OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[da K.I.D.]

whatever will hit them.

i suggest using nuetral air in as many of your spindash comboes as possible.

 

[r3d d09]

So Spindash>hit them> jump/etc> Nair>what ever my heart desires?

 

[Camalange]

Why Nair? Uair and Fair are such better options.



@red dog - Spindash > SDJ > Aerial

real basic stuff bro >_<

 

[da K.I.D.]

I say nuetral air because it does good damage, and refreshes your other moves, the moves you need for gimping and killing....

 

[Boxob.]

Bair works well out of that, too.

So does pretty much any move that isn't dair, and even that works sometimes lol.

 

[Boxob.]

I say nuetral air because it does good damage, and refreshes your other moves, the moves you need for gimping and killing....

Additionally, at high percents [150+] it'll kill on medium sized stages on lighter-mediumish characters.

 

[Camalange]

But Uair and Fair are such good damage rackers. Uair will usually lead to an even longer attack string due to it setting up easy juggling. Nair will just be like "meh" and it's over. Then Fair is best for actual damage.



Bair is good too, but I generally use that as a spacing tool.

 

[da K.I.D.]

up air does 9%
fair does 13% (rarely, since it usually doesnt hit with all the hits)
nair does 13% on the initial hit.

damage racking?

sonic can follow up from all his aerials if you are fast enough.

i still believe that you should do what you can to keep your most used moves (bair, fair up air) as fresh as possible hence using nair in the like 2 situations where it actually hits.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

what about dair on the sweet spot?

 

[Mr. Johan]

What's the best way to fight ROB on the ground?

If I try to keep a distance from it, I'm laser and Gyro bait, and if I try to take the fight up-close, its tilts will outspeed and outrange mine, and they end too quick for me to punish accordingly. And sidedodge -> D-smash is a given 85% of the time.

ASC has proven effective for me at times, but it hasn't helped me all the time - I've been hit out of it by f-tilt and F-smash a good amount of times to refrain me from using it frequently.

Should I just watch my spacing and try to hit with f-tilt at its maximum range most of the time? Or should I be going for grabs?

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. Get better and learn to powershield the gyro and lazers.

2. If you know he is going to Spot dodge and down smash, get better and learn to SDI it and punish or shield and punish with fair, or jump over it and bair him.

3. watch your spacing and try to hit him at max range? why the hell are you trying to space a character whos spacing is 10000 times better than yours? thats like trying to space marth with f tilt when his f tilt and f smash hit further and harder than any of your moves...

you have to play the midrange game, and personally my entire strategy for fightinf ROB revolves around baiting the spotdodge, and punishing the down smash. you have to learn to stay out of his tilt range, and jump in and punish quickly and getting out before you get ***** by his spacing games.

oh, and dont get hit by the nair

 

[Camalange]

up air does 9%
fair does 13% (rarely, since it usually doesnt hit with all the hits)
nair does 13% on the initial hit.

damage racking?

sonic can follow up from all his aerials if you are fast enough.

Follow up from a Nair or Dair safely? lol

I'd much rather use Uair which will put my opponent above me and almost always set up for another Uair or a Fair. Nair isn't safe to try and followup due to it's minor hitstun and the way it sends the opponent. Doesn't matter how fast you move after the Nair, it's not nearly as safe or reliable as a Uair or Fair. Uair is by far the best move for juggling or damage racking, with Fair as probably his overall safest most spammable move.

Nair I strictly use as a GTFO move while in the air. It makes for a pretty good panic button or sometimes to end a combo, but Fair does the same amount of damage, and you most likely won't connect with the initial hit of Nair and just get the 7%. Not worth it imo. It's much easier to connect with all hits of Fair then the first hit of Nair. Uair and Fair are almost always better options.

i still believe that you should do what you can to keep your most used moves (bair, fair up air) as fresh as possible hence using nair in the like 2 situations where it actually hits.

I don't mind staling them. I believe his Bair/Fair/Uair are his best and safest moves so I use them as much as possible. None of them can really kill on their own 'cept for Bair. Fair will gimp fresh or stale, Uair will probably juggle even more easily when stale, and Bair I use so much for spacing due to it being one of Sonic's longest ranged and easily most disjointed move...so that's generally stale anyway.

That's just the way my playstyle works I guess.

what about dair on the sweet spot?

Out of Spindash? If you get them offstage with it and you see the opportunity, go for it. On stage I wouldn't really recommend since it doesn't really leave much room for followups and it can be punished due to it's terribad ending lag. Although Blue does some of the most ridiculous things with Dair...so what do I know >_>

 

[Roxas1988]

I think nair is actually a good follow up out of SDJ. Cuz once you connect with it you can FF and land with the land cancel. Because nair has little to none cooldown time. Plus you should ssave your bairs fo either KOing or gimping. Uair is another good option as well.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Concerning the f-tilt, I meant that to try and hit with the tip of it just to tack on more damage. I can remember some times where it connected, but that may just be due to the ROB player not attacking fast enough.

And nair's been the bane of the match when I fight ROB, so I've conditioned myself to watch for it at all times, just like the Laser.

Doesn't mean the nair isn't going to be killing me often though, unfortunately.

 

[Camalange]

I think nair is actually a good follow up out of SDJ.

You also think Sonic has potential to be high tier.




I'm not saying to never use Nair as a followup, I'm saying that generally it's not the best option. There are times where Nair is great and is in fact the best option, but it just doesn't come close to the usage of Uair and Fair.

 

[Roxas1988]

You also think Sonic has potential to be high tier.




I'm not saying to never use Nair as a followup, I'm saying that generally it's not the best option. There are times where Nair is great and is in fact the best option, but it just doesn't come close to the usage of Uair and Fair.

GOD**** right he has potential to be top tier lol. But like i said uair is a good follow up. I would use that to combo my *** off. Fair is good but will miss sometimes cuz your oponent could Di out of it sometimes. And whats a matter with sonic being high tier?

 

[Camalange]

1. That's not missing. That's SDI and even if they SDI out it can usually lead to a FSJ or a Bair followup.

2. I'm not going to go into Sonic's tier placement discussion with you. Let's just say he can't kill in a game that's about killing. That's his biggest weakness.

 

[Roxas1988]

1. That's not missing. That's SDI and even if they SDI out it can usually lead to a FSJ or a Bair followup.

2. I'm not going to go into Sonic's tier placement discussion with you. Let's just say he can't kill in a game that's about killing. That's his biggest weakness.

1. If they SDI then they would get out of it. The only way you would have time to follow up is if you take em high off the ground whats stopping them from airdodging?

2. It's not that sonic can't kill it's just harder for him then some without set-ups. besides sonic's all about gimping to me. And plus he has a couple of situations that make him a deadly early killer.

 

[Camalange]

1. If they SDI then they would get out of it. The only way you would have time to follow up is if you take em high off the ground whats stopping them from airdodging?

Yeah...they generally fall below you which leaves room for a Bair. Just because they SDI out doesn't mean there isn't any hitstun. Most characters won't have enough time to react, except for maybe ZSS who could get an Uair or a few others due to frame advantage. This doesn't happen nearly enough anyway to be of any real concern. I can't think of the last time in tournament I had to say to myself "I gotta stop using Fair, they're consistently getting out of it and punishing me!" It's not a move like Snake's Nair that gives you a lot of time to SDI out. Fair is still a very safe option, if not Sonic's safest option when in the air or approaching.

2. It's not that sonic can't kill it's just harder for him then some without set-ups. besides sonic's all about gimping to me. And plus he has a couple of situations that make him a deadly early killer.

rofl

Obviously Sonic relies on gimps for kills. The bold part I'm not even going to address.

 

[Roxas1988]

Yeah...they generally fall below you which leaves room for a Bair. Just because they SDI out doesn't mean there isn't any hitstun. Most characters won't have enough time to react, except for maybe ZSS who could get an Uair or a few others due to frame advantage. This doesn't happen nearly enough anyway to be of any real concern. I can't think of the last time in tournament I had to say to myself "I gotta stop using Fair, they're consistently getting out of it and punishing me!" It's not a move like Snake's Nair that gives you a lot of time to SDI out. Fair is still a very safe option, if not Sonic's safest option when in the air or approaching.

Now this is where i would have to agree with you. Fair is def one of his best damage racker. And the only time you would ever get punished for fairing would be if ou FF like a fool. But im only talking about nair out of SDJ. We could sit here and argue all day. Which is fun since we're sharing our opinions and giving eachother feedback, but ths is merely a battle of opinions. O and I hate fighting good ZSS one of if not the hardest characters to gimp/fight in the air. and her spacing game is nerve-wracking.

 

[r3d d09]

Why Nair? Uair and Fair are such better options.



@red dog - Spindash > SDJ > Aerial

real basic stuff bro >_<

Give me a break. I'm just barely picking him up

What's the best way to fight ROB on the ground?

I'll talk to __X__ and see he can post this matchup once he's unbanned. lul

his brother is like 5th in state and he mains ROB, so X probably has the most experience in this matchup out of everyone. *but i don't know everyone's history, so no flaming *

 

[Camalange]

Now this is where i would have to agree with you. Fair is def one of his best damage racker. And the only time you would ever get punished for fairing would be if ou FF like a fool. But im only talking about nair out of SDJ.

Indeed. I already stated my opinions about aerials out of spindash so I'm not going to go back into that xD

We could sit here and argue all day. Which is fun since we're sharing our opinions and giving eachother feedback, but ths is merely a battle of opinions.

Well, at least you're reasonable. Thank you for keepin' cool.

O and I hate fighting good ZSS one of if not the hardest characters to gimp/fight in the air. and her spacing game is nerve-wracking.

She is a very interesting MU. I find it to be about even (from my experiences with Snake*e*e) due to both characters relying on gimping for most of their kills, but both of them having near impossible to gimp recoveries. They both have poor KO options. ZSS beats Sonic in the air, Sonic beats ZSS on the ground. ZSS relies a lot on her armor piece spam game. Sonic can easily take advantage of her armor due to his great glide tossing/item game. It's a very give and take MU imo. Pretty much whoever gains momentum and lands the first KO wins. I would give her a slight advantage just because she has better KO setups/strategies without gimping than Sonic does.

*asterisks added to avoid name dropping.

EDIT@red dog - I'm known pretty well for having a lot of experience against the power ranked ROBs in my state xD lol

Whoever is interested can check out my write up in the Matchup Discussion Thread. It's probably a little outdated, so after reading that you still have more questions, hit me up. I'd like to hear what X has to say as well, although he never participates in these kind of discussions.

 

[Roxas1988]

Indeed. I already stated my opinions about aerials out of spindash so I'm not going to go back into that xD



Well, at least you're reasonable. Thank you for keepin' cool.



She is a very interesting MU. I find it to be about even (from my experiences with Snake*e*e) due to both characters relying on gimping for most of their kills, but both of them having near impossible to gimp recoveries. They both have poor KO options. ZSS beats Sonic in the air, Sonic beats ZSS on the ground. ZSS relies a lot on her armor piece spam game. Sonic can easily take advantage of her armor due to his great glide tossing/item game. It's a very give and take MU imo. Pretty much whoever gains momentum and lands the first KO wins. I would give her a slight advantage just because she has better KO setups/strategies without gimping than Sonic does.

*asterisks added to avoid name dropping.

EDIT@red dog - I'm known pretty well for having a lot of experience against the power ranked ROBs in my state xD lol

Whoever is interested can check out my write up in the Matchup Discussion Thread. It's probably a little outdated, so after reading that you still have more questions, hit me up. I'd like to hear what X has to say as well, although he never participates in these kind of discussions.

I played snake*e*e as well (lolz at name dropping) and he was pretty good. I only played him in doubles though and we did pretty good against him and his teammate. I think it was his brother or something pretty good snake. We won the first match cuz i caught some early gimps on his Zss courtosy of sonic, but after that he actually switched to shiek and it was a diff ballgame from there. His Zss is amazing though i can't lie. You were right about Zss with the edge just cuz her KO potential is a bit higher than sonics. And i would have to thank you for giving me the pleasure to have a nice convo/argument with you Camalange. Ill be sure to check up on ZSS as well in the near future. So been to any tourny's with sonic lately?

 

[Camalange]

Well, I'm not aware of his bro using Snake so it was probably someone else. I'm pretty sure he only uses MK and Wario. When was this tourney and where? I'm from PA and they're from NY, so you musn't be too far away from us right? I go to NJ a lot for tournaments as well as they do, so I'm surprised I've never seen or heard of you.

 

[Roxas1988]

Well, I'm not aware of his bro using Snake so it was probably someone else. I'm pretty sure he only uses MK and Wario. When was this tourney and where? I'm from PA and they're from NY, so you musn't be too far away from us right? I go to NJ a lot for tournaments as well as they do, so I'm surprised I've never seen or heard of you.

Nope i live in NY. I sometimes go to NJ tournies as well. We played at one of the gauntlet tournies that was held in Queens. This was at the beginning of this month actually. And hey let me know if there is any tournies commin up. I'm trying to find some tournies to really get into. Also its because my tags have been inconsistent. I was always usin tags that pertained to wat anime i was watchin. Im gonna stick with my original wich is roxas. So you should be hearing about me soon enough lol.

 

[Camalange]

Ah, cool beans. What tournies do you have planned next?

 

[Roxas1988]

Ah, cool beans. What tournies do you have planned next?

idk hav'nt seen the calendar yet. Are there any major ones around here soon? Cuz iv'e been lookin to go to some in october. Lemme know if you have the schedule or somethin.

 

[r3d d09]

so what's with the haunter? seems like it's a sonic boards thing. ha

 

[Roxas1988]

so what's with the haunter? seems like it's a sonic boards thing. ha

U know I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[r3d d09]

Glad someone is on the same level as me

ha

 

[Boxob.]

lol.

 

[r3d d09]

^ ^ under 10 char *simplistically, not technicallly* and spam haha. jk.

Haunter is a cool guy.

 

[Tenki]

What's the best way to fight ROB on the ground?

If I try to keep a distance from it, I'm laser and Gyro bait, and if I try to take the fight up-close, its tilts will outspeed and outrange mine, and they end too quick for me to punish accordingly. And sidedodge -> D-smash is a given 85% of the time.

ASC has proven effective for me at times, but it hasn't helped me all the time - I've been hit out of it by f-tilt and F-smash a good amount of times to refrain me from using it frequently.

Should I just watch my spacing and try to hit with f-tilt at its maximum range most of the time? Or should I be going for grabs?

- If you start doing a move that seems to pull a spotdodge D-smash (aka dashgrab, or low-lag aerial > ground move, dash attack... etc), then use the setup and go for a SH> delayed ASC or B-air instead (ex: run, SH backwards and ASC instead of dashgrab, low-lag aerial> SH..., etc).

Remember that spindash is fairly easy to outprioritize so it's safest/best used when you're punishing something, which is why ASC as an approach will get you F-tilted/F-smashed if you get predictable with it.

This was an experimental thing I tried maybe two tourneys back (er, like, summer lol), and it was definitely useful when it worked.

First, think about this situation:

ROB uses D-tilt, and you shield it.
You try to F-tilt out of shield, but you get hit again by another D-tilt/F-tilt, due to the slight shield stun, release, and startup animation.


ROB uses D-tilt, and you shield it.
You try to F-air out of shield, but you get hit by a tilted F-tilt or something, if not a D-tilt at the beginning of your jump.

ROB uses D-tilt, and you shield it.
You try to spotdodge or roll behind his next D-tilt, but he catches you with a D-smash, since his 2nd D-tilt ended during your dodge.

It may feel like Sonic has nothing fast enough to punish him out of shield.

However, we tend to overlook the fastest move OoS - re-shield.

If you release shield during the hit, you can try powershielding the follow-up hit(s).
From a powershield, you can basically get away with anything.

It also works on MK and Marth D-tilts, if I remember the tests I did correctly lol.
And I also heard something about regular-shielding a GAW B-air, releasing, pshielding the landing hit.

Pretty cool defensive tactic.

Sort of like parrying, but brawl'd.

Also, I think throwing ROB is a pretty good idea, when possible. I heard he doesn't like being above stuff. But you also don't want to give him too much breathing room after hitting him above you, since he can pre-start one of his slower/more powerful aerials (B-air/N-air) and get you in a counterattack.

N-air is horribly.......

...... not too dangerous offline, as long as you don't have committed behavior (like spring > D-air, jumping or attacking as soon as possible to followup, or some other habit like that).

Basically, as long as you keep watch over his kill moves and 'parry' his weaker moves, you'll live to obscene %'s.

so what's with the haunter? seems like it's a sonic boards thing. ha

answer:

lol.

 

[r3d d09]

best answer ever. but the best site ever is http://maddox.xmission.com/

 

[Kinzer]

http://kanyelicious.appspot.com/http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8480473&postcount=994

Uhm... let me see if I have something to ask...

Homing attack Stalling.

Why is it banned when characters like Pit/Ness with all-around projectiles, and characters with good recoveries like LOLMK can counter it?

 

[da K.I.D.]

nair has no lag, so dont try to punish it, and instead just block what ever move he follows it up with and punish that.

 

[r3d d09]

ROB's nair is beast. a tiny bit of start up lag, but still owns

 

[Mr. Johan]

Thanks Tenki. Never thought of simply reshielding. I'll try that against ROB, and GW's turtle, since the guy that I Brawl with who mains ROB, also mains Game & Watch, lol.

ROB's Nair can't be punished. And its better to stay away from it. But on the chance of having no choice but to be close to ROB and it n-airs, can it be beat outright by either disjoint of the U-air?

 

[r3d d09]

side note, usually all ROBs have a pattern when they use the gyro and the laser. They usually do it under certain situations. expect it. if you're able to predict it and able to punish the after math. do so.

Sonic is a fast enough character to punish said stuff if you're close enough.

 

[Camalange]

You can punish Nair before it happens.



It's an odd MU since most of ROBs attacks have very little ending lag but have a lot of start up lag. You need to be in his grill so he doesn't have time to get the Nair/Laser/etc out. Take advantage of his slow aerial mobility and juggle him with Uairs/Fairs (have you read my guide?).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=100