Official Snake Q&A Area

[Kuro~]

How should I play the pit mu I completely suck at it I tried camping him but his arrows ***** me they come out too fast.

Varying your approaches. One thing i do that works is simply get out a nade grab it and run in. That gets u access. From then on it's a matter of pressuring with tilts and grabs for as long as possible. You also need to learn how to land grenades in between pits arrow usage without getting hit. It's quite hard vs a competent pit but nonetheless will force a response other than arrow.

 

[Crackle]

How should I play the pit mu I completely suck at it I tried camping him but his arrows ***** me they come out too fast.

You can start getting good at it by getting used to dodging arrows and simply going in for the Ftilt range. Once in the ftilt range your presence is threat enough alone to force him to do a defensive reaction (usually dash attack, fsmash, roll or dash grab).

When you get used to paying attention to individual Pit habits when arrowing and moving about, you can learn where you want your C4's (cut down their camping-viable spots), when to pull nades, when to throw nades (pulling and throwing with no pause to shield between is risky usually), and what to do when you do get past all the arrowing.

Ultimately a cooked, normal lob to their side before they get on stage...or a C4 placed on the opposite side of the stage...can really cut down their camping payoffs. Close range is your friend against Pit. But you still have to actually outplay pit when you do fight close range. If they're very aerial don't underestimate your Bair and uptilt.


Things to keep in mind
1) Timing of Arrows (usually determined by purpose, like they react to your nade pin pull or your shield drop)
2) Defensive reaction when you get in ftilt range, and how to beat it with at least 20% damage punishment
3) How to ruin their favorite spots

This is the case also for many matchups that tend to semi-outcamp Snake. A well cooked, lobbed grenade or a well place C4 can really ruin their day.

In response to Kuro:
Running in with a nade and blowing yourself up should work once or twice...but there are a lot of adaptive reactions to that which will punish you back more than you expect.

 

[Attila_]

Funny.

In a mu that completely revolves around his ledge game, you didn't mention it once.

It's fairly important.

And when he's there, we need to outcamp him. Approaching shouldn't work because he won't spend time onstage unless he's going for the kill.

Have you played a decent pit before?

 

[Kuro~]

You can start getting good at it by getting used to dodging arrows and simply going in for the Ftilt range. Once in the ftilt range your presence is threat enough alone to force him to do a defensive reaction (usually dash attack, fsmash, roll or dash grab).

When you get used to paying attention to individual Pit habits when arrowing and moving about, you can learn where you want your C4's (cut down their camping-viable spots), when to pull nades, when to throw nades (pulling and throwing with no pause to shield between is risky usually), and what to do when you do get past all the arrowing.

Ultimately a cooked, normal lob to their side before they get on stage...or a C4 placed on the opposite side of the stage...can really cut down their camping payoffs. Close range is your friend against Pit. But you still have to actually outplay pit when you do fight close range. If they're very aerial don't underestimate your Bair and uptilt.


Things to keep in mind
1) Timing of Arrows (usually determined by purpose, like they react to your nade pin pull or your shield drop)
2) Defensive reaction when you get in ftilt range, and how to beat it with at least 20% damage punishment
3) How to ruin their favorite spots

This is the case also for many matchups that tend to semi-outcamp Snake. A well cooked, lobbed grenade or a well place C4 can really ruin their day.

In response to Kuro:
Running in with a nade and blowing yourself up should work once or twice...but there are a lot of adaptive reactions to that which will punish you back more than you expect.

Your talking to a pit/snake main...who's played the mu and knows both characters. If you do it right and mix it in with other camping strategies and approaches like dash attack(not dacus...dash attack) and dash grab and dash attack that picks up a nade. you'll be fine.


Cooked grenades get shot. More often than not when lobbed. Use em as an item. The hard straight throw is good in this mu. C4 placement can help for sure. But it's not an end all strategy to their viable camping positions. With 4 jumps+glide+up-b+awesome ledge options and heaven forbid platforms...he can still out camp you. Easily. This is why you don't want to challenge a good pit at that. And simply want to inch forward by using the above mix-ups as well as whatever u see fit. Pits like to stand up-->utilt so if u notice a pattern of that. Just be ready. It's frame 2

Pit's really shouldn't have a camping pattern. It's more reactive than anything cuz it's so easy to do it that way based on ur reaction and positioning. Pits can have CQC patterns.

Beware of getting put in the air. Pit is as bad as mk vs snake in the air except without a shuttle loop and just a really strong bair.

WoI auto footstools you so if u have to c4 recover...you're best off tricking them and DI AWAY FROM THE STAGE. This alone won't prevent it vs a competent pit. It's literally doable on reaction and the radius of effect is HUGE.

Inf. jab clanks with ftilt. So don't get caught offguard.Pit's Jab has amazing range and does nice damage.Pulling nades doesn't stop the chaingrab so just don't bother. Beware of upsmash+dtilt. Don't airdodge into fsmash. You're better off going for b-reverse or footstool. Airdodge is never the best option vs pit as it opens his kill options. While the other 2 make it much harder to land that bair or fsmash.

Make sure to punish pits who are predictable on the ledge. Just don't get baited. Or it's easily a stock. And i mean EASILY.

 

[Crackle]

@ Kuro: Good tips, I just don't prefer the approach with grenade in hand myself. Ally has shown it to be pretty useful against some campy characters, though.

@ schmot: Please explain the ledge game you refer to. I don't know any Pits that use it well myself, but can see where you're coming from.

@PEACE: I hope all this advice isn't getting too hectic to read from the three of us so far.

 

[Kuro~]

Pit's ledgegame in a quick easy nutshell:Multi jumps+top3 shield poker in the game(up air), mixups in fair, bair, AD-->uptilt, nair onto stage(auto cancels), and arrows. Can easily switch ledges.

 

[PEACE7]

I ****ing love you guys lol so many great tips I'll deff try everything in here out. You guys covered pretty much everything I was having trouble with thanks a LOT

 

[Kuro~]

np. I love helping as long as i'm pretty confident in the subject matter.

 

[Crackle]

Those options you mentioned from the ledge are pretty much worthless against reaction with decent spacing...I don't think they're what make Pit hard for Snake.
Were there things schmot had in mind?

Glad to help ya peace!

 

[Attila_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kEW3NpYQ64#t=02m50s

pit is pretty safe on the ledge. it forces you to camp him from the other side of the stage. which is still hella annoying.

I was doing some frame testing for DI survival against falco usmash and I started having characters fast fall on frame 2 or 3. So yeah, you fast fall as soon as the aerial comes out. That's the reason why the aerial for fast falling doesn't really matter. It's only for the sake of acting quickly afterwards that we say the fastest aerial for some people. With snake Bair sort of has that hurtbox alignment reasoning.

First frame of start up. Activating a fast fall is a 'free action.'

so... which one is it?

it kinda makes a difference...

 

[Crackle]

If you're Attila that was some good **** gameplay. Pit definitely didn't benefit off being on the ledge. Grenades, dtilts, and upairs fixed that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

We both said the same thing lol

 

[Kuro~]

Those options you mentioned from the ledge are pretty much worthless against reaction with decent spacing...I don't think they're what make Pit hard for Snake.
Were there things schmot had in mind?

Glad to help ya peace!

Uh no. Go play a good pit. Those things are no where near easy to stop or retaliate against. And if u think reaction and decent spacing will stop it ur just ignorant about how good his ledge game is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kEW3NpYQ64#t=02m50s

pit is pretty safe on the ledge. it forces you to camp him from the other side of the stage. which is still hella annoying.





so... which one is it?

it kinda makes a difference...

That pit was doing soooooo many things wrong.

If you're Attila that was some good **** gameplay. Pit definitely didn't benefit off being on the ledge. Grenades, dtilts, and upairs fixed that.

Ya i liked his use of crouch, upair, and dash attack.

The pit didn't benefit from being on the ledge cuz he was terrible at that and a few other aspects.

 

[Crackle]

Oh that was a BAD pit? In that case I am not intrigued to hear what a GOOD pit can do to us :]. So schmot we really have to camp across the stage just because he's on the ledge?!

 

[Attila_]

Jei and I haven't had a recorded set in some time.

He's good at ledge work, but I outcamp him and force him onstage. At which case I no longer outcamp him and approach. And then he runs to the ledge. Repeat repeat.

Jei also gets frustrated easy and approaches, which makes life way easier for me.

Also kuro, did you only watch the first match?

 

[Kuro~]

Jei and I haven't had a recorded set in some time.

He's good at ledge work, but I outcamp him and force him onstage. At which case I no longer outcamp him and approach. And then he runs to the ledge. Repeat repeat.

Jei also gets frustrated easy and approaches, which makes life way easier for me.

Also kuro, did you only watch the first match?

I watched where you dictated the time to take me. 2:50 and on.

Snake can't outcamp a pit on the ledge. You just have to make a read. Or set up JUST right to where you force him to move. Which is why i said becareful cuz if u get baited into it it's a free bair chain or more =/

 

[Attila_]

How does pit outcamp snake in that situation?

As snake, I throw grenades at him, given that he needs to poke above the stage in order to hit me.

The nade hits him, bounces up, and hangs around him until it blows up. Big problems for him.

I think.

 

[Kuro~]

Nah. Pit can easily A)interrupt you B) shoot the nade C) weave around the nade D) get the nade away from him E) keep it from reaching him or F) just abuse invinci frames.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah, pit has to regrab the ledge after firing an arrow. The soonest most characters get off the ledge is around frame 20. Then there is the time spent for pit to jump above the ledge and firing an arrow. So the fastest he can fire arrows is like ever half second. Slower firing rate with hardly any time to charge, but it is still difficult to time nades to hit him there.

If you fling nades, you have to be very precise about your timing, but with tossed nades the extra bounces before going over the ledge makes your timing more lenient. But then some stages won't allow that to happens because nades get caught on platforms :/ I'd say that pit's position on the ledge is still pretty good even if he cannot outcamp Snake.

 

[Kuro~]

Pit doesn't want to be on the ledge THAT much anyways. He only does when the snake thinks he can challenge pit while he's on it. Or when he wants someone off his jock. Pit is BETTER onstage vs snake and many characters cuz it allows him to camp easier. And get snake in the air much easier.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I prefer pit onstage. Easier to hit him if you get close enough. Arrows at close range aren't safe, and thus risky if used. Therefore, pit is extremely likely to break off arrow usage at close range allowing Snake access for a chance at a boxing match. If pit does continue camping at close range, he might get hit since there is a decent amount of lag between arrow shots.

But the boxing match is entirely dependent upon the players. Neither pit nor snake really out does the other. Only snake does more damage with jab -> ftilt or grab -> dthrow tech chasing.

 

[Kuro~]

Your not gettiiiiiing it. He can just go to the ledge once u get in close. Then once u run away to try to "outcamp" one of the best campers in the game he just gets on and resumes to use BETTER camping tactics. Which is why u need a read or to commit to something to truly make any progress.

The reason this is even is cuz both characters risk vs reward in most scenarios is very moderate.

 

[Crackle]

Why can't you walk backwards and drop a nade near the ledge and walk away? Why can't you plant a C4 on the ledge and walk away? Why would you run ACROSS the stage just to fight him because he's on the ledge? Pit has options from the ledge but they're not fast at all.

 

[Attila_]

Your not gettiiiiiing it. He can just go to the ledge once u get in close. Then once u run away to try to "outcamp" one of the best campers in the game he just gets on and resumes to use BETTER camping tactics. Which is why u need a read or to commit to something to truly make any progress.

The reason this is even is cuz both characters risk vs reward in most scenarios is very moderate.

agree with this a lot.

the game should be snake forcing pit to the ledge, then outcamping pit until he gets back on stage.

i do also feel that snake can control the stage a little better though, making it harder for pit to get onstage and start camping from there.

not to mention the fact that pit has to kill with an approach; snake does not, but wouldn't mind if he did.

it's probably even i think, although it's a very tedious battle for both sides. just secondary ice climbers and force him off that ledge real easy.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Why can't you walk backwards and drop a nade near the ledge and walk away? Why can't you plant a C4 on the ledge and walk away? Why would you run ACROSS the stage just to fight him because he's on the ledge? Pit has options from the ledge but they're not fast at all.

*sigh* you DON'T get it. Grenades will never work like that. C4 is only momentary pressure on 70% of neutrals this doesn't help that much anyways. Dash attack and bair reach below the lip but both require a large commitment or a read into a bad pattern the pit showed. Which is why even getting him off the ledge for a bit of reward is high risk high reward cuz if u whiff your probably dead...

agree with this a lot.

the game should be snake forcing pit to the ledge, then outcamping pit until he gets back on stage.

i do also feel that snake can control the stage a little better though, making it harder for pit to get onstage and start camping from there.

not to mention the fact that pit has to kill with an approach; snake does not, but wouldn't mind if he did.

it's probably even i think, although it's a very tedious battle for both sides. just secondary ice climbers and force him off that ledge real easy.

Snakes job is definitely to inch forward while constricting pits movement. If pit didn't get so much reward for getting snake offstage/in the air it would probably be in snakes favor slightly. And the fact that pits multi jumps with his FH Dair and AD uptilt and sh nair mixups all of which get him in the air as well. Also if your powershielding arrows the pit is doing it wrong. Arrows are the second biggest factor making it even besides the juggle game. It's either complete **** or very slow. Both characters can ****ing destroy the other. But pit has a much easier time returning situations to neutral than snake in this mu. Which is another factor making it even.


Kuro on mink's account.

 

[Attila_]

But pit has a much easier time returning situations to neutral than snake in this mu.

funny how almost every snake matchup contains this point.

 

[n0ne]

Hi everyone, i know that this is absolutely wrong place to ask but,

I remember a few years back when brawl came out i used to see on youtube some vids called something like "snake advanced techniques " 1 2 and 3 respectively, but 3 was actually like a tribute to MGS,
Also at the start was a codec call python saying "Im the antisnake and im the one man who can break u, lets go!" (Python´s Voice)
I remember a part where a Dark Link (the anti-snake in this case) would final smash a Fox, then Snake would yell Foooooooox! then he would do a major montage combo as revenge. And last at the end there was a Double Snake KO between two snakes with tags, not sure who they were.

Has anyone seen this vid, ive googled and youtubed for months now and i havent been able to find it again!? thx.

 

[False]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIdIQ8KLlcI

does this crack anyone else up?

 

[Attila_]

i lolled pretty hard.

was i also that bad once too?

i watched up to the one minute mark, and he pulled out a single grenade.

and he just threw it off the ledge...

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I loved all of those f-smashes lol.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol It got better attila.
Dthrow tech chasing, mine/c4 placement after death. FH Nair and OoS Dair. Dash attack punishment on landing (not sure if done with that sole fact in mind though).

I have to watch more of these lol Snake's game play hasn't changed all that much other than adding more grenades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHtc80Q5hIA&feature=related
Mortar slide. Attempted camping wtf

 

[Ralph Cecil]

If you dash attack on shield can you go finish it into a dacus to be safe?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It can be. Canceling into usmash has a relatively large window and can be useful for catching people trying to punish immediately OoS thus getting hit by the usmash. The issue is that usmash animation is so long that people can simply drop shield and run over to snake to punish him. Although, the mortar you send out can save you in a way depending upon what they do.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

So since boost grabbing is a similar input can you do the same with it?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So since boost grabbing is a similar input can you do the same with it?

Nope. You can only cancel the dash attack with a grab/pivot grab in roughly the first couple of frames of the dash attack which is before the hitbox comes out. After that small time frame, you cannot cancel with grabs period.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Snap >_< Well ok thanks. ^_^

 

[Prawn]

sup snakes, remember that time meep beat ally cause ice climbers **** snake?

well were discussing the matchup so come talk about how you lose to us: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13278385#post13278385

 

[- rko -]

Sup guys, I was just fooling around with Snake a bit and he seems like a fun and serious secondary to pick up. My question is what/when to used dsmash, because I dont know how to implement it in my gameplay.

 

[Attila_]

If you dash attack on shield can you go finish it into a dacus to be safe?

Mk can Nair oos in between.

True facts.

 

[False]

Sup guys, I was just fooling around with Snake a bit and he seems like a fun and serious secondary to pick up. My question is what/when to used dsmash, because I dont know how to implement it in my gameplay.

1. once you take a stock
2. once you have them flying off stage
3. sexgasm