Official Metaknight Discussion

[Overswarm]

what?

so you're saying you can't respond to the simple question that has seemed to slam you

but you want me to respond to the novel that's supposedly "slammed" me? when the main reason why i'm not responding to your novel is because you can't respond to a single question?

your logic is impeccable

You asked a question that can't be answered. There are only two answers possible from the question you gave without evading the question itself.

I've been a student of philosophy and debate for the past 10 years and the one thing that anyone who has spent any time in the field knows is you can't ask loaded questions. Rephrase it so it isn't a loaded question, and I'll answer... but I'm pretty sure you lost the right to ask questions when you decided that you wouldn't read a response unless it was in kid size pieces for you.



Hey, pro ban! Omni's given up again because I used too many words and pictures!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB_l4AdtJds



By the way Omni? It took my a grand total of 7 minutes to read my post, study the graphs, all while talking on AIM. This is hardly a time investment.

I hope you use this on your professors.

"Your homework for today is Chapter-"

"WHOA! Chapter?! Motha***** I don't READ unless it is SNIPPETS. Hurts my BRAIN man, next you gonna be asking me to write something that's more than a paragraph!"

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wait, what was the question again?

 

[Eddie G]

hey guy who are you oh that peach main that's right almost forgot

Sarcasm...?

we're all lazy to an extent. big whoop.

Agreed. I'm not the one vocally jumping into an argument with a well-prepared opponent though. You are. It's not just that you're lazy, but the circumstance of when your laziness comes into play is rather...questionable.

you know **** well OS has an ulterior motive. if you refuse to believe that then you're dumber than i thought.

Ok, I've met Evan in person more than once. He seems fine to me. He also openly admitted on the podcast that he purposely behaves a certain way on the boards, or did you forget? Case in point: it's no surprise that he likes to **** with people like you, so why are you wasting time trying to convince me of something I already know when you could be doing something more productive such as responding to Overswarm's post? Just a suggestion.

yeah, i can be cocky and silly and playful from time to time. if you take OS seriously all the time you will not stay sane. he's devious! believe it!

Read above.

however, i am not obligated to do anything. the fate of MK's shoulders does not rely on me responding to Overswarm's novel nor does it condemn MK for refusing to answer it.

Of course, you're entitled to whatever you choose. Just be prepared to not be taken seriously. Cause and effect.

if you cooked and i said, "yo, i'll eat all of your meals as long as you keep it to one serving" then suddenly you cooked a meal that was 5-6 servings don't get mad when i refuse to eat it.

That would have a possible effect on your health and well-being. Typing won't kill you. Bad analogy. No johns.

if you dont like me or what i have to say you're not forced to listen, dude. just like how im not forced to do something i don't want to spend more time than i want doing something.

Fair enough. Just remember, cause and effect.

 

[Overswarm]

Wait, what was the question again?

"Do you want MK banned for this reason I'm giving you, or this reason I'm giving you"

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well, for 1 i don't play brawl. I am a melee tournament player.

Second, it does matter. If MK was as overpowered as people like to claim, he would be completely unbeatable except by the very very best players. If the only players who could beat average MKs were the ~6 top non-MK manis, then i'd say this ban argument might hold some weight.

 

[Justblaze647]

but I'm pretty sure you lost the right to ask questions when you decided that you wouldn't read a response unless it was in kid size pieces for you.

You two argue like a married couple srsly

 

[RDK]

Well, for 1 i don't play brawl. I am a melee tournament player.

Second, it does matter. If MK was as overpowered as people like to claim, he would be completely unbeatable except by the very very best players. If the only players who could beat average MKs were the ~6 top non-MK manis, then i'd say this ban argument might hold some weight.

I'm assuming this is in response to my post.

First of all, are you saying MK isn't overpowered?

Secondly, I'm pretty sure nobody in pro-ban believes that MK is so overpowered as to be unbeatable. No character is unbeatable, for reasons I've already given. There is no such thing as a 100-0 matchup.

And yes @ Marko, ST Akuma is beatable. Just not in high-level play.

There is a difference.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

"Do you want MK banned for this reason I'm giving you, or this reason I'm giving you"

Exact words? If this is at all accurate, then you definitely have any right to cry foul.

 

[MarKO X]

Is there an Overswarm vs. Omni match on youtube somewhere?

I just wanna see the bad blood in that matchup.

 

[Justblaze647]

If MK was as overpowered as people like to claim, he would be completely unbeatable except by the very very best players

I believe OS's post has proven this to be the case.

 

[Omni]

the story of how Overswarm is unable to answer a simple question:

Overswarm, do you ban a character because they are dominant or because they are broken?

If it's because they are dominant, then your perspective dominance and what should and should not be allowed will be severely different from many people. Also, dominance does not necessarily equal ban worthy. Proving dominance only shows your dislike in it; not how it constitutes a ban. The numbers and data show what you perceive to be as dominance.

If it's because they are broken, you cannot prove that point by focusing on tournament results. As I said before, tournament results and data on MK only show how the best character in the game and most popular used character has successfully done what is expected.

Overswarm.

The first post was directed to someone else, but you took a single point from it to ask a question.

The second post was directed toward you but you haven't responded.

Can you address these? I'd like to hear your response on it.

Ask a question that isn't loaded and I will.

Omni, do you beat your girlfriend or kill your neighbor?

The first point isn't a question.

The second point isn't a hard question to answer. One or the other, both, or neither and why.

Stop making excuses and making things more difficult than they need to be.

OS, I don't see how this is loaded, other than that it already seems obvious that you are trying to ban MK because he is dominant... and we all know that is the wrong answer

It seems less like a "loaded question" and more like you already know the answer and how conflicting your viewpoint is, but you want to ignore that.

Well, go ahead and answer then. Do you beat your wife or kill your neighbor?

Hoohah, but you see, my wife is my neighbor!!!

/rim shot


Seriously though... your example of a loaded question is not in any way the same thing. He isn't presenting you with a loaded or trick question, he's merely making obvious the short coming of your stance here.

It is obvious that you want to ban MK because he is dominant. It is obvious that you believe that dominance = bannable. Your entire argument rests on that point and you have made it time and time again.

So wait, Overswarm wants MK banned for a reason other than being broken or dominant?

So, if he had only posed the question, but left out the pre-responses, then it wouldn't have been "loaded"?


The responses would have been the same, due to the flawed and conflicting nature of OS's argument on this subject.


If anything, I believe that OS's argument here is what is "loaded", because it routinely makes claims based on statements that are not supported. When this lack of support is made evident, the claims are continued despite being dis-proven.



Don't get me wrong, loaded questions are ridiculous... but I don't think that is the issue here. OS's example of "beating your wife or killing your neighbor" is a perfect loaded question... but I don't see how it parallels what Omni asked.

Would it have been less loaded if Omni only asked the question, wrote his answers to some TXT file, and copy-pasted the appropriate response afterward?

I don't get it, here. Pretty sure a loaded question limits your possible responses to a set of which neither is correct (that is, neither would be your actual reply), but from what I can tell Omni was just asking among the two most likely reasons for wanting MK banned and giving his views on them.

Of course, Overswarm could very easily answer "I don't want him banned for either of those reasons" if neither of them were why he wanted MK banned.

I count four.
1.) One..
2.) The other...
3.) Both...
4.) Neither...

I'm not limiting him nor loading the question. OS is just being a cheerleader again by comparing the killing of a neighbor with is a character broken.

Hm. Completely ignored.

New strategy: If you can't answer the question, ignore it! Oh, Overswarm.

Anyway, I'll stop addressing OS all together if he refuses to answer questions. If it was on the basis on that it was too long or too complicated, I'd be fine but... pretty sure my request was simple in nature.

did you all like my story?

 

[OverLade]

You gotta hand it to him. Overswarm *****. It's hard to deny...

 

[Overswarm]

Exact words? If this is at all accurate, then you definitely have any right to cry foul.

Replace "reason I'm giving you" with "because he is dominant" and "because he's broken" and yes.

I'm limited to choose between one of two options he's given me.

HEY OMNI? What's your favorite ice cream flavor, strawberry or superman?

That sure is a silly question -_-;;

 

[MarKO X]

And yes @ Marko, ST Akuma is beatable. Just not in high-level play.

There is a difference.

It honestly doesn't even have to be that high level of play with Akuma. Once you know how to use the air fireball, you're better than everyone. Period.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Overswarm, do you ban a character because they are dominant or because they are broken?

Hate to break it to ya, but yes, this is definitely a loaded question. The most simple solution would probably be "neither"; AFAIK this is also accurate?

 

[RDK]

It honestly doesn't even have to be that high level of play with Akuma. Once you know how to use the air fireball, you're better than everyone. Period.

That's not the debate. You said he was unbeatable. I'm saying he isn't.

Stop spreading falsities; the mindless hordes take it as truth and spew it out in the next thread. Then I'm stuck cleaning it up.

Since Omni is incapable of asking a non-loaded question:

Overswarm.

What, in a simple paragraph, is your criteria for banning characters?

 

[Turbo Ether]

It seems like we're fast approaching an epic climax.

 

[Omni]

ok i'll do some simple english:

"Overswarm, do you want to ban Metaknight because he is dominant or do you want to ban Metaknight becuase he is broken? One or the other? Both? Neither? How come?"

or is this still loaded

 

[Justblaze647]

Mods, please don't infract me for this, I know its unrelated, but nonetheless...

That is the scariest thing I've ever seen

 

[RDK]

Mods, please don't infract me for this, I know its unrelated, but nonetheless...

That is the scariest thing I've ever seen

The idea of a happy negro man scares you?

Go pound your Bible somewhere else Bubba.

 

[laki]

Omni, Overswarm won't answer the question because the choices are limited.

The question that he would answer would be "WHy do you ban a character"

 

[Palpi]

Its the stare.

Given someone choices to a question is just asking someone to beat around the bush.

 

[MarKO X]

That's not the debate. You said he was unbeatable. I'm saying he isn't.

Stop spreading falsities; the mindless hordes take it as truth and spew it out in the next thread. Then I'm stuck cleaning it up.

Well, if that is the case, then no one and nothing is unbeatable.

Thus, nothing should be banned?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm assuming this is in response to my post.

First of all, are you saying MK isn't overpowered?

Secondly, I'm pretty sure nobody in pro-ban believes that MK is so overpowered as to be unbeatable. No character is unbeatable, for reasons I've already given. There is no such thing as a 100-0 matchup.

And yes @ Marko, ST Akuma is beatable. Just not in high-level play.

There is a difference.

If he is beatable then what is the problem? Sounds like the whole brawl community is QQing over their character having "problems" with the best character in the game.

@OS: With Omni's question, if you don't like the two answers he proposed why don't you just come up with a third one? We all know its because of dominance. If someone cared enough they could just look back at some of your old posts and use that to answer the question for you with your own words.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

ok i'll do some simple english:

"Overswarm, do you want to ban Metaknight because he is dominant or do you want to ban Metaknight becuase he is broken? One or the other? Both? Neither? How come?"

or is this still loaded

The reason he isn't answering this question is because even though there are answer choices, none of them really offer what he knows to be true. It's like asking an opinion question on an English exam.

 

[Omni]

Omni, Overswarm won't answer the question because the choices are limited.

The question that he would answer would be "WHy do you ban a character"

ok i'll do some simple english:

"Overswarm, do you want to ban Metaknight because he is dominant or do you want to ban Metaknight becuase he is broken? One or the other? Both? Neither? How come?"

or is this still loaded

lmao, it's not limited. he has the choice of saying yes or no to either of the points. saying yes to both points. or saying no to both point! then if he wants, he can give a NEW point to explain why it's neither!

this is as open as a question will get. the reason why it's "loaded" is because he doesn't like the answers that i have waiting for him if he answers it a certain way cuz it conflicts with his ideals

i guess the funniest part is that i'm being called a 'sloth' or 'lazy' for not responding to a 10 page essay yet people are teetering on OS's nuts when he refuses to answer a very simple open ended question. herlayreeus

 

[Eddie G]

ok i'll do some simple english:

"Overswarm, do you want to ban Metaknight because he is dominant or do you want to ban Metaknight becuase he is broken? One or the other? Both? Neither? How come?"

or is this still loaded

Incredibly loaded.

YOU'RE GIVING HIM OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM WHILE ASKING FOR AN EXPLANATION. THAT'S A NO-NO.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

The idea of a happy negro man scares you?

Go pound your Bible somewhere else Bubba.

*facepalm*

Even though good posts come in every now and then it has still resulted in people's emotional flaws as players rather than the actual MK ban debate. All 'cause we cannot make ban criteria (reason why has already been explained).

Dispicable...

 

[MarKO X]

lol @ avoiding a question that's "loaded"

even though this is the same guy that has AT LEAST 20 WoTs in this thread.

 

[Justblaze647]

It seems like we're fast approaching an epic climax.

*waits and watches intently*

ok i'll do some simple english:

"Overswarm, do you want to ban Metaknight because he is dominant or do you want to ban Metaknight becuase he is broken? One or the other? Both? Neither? How come?"

or is this still loaded

Ok I think I understand the issue OS is having. Far be it from me to speak on his behalf, but imo, he won't answer your "loaded-question" because you will either counter argue that MK being dominant doesn't constitute whether he is ban worthy or that he isn't overly dominant.

And it's very clear than anti ban doesn't believe MK is broken so that voids out both of his supposed options.

The idea of a happy negro man scares you?

Go pound your Bible somewhere else Bubba.

Hmmm I really hope this is a joke, because I am African American. So obviously I was not racially motivated to dislike that image. Try again.

o_O

 

[Chuee]

I believe OS's post has proven this to be the case.

No, the very best mk's are only beatable by the very best players.
Get it right <.<

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

the pro-ban side hasn't come up with any single shard of proof for ban. When asked "why should a character be banned" they can't give a straight answer except "MK is dominating the scene". All the weight in this debate is on the pro-ban side to prove why MK is ban worthy. The reason there are very little anti-ban posts is simply because the only work they are required to do is sit around until the pro-banners can find a real argument (which i doubt will ever happen).

But yea, can someone PM me once OS comes up with a legit argument? I don't really have a stake in either side, but i'm curious as to how this pans out.

 

[Eddie G]

lol @ avoiding a question that's "loaded"

even though this is the same guy that has AT LEAST 20 WoTs in this thread.

Wrong definition of the word "loaded", genius.

He means "loaded" as in FIXED.

 

[Omni]

Incredibly loaded.

YOU'RE GIVING HIM OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM WHILE ASKING FOR AN EXPLANATION. THAT'S A NO-NO.

are you kidding me?

if i ask you do you like cheese or do you like fish? do you like them both? do you like neither? why or why not? is there any other food you like?

that's loaded? im sorry. i must have missed this part in english class.

WAT?

 

[RDK]

*facepalm*

Even though good posts come in every now and then it has still resulted in people's emotional flaws as players rather than the actual MK ban debate. All 'cause we cannot make ban criteria (reason why has already been explained).

Dispicable...

It was an off-topic joke.

You're all such salty children.

 

[Omni]

Ok I think I understand the issue OS is having. Far be it from me to speak on his behalf, but imo, he won't answer your "loaded-question" because you will either counter argue that MK being dominant doesn't constitute whether he is ban worthy or that he isn't overly dominant.

so the question wouldn't be loaded if i saved my response for later? i don't understand how removing MY answers to the questions suddenly makes the question not so loaded when it would have been my explanation future i.e. what Ankoku said

this is exactly how Overswarm asked me 2 questions and responded with the novel.

i dont even

 

[MarKO X]

Wrong definition of the word "loaded", genius.

He means "loaded" as in FIXED.

ohhhhh... okay...

like, are you gay and does your mom know you're gay?
well, not exactly, but I got cha.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Too much arguing over semantics is going on. Nothing has been accomplished in the last several posts.

 

[Omni]

lmao^

@Mark: It's not like that. The first question is suppose to condition you to responding as "No." to the second question. The second question is just a trap in itself. Answering it with yes or no means you're admitting you're gay. My question isn't posed like that at all. I am allowing him to say yes or no to both points and/or explain why it's neither and if it's something else.

 

[Kewkky]

so the question wouldn't be loaded if i saved my response for later? i don't understand how removing MY answers to the questions suddenly makes the question not so loaded when it would have been my explanation future i.e. what Ankoku said

this is exactly how Overswarm asked me 2 questions and responded with the novel.

i dont even

Will his answer open up a hidden realm of topics to talk about?

The MK Ban debate seems to be revolving around Omni and OS. If they both stop debating, apparently everyone stops asking related questions... Man, how crappy.