OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[da K.I.D.]

i wish we had ikes jab, cause then if he tried to side b through you jab fsmash would beat it and would be a true combo.


up smash works from time to time. but the most consistent thing ive done, is basically bait him to side b to the middle of the stage, and run to that point before he gets there and have a bair or a f smash waiting for him

 

[Kinzer]

... Oh!

I completely forgot about the fact that Falco can change the distance on his Phantasm, so no wonder I didn't even try to bother with the whole waiting for him mid-stage thing. I can be charging an FSmash and he won't be anywhere near me when I have it ready; even if I did predict he would try to land on stage at that exact moment. That isn't even considering all the breathing room I'd be giving him by doing that.

Now I feel like an idiot.

 

[Life]

Try standing/walking just outside his Phantasm's range. If he goes onstage, great, you should be able to fsmash it on reaction. If he goes for the ledge, you can run partway to him and react to whatever he does on the ledge (if you're expecting another phantasm, you can probably jump over it and bair).

Alternatively, jump offstage at him to spook him into Phantasm, without actually committing to anything. Beat him to the ground and then maybe grab or bair or something.

I wonder if dtilt works if he comes in low enough? The timing would be stupid hard but hitting falco out of phantasm with tipper dtlit would be hilarious.

(Why am I the one talking about how to beat Falco? <.<)

 

[Kinzer]

I just pointed this out though, there's nothing stopping him from... stopping short. Any range that would be normal of an uncanceled Phantasm truly is an illusion.

Kyle never messes up the input when he intends on it. Not that anyone here would rely on miracles, but you know~...

At least, I got a somewhat new idea now...

 

[Life]

Epic ninja, my bad.

Messing around with Sonic v Falco in Training mode, seeing if I can get him to do Phantasm recovery consistently... might help.

(late edit: I may have gotten sidetracked while writing this post, hence having ten minutes to check the thread for new posts and still getting ninja'd.)

 

[RaqTasmeneth]

I've been playing Brawl casually for about two years now and up until 8 months or so ago, I mained Sonic, recently moving on to Peach. A handful of of my circle play as Fox and is the reason I quit blue spikes-- out of frustration. All of the effort it took to set something up put to shame by the death at 90% usmash. Admittedly looking back the replays were mediocre at best.
I want to rehire Sonic, but even with the elements of speed, and confusion, what chance do I got against those nasty baiting Foxes?

 

[Life]

The simple version is "don't let him hit you with usmash". Stay close enough so he can't laser you safely, but far enough that you're out of his reach, and try to bait an attack.

 

[B.A.M.]

honestly you should be baiting usmash out once you are at those percents. One of Sonic great abilities (which somewhat resembles a strength MK has) is not needing to commit. Use your SDSC ASC, shield cancels, VSDJ, etc to get them to attack. If you see them coming after your SCs for an usmash kill then use side b. We dont need to commit! That is one of our greatest strengths, yet it is quite often forgotten by new Sonics.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I actually have a secret technique thats somewhat consistent for gimping falco.

cant just be handing that mess out to bad kids that are super negative all the time tho.

 

[B.A.M.]

hahaha you and me both KID. In fact i have a setup that helps edgeguard a ton of characters. I do believe we got start sharing these hidden techs. We have to help our fellow Sonics grow. Start using that integrity son!

 

[Tesh]

maybe he should keep his secrets to himself

 

[Sonjicboom]

Hey guys! Developing Sonic main here; it's nice to meet you all . I have been practicing my Sonic a lot as of late, and have found that Ice Climbers are quite tricky to deal with. What are some good stage picks/ strats for handling them? Thanks!

 

[Mr. Johan]

I think I asked this a few months back, but w/e.

Sonic vs. Toon Link.

Sonic attempts to get through the myriad of B-reverse and wavebounced arrows, Bombs, and Boomerang and Hookshot. Tink laughs while he does so.

Sonic somehow makes it through and tries to attack.

Tink jumps and presses the A button. Sonic is swatted away.

Rinse and repeat for 8 minutes. Many tears and obscenities are shed.

Pointers on how to get through this garbage?

 

[Tesh]

Sounds like you are recklessly trying to get in and/or being too obvious about what to do when you get in. I assume you are just trying to push the game forward too fast. An important thing to keep in mind is not to go for punishes you can't make imo. If you just keep rushing in hoping to get a hit in, you will just get punished over and over. Keep in mind that even when people aren't trying to camp or time out, it still can go deep into 8 minutes.

Be very mindful of where his boomerang is when its out so you don't get counter punished or baited into combos that wouldn't otherwise work.

Your ASC can be a handy defensive tool as it goes through boomerangs and arrows from the proper angle. You can use this to punish through a move and/or conserve your shield.

Don't roll away from projectiles aimed at your head, Sonic is tall and rolling away from a bomb or arrow will usually end up with it hitting your feet at the end of the roll anyway.

You can get alot of safer punishes by timing good edgehogs forcing him to recover over the ledge with lag, and dash attacking under his landings to avoid zair.

If you start getting frustrated, just try to be patient and calm down. You can't really force this match to go faster without some beastly offstage game.

 

[War Anvil]

I think I asked this a few months back, but w/e.

Sonic vs. Toon Link.

Sonic attempts to get through the myriad of B-reverse and wavebounced arrows, Bombs, and Boomerang and Hookshot. Tink laughs while he does so.

Sonic somehow makes it through and tries to attack.

Tink jumps and presses the A button. Sonic is swatted away.

Rinse and repeat for 8 minutes. Many tears and obscenities are shed.

Pointers on how to get through this garbage?

Spring up, dodge any spins Tink may plan, and smack him from behind. That, and what Tesh said.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Poll from the BBR-RC to the public: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310386

Discussion about it is not allowed per site rules (even in this thread), but we are allowed to conduct this poll

you heard it from me

 

[B.A.M.]

We want MK! It aids us Sonics!

 

[Espy Rose]

No it doesn't.

 

[Tesh]

MK beats all of Sonics bad matchups (diddy kong, snake, falco, lucario, ddd, zss, fox, wolf, kirby, donkey kong, samus, zelda, sheik, falcon, ganon, jigglypuff, bowser, marth ics,pikachu, olimar, toon link, gnw, peach , mario, yoshi, luigi , rob, pit, ike ,lucas, ness , sheldar, link and squirtle.) His presence makes all of these characters less likely to be mained.

 

[Espy Rose]

Tesh does a great Speed impersonation.

 

[B.A.M.]

LOL too much truth right now.

 

[phi1ny3]

So how do you more appropriately guess your followups after SideB connecting? Do you guys just get a feel for it after awhile?

 

[Kinzer]

I thought that was always just a matter of knowing your opponent and how they respond. The way opponents DI away and into other attacks, there will be different options that are more appropriate.

That's the "scientific" answer. If you asked me, I would tell you it's just luck and what's been consistent for me. I rarely throw out Uairs and Dairs, Nairs every so often, Fairs more usually than not, and Bairs if I feel like I want to be adventurous.

 

[da K.I.D.]

off of the side b hop

footstool works from 0-~40
nair works from 30-140 or so
fair is pretty much the same.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

So, The aerial Down B has 5 hitboxes right?

I must be doing it wrong because i can only accurately get 2 hits.

Much less if i'm trying to land a bair out of it.

Whats the timing to back air out of Aerial Down B? Is there a certain hitbox?

And same with Down B on the ground.

 

[Tesh]

Follow DI. At higher percents you need to make sure you dont jump immediately after hitting them. You wanna roll a few feet more then jump into them.

Aerial Down B only has 2 hits, but it gets a new hitbox when it lands and you can get another for jumping while rolling on the ground THEN you can follow up with an aerial, which will be 5 hits. Its not like to land at higher percents tho unless they DI into it.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Does Bair through aerial down B require bouncing immediately after the first two hits?

And, thanks i appreciate it.

I'm entering a Mid Tier with Sonic tomorrow.

 

[Tesh]

Only at low low percents where they dont go much of anywhere. Higher percents means you have to chase them longer after you land. I'm assuming you want Bair for kills so you just need to learn the distance you have to travel after spindash hits.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Okay.

I can consistently get Fair and Uair from Spin Dashes, but i can't seem to get Bair...

Which really is what i need for killing lol.

 

[Tesh]

watch some videos of sonics doing it. it will be more apparent. or just go to training mode, set your opponent to various percents between 130-200 and see what happens. tho spindash isnt really gonna be fresh most of the time...

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. So, The aerial Down B has 5 hitboxes right?

2. I must be doing it wrong because i can only accurately get 2 hits.

Much less if i'm trying to land a bair out of it.

3. Whats the timing to back air out of Aerial Down B? Is there a certain hitbox?

4. And same with Down B on the ground.

5. Does Bair through aerial down B require bouncing immediately after the first two hits?

And, thanks i appreciate it.

I'm entering a Mid Tier with Sonic tomorrow.

Okay.

6. I can consistently get Fair and Uair from Spin Dashes, but i can't seem to get Bair...

Which really is what i need for killing lol.

1. Aerial Down B can hit 5 times, but the way the move works is that in order to do that, you have to hold forward, and that makes you travel forward between ASC hits.

2. Playable characters. in the game take knockback when getting hit with the ASC. and when they get knocked up, it moves them out of the way of the sonic who is still moving at a down forward angle. the only way to get more than two ASC hits is to space your ASC to hit at the very top of a large framed, heavy characters head. At a low enough percentage that the knockback doesnt move them out of the sonics way. I.e. more than 2 hits only works on like... DDD, Bowser and ROB, and only under like 20 % The only time youll ever get more than that is if your fighting master hand or SSE bosses that take damage but not knockback from the ASC.

2b. just so the rest of this is clear. Down B = Spin Charge. Side B = Spindash. Aerial Down B = Aerial Spin Charge = ASC

3. ASC knock back sends character at about an 80 degree angle, which means it sends them in front of you. which means unless its at very low percents or the other guy DIs badly, you arent going to hit with ASC to bair.

4. Spindash - bair requires you to hit with a grounded down b, and than keep rolling on the ground past them. if you jump immediately, youll hit them with the spindash jump. and the bair wont be able to connect. You have to delay your jump so that the spindash jump hitbox misses and you roll under them so you can jump up and bair them from the other side.

5. At low percents yes. At high percents, like i explained before, its not possible.

6. See number 4. If you are going for damage, jump early and fair or up air and chase after them. If you are going for the kill, jump late and bair.

 

[Exceladon City]

"4. Spindash - bair requires you to hit with a grounded down b, and than keep rolling on the ground past them. if you jump immediately, youll hit them with the spindash jump. and the bair wont be able to connect. You have to delay your jump so that the spindash jump hitbox misses and you roll under them so you can jump up and bair them from the other side."


So that's how you do it. I could never figure it out, I just did a dash and pray.

 

[da K.I.D.]

You should have asked. I help people on this board that I actually like.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I help people on this board that I actually like.

Suh-weet.

I feel special.

 

[infomon]

Ya while it's airborne the ASC can hit 3x if the opponent is fat / low % / DIs bad. As KID said.

At low %s it's common for the ASC to hit once or twice, then as it lands you quickly jump it back as an SDJ (spindash jump) and it can hit them again, and if you're lucky you can still get a Uair/Fair or smthg after that

 

[Espy Rose]

KID should bold that SDR > bair setup. I get a feeling that a ton of Sonic's forget something that I feel is absolutely MANDATORY to be aware of, especially since it gives us a potential KO.

 

[Life]

Off to training mode, then.

 

[BSP]

Be careful with Fair off the SDJ, if they SDI it they get a free punish on you.

I've also found that if anything, once you make contact with SDR at like 30% or so and higher, mashing A (which makes you jump and then Nair) usually always connects and does good damage. If nothing else is working for you at a time, use nair.

 

[B.A.M.]

or a FSJ.

Also Mink sometimes you might want to use Nair instead of fair and uair out of spin dash if they know how to SDI well.


EDIT: Dammit. BSP u got my ***.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ya while it's airborne the ASC can hit 3x if the opponent is fat / low % / DIs bad. As KID said.

At low %s it's common for the ASC to hit once or twice, then as it lands you quickly jump it back as an SDJ (spindash jump) and it can hit them again, and if you're lucky you can still get a Uair/Fair or smthg after that

This is known as the Perfect SpinDash Combo

ASC. 2 hits. Roughly 9% per hit.
Spindash lands and hits with a grounded spindash hit. Also ~9%.
You jump and hit with the SpinDash Jump (SDJ) ~8%
You then aerial, 8-13%

This can net you up to 40% in less than 1 second.

Also, since espy thinks I should bold important things

NOTE: ALL FORMS OF DOWN B AS WELL AS SIDE B STALE THE SAME MOVE.
that means that after the perfect spindash combo explained above, hits 4 different times with 3 forms of spindash. That is all the same move. The side b hop, the ASC, the roll, the SDJ are all the same move and will stale as such.