OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So who actually still uses Sonic and places with him competitivly?

Just curious

 

[Jim Morrison]

There's Espy, Speed and Shugo. The rest I dunno about, they don't do anything noteworthy without delving deep into the archives.

 

[r3d d09]

__X__ from Utah took 2nd in a 51 entry tourney.

 

[Espy Rose]

__X__ from Utah took 2nd in a 51 entry tourney.

Funny. I heard he got third.

 

[Roxas1988]

So any ideas on why sonic isnt higher on the querr tier list. Because I feel personally he should be higher than most characters. And I say olimar's a little to high. I still havn't fought any good olimars so i wouldnt really gauge him on anything yet.

 

[Umby]

So any ideas on why sonic isnt higher on the querr tier list. Because I feel personally he should be higher than most characters. And I say pika's a little to high.

Sonic is already too high. Subpar attack/grab range, lack of reliable kill moves and setups, low attack priority, has no real approach game, few favorable matchups (those being in his favor being vs D Tier characters and below), and even if you can recover high, it generally sucks not to have an up B that doesn't auto grab the ledge. If look at it in an alternative way, Sonic is not even as good as anyone else in C Tier except maybe Sheik.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic is already too high. Subpar attack/grab range, lack of reliable kill moves and setups, low attack priority, has no real approach game, few favorable matchups (those being in his favor being vs D Tier characters and below), and even if you can recover high, it generally sucks not to have an up B that doesn't auto grab the ledge. If look at it in an alternative way, Sonic is not even as good as anyone else in C Tier except maybe Sheik.

To add a small note to this:

Sonic gets molested by Squirtle; Bowser, Lucas, and Ness all give Sonic a hard time.
Oh, and Ike.

 

[infomon]

Sonic's a decent character and deserves his current spot on the tier list. Prolly not any higher but prolly not any lower either.

 

[Roxas1988]

Sonic is already too high. Subpar attack/grab range, lack of reliable kill moves and setups, low attack priority, has no real approach game, few favorable matchups (those being in his favor being vs D Tier characters and below), and even if you can recover high, it generally sucks not to have an up B that doesn't auto grab the ledge. If look at it in an alternative way, Sonic is not even as good as anyone else in C Tier except maybe Sheik.

I can't believe this. This is blasphemy. How does he have no approach. UGH this is bull. What do you think his SD attacks are for. And if done right you could get perfect set-ups from your tilts.

To add a small note to this:

Sonic gets molested by Squirtle; Bowser, Lucas, and Ness all give Sonic a hard time.
Oh, and Ike.

This is just wrong. Why would he lose to squirtle. and for godsakes NESS. Ness gets his butt hole gimped all day by sonic. Lucas, maybe can't really say ive played good Lucas'.

 

[infomon]

Calm down, Roxas.

Sonic's spindash is a terrible approach; you will get flamed for saying such things Most of the high-tier chars can just jab to beat it. Spindash is best used as a punisher; that is, you start it, wait for the opponent to do something stupid, and then spindash in quick to hit them while they're in lag. But at high-level play, your opponent doesn't do stupid things very often, so you'll be spindashing into punishment.

 

[Camalange]

When can Roxas get banned?




Thank god someone agrees with me that Squirtle rocks Sonic. I totally disagree with the rest though. I say Ness is about even, Lucas is either even or slight advantage toward Sonic. ofc this is just imo

Bowser I'm uncertain. I only had the chance to play Vex in a 2/3 set (all three matches) and it felt about even. I didn't get a whole feel for the MU quite yet, but that's just from my experience. I need to play him more.

Same for Ike. I still feel it's about even. I'm not decided on who's advantage or not yet.

 

[Espy Rose]

When can Roxas get banned?




Thank god someone agrees with me that Squirtle rocks Sonic. I totally disagree with the rest though. I say Ness is about even, Lucas is either even or slight advantage toward Sonic. ofc this is just imo

Bowser I'm uncertain. I only had the chance to play Vex in a 2/3 set (all three matches) and it felt about even. I didn't get a whole feel for the MU quite yet, but that's just from my experience. I need to play him more.

Same for Ike. I still feel it's about even. I'm not decided on who's advantage or not yet.

I haven't played much Ike, but Vex and I agreed that if it's NOT an even match, then it's 55:45 Bowser.

I'll be playing him at HOBO on Oct. 3rd to get a better feel for the match up.

 

[infomon]

Am I the only one who thinks it takes much more than a handful of friendlies between two pro's to get any confidence about a matchup ratio?

I mean like, I know you're both just talking about your own feel for the matchup ratio, and you're not applying it generally. But even then...

 

[Camalange]

I haven't played much Ike, but Vex and I agreed that if it's NOT an even match, then it's 55:45 Bowser.

I'll be playing him at HOBO on Oct. 3rd to get a better feel for the match up.

Yeah, that seems right. OoS UpB eats Sonic pretty hard.

Am I the only one who thinks it takes much more than a handful of friendlies between two pro's to get any confidence about a matchup ratio?

I mean like, I know you're both just talking about your own feel for the matchup ratio, and you're not applying it generally. But even then...

Not friendlies. All of my claims were based off of tournament matches against people who are recognized with said characters.




and yes I agree. Hence why I made it clear that it was just my opinion.

:o

 

[Roxas1988]

Calm down, Roxas.

Sonic's spindash is a terrible approach; you will get flamed for saying such things Most of the high-tier chars can just jab to beat it. Spindash is best used as a punisher; that is, you start it, wait for the opponent to do something stupid, and then spindash in quick to hit them while they're in lag. But at high-level play, your opponent doesn't do stupid things very often, so you'll be spindashing into punishment.

ok im sorry infzy but im sensetive when it comes to sonic lol. But i dont get punished cuz i would just SDJ before they can hit me. And i dont think just jabs could stop a SDJ out of the dash. Im just saying though sonic has potential to be high tier dont fall asleep people.

 

[Tenki]

Thank god someone agrees with me that Squirtle rocks Sonic.

I do too ._.;

Squirtle's aerial attack speed (pumping out aerials) and little landing lag make it really risky to take him on in midair. Then add in a nerfed Wario aerial mobility to that too.

:/

ok im sorry infzy but im sensetive when it comes to sonic lol. But i dont get punished cuz i would just SDJ before they can hit me. And i dont think just jabs could stop a SDJ out of the dash. Im just saying though sonic has potential to be high tier dont fall asleep people.

Keep in mind that Brawl in general has little shield stun, and Sonic's spindash has pretty little shield stun as well. Characters with fast B-airs can B-air (and some can U-air) out of shield and hit you out of SDJ (well, more correctly, SDJ>aerial, since it seems to almost be a reflex to hit jump and attack after SDR makes contact with shield). Obviously, you can also try springing out of SDR, but it still doesn't make SDJ the guaranteed safety escape you'd expect it to be.

Also, jabs clang with SDR (if not, beat it flat out). But it's more likely for jab to outprioritize SDJ, since it doesn't clang with normal moves.

In fact, one way to counter a Sonic who's abusing iSDR (invincible spindash roll, on certain stages) is to just camp for the SDJ.

NEVER FORGET​

 

[Roxas1988]

Who do you think(besides MK) is a solid secondary for sonic? Im currently using pikachu. Any suggestions?
Funny *** pic of sonic by the way. LOL

 

[infomon]

Pika's a pretty good main for a Sonic player

but I'm one of the ppl who just can't give up Sonic, he's too great

 

[Roxas1988]

Pika's a pretty good main for a Sonic player

but I'm one of the ppl who just can't give up Sonic, he's too great

I know exactly whatcha mean. The thing I love about sonic is how creative you have to play in order to get those kills. Plus his whole style of play is just fun as hell. And yea i've been told off at alot of tournies i go to about maining sonic. But its people like wes and orochi that show them hey even sonic can be a problem. Plus i get a little tired of seeing MK sometimes. Know what i mean? lol And what are your thoughts on pit as a back up. I get alot for mentioning him for some reason.

 

[r3d d09]

Funny. I heard he got third.

my bad, yeah. he got 3rd. I was thinking of Yaz who was with me when i was posting. Yaz got 2nd >.> thanks for the correction.

 

[Tenki]

General rule of choosing a secondary - it covers your main's (or your personal) matchup weaknesses.

That, or you're equally good with it and can easily transition between it and your main.

i've been told off at alot of tournies i go to about maining sonic. But its people like wes and orochi that show them hey even sonic can be a problem

Orochi?

Sonic Orochi helped make video guides of the info we had here and he contributed a bit earlier in 08, but I don't know much about him ever going to a tourney. But then again, we don't really hear much about tourneys in Brazil.

Last I heard of him was something about WoW, I think.

Where have you been/do you even know who the current placers with Sonic are?

 

[Roxas1988]

General rule of choosing a secondary - it covers your main's (or your personal) matchup weaknesses.

That, or you're equally good with it and can easily transition between it and your main.



Orochi?

Sonic Orochi helped make video guides of the info we had here and he contributed a bit earlier in 08, but I don't know much about him ever going to a tourney. But then again, we don't really hear much about tourneys in Brazil.

Last I heard of him was something about WoW, I think.

Where have you been/do you even know who the current placers with Sonic are?

yeaa i meant orochi for providing the info, The last tourny i went to wes lost against ally i believe in the winners semis, and ally went on to win the tourny. But i currently dont have a list of placers with sonic. If you do i would love to see the top placing sonic. That way i could get some info on his meta game.

 

[r3d d09]

General rule of choosing a secondary - it covers your main's (or your personal) matchup weaknesses.

yeah, but i actually need to find a main. I've been hopping around mains ever since i got into brawl in May i believe :/.
Gone from D3, wario *before he was high tier*, IC's, Peach, Snake, Marth. haha

But I've stuck with IC's and Peach the longest. I consider them my mains, neither are secondaries since i play both equally. ha

But sonic fits more of my style, I'm told MK would fit my style more... but i'm not going to main him ha

 

[Umby]

So some of you guys (Mainly Shado) mentioned that my approaches are weird for a Sonic. While reviewing this in the Xat chat, I noticed that I randomly did dash-> pivot -> SH Fair. Maybe this is viable to be used more often? I currently have issues with rampant spotdodgers, and even when I try to wait or pivot grab, I get nothing out of it. With fair's multi-hit, this might be a good option for approaching around a spot dodge.

 

[Boxob.]

Well yeah, fair's a long move. You could say the same thing about Usmash on tall characters. lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ASC beats spotdodge unless its timed very well.

same goes for up air, and fair.

one move thats really good against spotdodges (but awful vs everything else) are dairs around the head level of the opponent.

i think squirtle is one of the very few characters that sonic can camp and zone with his range advantage. when i play squirtles i play very slow (lol) and do a lot of spacing with bair ftilt and f smash. and than after they get annoyed by the spacing games the get inside and leave themselves open to grabs... and than the matchup gets really fun. =D

 

[Kinzer]

To add a small note to this:

Sonic gets molested by Squirtle; Bowser, Lucas, and Ness all give Sonic a hard time.
Oh, and Ike.

WTF Ike?

Jesus please don't get me started on how Ike is just one big mindgame that can be overcome like Sonic if you know how slow he is outside of a few attacks.

I don't care about the other characters enough to argue them, but good lord the only thing Ike has going for him over Sonic is power and range at a huge cost of everything else.

This is just wrong. Why would he lose to squirtle. and for godsakes NESS. Ness gets his butt hole gimped all day by sonic. Lucas, maybe can't really say ive played good Lucas'.

You're probably getting trolled, but try not to fret too much.

Also:

Im just saying though sonic has potential to be high tier dont fall asleep people.

People have the power to get Sonic higher. Sonic right now in the metagame is right where he belongs, take some or leave some. It's basically tourney results and willpower that keep him from dropping.

I've nothing else to say for now, I'm just going to make one more post in the un-stickied trheads until I disappear due to laziness/schoolwork again.

...And to check if my pranked status has gone over. I should get premium in that case.

 

[Tenki]

With fair's multi-hit, this might be a good option for approaching around a spot dodge.

F-air's hitbox ends earlier than any of Sonic's other aerials.

It only lasts long when it actually makes contact with something.

a falling U-air (timed so you land closer to its IASA point) would feel safer to punish a spotdodge (or rather, safer to miss with).

 

[Roxas1988]

Thank you Kingzer and for those that actually believe these blasphemous assumptions on sonic losing out to effing NESS and SQUIRTLE please try again cuz theres no way you should be losing to these characters.

 

[Umby]

Thank you Kingzer and for those that actually believe these blasphemous assumptions on sonic losing out to effing NESS and SQUIRTLE please try again cuz theres no way you should be losing to these characters.

Ness < Sonic
Squirtle > Sonic

Not by a huge margin, but still, the advantage that Squirtle has over Sonic has can be seen clearly.

 

[Kinzer]

Too bad Squirtle isn't a character by himself, so he has to work with fatigue and all that blah blah blah that I really don't care to argue.

 

[Roxas1988]

Too bad Squirtle isn't a character by himself, so he has to work with fatigue and all that blah blah blah that I really don't care to argue.

Exactly i dont even consider him a real threat because the only thing im worried about when i fight a squirtle is when he's gonna fsmash cuz of those SA frames. But other than that his game cant be compared to sonic's sorry.

 

[Tenki]

^hasn't played a competent PT yet?

space with aerials, jab-trip-grab, grabrelease>jab-trip-grab, more spacing with aerials (not just throwing them out), mini juggles, etc.


iono

maybe it's just because we've played against reflex lol.

 

[Roxas1988]

^hasn't played a competent PT yet?

space with aerials, jab-trip-grab, grabrelease>jab-trip-grab, more spacing with aerials (not just throwing them out), mini juggles, etc.


iono

maybe it's just because we've played against reflex lol.

lol yea i really havnt played anyone noteworthy with PT. So cant say anything. I've only seen vids and from what i've seen he isn't much of a threat in my eyes. But i'll just have to take your word on it cuz if you've played actual PT mains or actual PT players then i can't say anything. But even then a good sonic player wouldn't lose to a squirtle i find it highly unlikely. Sorry tenki.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic definitely loses to Squirtle. lol



I haven't played Ref1ex, but I've played and beaten At0msk in a low tier tourney. Squirtle was by far the most challenging when played correctly. Fsmash is also probably his worst KO move. Usmash is a lot scarier.

Some think Sonic loses to Ivysaur, but I think Sonic has the advantage there. This all just imo again.

I'm kinda iffy on Charizard. I want to say Charizard wins though, but idk.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i must need to play better PTs then.

i dont feel that squirt in nearly as formidable in the air as wario is, he may have similar mobility but his aerials dont seem to be nearly as rapetastic as warios, except for up air.

but w/e. i guess its just me

 

[r3d d09]

quick question. you can only cancel SideB on the ground with a shield, correct?

you can only cancel DownB from the air when you land on the ground.

Last thing, every time i Side/Down B to the opponent, and try to Uair them to the air to continue onto a jump, Uair, spring. etc. it never works. am i too early or too late hitting them to knock them in the air?

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, you just landed after using your 2nd jump with a spindash. You have to jump normally before spindashing on the ground again. You can't use your 2nd jump out of a spindash otherwise.

 

[r3d d09]

i found the answer to my first two questions.

but my last one, i just need to know what to do to knock the player up in the air after my spindash hits them. ha scrub question.

 

[Camalange]

...jump?

._.

you hit with spindash...spindash jump...aerial...