Official Snake Q&A Area

[SwordAUT]

1. Does the nade come out on the 1st frame?
2. Do the hitboxes of DTilt and UTilt really come out the same time? Frame 6, huh?
3. Is DTilt weaker than UTilt?
4. How to platform cancel with another aerial than Dair? I always used crouch, but it's pretty tough to dash out of it without losing frames.
5. What are the best options after dthrowing someone at the ledge (enemy is offstage)? Regrab when enemy hasn't a fast aerial and shield > punish (bair?), if he does?
6. Can you buffer only the 1st move of the ftilt?
7. I saw a video on youtube where a Snake does some crazy things with the triple jump glitch on BF. Does anyone know the video? ~.~ Lost it and it would be interesting to learn.

Thanks to whoever answers my questions... Love you :o

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

1. Does the nade come out on the 1st frame?
2. Do the hitboxes of DTilt and UTilt really come out the same time? Frame 6, huh?
3. Is DTilt weaker than UTilt?
4. How to platform cancel with another aerial than Dair? I always used crouch, but it's pretty tough to dash out of it without losing frames.
5. What are the best options after dthrowing someone at the ledge (enemy is offstage)? Regrab when enemy hasn't a fast aerial and shield > punish (bair?), if he does?
6. Can you buffer only the 1st move of the ftilt?
7. I saw a video on youtube where a Snake does some crazy things with the triple jump glitch on BF. Does anyone know the video? ~.~ Lost it and it would be interesting to learn.

1. yes
2. yes, but if you go into a crouch first before using dtilt, it's slower. (you can make a dtilt without going into a crouch)
3. I believe Utilt (stronghit) > Dtilt > Utilt (weakhit)
4. I never successfully platform cancel (so no idea )
5. Utilt, jab, ftilt, (for being fast or hitting low), but people can usually avoid it anyway.
6. not sure i get the question
7. nope, sorry

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Relating to question 6:

What are you trying to buffer it out of? But yes, you can buffer F-Tilt 1 without doing 2 since, its a another input to do the second hit of F-Tilt.

 

[zmx]

Sheild Drop grenade press jump and press attack. You have to do it quickly.

As for the air. Sheild drop grenade pick it up and use your cypher (up B) than use your prefered aerial

Thanks I figured that out yesterday. But one thing you are wrong about. You don't need to do an UP b to do it in the air. Simply jump and do an air attack quickly after dropping a nade. There's also the way shown in that video.

 

[SwordAUT]

Relating to question 6:

What are you trying to buffer it out of? But yes, you can buffer F-Tilt 1 without doing 2 since, its a another input to do the second hit of F-Tilt.

Haven't tested it yet, but I buffered ftilt out of an AD and snake always did both moves.

btw, thanks xeylode

 

[zmx]

Thanks I figured that out yesterday. But one thing you are wrong about. You don't need to do an UP b to do it in the air. Simply jump and do an air attack quickly after dropping a nade. There's also the way shown in that video.

Wait a minute. I misread what you said. You can even do any attack on the ground while holding a nade? I tried to do what you said (drop grenade then jump+attack) but I always end up doing an air attack with the nade in my hand. Never a ground attack. Is my timing off or something?

 

[Kuro~]

Does anyone know what frame rapid jab comes out each hit?

Trying to find something punish dumb spotdodges(e.g. falco, diddy.)

I was thinking rapid jab to crouch cancel dash grab as their first instinct would be shield 90% of the time.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Rabid jab should work if they keep spot dodging in place.

If jab hits, either cancel it or go for the 2nd/3rd jab hit.
If you hit shield, you'll have to guess between canceling it or going for the 2nd/3rd jab.
If you hit a powershield, there's not much you can do about it, they have the advantage. If they keep shield held after a powershield, same scenario as before.
If they roll, cancel the jabbing and punish (ftilt/dash attack)

There is a chance that they can get an attack out between jabs, but really the only thing they can do is jab back. In which case, DI the jab as it comes to you and punish or get away.

Alternatively, you could try for a dash attack into usmash escape. Dash attacks lasts about 9 frames. So if timed right you'll hit them out of the spotdodge spam. If not, you will just slide away relatively unpunished.

 

[Attila_]

Diddy will powershield rapid jab 9 times out of 10. For serious.

But bait the spotdodge and try to pivot grab.

 

[Kuro~]

Will i just remember one time a falco was using spotdodge prowess and kept messing up the timing on the punish so i was trying to find an easy way out without putting myself at too much risk. Cuz it could lead to easy free dmg. I'll just test out some stuff.

 

[F A N G]

Who would you recommend as a secondary to use against Snake?

MK doesn't really work for me, at least not against Snake.
Snake dittos are fun sometimes, but I'm looking for someone else.

 

[Kuro~]

I use pit, but i'd just recommend falco...don't u use him?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Telling people to recommend stuff for you isn't going to work out the best. You really just have to go out and experiment with different characters. Often times you'll find that characters simply grow on you the more you use them.

-If you want to do well in Tournament, try out various mid/high/top tier characters as those are the most tournament viable. Watch the higher ups playing in 1v1 to get an idea of play styles and try mimicking it. If you like it, try it out for a little longer until your satisfied.
-If you are looking to cover certain match-ups, figure out which characters give you issues and look up there difficult match-ups and learn a bit about each. With a little bit of looking around you'll find a choice that should work for you.
-If there are stages you dislike playing on, I recommend probably figuring out a character that might do well on those. I honestly have no opinion on that other than I have heard people mention that Sonic, Wario, MK are relatively unaffected by stages.
-There are probably other reasons you might want to try mixing and matching. For example, since I started playing melee more, I've been wanting to play a bit more technical character. I'm looking into playing peach or simply fox as a faster character. Hell, even captain falcon.

Or as etecoon will say, "just main mk"

 

[-Ran]

Rapid Jab frames are:
3, 12, 21, 30, 39, 48.

Jab1 can IASA into Jab1 at frame 6. There's eight frames in total in between hitboxes. I remember looking into this before. I'll double check it tomorrow, just turned off my Wii.

 

[someonerandom]

How does the buffering on SH airdodge to BDACUS work? Are you buffering on landing frames or airdodge frames? Technical stuff always confused me.

Thanks. ^_^

 

[Attila_]

dont bother with bdacus.

top falcos still aren't doing it consistently, and it's a large part of their game.

it's practically useless to us, and stuffing it up may mean getting punished hard.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol That's Brawl's technical side for you. We have some pretty technically challenging stuff at times, but it's nearly always more trouble than it's worth it seems.
DDD's got this insane stand in place chaingrab on Snake. Too bad it's so complicated for actual tournament play. Or Yoshi can do a form of wavedashing in a way, but it's probably more difficult than multishining with fox.

 

[zmx]

Nobody has answered my question yet. Is it possible to do any attack (smashes, tilts,) while holding a nade? If so how? I know you can do Fsmash and dash attacks (by dropping the nade and picking it up while doing it).


And I have another question. What is the proper way to momentum cancel with snake? I'm looking on how to for both horizontal and vertical momentum canceling. Because according to the wiki snake's airdodge is better then any of his aerials. But I see top snakes in videos often using bair to do it for vertical and horizontal momentum.

 

[False]

dont bother with bdacus.

top falcos still aren't doing it consistently, and it's a large part of their game.

it's practically useless to us, and stuffing it up may mean getting punished hard.

BDACUSing with Snake isn't hard.

See it as this way: For most characters' dacuses, there's usually a medium that indicates a failed dacus. (they won't go the distance they should) like take wario for example. If you fail his DACUS, he'll just slide a little bit with his usmash. however, with snake, there is no in between. he either goes the full distance or you do something ******** like grab. you either get it or you don't, because his DACUS is considered the easiest in the game. (I'm sure his usmash/dash attack has a special property that allows this)

In NO way should you compare the difficulty of Falco's bdacus to Snake's. I can do Snake's EVERY single time consistently, but I fail at doing Falcos.

BDACUSing with snake is extremely easy. Try spot dodging, and inputting -> on control stick and up on c stick twice. I guarantee you within your first 3 tries you'll get it.

 

[Mike2]

Any tips for playing against needle camping Shiek?

 

[Attila_]

Pretty sure all Bdacuses are the sane input (4 frame perfect inputs), but since snake gains no extra distance you can't tell the difference between buffering a dash attack usmash and performing a bdacus.

The two are very different input wise, but with snake you can't tell the difference.

 

[zmx]

Pretty sure all Bdacuses are the sane input (4 frame perfect inputs), but since snake gains no extra distance you can't tell the difference between buffering a dash attack usmash and performing a bdacus.

The two are very different input wise, but with snake you can't tell the difference. I think it would throw a lot of people off guard this way whereas normally it is easy to punish.

Yes but through Bdacus you can immediately do it right after some lag such as a spotdogdge.

Oh and I disagree that it's a lot easier then falco's. Easier definetly. I just tried it for the first time and was able to do it twice after about 20 tries. Falco's I haven't even done once iirc. Trying through spot dodge.

Edit: Never mind I can't even do snake's now. Guess it was just luck.

Btw can anyone confirm they can do bdacus consistantly with a classic controller? I think that might be the problem for me.

 

[Attila_]

Bdacus: (last 2 frames of a move) forward + cstick (exact same frame), one frame wait (exactly), usmash on very next frame.

This is a universal input. It is the same for every character.

What you're doing is buffering a dash attack (last 6 frames) and doing an usmash.

Snake will cover the same distance with the same with the same timing regardless of which method is used.

Falco does not.

Tldr: falco's bdacus is the same timing as snakes; you all aren't bdacusing.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Does anyone know what frame rapid jab comes out each hit?

Trying to find something punish dumb spotdodges(e.g. falco, diddy.)

I was thinking rapid jab to crouch cancel dash grab as their first instinct would be shield 90% of the time.

I don't think Snake has any 100% reliable way to punish stupid spotdodges, which is lame. It's going to be a mixup/luck.

Or you could develop the ability to react before the 2 frames of vulnerability is done, I dunno i guess its possible, I certainly can't do it with any consistency.

Against people who don't DI it, Dair works sometimes. pivot grabbing can work with Falco when he spotdodges because falcos like to jab after spotdodge, and a pivot grab will beat that and most everything else.

I thought rapid jab was every 6 frames? either way 6 or 8 is too many frames to punish a 2 frame window of opportunity.
but falco's probably my personal worst matchup in this game, so don't listen to me.

 

[False]

Falco is definitely open for punish when he spot dodges in my opinion. D3 however... ****.

I suppose against d3 the logical thing to do when he spams spot dodge is to take out a grenade, and grab? If you miss then you have the nade to help you for that obvious stupid CG.

 

[Attila_]

Isn't his spotdodge total faster than we can pull out a nade and grab?

Best option is pivot grab IMO.

 

[Crackle]

GATEWAY ERROR WHYYY

5. What are the best options after dthrowing someone at the ledge (enemy is offstage)? Regrab when enemy hasn't a fast aerial and shield > punish (bair?), if he does?
6. Can you buffer only the 1st move of the ftilt?

5) This was posted recently, but tilting down on the stick (not so much to crouch) and jumping up to the platform and releasing the tilt-down will leave you on the platform pretty easily.
6) I am pretty sure if you buffer ftilt it will be both hits, but if you wait until the first frame after an attack it will just be ftilt1.

 

[zmx]

So can anybody tell me the proper way to momentum cancel with snake? Should I air dodge then jump or Bair and then jump? Obviously this is for horizontal momentum cancelling. Not sure how to do vertical either.

 

[Mike2]

airdodge --> jump for horizontal.

dair for vertical

also another question, I see top snakes doing airdodge --> jump --> airdodge. Does being in that z-axis somehow help you live or something?

 

[False]

Isn't his spotdodge total faster than we can pull out a nade and grab?

Best option is pivot grab IMO.

well the option I proposed was when he's spamming spot dodge.

 

[Attila_]

airdodge --> jump for horizontal.

dair for vertical

also another question, I see top snakes doing airdodge --> jump --> airdodge. Does being in that z-axis somehow help you live or something?

Pretty sure you can't die when you're invincible. I started doing this recently and it makes a pretty big difference.

 

[zmx]

airdodge --> jump for horizontal.

dair for vertical

also another question, I see top snakes doing airdodge --> jump --> airdodge. Does being in that z-axis somehow help you live or something?

Okay so I was right. I also thought dair would be the best for vertical since you fast fall as well. But the thing is I see a lot of top snakes doing back air instead for vertical. So I'm not sure.

Is it perhaps because bair comes out faster then dair or something? Meaning bair might actually be better?

edit: some top snakes even use uair for vertical

 

[F A N G]

I'm pretty sure the hitbox alignment thing is bull, but Bair is faster and should be the best.

Uair is almost as fast, and there's no chance of accidentally using Fair (if you're mildly competent).

 

[Attila_]

in that sense, dair comes out on frame 3, so it should be the best.

i use uair, seems to work best. especially since you almost never die vertically, but in an arc shape dying on the horizontal.

although in theory, i think bair works best.

hmmmm...

 

[zmx]

I see. So either bair or uair is best for vertical momentum cancelling. Technically it's bair since it comes out fastest. However since you might not realize which way you're facing in time and accidentally do fair, uair is the best option since it's almost as fast anyways.

Sound about right?

Also for DI when you get knocked vertically you want to DI left or right correct? Since it's best to aim for the corners since they are furthest from the blast zone?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I see. So either bair or uair is best for vertical momentum cancelling. Technically it's bair since it comes out fastest. However since you might not realize which way you're facing in time and accidentally do fair, uair is the best option since it's almost as fast anyways.

Sound about right?

Also for DI when you get knocked vertically you want to DI left or right correct? Since it's best to aim for the corners since they are furthest from the blast zone?

Use Bair, then attempt to fast fall it for vertical knockback. Use airdodge/Uair for vertical with no fast fall, then 2nd jump for horizontal knockback.

You get best results for DI by holding the control stick perpendicular to your knockback angle. For example, Snake's Utilt hits people upwards and slightly behind him instead of straight up. Therefore, you live longer against his Utilt if you hold the control stick stick behind snake.

The red line represents Utilt's knockback angle. The blue lines are perpendicular to the redline. If you hold the control stick in either of those directions the blue lines point towards you will get a knockback angle that look like the orange lines. If you hold the control stick anywhere between the blue and red line, you'll get a knockback angle somewhere between the orange and red line.

 

[Attila_]

Can we fastfall on the 1st frame the hitbox is out... Or the 1st frame of startup?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I was doing some frame testing for DI survival against falco usmash and I started having characters fast fall on frame 2 or 3. So yeah, you fast fall as soon as the aerial comes out. That's the reason why the aerial for fast falling doesn't really matter. It's only for the sake of acting quickly afterwards that we say the fastest aerial for some people. With snake Bair sort of has that hurtbox alignment reasoning.

 

[-Ran]

First frame of start up. Activating a fast fall is a 'free action.'

 

[PEACE7]

How should I play the pit mu I completely suck at it I tried camping him but his arrows ***** me they come out too fast.