Ussi
Smash Legend
Err.. what makes Ganon harder than Ike here? Ike has a spike, better recovery, better platform game... and a sword.
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Official Pikachu Stage Discussion - Rainbow Cruise
- Thread starter Jupz
- Start date
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
i remember, back when i played k primes ganon, i never beat him here. ever. ganon can just control the stage SO WELL
Ussi
Smash Legend
meh, i'll question the ganons.
gallax
Smash Hero
i watched a vid of ganon owning a snake here. ganons uair is god.
J4pu
Smash Champion
Geekhead
Smash Apprentice
yes... just yes...
Ussi
Smash Legend
well I'll phrase this in 3 parts:
stage 1: Small, cramped, and platforms. This is the smallest stage as in smallest amount of area to be on. Its like battlefield except you can thunder in the middle
So i'd say pretty decent, except that slant gets in the way :\ so 5/10 for this part.
Stage 2: statues prevent projectile spam, except Olimar's pikmin and ROB's laser go through it sadly. The platforms aren't really in the way. Do not use fair or dsmash on the statue or you will be left open for punishment for like 3 seconds. You can CG people to death since its a walk off. Also you can do a bthrow kill since bthrow is so sexy Lastly, this stage has lots of space. That's nice 6/10
Stage 3: Its a tilting FD :0 that's about it. CG sometimes gets messed up. Tilting can mess up others in camping while you are completely fine with it. thats a + 9/10
stage 1: Small, cramped, and platforms. This is the smallest stage as in smallest amount of area to be on. Its like battlefield except you can thunder in the middle
So i'd say pretty decent, except that slant gets in the way :\ so 5/10 for this part.Stage 2: statues prevent projectile spam, except Olimar's pikmin and ROB's laser go through it sadly. The platforms aren't really in the way. Do not use fair or dsmash on the statue or you will be left open for punishment for like 3 seconds. You can CG people to death since its a walk off. Also you can do a bthrow kill since bthrow is so sexy
Lastly, this stage has lots of space. That's nice 6/10Stage 3: Its a tilting FD :0 that's about it. CG sometimes gets messed up. Tilting can mess up others in camping while you are completely fine with it. thats a + 9/10
If your at high percentages, camp out between the two statues on the 2nd transformation to force your opponent to stale out their kill moves.
Just wondering, does anyone actually implement extending their hitboxes by attacking destructable terrain? It can throw off spot dodges and beat out airdodges.
I find this stage really good against campers. Characters like TL, Snake, Link, Falco, Fox, Wolf, etc. will have a hard time outcamping you on this stage. The first transformation is too small to camp, the 2nd transformations has statues which absorb most projectiles, and the third transformation tilts, which throws off linear projectiles.
Just wondering, does anyone actually implement extending their hitboxes by attacking destructable terrain? It can throw off spot dodges and beat out airdodges.
I find this stage really good against campers. Characters like TL, Snake, Link, Falco, Fox, Wolf, etc. will have a hard time outcamping you on this stage. The first transformation is too small to camp, the 2nd transformations has statues which absorb most projectiles, and the third transformation tilts, which throws off linear projectiles.
Ussi
Smash Legend
As Ike I fsmash statues. It wins lol.
This stage is good for those with better projectiles.
This stage is good for those with better projectiles.
gallax
Smash Hero
dont forget that the statues extend the timing of your smashes and can even refresh your moveset.
Ussi
Smash Legend
galax K_2 had asked if anyone did that xD, I said I did with Ike. So we technically mentioned it already. But guess people who didn't know the property of attacking things to extend hitboxes wouldn't be able to see that.
I've noticed I've posted first in every stage discussion for like the past 3 stages o_o
I've noticed I've posted first in every stage discussion for like the past 3 stages o_o
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I have mixed feelings about this stage. I hardly ever play on it, mostly because of the first transformation, but I'll try to contribute what I can even though it's pretty much been said already.
First stage:
Too small for my tastes. I really can't think of anything positive here other than, as Ussi said, thunder going through the middle of the platforms. I guess the small size is also helpful against other campers. I actually kind of like the slant in the middle too, because standing to the left of it lets you duck under certain projectiles if they aren't aimed to account for the slanting.
I don't know if it's just me, but the ledges on this transformation screw me over sometimes. Maybe it's because the walls on either side are flat (a la Yoshi's Island), but some weird recovery shenanigans tend to happen to me here.....
Transforming stage:
This part is very brief, but there's a walk-off on either side. Try to CG > death if you can, and beware this part against DDD and other characters who have CGs themselves.
Second stage:
Everyone's gone over the statues. Jab to refresh your moves..... but I usually stop before they break because they're an effective pseudo-barrier against certain projectiles and attacks. I don't use them to extent my moves as much as I use similar objects on other stages..... Castle Siege is large enough that you'll rarely hit someone with a laggy fsmash. It's more likely that you'll just leave yourself open for punishment.
I think I've been saved before by hitting the statues.... they slowed my momentum enough that I didn't die. Not 100% sure about this, but I believe it's one of the reasons I usually position myself between the statues on the bottom (best place to be on this stage imo).
Walk-offs = CG/bthrow kills.
I love the platforms here. They're far enough apart and high enough that utilts/usmashes from other characters can't **** you through them (which is usually the case with platforms), and Pika is quick enough to use them for creative approaches.
Third stage:
I didn't even realize it tilted. So, uh, I obviously don't have much to say about this part. It's like a smaller version of FD to me.
Characters:
I don't know which characters I would take here, but I'd avoid DDD because of all the walk-off opportunities. We can CG him, but his grab range is so crazy that I wouldn't risk it..... even if you do survive, his bair can make it tough to get back to safety. Personal preference though.
Rating: Overall I'd give it a 6/10. I don't have much experience on this stage, so if this rating seems a little low, that could be why. I just think there are much better stages for Pika, and despite some of the pros (i.e., the walk-offs), this place is generally pretty neutralish.
First stage:
Too small for my tastes. I really can't think of anything positive here other than, as Ussi said, thunder going through the middle of the platforms. I guess the small size is also helpful against other campers. I actually kind of like the slant in the middle too, because standing to the left of it lets you duck under certain projectiles if they aren't aimed to account for the slanting.
I don't know if it's just me, but the ledges on this transformation screw me over sometimes. Maybe it's because the walls on either side are flat (a la Yoshi's Island), but some weird recovery shenanigans tend to happen to me here.....
Transforming stage:
This part is very brief, but there's a walk-off on either side. Try to CG > death if you can, and beware this part against DDD and other characters who have CGs themselves.
Second stage:
Everyone's gone over the statues. Jab to refresh your moves..... but I usually stop before they break because they're an effective pseudo-barrier against certain projectiles and attacks. I don't use them to extent my moves as much as I use similar objects on other stages..... Castle Siege is large enough that you'll rarely hit someone with a laggy fsmash. It's more likely that you'll just leave yourself open for punishment.
I think I've been saved before by hitting the statues.... they slowed my momentum enough that I didn't die. Not 100% sure about this, but I believe it's one of the reasons I usually position myself between the statues on the bottom (best place to be on this stage imo).
Walk-offs = CG/bthrow kills.
I love the platforms here. They're far enough apart and high enough that utilts/usmashes from other characters can't **** you through them (which is usually the case with platforms), and Pika is quick enough to use them for creative approaches.
Third stage:
I didn't even realize it tilted. So, uh, I obviously don't have much to say about this part.
It's like a smaller version of FD to me.Characters:
I don't know which characters I would take here, but I'd avoid DDD because of all the walk-off opportunities. We can CG him, but his grab range is so crazy that I wouldn't risk it..... even if you do survive, his bair can make it tough to get back to safety. Personal preference though.
Rating: Overall I'd give it a 6/10. I don't have much experience on this stage, so if this rating seems a little low, that could be why. I just think there are much better stages for Pika, and despite some of the pros (i.e., the walk-offs), this place is generally pretty neutralish.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Pros
Transformation 1:
Little lip on both sides people can get caught on
Ramp going upwards can help CG characters that aren't supposed to be CGd
Platforms are great height for comboing
Transformation 2:
CG deaths
Big area makes pikachu survive longer
If you are near the edge, Pika's B-throw will move you closer to blast zone, allowing for easy kills
Statues can replenish moves
If time is low, you can camp because of the size
Transformation 3:
Flat enough to CG (for the most part)
Easy gimps because of odd shape of the underside
Little ramps + duck = hard to get hit
FF fair -> Whatever comboes still work
Transformation time:
can start CGs
Flat and log so you can run away and T-jolt if you want to camp
If ahead by a stock, can grab and force down with you (going to 1st or 3rd transformation
Cons
Transformation 1:
Small so ppl with better close-range combat will own pika
Platforms + some characters U-smash/u-tilt = annoying
Ramp going down ***** Pika's CG, and makes it annoying to combo
Transformation 2:
Heavy characters will never die besides CG/throw gimps
People who outcamp pikachu will outcamp you harder than normal
People with strong grabs at low %s can kill pika
Statues can make strong moves last longer (DK smashes, ZSS ->B, Snakes F-smash)
Statues can make pikachu's quicker attacks last longer than normal, and can get you punished because of it.
Transformation 3:
Pikachu can get gimped under level if not extremely careful
Tilting can effect QAC (Like lylat tipping or YI middle)
Weird angles can mess up your attacks
Transformation time:
Can save people who got gimped
Can interfere with comboes
Overall
Since Pika can CG most of the cast, this is a reliable CP against almost all characters. The large part in the 2nd transformation can make pika live as long as heavies normally do, and yet you can still kill with your CG, B-throw, and horizontal sending attacks. The transformations hinder pikachu less than most characters.
Rating: 7-10, Reliable CP
Transformation 1:
Little lip on both sides people can get caught on
Ramp going upwards can help CG characters that aren't supposed to be CGd
Platforms are great height for comboing
Transformation 2:
CG deaths
Big area makes pikachu survive longer
If you are near the edge, Pika's B-throw will move you closer to blast zone, allowing for easy kills
Statues can replenish moves
If time is low, you can camp because of the size
Transformation 3:
Flat enough to CG (for the most part)
Easy gimps because of odd shape of the underside
Little ramps + duck = hard to get hit
FF fair -> Whatever comboes still work
Transformation time:
can start CGs
Flat and log so you can run away and T-jolt if you want to camp
If ahead by a stock, can grab and force down with you (going to 1st or 3rd transformation
Cons
Transformation 1:
Small so ppl with better close-range combat will own pika
Platforms + some characters U-smash/u-tilt = annoying
Ramp going down ***** Pika's CG, and makes it annoying to combo
Transformation 2:
Heavy characters will never die besides CG/throw gimps
People who outcamp pikachu will outcamp you harder than normal
People with strong grabs at low %s can kill pika
Statues can make strong moves last longer (DK smashes, ZSS ->B, Snakes F-smash)
Statues can make pikachu's quicker attacks last longer than normal, and can get you punished because of it.
Transformation 3:
Pikachu can get gimped under level if not extremely careful
Tilting can effect QAC (Like lylat tipping or YI middle)
Weird angles can mess up your attacks
Transformation time:
Can save people who got gimped
Can interfere with comboes
Overall
Since Pika can CG most of the cast, this is a reliable CP against almost all characters. The large part in the 2nd transformation can make pika live as long as heavies normally do, and yet you can still kill with your CG, B-throw, and horizontal sending attacks. The transformations hinder pikachu less than most characters.
Rating: 7-10, Reliable CP
I like this stage with Pikachu. I have recently decided that I need to get good on every starter stage with either Pikachu or Metaknight, and I'm still focusing on Pikachu for now.
I generally camp the left side of the first transformation, and pretend that my ledge games don't exist, because I'm likely to suicide if I try them.
On the second transformation, I use a few more up airs than usual, and basically focus on claiming the right side of the stage. I jab the statues to keep my moves fresh, and look for medium% kills with the narrow blast zones. Bthrow, CG, Fsmash, work well over there if you can get them off.
On the third transformation, I play edge games against really aggressive players, and play really aggressive against everyone else.
I generally camp the left side of the first transformation, and pretend that my ledge games don't exist, because I'm likely to suicide if I try them.
On the second transformation, I use a few more up airs than usual, and basically focus on claiming the right side of the stage. I jab the statues to keep my moves fresh, and look for medium% kills with the narrow blast zones. Bthrow, CG, Fsmash, work well over there if you can get them off.
On the third transformation, I play edge games against really aggressive players, and play really aggressive against everyone else.
Veng
Smash Ace
Bthrow a low % kill on the roll off part, since Pikas Bthrow has **** horizontal DI.
use the lava part to your advantage, you have all that space you can get some tjolts and good qac stuff going.
Edge game is my fav on this stage, especially because people get easily gimped on the first transformation, but luckily pikachu has a good recovery.
use the lava part to your advantage, you have all that space you can get some tjolts and good qac stuff going.
Edge game is my fav on this stage, especially because people get easily gimped on the first transformation, but luckily pikachu has a good recovery.
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Mistake in JJ cons section
Also, what is the rating for JJ, i just see "/10"
Those 2 i think are supposed to be in the pros section.K_2 said:
Also, what is the rating for JJ, i just see "/10"
Veng
Smash Ace
Oo, cant wait for Norfair discussion.
Thunder doesn't reach all the way from the top to the bottom on JJ....
Thunder doesn't reach all the way from the top to the bottom on JJ....
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Veng, you know there is a thread where we discussed it, so you can read the points there right?
Veng
Smash Ace
wait discussed Norfair? or JJ?
I was just saying... the roof on JJ is way to high for it to reach both ends..
I was just saying... the roof on JJ is way to high for it to reach both ends..
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
We did Norfair already.
Also, Thunder doesn't reach all the way to the tippy top of JJ when it's zoomed out, but it's close enough...... no character's gonna be that high up anyway unless you're going for a vertical usmash/utilt > thunder KO, which probably won't be happening on Japes anyway.
Also, Thunder doesn't reach all the way to the tippy top of JJ when it's zoomed out, but it's close enough...... no character's gonna be that high up anyway unless you're going for a vertical usmash/utilt > thunder KO, which probably won't be happening on Japes anyway.
Veng
Smash Ace
Thats why they CP JJ on pika A) its a falco or B) they dont like thunder...
and awwwwww I <3 norfair, plankachu!
and awwwwww I <3 norfair, plankachu!
Hey everyone. I'm really sorry I haven't done the stage discussions recently. I've been busy with schoolwork and I haven't had time to play brawl or get on smashboards. Spring break as finally rolled around, so I'll be able to get back into the groove of things.
Ussi
Smash Legend
This stage is fun But I always come here as Ike lol. So I don't know much what Pika does here. Uair **** I guess?
But I always come here as Ike lol. So I don't know much what Pika does here. Uair **** I guess?
Nicholas1024
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,075
I don't play this stage, but I'm guessing that this would be an excellent snake CP?
Ussi
Smash Legend
oh oh, this stage counters Diddy ;D
gallax
Smash Hero
most definately do not play gaw or MK here. play snake here most definately. he suck at this stage and his movements are more predictable.
if you ever get an opponent above you on this stage then its almost a guaranteed kill vs them with a thunder if you cloud them(lol. CLOUD THEM!!!!!!!)
overall, as a pika stage, its alright. this is a qac haven.
if you ever get an opponent above you on this stage then its almost a guaranteed kill vs them with a thunder if you cloud them(lol. CLOUD THEM!!!!!!!)
overall, as a pika stage, its alright. this is a qac haven.
gallax
Smash Hero
i understand K9. i finally got some time to meself too. i just got one thing to say...hurry up with these matcuhps!!!!!!!!!!! lol. im jk. you're doing fine.
Zylar
Smash Ace
I like to Dsmash on the carpets. If they DI away, they usually DI low away from the carpet, and it eventually disappears, so I've gotten a couple of surprise kills that way.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Usually I like janky stages, but I.... do not like RC. At all, actually. I think it's supposed to be a pretty good Pika stage, but being stupid-killed off the sides or top while the stage is moving is not my idea of fun. ><
Also, I hate that da*n carpet. I didn't know you could fall through it, so the first time I did by accident.... the thing disappeared on me before I could QA back to safety.....!!!
Pros:
- Pika's speed and maneuverability with QAC are really good here. Despite the stage moving being an annoyance, Pika doesn't have a hard time keeping up with all the disappearing platforms/dropping blocks/etc.
- High platforms. If someone's above you, you can catch them with a surprise thunder. Not only that, but a) it can't be reflected on you, and b) they'll be too high to punish if it misses.
- The spacing of RC's platforms in general is beneficial to Pika. If they're above you, you can harass them with uair/thunder.... if they're below you, they usually can't utilt/usmash you like they could on most stages.
- At the top of the screen, the blastlines are REALLY close, especially on top. Usmash/utilt/thunder ****, and fsmash/nair kill earlier than usual. Even a surprise ftilt or bthrow can take a stock off if they're at a high enough percentage.
- Multiple places to dtilt lock. On the ship itself, you can lock them against the wall on the right side, and at the top, there are more than a few. The locks might not last for long since the stage is moving (and the walls at the top are pretty low), but it's still nice if you can pull it off.
- Characters with bad recoveries can be gimped in various ways here, usually sometime between the part where the ship lands and the part right after the carpet.
Cons:
- The carpet. It doesn't bother most people, but I hate that stupid thing. Sometimes it disappears at the worst moments, and there's nothing underneath that will save you.
- It's harder to tjolt camp here since there are so many different platforms and blocks that can fall away and break up otherwise flat surfaces.
- Close blastlines mean that Pika can sometimes die really early if you're not careful, especially if you catch a strong usmash or fsmash at the top.
- Lots of stage shenanigans. There are a lot of really stupid ways to die on this stage, even for Pikachu.
Characters to take/avoid here:
Take slow characters with bad recoveries. This is also a great CP for Diddy and Snake since they love their flat surfaces.... bananas & mortar slide don't do very well here, and grenades/C4s are easy to avoid. Ganon also seems to have trouble here as long as you don't mess up and get spiked.
Maaaybe take Sonic here? I've never played Sonic on RC, but it seems like he'd have trouble pulling off his spindash combos, and his running speed doesn't mean much on a stage with so many platforms. Plus his spring usage would be limited, especially at the top. Just a guess, though.
Don't take MK or G&W here. Also, a caution with Toon Link on this stage: if he dsmashes you and both hits connect, it can kill you at 0% if he's close to the blastline and facing away from it (similar to what happens on the edge of Corneria).
Rating:
I give it a 6.5/10. It's too janky even for me.... unexpected deaths (the carpet, getting stuck under blocks, dying at stupid low percentages) are never fun. I could possibly see a 7, though.
I think there's usually a better stage to go to, except maybe against Diddy...
Also, I hate that da*n carpet. I didn't know you could fall through it, so the first time I did by accident.... the thing disappeared on me before I could QA back to safety.....
!!!Pros:
- Pika's speed and maneuverability with QAC are really good here. Despite the stage moving being an annoyance, Pika doesn't have a hard time keeping up with all the disappearing platforms/dropping blocks/etc.
- High platforms. If someone's above you, you can catch them with a surprise thunder. Not only that, but a) it can't be reflected on you, and b) they'll be too high to punish if it misses.
- The spacing of RC's platforms in general is beneficial to Pika. If they're above you, you can harass them with uair/thunder.... if they're below you, they usually can't utilt/usmash you like they could on most stages.
- At the top of the screen, the blastlines are REALLY close, especially on top. Usmash/utilt/thunder ****, and fsmash/nair kill earlier than usual. Even a surprise ftilt or bthrow can take a stock off if they're at a high enough percentage.
- Multiple places to dtilt lock. On the ship itself, you can lock them against the wall on the right side, and at the top, there are more than a few. The locks might not last for long since the stage is moving (and the walls at the top are pretty low), but it's still nice if you can pull it off.
- Characters with bad recoveries can be gimped in various ways here, usually sometime between the part where the ship lands and the part right after the carpet.
Cons:
- The carpet. It doesn't bother most people, but I hate that stupid thing. Sometimes it disappears at the worst moments, and there's nothing underneath that will save you.
- It's harder to tjolt camp here since there are so many different platforms and blocks that can fall away and break up otherwise flat surfaces.
- Close blastlines mean that Pika can sometimes die really early if you're not careful, especially if you catch a strong usmash or fsmash at the top.
- Lots of stage shenanigans. There are a lot of really stupid ways to die on this stage, even for Pikachu.
Characters to take/avoid here:
Take slow characters with bad recoveries. This is also a great CP for Diddy and Snake since they love their flat surfaces.... bananas & mortar slide don't do very well here, and grenades/C4s are easy to avoid. Ganon also seems to have trouble here as long as you don't mess up and get spiked.
Maaaybe take Sonic here? I've never played Sonic on RC, but it seems like he'd have trouble pulling off his spindash combos, and his running speed doesn't mean much on a stage with so many platforms. Plus his spring usage would be limited, especially at the top. Just a guess, though.
Don't take MK or G&W here. Also, a caution with Toon Link on this stage: if he dsmashes you and both hits connect, it can kill you at 0% if he's close to the blastline and facing away from it (similar to what happens on the edge of Corneria).
Rating:
I give it a 6.5/10. It's too janky even for me.... unexpected deaths (the carpet, getting stuck under blocks, dying at stupid low percentages) are never fun. I could possibly see a 7, though.
I think there's usually a better stage to go to, except maybe against Diddy...
Ussi
Smash Legend
I'd say don't underestimate Ike/Ganon here. They have a strong aerial game that you don't want to mess with.
And Ike's aether is great here.
And Ike's aether is great here.
AranOcean
Smash Ace
Unless there isn't anything underneath him. But that could be said with everyone else's recoveries.
Going back to what Kaylo said about which characters to bring/avoid, this would be a pretty good CP for Captain Falcon since he can easily be gimped on Rainbow Cruise. But don't bring Kirby mostly because of the same reasons as MK imo.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I don't think Ike would do that badly on RC. I've see how yours handles it, and in terms of getting around, he's not deathly slow.
But every time I take a Ganon to RC, he ends up getting stage-gimped at least once. Every time, lol. Maybe I've just been playing the wrong Ganons, but with everything else we have against him, having to worry about his recovery seems like one more big disadvantage for him.
Ussi
Smash Legend
I just said don't underestimate them. Ganon's uair and dair just **** though if you aren't careful. RC is a heavily air based battle. So you don't have a shield.. But I guess since Ganon's recovery is horrid. I've even witness your pikachu against Clai's Ganon on RC. He ended up getting stage ***** xD
Course my Ike does fine on RC, I <3 RC
Course my Ike does fine on RC, I <3 RC
RZA_Immortal Technique
Smash Journeyman
Please do Raindbow Cruise!
Im curious of its advantages and disadvantages of pikachu.
Im curious of its advantages and disadvantages of pikachu.