[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[kr3wman]

Then by all means, they should do it. But they should not look down on those who don't choose to play that way, whether by choice or not. Some of us like to play the games without searching for little things we can exploit. That really doesn't mean we're stupid and don't appreciate the game to its fullest. That's all I'm saying.

No pro look down on scrubs.

It's the scrubs that haven't realized yet why how the pros play.

 

[flyinfilipino]

They're not, however, there so that "in the know" Pokemon fans can completely control how their Pokemon grow stat-wise, thereby making ridiculously powerful Pokemon: impossible when playing the game unaware of EVs and IVs.

The EV-reducing Berries (if you know what I mean) are clearly labeled for use by people that know about EVs, so I think there's some acknowledgement there.

Then by all means, they should do it. But they should not look down on those who don't choose to play that way, whether by choice or not. Some of us like to play the games without searching for little things we can exploit. That really doesn't mean we're stupid and don't appreciate the game to its fullest. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think anyone on this thread has looked down on anyone yet. Some people are just pointing out that there is a level of depth that people can strive for if that's what they want.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Then by all means, they should do it. But they should not look down on those who don't choose to play that way, whether by choice or not. Some of us like to play the games without searching for little things we can exploit. That really doesn't mean we're stupid and don't appreciate the game to its fullest. That's all I'm saying.

^ What I was going to say, in a nutshell.

That's stupid. Intentionally playing the game in a way that makes it have less depth.

I'll sacrifice any amount of depth for the combatants to not look like meth addicts wearing cement shoes and suffering from sudden bouts of spastic ***********.

Meth Addicts = quick, jerky movement

Cement Shoes = constant fastfalling and short-hopping

Spastic *********** = constant jumping shout/noise due to wavedash

Personally I think it just looks too...strange. That's the primary reason I don't play like that. But to each his own.

I don't think anyone on this thread has looked down on anyone yet.

A page or two back, someone looked down on the "kids that are ruining Pokemon" because they don't know about IVs and EVs, which is how this whole thing got started.

I know at least two Pokefans that started out in D/P that can not only whup my butt in the games, but also have nearly-complete Dex's, yet don't know about IVs and EVs. They certainly aren't unappreciative of the series, nor are they ruining it by any means.

And I forgot about the EV berries...

...Uhm...my best defense on that is that the devs weren't going to completely rework the entire foundation of the game, so had to leave EVs and IVs in it, and decided to throw their most dedicated fans a bone. Either that or they're just another element to make the growth process even more random, and therefore more unique (or so the theory goes).

 

[Firus]

The Pokemon franchise hasn't alienated its older fans in the main games.

Are you sure you've played Pokemon Diamond/Pearl?

Those Pokemon aren't popular and they won't advertise. It just won't happen. MAYBE there's a 1% chance or something of them being in but you can say that about anyone. ROB is extremely important to Nintendo's history and he had been making a lot of cameos lately so that's why he's in. I really don't see your point with Fire Emblem.

If you didn't notice I was replying to a Pokemon roster with 9 Pokemon on it.

I don't mean Pokemon is only for kids, I know all about EVs and IVs since I used to play before it got boring. I mean it's target audience is kids and most of the fanbase is kids. Blaming kids for more legendaries is just stupid. It's not like there is solid proof they caused that. It was probably just the Pokemon developers being extremely stupid again.

My point with both of those is that a character doesn't need to advertise to be in the game.
I'm not by any means saying either of them don't belong there, I'm not one of those people who is upset because ROB replaced whatever character, because he didn't.

Sorry, I thought you were saying the normal amount of Pokemon in the game. 9 reps is a little much, unless the other franchises matched it.

All of the Pokemon fansites would beg to disagree with you. I really don't know how the population of them calculates into the entire population of Pokemon fans, but there are a lot of older fans.

And there is no solid proof that the kids are the ones getting over 9000 legendaries in there, but I don't think you need proof to safely assume that the little kids are the ones who are so fond of the legendaries, and they're the ones Nintendo's catering to.

THIS SH*T JUST GOT REAL, YO

I was going to stay out of this, but this is a horribly stilted view of things. Nobody is supposed to know about EVs, IVs, or anything. God, I hate it when people bring that up like it somehow makes them superior as far as Pokemon is concerned

No, really? I'm stupid and thought that they told you all of this stuff.

It's still an advanced type of play that kids can't understand.

No, it just means that there's a level of depth in the game that little kids can't appreciate.

EDIT: But the Effort Ribbon lady told me my Pokemon worked really hard!

And this. ^

Spoiler

Lulz at the Effort Ribbon lady.

No, it just means that some really obsessive fans found the mechanic the developers put in there with the intent of making each player's Pokemon adventure unique, ensuring no two Pokemon are ever the same.

And when they found this, they exploited it in ways it wasn't meant to be used.

Sound familiar?

What he said...

Honestly, I don't give a **** if the developers meant it to be top secret, they put it in there and made it findable, and enhanced gameplay much more. Otherwise we'd all be headless chickens when it comes to training our Pokemon perfectly, aside from the Natures we give them. Not knowing about EVs helps nothing except for casual play.

Coincidentally, I didn't wavedash in Melee, despite knowing of it and how to perform it.

I just feel that way about stuff like that. Glitches that are just random and fun (like the guy on Cinnabar Island's Gym Roof) are one thing, but playing the game contrary to how it was intended just doesn't sit well with me.

THEY ARE NOT GLITCHES.
I swear to god, I hate it when people say that. It's an exploitation of something in the game. It's NOT a glitch. EVs are CERTAINLY not a glitch, and that's what you're comparing Wavedashing to so I'm not entirely sure why you're saying that.
If you honestly believe EVs are glitches then...wow.

How is the game intended to be played?

Exactly.

That's stupid. Intentionally playing the game in a way that makes it have less depth.

This.

Quoted for pure, untainted, flawless, perfectly epic truth.

Games are for fun, not for exploitation of functions and mechanics.

Oddly enough, I don't give a **** how it's meant to be played.

As was said, what if it's more fun that way?

And Duct Tape is to tape things up but you can make wallets or bags or DS cases out of it, and that's a lot more fun than its normal use. Who gives a crap what they're meant for?

 

[Spire]

Back to the Pokemon debate. Classic characters will always be dominant. Why? Because they introduced the series. Who are the only playable Mario characters in Smash Bros? Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and to a lesser degree, Yoshi and Wario. How long have they been around? FOREVER. You don't see Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Baby Mario Bros, Toadsworth, Dimentio, or any of the newer, less prominent characters playable, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T IMPORTANT AND DID NOT BRING THE SERIES TO FAME (yes this is directed at hippochinfat! for the most part).

Pokemon, again. Who made it popular? Pikachu, Jigglypuff, the three 1st Gen starter families, Mewtwo, and the other 139/151 original Pokemon. Who made Mario popular? Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser, and not too far into the future after that, Yoshi and Wario. Who made Zelda popular? Link, Zelda, and Ganon. Who's playable? Link, Zelda, and Ganon (don't give me **** about Sheik or Toon Link, because both ARE Zelda and Link, period). Who made Donkey Kong popular? Donkey Kong; and who helped in reviving it? Diddy Kong.

Honestly, if Smash Bros is a game series to celebrate the Nintendo All-Stars, then the classic characters must be celebrated, not the extra, filler characters like Lucario. The characters chosen for Brawl were chosen out of: a) popularity (hence why Lucario got in), and b) importance. Marth is important to the beginning era of Fire Emblem, and Ike is important to the current era of Fire Emblem. Where does Roy stand? NO WHERE. Unfortunately, this 'beginning and current' trend affects Pokemon, and will continue to do so, repping new generations to come. You know that all we need is Pokemon Trainer (with the Pokemon families he has now), Pikachu, Jiggs, and Mewtwo. You know it.

 

[SirKibble]

I don't think anyone on this thread has looked down on anyone yet. Some people are just pointing out that there is a level of depth that people can strive for if that's what they want.

Well, it was definitely getting there. Sounded more to me like there is a level of depth that people should strive for if they know about, and anyone who doesn't obviously isn't as dedicated to the game, because they're not using all these hidden functions.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Are you sure you've played Pokemon Diamond/Pearl?

Yeah, what am I forgetting about?

EDIT - SirKibble: Yeah, perhaps. Don't take it personally though, :D

EDIT2 - Apparently, Spire, the Pokemon company is very involved with character representation in Smash (says Sakurai).

 

[SirKibble]

Yeah, it just kind of ticks me off when people assume that because you're not in the competitive scene or pulling all the same tricks out of your sleeve that you don't know your stuff. Stuff like

That's stupid. Intentionally playing the game in a way that makes it have less depth.

bothers me. Some people prefer it that way. Some of us just like playing pretty much by what's in the instruction manual. No wavedashing, no EVs/IVs; I like to think it's just straight-up old-fashioned mindgames, I guess, is what it boils down to. Outsmarting your opponent.

 

[Chief Mendez]

It's still an advanced type of play that kids can't understand.

Again, this is a stilted view. There are plenty of kids below age 10 that attend my local Gamestop's D/P tournaments, and almost all of them know and use EVs/IVs. You're just assuming this to prove a point, is what this looks like.

Honestly, I don't give a **** if the developers meant it to be top secret, they put it in there and made it findable

Findable? Really?

THERE'S NO MENTION OF IT ANYWHERE IN THE GAME, BAR NONE!

THEY ARE NOT GLITCHES.

Okay, I messed up on that. Technically they're not glitches, but they do exploit the game.

Let's see what the dictionary has to say about that

"2. to use selfishly for one's own ends"

Need I say more?

Oddly enough, I don't give a **** how it's meant to be played.

Fine, but don't go about condemning other people for not feeling the same way about it.

Honestly, if Smash Bros is a game series to celebrate the Nintendo All-Stars, then the classic characters must be celebrated, not the extra, filler characters like Lucario. The characters chosen for Brawl were chosen out of: a) popularity (hence why Lucario got in), and b) importance. Marth is important to the beginning era of Fire Emblem, and Ike is important to the current era of Fire Emblem. Where does Roy stand? NO WHERE. Unfortunately, this 'beginning and current' trend affects Pokemon, and will continue to do so, repping new generations to come. You know that all we need is Pokemon Trainer (with the Pokemon families he has now), Pikachu, Jiggs, and Mewtwo. You know it.

Very well said. (though shouldn't there be a 5th gen Poke rep in that list?)

As is, I think Brawl's roster is pretty all-encompassing. Instead of people looking for another Mario or Zelda rep, I think they should only add new characters to still under-rep'd series (which...is basically just F-ZERO), and then focus on totally absent franchises like Advance Wars.

 

[darkserenade]

EDIT2 - Apparently, Spire, the Pokemon company is very involved with character representation in Smash (says Sakurai).

I think he meant that the Pokemon company was very involved with their represenatives in Smash, but I could be wrong.

 

[flyinfilipino]

THERE'S NO MENTION OF IT ANYWHERE IN THE GAME, BAR NONE!

Effort Ribbon lady, EV-reducing berries, etc.

As is, I think Brawl's roster is pretty all-encompassing.

Me too!

EDIT - darkserenade: Yes, that's what I meant, sorry.

 

[SirKibble]

This whole thing comes down to two different definitions of the word exploit:

1) to use or manipulate to one's advantage

Sounds pretty bad, right? Like something you shouldn't do? Well, that's one view, that it's something that takes away from the core essence of the game by discovering and using all these hidden mechanics. But then...

2) to make good use of

Well, I think that one's pretty self-explanatory. Lots of people feel that if you know about these things, you might as well use them! They consider it just a form of using your resources to make the best of your game.

So it really depends just which side of the fence you're on. The big point is, both viewpoints are acceptable and right. No one's ruining the game here, they're just playing it different ways.

 

[Firus]

Back to the Pokemon debate. Classic characters will always be dominant. Why? Because they introduced the series. Who are the only playable Mario characters in Smash Bros? Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and to a lesser degree, Yoshi and Wario. How long have they been around? FOREVER. You don't see Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Baby Mario Bros, Toadsworth, Dimentio, or any of the newer, less prominent characters playable, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T IMPORTANT AND DID NOT BRING THE SERIES TO FAME (yes this is directed at hippochinfat! for the most part).

Pokemon, again. Who made it popular? Pikachu, Jigglypuff, the three 1st Gen starter families, Mewtwo, and the other 139/151 original Pokemon. Who made Mario popular? Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser, and not too far into the future after that, Yoshi and Wario. Who made Zelda popular? Link, Zelda, and Ganon. Who's playable? Link, Zelda, and Ganon (don't give me **** about Sheik or Toon Link, because both ARE Zelda and Link, period). Who made Donkey Kong popular? Donkey Kong; and who helped in reviving it? Diddy Kong.

Honestly, if Smash Bros is a game series to celebrate the Nintendo All-Stars, then the classic characters must be celebrated, not the extra, filler characters like Lucario. The characters chosen for Brawl were chosen out of: a) popularity (hence why Lucario got in), and b) importance. Marth is important to the beginning era of Fire Emblem, and Ike is important to the current era of Fire Emblem. Where does Roy stand? NO WHERE. Unfortunately, this 'beginning and current' trend affects Pokemon, and will continue to do so, repping new generations to come. You know that all we need is Pokemon Trainer (with the Pokemon families he has now), Pikachu, Jiggs, and Mewtwo. You know it.

And Spire comes in to save the day! *applause*

Yeah, what am I forgetting about?

The twelve legendaries doesn't exactly scream "catering to the core fans".
I don't know, it's definitely not as good of a game, but I can't really think straight right now so there may be more to it than that.

Again, this is a stilted view. There are plenty of kids below age 10 that attend my local Gamestop's D/P tournaments, and almost all of them know and use EVs/IVs. You're just assuming this to prove a point, is what this looks like.

Then that's an exception, because I guarantee you you could ask most people under the age of 10 that play Pokemon and they wouldn't know about them, because they're not involved with the community, going online, etc. and if they're not doing that, it's going to be pretty hard to find out about them.
I'm not just assuming this, it's a logical conclusion.

Findable? Really?

THERE'S NO MENTION OF IT ANYWHERE IN THE GAME, BAR NONE!

Okay, stop nitpicking. Point is, it's in the game.

Let's see what the dictionary has to say about that

"2. to use selfishly for one's own ends"

Need I say more?

Oh, you're a riot.

Maybe if people who insist that the game should be played as is would stop calling everything glitches we wouldn't be using the term "exploit". In any case, I've said this so many times on SmashBoards I don't know why I have to say it again; things are commonly mistermed when it comes to video games. Hardcore isn't the correct term for hardcore gamers either.

Fine, but don't go about condemning other people for not feeling the same way about it.

Don't go condemning people for not being "pure" then. Which is EXACTLY what you're doing by saying that the definition of wavedashing or using the knowledge of EVs is "selfish", so don't even try to pretend like you're not.

I've had it up to here with morons telling me that it's not right to hack, and that wavedashing is a glitch, and that the developers didn't mean for it to be played this way and that way and every other way. I DON'T CARE. I'M GOING TO PLAY HOW I WANT TO. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO USE THOSE THINGS, THEN FINE, LEAVE ME ALONE. I spent $50 on the freakin' game, it is my property, I own it, and I'm going to do with it what I want.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Effort Ribbon lady

Okay...maybe. But I don't think the EV Berries actually are called "EV Berries" in the game, are they?

@ Kibble - OMGWTFBBQ!?

Spoiler

You weren't supposed to tell them the other definition. My entire argument is like, totally in shambles! I can't ever recover from this fatal blow...*sad face*

Oh, you're a riot.

Lol, I kno rite?

Alright look: I apologize.

I suppose I did get a bit carried away there (a dictionary definition is the internet forum equivalent of stabbing someone in the face), but...

Well, whatever the cause, I'm sorry. I won't hate on you hardcore types so long as you won't be hatin' on us softcore types. Deal?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Okay...maybe. But I don't think the EV Berries actually are called "EV Berries" in the game, are they?
[/SPOILER]

No, but the Effort Ribbon lady isn't called that either

Spoiler

Their purpose as EV-reducing berries is shown though.

@Firus: Eh, don't mind the legendaries

Spoiler

You have to admit that Giratina is kick-*** though.

 

[Firus]

@Firus: Eh, don't mind the legendaries

Spoiler

You have to admit that Giratina is kick-*** though.

Yeah, true. But uh...

You know what, just look at my sig.

 

[SirKibble]

This thread constantly destroys my hope in there ever being any form of lasting peace anywhere in the world...

Can't we talk rationally and calmly, guys? No freaking out, no condescending sarcasm... It might be worth a try. Of course, if you'd all rather continue having a heated argument, I suppose that's your choice, I just don't think it's going to get us anywhere...

@Kibble - OMGWTFBBQ!?

Spoiler

You weren't supposed to tell them the other definition. My entire argument is like, totally in shambles! I can't ever recover from this fatal blow...*sad face*

Oops... Me go sit in ****** corner now... Be back in half hour...

 

[Spire]

Very well said. (though shouldn't there be a 5th gen Poke rep in that list?)

As is, I think Brawl's roster is pretty all-encompassing. Instead of people looking for another Mario or Zelda rep, I think they should only add new characters to still under-rep'd series (which...is basically just F-ZERO), and then focus on totally absent franchises like Advance Wars.

Exactly. As much as I love Zelda (you know I do), I do not want another Zelda rep in Smash Bros. It would be far too forced. We have those who are necessary, so adding anyone else would simply trouble EVERYONE, sparking questions like, "well if they got in, why couldn't so-and-so get in, despite both being just as important?" It's simply because the only characters who have ever been important enough to be in SSB are Link, Zelda, and Ganon, and that's because they're in just about every single ****ing game. Skull Kid has been in four, and only important in 1.5 games. Midna has been in ONE game. Zant has been in ONE game. Wolf Link has been in ONE game. While all of those would make wonderful, wonderful characters, they would be entirely extraneous.

So yes, Nintendo needs to focus on new franchises. I'm willing to wait a number of years for a new Smash Bros to give Nintendo time to create entirely new and original games (like how Pikmin came out of absolute no where) so that not only will the little dickweeds stop complaining about how Nintendo's not delivering enough "core games", but so that we'll get awesome, new Nintendo games, AND new reps in the next Smash Bros. And yes, this goes for the Nintendo/Advanced/Battalion Wars series too.

I think he meant that the Pokemon company was very involved with their represenatives in Smash, but I could be wrong.

EDIT - darkserenade: Yes, that's what I meant, sorry.

Yeah, just a misunderstanding. All back on track, right?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yes Spire. The folks up in Smash headquarters will wait for new franchises to pop up and new things to develop. Sakurai and friends won't just be filling the game with Brawl-leftovers.

 

[darkserenade]

For Herr Kibble's sake, I'll post rationally and without my

Spoiler

*sniffle*

awesome sarcasm.

Exactly. As much as I love Zelda (you know I do), I do not want another Zelda rep in Smash Bros. It would be far too forced. We have those who are necessary, so adding anyone else would simply trouble EVERYONE, sparking questions like, "well if they got in, why couldn't so-and-so get in, despite both being just as important?" It's simply because the only characters who have ever been important enough to be in SSB are Link, Zelda, and Ganon, and that's because they're in just about every single ****ing game. Skull Kid has been in four, and only important in 1.5 games. Midna has been in ONE game. Zant has been in ONE game. Wolf Link has been in ONE game. While all of those would make wonderful, wonderful characters, they would be entirely extraneous.

I think that as the limits expand, more reps for LoZ is inevitable. Because, as more LoZ games are made, more characters, be it minor or large, will be wanted and made. Unless, of course, SSBB or SSB4 are the last entries in the series. We have to remember that the future is always near.

Yeah, just a misunderstanding. All back on track, right?

I was just saying, not scolding or in a mad tone. Yep, all back on track.=p

 

[Spire]

Yes Spire. The folks up in Smash headquarters will wait for new franchises to pop up and new things to develop. Sakurai and friends won't just be filling the game with Brawl-leftovers.

I'm 85.7% sure that none of the "forbidden seven" will ever make it into Smash Bros. That last 14.3% is Mewtwo. He seems like the only one to still have a chance of returning, and Dr. Mario returning as an alternate costume does not count as an actual character returning. Dixie Kong is dead and has dropped off the face of the planet. She didn't even make the DK64 cut, and has sense appeared in a few games, with extremely minor, filler roles (mainly just an extra selectable character). Plusle & Minun are absolutely dead. No one gives a **** about them. Roy is dead. Toon Zelda/Sheik is worthless, but has a higher chance than the aforementioned.

So yeah, Mewtwo, I see, is the only one who has a chance of returning, merely for his importance in the history of Pokemon. Honestly, the others have no real importance at all - even Toon Zelda, seeing as how she's just another Zelda. Toon Link is even unnecessary.

The Sakuraifolk will have a lot more resources by the time development for the next Smash Bros rolls around, and these forbidden seven (sans Mewtwo) will have vanished completely. Oh, and don't try and counter this with, "well they planned for Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, King Dedede, and Pit to be in SSB64," because that logic is flawed. Look at those characters. BOWSER, PEACH, both staples in the Mario universe; MEWTWO, I've spoken enough about him, need I say more? KING DEDEDE is Kirby's Bowser - extremely important; PIT, I hate the ****er, but he's a prime member of Classic Nintendo. I honestly wouldn't have Smash Bros without him.

I'd like to see Smash Bros flipped upside down, whatever that means; a "Termina" to the "Hyrule" Smash Bros. that we know [/terrible Zelda reference].

 

[SmashChu]

Back to the Pokemon debate. Classic characters will always be dominant. Why? Because they introduced the series. Who are the only playable Mario characters in Smash Bros? Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and to a lesser degree, Yoshi and Wario. How long have they been around? FOREVER. You don't see Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Baby Mario Bros, Toadsworth, Dimentio, or any of the newer, less prominent characters playable, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T IMPORTANT AND DID NOT BRING THE SERIES TO FAME (yes this is directed at hippochinfat! for the most part).

Pokemon, again. Who made it popular? Pikachu, Jigglypuff, the three 1st Gen starter families, Mewtwo, and the other 139/151 original Pokemon. Who made Mario popular? Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser, and not too far into the future after that, Yoshi and Wario. Who made Zelda popular? Link, Zelda, and Ganon. Who's playable? Link, Zelda, and Ganon (don't give me **** about Sheik or Toon Link, because both ARE Zelda and Link, period). Who made Donkey Kong popular? Donkey Kong; and who helped in reviving it? Diddy Kong.

Honestly, if Smash Bros is a game series to celebrate the Nintendo All-Stars, then the classic characters must be celebrated, not the extra, filler characters like Lucario. The characters chosen for Brawl were chosen out of: a) popularity (hence why Lucario got in), and b) importance. Marth is important to the beginning era of Fire Emblem, and Ike is important to the current era of Fire Emblem. Where does Roy stand? NO WHERE. Unfortunately, this 'beginning and current' trend affects Pokemon, and will continue to do so, repping new generations to come. You know that all we need is Pokemon Trainer (with the Pokemon families he has now), Pikachu, Jiggs, and Mewtwo. You know it.

I agree, but I want to bring up a point.

As Smash continues, we will see more recent characters. There are only so many characters who can be considered classic, but the newer characters will expand. 6 of the 16 new characters came after Melee. New characters will be more predominate as the franchise goes on becuase there is more of them.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Plusle & Minun are absolutely dead. No one gives a **** about them.

Except me!

Really, are there any other characte(s) that really have the chances of Plusle & Minun that are the same kind of "duo" character? I'd like to see another character that uses the Ice Climber's...unique design, but with a different moveset/physics/etc.

 

[smashbot226]

Except me!

Really, are there any other characte(s) that really have the chances of Plusle & Minun that are the same kind of "duo" character? I'd like to see another character that uses the Ice Climber's...unique design, but with a different moveset/physics/etc.

Well, IC's design wouldn't be UNIQUE because the Climbers already have it.

And I could see those two little "creative" designs as a Luigified Pichu Duo.

Toon Zelda? PFFT. Toon GANON is more like it! At least he'll (HOPEFULLY) have his sword.

Dixie can suck Dix for all I care.

The others I really don't care about except Mewtwo.

Screw that fur*** Lucario. I WANT MEWTWO.

-------

Wanna know the harsh, harsh truth?

Spoiler

Sakurai is a fat lazy ******* who would rather sit on his fat developing butt and would rather make Ridley a f*cking Pikachu clone that actually put time and effort into whatever he does.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Except me!

Really, are there any other characte(s) that really have the chances of Plusle & Minun that are the same kind of "duo" character? I'd like to see another character that uses the Ice Climber's...unique design, but with a different moveset/physics/etc.

Baby Mario Brothers.

Dixie/Diddy tag team (yes, I know Dixie hasn't been around for a while, but it would still be cool to see her in.)

 

[:034:]

Hey guys, you want some music leak? I thought you would:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuZM3Fg3Mp0

Old closed thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191860

 

[SkylerOcon]

It's not leaked. You can hear people cheering at the beginning of the video, and devs never make music before the actual game. Don't get me wrong -- I would love for this to be in SSB4. Just, this won't.

Stop saying that your 'source' found this leak.

 

[smashbot226]

Sakurai is too lame to leak something like that.

 

[SirKibble]

Baby Mario Brothers.

I would love to see them get in.

Hey guys, you want some music leak? I thought you would:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuZM3Fg3Mp0

Old closed thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191860

Wait, watch, I can do it, too. This song has been confirmed as the boss battle music for SSB4.

Spoiler

And no, I'm not rick-rolling you. Something much, much better.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Gardevoir or any other 3rd gen Pokemon will never be in the game. Neither will Pichu. Those gens are dead, no need to have them in. Lucario will probably be taken out as well. That's way to many Pokemon by the way.

By the way, Jigglypuff isn't popular in Japan. I hate it when people say "____ is so popular in Japan!". Jiggs will stay just because she's part of the original 12 and she's got an original moveset that no one else can really take.

Why is everyone so ready to cut mewtwo and Lucario, but heaven forbid jiggs gets a slight downgrade. I saw that link that was posted on jiggs popularity, but I and wary of it. Polls are not very good overall becasue only people that care will answer them. It can become skewed.

I measure the pokemons success by the anime and merchandise. Jiggs is lacking from the anime, and I have not seen any new toys/etc. about her recently. Even when it comes to japan, I have not seen her.

Back to the Pokemon debate. Classic characters will always be dominant. Why? Because they introduced the series. Who are the only playable Mario characters in Smash Bros? Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and to a lesser degree, Yoshi and Wario. How long have they been around? FOREVER. You don't see Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Baby Mario Bros, Toadsworth, Dimentio, or any of the newer, less prominent characters playable, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T IMPORTANT AND DID NOT BRING THE SERIES TO FAME (yes this is directed at hippochinfat! for the most part).

Pokemon, again. Who made it popular? Pikachu, Jigglypuff, the three 1st Gen starter families, Mewtwo, and the other 139/151 original Pokemon. Who made Mario popular? Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser, and not too far into the future after that, Yoshi and Wario. Who made Zelda popular? Link, Zelda, and Ganon. Who's playable? Link, Zelda, and Ganon (don't give me **** about Sheik or Toon Link, because both ARE Zelda and Link, period). Who made Donkey Kong popular? Donkey Kong; and who helped in reviving it? Diddy Kong.

Honestly, if Smash Bros is a game series to celebrate the Nintendo All-Stars, then the classic characters must be celebrated, not the extra, filler characters like Lucario. The characters chosen for Brawl were chosen out of: a) popularity (hence why Lucario got in), and b) importance. Marth is important to the beginning era of Fire Emblem, and Ike is important to the current era of Fire Emblem. Where does Roy stand? NO WHERE. Unfortunately, this 'beginning and current' trend affects Pokemon, and will continue to do so, repping new generations to come. You know that all we need is Pokemon Trainer (with the Pokemon families he has now), Pikachu, Jiggs, and Mewtwo. You know it.

the only problem with this is Ice climbers and Pit. Neither play a huge role in Nintendo's History.

Kirby is really only defined by Kirby.

and then we have Ness, who could have and would have been replaced by Lucas if not for his original 12 status.

Smash is not this great Nintendo history game people are trying to make it out to be. It is a game where people can take their favorite Nintendo characters (which most happen to be important to Nintendo's History) and have them beat the crap out of each other. If it was glorifying Nintendo's history, Snake and Sonic would not be there. It is just mindless fun. Stop making it out what it is not.

Except me!

Really, are there any other characte(s) that really have the chances of Plusle & Minun that are the same kind of "duo" character? I'd like to see another character that uses the Ice Climber's...unique design, but with a different moveset/physics/etc.

Diddy/Dixie would work great there. Check the link I posted. I have that combination in my flash.

 

[Darkwashu]

Except me!

Really, are there any other characte(s) that really have the chances of Plusle & Minun that are the same kind of "duo" character? I'd like to see another character that uses the Ice Climber's...unique design, but with a different moveset/physics/etc.

Baby Mario & Weegee
Baby Peach and Daisy
Koopa Kids,except 7 of them!
Lunatone and Solrock....
Erm...Mario and Luigi....

Why would Lucas replace Ness?
The reason Ness wasnt replaced in Melee was because MOTHER 3 was delayed.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why would Lucas replace Ness?
The reason Ness wasnt replaced in Melee was because MOTHER 3 was delayed.

I can't back this up, but I heard that Lucas had been planned since SSB, but MOTHER 3 wasn't out yet so Ness was thrown in his place. Ness' Japanese Melee profile also suggests that Lucas would have taken Ness' spot if the game had come out then. Also, Ninten, Ness, and Lucas share pretty much the same abilities so people thought Ness and Lucas both being in wouldn't happen since many believed clones would be gone.

I was one of those people. In fact, I was in denial when that leak on the Japanese Wii site happened. I wanted to believe it was some hacker doing it for the lulz. I wanted either Claus or Kumatora to get in.

Because the whole original 12 thing has been practically established by now, I now believe that neither Jigglypuff or Ness will ever get the boot unless it's for copyright reasons.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I can't back this up, but I heard that Lucas had been planned since SSB, but MOTHER 3 wasn't out yet so Ness was thrown in his place. Ness' Japanese Melee profile also suggests that Lucas would have taken Ness' spot if the game had come out then. Also, Ninten, Ness, and Lucas share pretty much the same abilities so people thought Ness and Lucas both being in wouldn't happen since many believed clones would be gone.

I was one of those people. In fact, I was in denial when that leak on the Japanese Wii site happened. I wanted to believe it was some hacker doing it for the lulz. I wanted either Claus or Kumatora to get in.

Because the whole original 12 thing has been practically established by now, I now believe that neither Jigglypuff or Ness will ever get the boot unless it's for copyright reasons.

well, I am for not removing anyone, but I can see them being pushed into different playable places. I can see jiggs getting a trainer downgrade and even Ness becoming a Costume. (alright, not so much the costume.)

 

[SirKibble]

Kirby is really only defined by Kirby.

No. Just... No. Don't even... Just... No.

Sorry, this just bothers me, as a Kirby fan.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Jody could work, moveset wise. They would have to make up stuff for her, but I think a feline esque moveset would work best since her car is the White Cat.

Well, they would make stuff up for ANY F-Zero character, considering that they do little other than racing. I do agree on including Jody Summers, though. It might help increase the female side of the roster and your suggestion on her having a feline-styled moveset might bring some diversity to the table, considering that we have a character with a feral moveset(Wolf).

BTW, if she could use that type of moveset, would that give her the ability to crawl?

 

[Big-Cat]

well, I am for not removing anyone, but I can see them being pushed into different playable places. I can see jiggs getting a trainer downgrade and even Ness becoming a Costume. (alright, not so much the costume.)

This, I'm fine with, except for Ness since he and Lucas are different enough. All they need is PSI they actually learn (or at least Rockin' and Teleport for Ness, and Love for Lucas). Although, Ninten should be an alt. for Ness.

Falco can be an alt. for Fox, Daisy for Peach, Ninten for Ness, Dr. Mario for Mario, and Roy for Marth as well. Anyone else is DLC.

Well, they would make stuff up for ANY F-Zero character, considering that they do little other than racing. I do agree on including Jody Summers, though. It might help increase the female side of the roster and your suggestion on her having a feline-styled moveset might bring some diversity to the table, considering that we have a character with a feral moveset(Wolf).

BTW, if she could use that type of moveset, would that give her the ability to crawl?

I think she would crawl, but it would be a low all-fours kind of crawl.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Why is everyone so ready to cut mewtwo and Lucario, but heaven forbid jiggs gets a slight downgrade. I saw that link that was posted on jiggs popularity, but I and wary of it. Polls are not very good overall becasue only people that care will answer them. It can become skewed.

I measure the pokemons success by the anime and merchandise. Jiggs is lacking from the anime, and I have not seen any new toys/etc. about her recently. Even when it comes to japan, I have not seen her.

Jigglypuff is still one of the most popular and most widely recognized Pokemon out there. According to a poll done by the Pokemon Company for Pokemon's 10th Anniversary (in America!), Jigglypuff was only less popular than Pikachu (the top ten choices had their faces put on Collector's DVD boxes) (Lugia, Eevee, and Squirtle were some others). I believe this poll only involved the US, but when it comes to Pokemon, popularity is pretty much worldwide. Mewtwo, unfortunately, continues to be overshadowed with every generation by new legendaries, at least for younger fans. Lucario might suffer the same fate.

 

[:034:]

Wait, watch, I can do it, too. This song has been confirmed as the boss battle music for SSB4.

Spoiler

And no, I'm not rick-rolling you. Something much, much better.

This is indeed MUCH better.

 

[Pieman0920]

Lucario probably won't be cut, because of what he is. He's the lone 4th gen Pokemon in a sea of first gen. Even if the next Smash comes out before 5th gen, he's still going to likely stay so that the series so that the representation is balanced. If Mewtwo had stayed, everything would have been first gen, which would have been a insult to there series, suggesting it had never progressed. (Also, there had to be some promotion of the 4th gen there too) Mewtwo couldn't replace Pika or Jigs because those two were in Smash since the begining. PT was unique in his three Pokemon play style, and while he could have used older generations of Pokemon, it seems like the game was pushing Fire Red/Leaf Green with him, and also the Pokemon would be more recognizable as first gen. Thus, Mewtwo couldn't have had the spot, otherwise he would thrown of the balance of series. (Having four at maximum)

Thus, Lucario was likely never a replacement for Mewtwo per say, but just something that could make the series go past its first game.

 

[smashbot226]

That's pretty cool.

I would

Spoiler

n't

believe it.