Official Snake Q&A Area

[rahsosprout]

What you just posted is for marth's regular rolls. Like when you press shield and move the control stick to the side.

There is more than one type of roll. There is a roll started from teching the ground. There is one from when Marth is laying on the ground face up and even a different one for when marth is laying on the ground face down. After Snake's Dthrow, Marth is laying on the ground facing up. That forward roll does not gain invincibility until frame 6 on the move.

Also, anytime Snake uses dthrow on any character, they can act out of the dthrow one frame faster than Snake can (which is why in my diagram snake's ftilt starts on that number 2 and the hits on number 5).

Ohh haha that clears up a lot. Thanks. I didn't know about that 1 frame later thing and I had a feeling that was referring to a different roll type of roll -_-.

Ok so I guess it's very safe to just always buffer the f-tilt since you will hit with it if they either buffer the roll or wait anywhere between 1-5 frames before rolling (the 5th frame because the duration of the hitbox for f-tilt is 2 frames).

EDIT: I never know what to do if they just lay there so that usually lets people get away from me, but if they're dumb enough to do the same thing, I usually SH Dair. Do you guys have suggestions or better alternatives to that? Also which way do they have to SDI to get out of the Dair?

 

[Kuro~]

You can uptilt or dair.

 

[Attila_]

Dair must be Sdi-Ed sideways.

Some characters will naturally pop out on the 3rd hit, unless they trip. Diddy always seems to be knocked under hits at times.

Thanks for clearing up that marth thing xeylode, it now makes sense.

 

[Kuro~]

Does the PDACG give the same grab range boost as if you were to just do a sliding pivot grab? Both make you slide but i can't tell whether they have the same range or not.

PDACG=Pivot dash attack cancel grab.

reverse boost grab makes you slide further away than a standard boost grab, which also means that you get less range on the grab as it comes out when you're farther.

Can som1 clarify this again. There's two pivot grabs that make you slide. What i want to know is if the one that involves dash attack canceling is better or worse.

 

[theONEjanitor]

snake does well against pikachu? news to me.

i use Pit as a secondary, but if you're trying to play, like, a good character then maybe he's not the best choice. but he also does decent against some of snakes bad matchups like falco and ddd. and honestly I like Pit vs MK more than Snake vs MK. Falco is a decent choice, but then you have no real answer for good MKs. and you'll have to learn the falco ditto.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@janitor: Well, snake does well agaisnt Pikachu if the comparison is Falco vs Pikachu.
@Kuro: I had no idea there were multiple ways to boost pivot grab.

 

[Kuro~]

Haha ya. But snake vs pikachu can be one ***** of a mu to play out. This coming from the guy in Fl. So normally i'd just go pit. But as i've said before i'm sucking it up and going all snake till apex since i'll be going solo snake in bracket.


@Xey yuuuup. That's why i'm wanting to find out which is better x.o cuz it's a pretty vital thing to know.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I think going all-snake is a recipe for disaster lol

 

[Attila_]

Snake and ics cover everything that isnt Brinstar. Theyre rather difficult to pick up though.

 

[Kuro~]

Apex has brinstar and rc banned. I'm good. There is no other thing that would cause trouble. I live in FL. I have some of the best players of literally every character down here. MUs won't be a problem.

I think going all-snake is a recipe for disaster lol

Only if you're bad.

 

[theONEjanitor]

it only works if all the MKs, falcos, pikachus, olimars, marths, and ddds in your tournament are bad

 

[Orion*]

No thanks. Cuz i actually enjoy fd vs falco more than bf but since i have yet to master the air release i haven't bothered. (just the potential for it on fd is pretty good...it's guarenteed fresh kill moves when he's at mid %)

or just cg to ledge and give him limited tech chase options.

 

[theONEjanitor]

is ff airdodge buffer jab quicker than normal land jab?

 

[Kuro~]

it only works if all the MKs, falcos, pikachus, olimars, marths, and ddds in your tournament are bad

-1 0 -1 -1 -1...what are u trying to say again?

I have some of the best of each of those to teach me...i'll be good.


@Orion ya that'd be good for low % option. And once in high % do what i said. Imo that's best.

 

[rahsosprout]

MK

then you realize that you're better off just maining MK

then you get bored

and realize you're better off just quitting the game

Sadly, I'm starting to realize this a bit. I got destroyed as Snake today and then I switched to MK and won -_- though I don't know about quitting the game. How long before I'm considered to old to play Smash? haha

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I think going all-snake is a recipe for disaster lol

it only works if all the MKs, falcos, pikachus, olimars, marths, and ddds in your tournament are bad

Honestly, going all Snake is not a horrible idea. Even though it is a single example, look at what Ally did for the first year or so he went all Snake. Basically always top 8 and making 1st in a number of tournaments. Snake has the potential to solo it. It will just be a difficult road to getting that great at it.

or just cg to ledge and give him limited tech chase options.

I really wish this was more viable on more than one stage -_- Okay, SV i possible if you get lucky with that platform going out of the way, but eventually it will get in your way.

is ff airdodge buffer jab quicker than normal land jab?

I'm not sure I follow what is meant by the normal land. If you mean not adding in a FF and airdodge, then I would say yes.

Sadly, I'm starting to realize this a bit. I got destroyed as Snake today and then I switched to MK and won -_- though I don't know about quitting the game. How long before I'm considered to old to play Smash? haha

I know a couple people who are 25 and still playing. Old melee vets. It's more of what will stop you from playing first.

But consider what you really find important with the game. There is easily a ton you can do with the game to keep you interested if you set the right goal. You can aim to try to go for the top taking home a ton of prize money from winning. You can strive to enjoy all the people you will meet at tournament and think of it as a good time rather than winning. There is the goal of trying to get better simply because you like to challenge yourself. You could do even start doing some developments or something through hacking.

The same goes with picking a person to always play. I think it took me like 7-8 months since I got the game to actually find one character, then another 7 months before I finally decided to pick snake. I still cannot get used to MK's cheap damage lol Good character, but he does chip damage. It's like playing pichu in melee. YOu get like a 30 second long combo with pichu going and realize that you only went from 0-60% even after landing like a dozen hits xD

 

[Attila_]

It took people a while to realize that snake actually wasn't that god of a character. You don't see too many snake main's winning anything big without secondaries nowadays.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

What exactly do you guys think that the Diddy Kong mu is? I'm asking because i've seen(What I feel to be) too many Diddy Kongs complain about this mu being ridiculous, & in Snake's favor. I've always thought it was supposed to be even, because of how well he can edgeguard us, & that most of host kill moves send us horizontal where our DI isn't all that great, taking away that advantage that we usually have being living so long. Just curious though as to what you guys were thinking about it.

 

[etecoon]

slightly in snake's favor, diddy has better control tools but dies a lot earlier, snake is also one of the few characters that can use bananas almost as well as diddy so it hurts his gimmick factor a lot

 

[Orion*]

snake is also one of the few characters that can use bananas almost as well as diddy so it hurts his gimmick factor a lot

I don't agree with this at all. Diddy has much easier catch times, combos, setups ect into bananas than snake could dream of unless some new **** has come out that I haven't seen yet.

Irregardless the fact that diddy has an airgrab and is much more mobile will be a huge factor imo

 

[Kuro~]

Imo 40-60 to 45-55

We have no solid ability to hit him, and his shield is retardedly good at blocking bananas without shield poking. I almost never shield poke snakes with a toss. His up close frame data and absurd weight make this matchup aggravating as hell. If we had the ability to make Snake approach, this matchup would be ez, but his grenades beat out peanuts (like every move in the game).

The key to winning is precision. Don't make mistakes. Snake is a character that like Ike, relies on quick reads. Never whiff anything, and you'll take 50% less damage than necessary. Fortunately for us, Snake is partly ***, and you can grab the ledge or air camp if you ever feel pressured. This is only unique vs. Snake. Here are some notes on the matchup:

-Our best stages against him are neutrals, like Battlefield and Smashville. The worst are counterpicks that make approaching difficult, such as Halberd and Castle Seige.
-You can stop his camping by SH or FH throwing bananas at him over the grenades. This works 100% of the time, and you'll get a reaction that isn't grenade guaranteed.
-Side b grabbing stops over-shielding Snakes.
-Destroy mines he sets down, because they almost never work in our favor.
-Grab him and throw him off-stage alot, as Snake only has about 3 basic landing options which are easy to punish with practice.
-Be sure to nail your combos, because if you don't, that's an instant 21% or more.

It's doable, but still hard. If he throws out moves with perfect timing Diddy Kong gets completely *****.

This was from a recentish thread by adhd.


Also, if rc/brinstar were banned. I'm 100% sure i could see ally winning with snake sometimes. (assuming solo snake)

Also, plenty AND I MEAN PLENTY of snake mains have high placings. They may not win but it's definitely feasible to make into the money with solo snake.

 

[theONEjanitor]

diddy and ICs are the only high tier that Snake actually beats imo. Why is he third again? Oh, yeah, Ally.

btw I'm 26 and dont plan on quittin anytime soon i never cared about tier whoring, but I just don't think MK is fun at all. don't really think most of the good characters are fun actually lol. I like Snake and thats about it. i think low/mid tier tournaments are way more fun than regular tournaments


@Xeylode, I mean FF-airdodge-buffer jab vs FF-normal land-jab

 

[DJ Arcatek]

I don't know if this has been figured out yet, but somehow, I was able to do 2 cyphers in a row.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47d6xvsu9Lg

Go to 2:23. I didn't get hit. No C4. Nada. What triggered that?

 

[Deathfox30]

I think the 1% you took from being so close to the blast zone reset your cypher.

 

[Kuro~]

diddy and ICs are the only high tier that Snake actually beats imo. Why is he third again? Oh, yeah, Ally.

btw I'm 26 and dont plan on quittin anytime soon i never cared about tier whoring, but I just don't think MK is fun at all. don't really think most of the good characters are fun actually lol. I like Snake and thats about it. i think low/mid tier tournaments are way more fun than regular tournaments


@Xeylode, I mean FF-airdodge-buffer jab vs FF-normal land-jab

The bolded part is so wrong.

 

[etecoon]

The bolded part is so wrong.

of course

snake isn't the third best character

that's ridiculous

 

[F A N G]

I think the 1% you took from being so close to the blast zone reset your cypher.

But that was before he dropped off the cypher

 

[-Ran]

I don't know if this has been figured out yet, but somehow, I was able to do 2 cyphers in a row.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47d6xvsu9Lg

Go to 2:23. I didn't get hit. No C4. Nada. What triggered that?

Wario may have soft footstooled you when attempting to get out of your Nair. Footstools occur on frame 1.

 

[Kuro~]

of course

snake isn't the third best character

that's ridiculous

Gdfo. You were too weak and ended up on meta so you have no say.

 

[Attila_]

snake doesn't beat diddy kong. no one says that anymore.

doesn't beat marth/falco/mk/wario/oli/d3 either.

hell, we don't actually beat (6:4) most of mid tier either.r

and we probably beats pika, we just need to get better.

ally is the only reason for snake's placement. the only one.

 

[Deathfox30]

But that was before he dropped off the cypher

It doesn't matter. If you get hit by a non-grab move during cypher it gives you a new one. Mario's cape also gives you a new one but I don't think wind hitboxes do. And footstools reset all Up B's.

So the game probably lets you cypher again whenever you take damage after starting your first cypher. I could be wrong though, it should be tested with the blast zone damage.

 

[Kuro~]

snake doesn't beat diddy kong. no one says that anymore.

doesn't beat marth/falco/mk/wario/oli/d3 either.

hell, we don't actually beat (6:4) most of mid tier either.r

and we probably beats pika, we just need to get better.

ally is the only reason for snake's placement. the only one.

Plenty of ppl say that still. There's no way snake isn't a soft counter to diddy kong.

nope but he doesn't lose to them terribly either...only -1 on marth/d3 and MAYBE pika and goes even with flacoman and spaceman.

You don't have to have mk level mus to be in top 5.aka 70:30 on 90% of mid tier. (yes exaggeration)

Ally is not the sole reason.

 

[F A N G]

It doesn't matter. If you get hit by a non-grab move during cypher it gives you a new one. Mario's cape also gives you a new one but I don't think wind hitboxes do. And footstools reset all Up B's.

So the game probably lets you cypher again whenever you take damage after starting your first cypher. I could be wrong though, it should be tested with the blast zone damage.

I tried it with Falco's laser. Shot during cypher, no new one. Shot after, new one.

Doesn't work with blastzone damage at all

Probably what -Ran said.

Why do you all (among others) think Snake is so bad?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Why do you all (among others) think Snake is so bad?

He has a lot of blind spots actually. Recovery being the main thing along with getting stuck in the air after an attack.

 

[Kuro~]

He has a lot of blind spots actually. Recovery being the main thing along with getting stuck in the air after an attack.

His strengths make up for it a bunch though. Difficulty to use does not = how good he is. Just cuz he takes a HUGE time investment to be able to place high consistently with him cuz you HAVE to know many many things about him and mu and technical aspects as well strategic aspects it doesn't mean he's bad or not top 3 or top 5 for that matter.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

snake doesn't beat diddy kong. no one says that anymore.

doesn't beat marth/falco/mk/wario/oli/d3 either.

hell, we don't actually beat (6:4) most of mid tier either.r

and we probably beats pika, we just need to get better.

ally is the only reason for snake's placement. the only one.

Also yeah that's something else that was argued for Snake's placement last tier list was that Snake doesn't actually have any solid, wreck another character MUs. It's just his ability to compete with mk, & high tier I think.

I think it'd be kind of hard for us to do more than even with Pika, seeing as how he has a cg to like 90% or something like that on us.

Plenty of ppl say that still. There's no way snake isn't a soft counter to diddy kong.

nope but he doesn't lose to them terribly either...only -1 on marth/d3 and MAYBE pika and goes even with flacoman and spaceman.

You don't have to have mk level mus to be in top 5.aka 70:30 on 90% of mid tier. (yes exaggeration)

Ally is not the sole reason.

Yeah the thing with our current metagame that gets you good tier placement is your mk mu lol. Then I think after that overall mus are taken in to account or something.

Also from what i've read Ally makes up 30% of our metagame somehow, so i'd think that he would have to have made a pretty good impact on Snake's placement. Also from what the people who make those charts saying how much money each character has made have said, Ally has made the majority of that money for Snake so yeah just my two cents on the matter. =D

 

[Kuro~]

No he hasn't...on the graphs that nationals weren't taken into account snake still had the second highest amount of money earned.

We have plenty of top snakes. Idk how yall aren't seeing this. And those good snakes go solo snake. And place close to or in the money each time. And snakes like havok and bizkit are constantly getting better. It is not his mu with mk that he's high at all. Sure it's a benefactor but it is not as big a reason as you guys are suggesting.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

Wario may have soft footstooled you when attempting to get out of your Nair. Footstools occur on frame 1.

Hmm, possibly. Wouldn't there be some kind of animation for that, though? I've actually never even heard of "soft footstooling" LOL

 

[Deathfox30]

Soft footstooling or "featherstooling" is when you footstool a character while they're doing a move. They don't go into the footstool animation and it doesn't cancel the move; you just get a boost.

@FANG Yeah I was wrong. xD

 

[Ralph Cecil]

That's what I meant. Snake was second highest, & Ally was the one contributing the most of it.

EDIT:Also i'm not trying to say the other snake aren't good though. They've done some really awesome things recently so kudos to them. =D