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

So like I said, and agree with you about, more liberty could be taken, but that's no reason to bash the guy and label him as "horribly uncreative".

 

[MasterWarlord]

It's not so much throwing around my ego as it is horribly disagreeing with you. When you basically bluntly tell me my beautiful movesets are worse then Sakurai's pathetic designs, you make me want to go jump off a building.

 

[flyinfilipino]

It's not so much throwing around my ego as it is horribly disagreeing with you. When you basically bluntly tell me my beautiful movesets are worse then Sakurai's pathetic designs, you make me want to go jump off a building.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

The point of MYM is to try to make a moveset as different from anything in Smash as possible. There's no point in trying to compare something you came up with to try and be different from Sakurai with something that Sakurai's already made. It doesn't reflect any superiority between either of you at all. Get it? It's such a pointless argument.

 

[SirKibble]

If I was Sakurai (read: in my humble opinion), I would keep Ridley as a boss. Not because I couldn't come up with a moveset for him or anything, but I think the role just suits him better. He's not ever the main boss of the Metroid games and just kinda pops up when he feels like it. Note that these aren't reasons for him not to become playable, it's just my opinion (opinions opinions).

You're right on the clone part. I'd attribute it to the fact that the clones were the last characters to be programmed in Melee to add more characters, but some worked out so well that Sakurai wanted to keep their styles in Brawl as well. But yeah, those characters didn't need to be clones in the first place.

I already explained why they play the way they do, and I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

So like I said, and agree with you about, more liberty could be taken, but that's no reason to bash the guy and label him as "horribly uncreative". Also, thanks SirKibble for not feeling the need to throw your ego around in every post.

I'd keep Ridley how he is as well, but if I remember correctly, there was an interview with Sakurai somewhere where he said that making a moveset for Ridley would be very difficult. Or maybe he just said making him playable would be difficult... I can't exactly remember.

On clones, I can agree with you, outside of Ganondorf. I can definitely see Falco, Young Link, Roy, Pichu, and Dr. Mario all being thrown in last-minute, kind of as afterthoughts. Ganondorf's status as a clone is what kills me. Heck, I don't even like the guy, but his moveset still irks me. I just can't see him having been added just "to add more characters." I agree with you, too, about keeping their styles. Just look at Falco and Toon Link (who's, of course, pretty much Young Link). They were kept somewhat the same, and were also somewhat changed. It would make sense if a steady transition was being made toward making them more individual, since people grew attached to their old movesets.

Anyway, yeah, like I said, I don't think Sakurai's horribly uncreative or anything. Honestly, there's got to be a lot of pressure involved. Can't be easy, but the guy does an all right job. And if you want an example of how creative he can be, look at Mr. Game & Watch's moveset. That thing is golden! It's just a shame every moveset in Smash isn't of that calibre. And about the ego thing: you're quite welcome. I figure working out a misunderstanding or disagreement is a lot easier on everyone than throwing the same arguments back and forth for a few pages.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'd keep Ridley how he is as well, but if I remember correctly, there was an interview with Sakurai somewhere where he said that making a moveset for Ridley would be very difficult. Or maybe he just said making him playable would be difficult... I can't exactly remember.

On clones, I can agree with you, outside of Ganondorf. I can definitely see Falco, Young Link, Roy, Pichu, and Dr. Mario all being thrown in last-minute, kind of as afterthoughts. Ganondorf's status as a clone is what kills me. Heck, I don't even like the guy, but his moveset still irks me. I just can't see him having been added just "to add more characters." I agree with you, too, about keeping their styles. Just look at Falco and Toon Link (who's, of course, pretty much Young Link). They were kept somewhat the same, and were also somewhat changed. It would make sense if a steady transition was being made toward making them more individual, since people grew attached to their old movesets.

Anyway, yeah, like I said, I don't think Sakurai's horribly uncreative or anything. Honestly, there's got to be a lot of pressure involved. Can't be easy, but the guy does an all right job. And if you want an example of how creative he can be, look at Mr. Game & Watch's moveset. That thing is golden! It's just a shame every moveset in Smash isn't of that calibre. And about the ego thing: you're quite welcome. I figure working out a misunderstanding or disagreement is a lot easier on everyone than throwing the same arguments back and forth for a few pages.

Something like that about Ridley. But when was that interview done again?

You're right, Ganondorf as a character is much more important. Maybe he just wanted to take the opportunity to implement him into Smash as soon as he could. *shrug*

And yeah, Mr. Game and Watch's moveset is pretty awesome, considering it's supposed to represent the many many games he's been in. Some characters don't have the luxury of having so many sources to pull from though. I guess you just can't really please everyone with what you can come up with in the end.

After finally getting Kirby Super Star Ultra, I have now realized the origin of your username!

 

[SirKibble]

Something like that about Ridley. But when was that interview done again?

I actually don't remember. Ah, well. Doesn't really matter much, I guess.

You're right, Ganondorf as a character is much more important. Maybe he just wanted to take the opportunity to implement him into Smash as soon as he could. *shrug*

That's possible. I don't know, though, there may be other factors that we don't know about.

And yeah, Mr. Game and Watch's moveset is pretty awesome, considering it's supposed to represent the many many games he's been in. Some characters don't have the luxury of having so many sources to pull from though. I guess you just can't really please everyone with what you can come up with in the end.

True enough. The variety is awesome, but some of the little quirks are also stuff that I'm talking about. Everything from the unique counter mechanic of the bucket, to the air push effect on his Up Air. If you ask me, Game & Watch is Sakurai's movesets at their best, and it is goooooood.

After finally getting Kirby Super Star Ultra, I have now realized the origin of your username!

Lol, awesome. Yes, indeed, 'tis my Kirby obsession that gave me this username. Has nothing to do with dawg food.

 

[WolfCypher]

Ridley would be a no-win situation. If Ridley was resized, he would look pathetic. I look back at Melee's intro and think "that's the Ridley we could have gotten? Ehh..." It works better with taking tiny characters and making them bigger to fit in, but a character like Ridley only works if is porportions aren't ****ed with. Keeping Ridley big would be stupid. Here we'd have a huge target character. If his speed was left unchanged, then he'd be broken; huge power and great speed? No thanks. Or he'd be an inaccurately slow character, making him easy pickings; a slow as hell monstrosity.

So you even have Sakurai haters who hate on him for not putting a character that wouldn't work faithfully in, or Sakurai gets hate for putting him in and the fans wouldn't like what they got, which it must not be easy to give a 100% accurate Ridley with minor alterrations to fit in, and still work.

Let's call it what it is: Metroid has 0 characters worth using. Samus and Ridley...wow...that's...IT. This is why I keep pushing for those MPH bounty hunters (Sylux) to become major recurring characters. Sylux himself already has a story just waiting to be fleshed out.