PZ
Smash Lord
ru chis from nhotspot=o also ty i think stage spike is cool and the thing out spin dash i already know it but i was talkin bout somethin else
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- Thread starter Tenki
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Chis
Finally a legend
What is 'nhotspot'?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
are you english?
because if not, you dont know chis
because if not, you dont know chis
ithrowthings
Smash Lord
I probly should be asking my questions here instead of SGD...
Anyone know another way to punish a snake utilt besides perfect shield to grab?
Moves I know that don't work against it: ASC, jab, dtilt, ftilt, SDR, usmash, all aerials.
I'll test some stuff out later. I know you guys have had to have encountered this problem at least a few times, I was just wondering what you guys do to punish snakes utilt.
Anyone know another way to punish a snake utilt besides perfect shield to grab?
Moves I know that don't work against it: ASC, jab, dtilt, ftilt, SDR, usmash, all aerials.
I'll test some stuff out later. I know you guys have had to have encountered this problem at least a few times, I was just wondering what you guys do to punish snakes utilt.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
There is only a select few moves you can do. The snakes i fight tend to either spot dodge or roll after an utilt. What you might wanna do is either predict the next move, or if you really need to punish, throw out an ftilt. D-smash is good for spot dodge abusers. Fsmash for rollers. If anything pace yourself and throw out a bair.
If you're in range, a SH bair, ftilt, and iDA would work right out of the shield, but only after the hitbox for Snake's attack is gone, or if you shielded it.
You can probably dash grab him too.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
dash attack can punish anything
This is true
but just be careful that you try to punish with DA when your opponent is too low of a %, otherwise you get yourself D/B-aired.
nintendo hotspot? just guessing
if you're talking about homing attack, then either
1) it wasn't homing attack (might have been a vertical jump from a spindash charge, which kind of looks like HA)
2) hacks
ithrowthings
Smash Lord
This snake player knows the matchup better than any other snake player I've played by far. He beat Shugo in pools at a tournament. He's fought me long enough to perfectly time grabs out of my spindash regardless of the speed.
He usually does utilt to utilt also, so any attacks that clash with his utilt (dash attack, Spindash) result in me dying. I'll see if I can somehow buffer a shield. I'll also try ftilting and see if that works, the spacing on it is kinda rough though because snakes utilt has tons of range.
Also, DA won't work against him. Even when he is at high % he's fast enough to DI down and FF a bair on me about 90-95% of the time. Trust me, you guys don't want to fight this guy. I usually win against him about 40-50% of the time but that's because I've fought him so long I can read him very easily.
I'll try some more stuff out and see what happens. Wasn't sure if you guys saw this a lot and knew some crazy ultra good punish or anything.
He usually does utilt to utilt also, so any attacks that clash with his utilt (dash attack, Spindash) result in me dying. I'll see if I can somehow buffer a shield. I'll also try ftilting and see if that works, the spacing on it is kinda rough though because snakes utilt has tons of range.
Also, DA won't work against him. Even when he is at high % he's fast enough to DI down and FF a bair on me about 90-95% of the time. Trust me, you guys don't want to fight this guy. I usually win against him about 40-50% of the time but that's because I've fought him so long I can read him very easily.
I'll try some more stuff out and see what happens. Wasn't sure if you guys saw this a lot and knew some crazy ultra good punish or anything.
Browny
Smash Hater
If you're winning 40-50% of the time... whats the problem again?
no way in hell utilt-utilt is a legit combo after an attack clanks. they reset both of your positions, you should have 4 frames to put up your shield :/
no way in hell utilt-utilt is a legit combo after an attack clanks. they reset both of your positions, you should have 4 frames to put up your shield :/
PZ
Smash Lord
o u r not n im english plus some1 has same name as u at the place i was talkin bout
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
Personally i would step back and fsmash if he uptilts again or SpinDash and release for the invincibility frames. In all honest though, if DA clanks you should be right next 2 him, where you could straight up just jab his ***. You could space sh bair on block like Espy said as well. It shouldnt be a problem if you blocked it. its not like he has some secret frame advantage on you. Heck you could DDP away and towards again and powershield if you ecpect the uptilt. simplest thing to do is to just step back and reset the position.
ithrowthings
Smash Lord
I'm not looking to reset the position. If I reset the position, he just got an unanswered blow. I really dislike unanswered blows. He's the type of player that if I were to reset positions, he would simply keep creeping forward getting better board position until he forces me into a situation I dislike. I've been resetting the position and approaching till I get the perfect shield.
If a spindash clashes with snake's utilt sonic is way too far away to start his jab. The spacing is pretty much the same as if you normal shield snake's ftilt (out of grab and jab range.) I'm gonna experiment around next time I fight him. I'm not having difficulties beating him but he always says "OLay!" Like he's in a bull fight every time he hits me with an utilt. It's his way of saying "haha, I baited you into an utilt." When in reality I don't know enough about the game to properly punish an utilt without a perfect shield.
All his other moves I know how to punish in pretty much the most efficient ways. (Grabs mostly, sonic's uthrow is toooooo good)
Except when he starts doin tae-bo on my shield. I don't really know what to do in that situation except for reset position and go again.
If a spindash clashes with snake's utilt sonic is way too far away to start his jab. The spacing is pretty much the same as if you normal shield snake's ftilt (out of grab and jab range.) I'm gonna experiment around next time I fight him. I'm not having difficulties beating him but he always says "OLay!" Like he's in a bull fight every time he hits me with an utilt. It's his way of saying "haha, I baited you into an utilt." When in reality I don't know enough about the game to properly punish an utilt without a perfect shield.
All his other moves I know how to punish in pretty much the most efficient ways. (Grabs mostly, sonic's uthrow is toooooo good)
Except when he starts doin tae-bo on my shield. I don't really know what to do in that situation except for reset position and go again.
B_AWAL
Smash Master
If Sonic is near Snake and Snake isn't currently in a hit stun frame.... RUN AWAY!!!
Any1 got advice on Olimars?
Any1 got advice on Olimars?
ithrowthings
Smash Lord
Olimar advice, stay back for a while and watch their patterns. Once you get the patterns down it's all about getting in there and doing a very quick attack or a throw. I always picture the olimar matchup like I'm playing the final boss of mario 1 for the NES. He's shooting all these fireballs and he's throwin all these hammers and you gotta look for an opening to get past all that.
Once you get him into the air it's go time. If you hit him up with a dash attack, I suggest doing a u-turn and doing a grab where he's going to land. 99% of olimars land with an airdodge at low %. If the grab whiffed, keep the pressure on him, it's okay to take a couple hits up close against olimar. He is strong when he's far away. If your grab landed, do an uthrow and try to never let him touch the ground.
Olimar is still one of the biggest pains EVER for sonic because he has gets guaranteed grabs in a lot of situations. I mean GUARANTEED, nothing even the best sonic player can do about it grabs. Olimar is definitely a toughie, but it's doable.
Also, make sure you DI his dthrow at low % or he'll try to whack you with a fair out of it.
What do you guys do vs. Peach? I'm not too worried about her dair cause it can be punished if shielded properly(still a challenge, online anyway), giving sonic time to attack and refresh his shield, but what about the turnips? I think they clank with everything in sonic's arsenal...so any recommended approaches, up close game? anything pretty much. Sonic's side b invincibility frames should be able to go through the turnips right?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
turnips are the least of sonics problems when fighting peach...
I must be doing it wrong then, or turnips are just that much better online. Thanks for the help though
How do you get past them?
ithrowthings
Smash Lord
Wait, what's this about beating peach's dair spam? Tell me more plz.
About her turnips, I either bait her into glide tossing it towards me and jump to ff bair, fair and catch the turnip (and possibly hit peach with my fair) or let the turnip hit me clean in the face for maximum damage. I believe the forward b invlun will work on all the turnips ( It might not work on stitch face because stitch face might stay out too long for it.)
The only peach I really fight offline is king beef. He used to dair spam and I would wait for a good opportunity to punish a predictable dair. Many Many Many Many Many times our matches go to time. This actually seems pretty common in the Sonic vs. Peach matchup.
Main thing in this matchup is kills. You have to play really really campy against peach. If you mess up a kill move, it's a free kill for peach and pretty much vice-versa. Easiest kills for me against peach are when she's recovering from the edge to do a reverse fsmash. They usually s-hop fair onto the stage. If you're in the way you either eat it or shield it but she can jab immediately after while you're shielding. If you do the reverse fsmash they usually fall right into it.
Pretty much things you should be careful about imo are dair spam, landing aerials into jab combo (you can't shield grab between the aerial and the jabs) and spamming turnips.
EDIT: Oh, you're referring to online play? Just play like BOKU (abuse the lag) that's what I've started to do and it works very nicely. No offense to BOKU, he's a cool guy. After playing a lot of dubs online I can understand why he plays like that online. I'm kinda tempted to play wario and just spam the bike across the stage, it's impossible to punish in very laggy situations.
Boxob.
Smash Lord
B_AWAL
Smash Master
Thanx, I'll def keeep this info in mind!!!
I'll work on that wen I practice.
But here is the issue
What if he adjusts as much as we Sonic players do?
ithrowthings
Smash Lord
You're pretty much screwed at that point. Not sure if the video is online but I fought .com a while ago. Before this, the only olimar experience I had was against fino but that was a while ago and only some friendlies.Thanx, I'll def keeep this info in mind!!!
I'll work on that wen I practice.
But here is the issue
What if he adjusts as much as we Sonic players do?
2nd game, I'm down 2 stocks and I almost win the game. I started to see his patterns AND his switches. He would change his strategy once I hit him twice. So I would change my strategy accordingly and continue hitting him.
They are ++++ better online, it's frustrating.or turnips are just that much better online. Thanks for the help though
How do you get past them?
Also, random thing about Olimar - apparently Sonic can, if well timed, run in and grab (or dash attack) Olimar as his first pikmin is coming back. It's probably possible, if you're familiar with his grab range for certain pikmin, to screech stop then restart a run to get the grab in.
Chis
Finally a legend
Well you can cancel them with Fair, but yeah Turnips are top tier. On wifi.I must be doing it wrong then, or turnips are just that much better online. Thanks for the help though
How do you get past them?
infomon
Smash Scientist
Tourney rules are always up to the TO, so you should just ask the ppl in your area.
But rly, Sonic's Homing Attack under the stage is often referred to as "Homing Attack Stalling", and I think it's this terminology that helps confuse people.
The SBR recommended ruleset bans "stalling". ie. rendering yourself untouchable for the purpose of running down the timer. What most ppl don't realize is that Sonic's Homing Attack is very rarely capable of achieving this. If Sonic's repeatedly using HA underneath Smashville, then the opponent is dumb for not realizing that they're the one controlling its direction; so it's not actually stalling, unless they're just standing still (or sidestep-dodging, or w/e).
If they complain and your TO tries to DQ the Sonic for "stalling", then the TO is a n00b and the Sonic should kindly explain how the game works. However, there are stages (such as FD, afaik) where the HA can render Sonic truly untouchable in some matchups -- or perhaps just 100% guarantees that the opponent cannot return to the stage if they do venture down there to hit him. In these cases, the HA-stalling is legit, and is banned by the SBR recommended ruleset (and hence, probably by the TO in your tourney).
HTH
Kinzer
Mammy
I doubt Sonic's Uair has invincibility frames (If I'm wrong, please tell me and provide evidence).
What makes the move so sexy is that it has a huge amount of range, so you can safely hit things high above you with proper spacing.
What makes the move so sexy is that it has a huge amount of range, so you can safely hit things high above you with proper spacing.
infomon
Smash Scientist
It was Sonic's Usmash, not Uair.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Sonic's u-air does not have invincibility frames. It's def the usmash that he meant.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
there was a point where SL thought up air had invincibility frames, because he exploded a bomb block on green greens without getting hit.
but then again, thats why i dont listen to that guy
but then again, thats why i dont listen to that guy
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
That's not really invincible frames then, thats just his hitbox. He might've just spaced it where it did'nt reach the hurtbox.
Yea I know about Usmash no doubts there. I was reading his frame data thread and it said "invincibility frame 6 ?" and I did recall beating some odd things with the first kick despite large hitboxes such as nades and marth counter.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
it is possible that PART of sonic is invincible during the up air, similarly to how in melee foxs head was invincible during his upsmash and falcos feet are invincible during his down air.
infomon
Smash Scientist
geez yeah, it's possible Sonic's hurtbox gets shaped funny, but then you could pretty much say that about any attack in the game lol. Until they decrypt the hitbox/hurtbox storage in the game data (which may have already happened?).
~TBS~
Smash Champion
we do, but Kinzer hasnt been around to update it. Its around here somewhere
Dont worry, if Kinzer can find the time, we'll get it for you.
EDIT: here it is...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227254
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
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- 661
- Location
- Almere, The Netherlands
- NNID
- Xyronith
- 3DS FC
- 0731-5336-4808
Hey people :D
I'm a current Marth main, but i've been playing Sonic in Brawl+, and he's so freakin awesome, i just noticed
. Anyway, i've quit Brawl+, but I saw how much of an impact it had on my Sonic game. So i guess i'm going to secondary Sonic. I'll try my best to get a great and awesome Sonic. I do have a question:
What are the neccesary AT's that you NEED to know and NEED to use 100%. Because i've seen some crazy Sonic AT's but I was wondering if it was any useful. So can someone make a list with AT's i should learn? Thanks in Advance. Also, any other tips are greatly appreciated.
Glad to be on the boards ^^'.
I'm a current Marth main, but i've been playing Sonic in Brawl+, and he's so freakin awesome, i just noticed
. Anyway, i've quit Brawl+, but I saw how much of an impact it had on my Sonic game. So i guess i'm going to secondary Sonic. I'll try my best to get a great and awesome Sonic. I do have a question:What are the neccesary AT's that you NEED to know and NEED to use 100%. Because i've seen some crazy Sonic AT's but I was wondering if it was any useful. So can someone make a list with AT's i should learn? Thanks in Advance. Also, any other tips are greatly appreciated.
Glad to be on the boards ^^'.
Sonic in B+ is reaaally really buffed. The fact of hitstun and the faster moves and the mobility are just insane.
here are some advanced techniques that, if you can implement them into your game, you can probably beat people with Sonic.
the read:
- You think about what your opponent is going to do when they are 'cornered' (grounded, on the ledge, recovering, pressured to spotdodge), and use that to figure out the best course of action. It's really useful, especially when it comes to starting/continuing juggles, racking up damage, or killing.
ex: Your opponent falls down and doesn't tech. You notice that the last time this happened, he tried get-up attack. You use read and he does get-up attack again. Cool.
the bait:
- This one's intense, but if you can combine it with the read, you'll be steps ahead of them. You can make yourself look like you messed up, or you try to make it look like you're going to do something, and using read to know what move your opponent will do. Obviously, you should have a counter-movement in mind. This is really hard for some people.
ex: You usually try to F-air immediately when someone's falling towards you. Eventually, your opponent starts airdodging. Instead, you use read and bait to know that he's going to airdodge, and instead, you jump past and B-air.