Official Metaknight Discussion

[Flayl]

The theoretical lot of Snakes that may or may not be having success at a local matter can't really factor into things. Do you know the overall win/loss ration between razer and Dojo?

And no I don't think MK never loses. But just because he loses doesn't mean that equal matchups exist. People win 60-40 matches.

Dojo has a set lead, 5-4. if you have enough patience you can go back in my post history and find the list of their encounters.

I'd put them down as even anyway.

 

[Mew2King]

no, I think i was better than mango overall at pound3. He was just better against me than I was against him. Everyone he beat, I *****. I lost game 3 from forward Bing off then losing close games then playing worse. I was overall better than him at that point, but the way events worked he got 1st at the end of the tournament. He got better since then and I got slightly worse, and I was never as good as him again and doubt I ever will be.

 

[Overswarm]

Meep		Ice Climbers			135.5
Overswarm	Meta Knight			131.06

Seriously?

You used ME on your list of top MKs?

Argument debunked. I'm no slouch but you're using me to hold down the better MK mains.

 

[laki]

I think It's either 5-4 Dojo or 5-5 I don't remember.

 

[ETWIST51294]

no, I think i was better than mango overall at pound3. He was just better against me than I was against him. Everyone he beat, I *****. I lost game 3 from forward Bing off then losing close games then playing worse. I was overall better than him at that point, but the way events worked he got 1st at the end of the tournament. He got better since then and I got slightly worse, and I was never as good as him again and doubt I ever will be.

Bad attitude is bad.

You can do it!!!!!!!!!

 

[etecoon]

erg ignore this

 

[Zankoku]

Meep		Ice Climbers			135.5
Overswarm	Meta Knight			131.06

Seriously?

You used ME on your list of top MKs?

Argument debunked. I'm no slouch but you're using me to hold down the better MK mains.

Your level of skill does not change the fact that you contributed a significant number of points toward Meta Knight on my rankings list - more than Shadow and Judge, in fact.

 

[Omni]

Geez, OS.

I bring you stats based on the same information and source you use. Why are you so quick to debunk mine and so quick to accept yours as legit?

Or do you finally understand what it means for data to be just that... data. How it is interpreted can change what the data represents. If you disagree with my interpretation it only further proves how malleable your own data and statistics can be.

 

[Overswarm]

Your level of skill does not change the fact that you contributed a significant number of points toward Meta Knight on my rankings list - more than Shadow and Judge, in fact.

So not only is my own middle-road MK skill level accounted for, we're missing two really good MKs from the list?

Good stuff, Omni. Convincing.

Geez, OS.

I bring you stats based on the same information and source you use. Why are you so quick to debunk mine and so quick to accept yours as legit?

Or are you finally understand what it means for data to be just that... data. How it is interpreted can change what the data represents. If you disagree with my interpretation it only further proves how malleable your own data and statistics can be.

Integrity with the data, reasoning behind my choices that don't directly effect the outcome in my favor, adding in statistics the public asks for on command, using statistics anti-ban asked for last time, I dunno take your pick.

 

[Delvro]

Your level of skill does not change the fact that you contributed a significant number of points toward Meta Knight on my rankings list - more than Shadow and Judge, in fact.

Must be all those UK tournaments with 78 scrubs!

=P

 

[Zankoku]

So not only is my own middle-road MK skill level accounted for, we're missing two really good MKs from the list?

Good stuff, Omni. Convincing.

Are you in a hurry, or just really bad at reading? I knew you gave more points than Shadow and Judge because they're both on the list that I posted up.

 

[Omni]

Overswarm...

 

[RDK]

Not according to the facts the pro-ban has gathered.

What facts?

Stop bringing up things that aren't even evidence for pro-ban. It seriously just makes you guys look foolish.

 

[Flayl]

How does the BBR feel about matchup ratios?

Accurate, completely useless, just need some tweaking?

Do you prefer the >, >>, = system?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

we prefer the word outliers, it makes disregarding things that are inconvenient to our agenda sound much better.

HAHAHAHA

"We prefer the world coincidence because it makes disregarding God's miracles sound better"

Science>your silly anecdotes

 

[etecoon]

</decided this was pointless>

 

[Flayl]

What facts?

Stop bringing up things that aren't even evidence for pro-ban. It seriously just makes you guys look foolish.

Why is there not a single other Falco player other than DEHF taking 1 set off the top MKs?

It can only be for 2 reasons:
a) All the best Falcos except DEHF are bad for not being able to take off even 1 measly set in 4 months in an even matchup
b) The matchup isn't in fact even, DEHF is winning a matchup with a small disadvantage.

 

[Omni]

so what does it mean when i finally bring in one statistical fact and:

1.) overswarm gets his panties in a bunch
2.) no other pro-ban even comments on what was said

i'll leave Overswarm's "you are 100% incorrect and here's why" rebuttal for the rest of you guys.

 

[Delvro]

Why is there not a single other Falco player other than DEHF taking 1 set off the top MKs?

It can only be for 2 reasons:
a) All the best Falcos except DEHF are bad for not being able to take off even 1 measly set in 4 months in an even matchup
b) The matchup isn't in fact even, DEHF is winning a matchup with a small disadvantage.

When I read this, I immediately thought it was B and that there's no chance anyone in their right mind would think A was true.

But then I remembered that most of anti-ban's argument is based off of Ally and ADHD.

 

[RDK]

Why is there not a single other Falco player other than DEHF taking 1 set off the top MKs?

It can only be for 2 reasons:
a) All the best Falcos except DEHF are bad for not being able to take off even 1 measly set in 4 months in an even matchup
b) The matchup isn't in fact even, DEHF is winning a matchup with a small disadvantage.

Would you like me to go back and compile every single post you've made about how matchup ratios are exaggerated / useless / bogus?

Why are you mocking matchup ratios in one argument and then using them as the foundation of another argument?

Doesn't make sense.

 

[Overswarm]

so what does it mean when i finally bring in one statistical fact and:

1.) overswarm gets his panties in a bunch
2.) no other pro-ban even comments on what was said

i'll leave Overswarm's "you are 100% incorrect and here's why" rebuttal for the rest of you guys.

You didn't bring up any statistical facts other than "If I divide MK's points by 13 and Diddy's by 2, Diddy has a better score".


Again, you've cherry picked the top players of other characters and then used a slew of less successful MKs in the bunch to alter the data.

 

[etecoon]

Why is there not a single other Falco player other than DEHF taking 1 set off the top MKs?

It can only be for 2 reasons:
a) All the best Falcos except DEHF are bad for not being able to take off even 1 measly set in 4 months in an even matchup
b) The matchup isn't in fact even, DEHF is winning a matchup with a small disadvantage.

SK92 has also defeated some good MK's like tyrant, havok, and DSF, those are really the only two falco players worth mentioning at that level...again, MK is simply just much more popular. this is the second time you've said "NO ONE ELSE IS DOING IT" when in fact someone is...

going to try a third time and just hope that it sticks?

 

[Spelt]

Seems like you have a lot of pointless posts, etecoon.


Omni, you are a 100% incorrect and here's why:

 

[theunabletable]

Why is there not a single other Falco player other than DEHF taking 1 set off the top MKs?

Because no one plays Falco at the top of the current metagame other than Larry.

SK92 is the closest and he isn't as good as Larry.

SK92 has also defeated some good MK's like havok and DSF, those are really the only two falco players worth mentioning at that level

SK92 isn't close to Larry level.

I wish SoCal would post its tourney results so we could see how much Larry contributes.

 

[Flayl]

Would you like me to go back and compile every single post you've made about how matchup ratios are exaggerated / useless / bogus?

Why are you mocking matchup ratios in one argument and then using them as the foundation of another argument?

Doesn't make sense.

Are you being purposely dense? The matchup ratio in the boards has Falco going even with MK.

I'm disputing that ratio. It's not even. It's not 55:45.

 

[HeroMystic]

Pro-Ban: YOU MUST RECOVER!

 

[Flayl]

SK92 has also defeated some good MK's like havok and DSF, those are really the only two falco players worth mentioning at that level...again, MK is simply just much more popular. this is the second time you've said "NO ONE ELSE IS DOING IT" when in fact someone is...

going to try a third time and just hope that it sticks?

DSF hasn't lost to SK92 in the past 4 months. Havok is consistently outplaced by DSF and Tyrant, which is why I didn't take data for him.

 

[The Brigand]

Hey, Overswarm. Do you happen to have those stats on hand? The ones that say MK has like 4000 points and Snake has so and so points and so on?

I'm just curious and wanted to do some math for a second here.

 

[etecoon]

DSF hasn't lost to SK92 in the past 4 months.

have they played that recently? SK92's aib only shows a few tournament placings outside of vegas. seems like a silly backpedal to me in any case.

 

[laki]

RDK: For Flayl and others so-called trashing matchups, they're just saying the one's on the boards are false. I've heard many good players say such and for what it's worth Inui has said that they're all garbage other than the marth boards.

 

[Overswarm]

Mew2King	                     MK			843.38
Tyrant		Meta Knight			302.78
Dojo		Meta Knight			242.63


Ally		Snake				711.28
Ultimate Razer	Snake				191.19
Bizkit		Snake				112.5


ADHD		Diddy Kong			620.38
Gnes		Diddy Kong			116.94
Tibs		Diddy Kong			94.43

Hey look, I accounted for popularity by only using the cream of the crop. >_>

MK - 464.59
Snake- 338.323
Diddy- 277.25


Well that's unfortunate. But maybe it's just M2K? After all, he has over 100 points on Ally and over 200 on ADHD, and all three of them are easily identifiable outliers (in other words, they don't represent the character as a whole).

Tyrant		Meta Knight			302.78
Dojo		Meta Knight			242.63



Ultimate Razer	Snake				191.19
Bizkit		Snake				112.5



Gnes		Diddy Kong			116.94
Tibs		Diddy Kong			94.43

MK 272.70
Snake 151.84
Diddy 105.68

That's weird.

It's almost like you have to divid MK's placements by 10 more than anyone else's to get a point value that doesn't show MK in a clear lead.

 

[RDK]

Are you being purposely dense? The matchup ratio in the boards has Falco going even with MK.

I'm disputing that ratio. It's not even. It's not 55:45.

Disputing that ratio based on what?

What is your interpretation of that matchup, and what evidence did you use to come to that interpretation?

 

[Overswarm]

Hey, Overswarm. Do you happen to have those stats on hand? The ones that say MK has like 4000 points and Snake has so and so points and so on?

I'm just curious and wanted to do some math for a second here.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

have fun

 

[Flayl]

have they played that recently? SK92's aib only shows a few tournament placings outside of vegas. seems like a silly backpedal to me in any case.

Where exactly am I backpedalling? Are you aware what backpedalling means? It means going back on something I said once I've been proven wrong and saying it doesn't matter/I really didn't think that.

Where have i backpedalled just now?

 

[swordgard]

Mew2King	                     MK			843.38
Tyrant		Meta Knight			302.78
Dojo		Meta Knight			242.63


Ally		Snake				711.28
Ultimate Razer	Snake				191.19
Bizkit		Snake				112.5


ADHD		Diddy Kong			620.38
Gnes		Diddy Kong			116.94
Tibs		Diddy Kong			94.43

Hey look, I accounted for popularity by only using the cream of the crop. >_>

MK - 464.59
Snake- 338.323
Diddy- 277.25


Well that's unfortunate. But maybe it's just M2K? After all, he has over 100 points on Ally and over 200 on ADHD, and all three of them are easily identifiable outliers (in other words, they don't represent the character as a whole).

Tyrant		Meta Knight			302.78
Dojo		Meta Knight			242.63



Ultimate Razer	Snake				191.19
Bizkit		Snake				112.5



Gnes		Diddy Kong			116.94
Tibs		Diddy Kong			94.43

MK 272.70
Snake 151.84
Diddy 105.68

That's weird.

It's almost like you have to divid MK's placements by 10 more than anyone else's to get a point value that doesn't show MK in a clear lead.

Actually not at all, quite the opposite. You did take into account popularity, take a pool of 1000 players, then a pool of 100. Chances are, if you take top 3 of each, youl have a better top 3 in the first, if only due to statistical representation. So yeah, your own argument falls apart since this actually proves that Snake and Diddy are very close to on par with MK.

Its not weird.

 

[etecoon]

you said that there are no other snake's that go even with MK's. proven wrong? claim the same about falco. proven wrong? say that it's irrelevant because they haven't played in months. you came to a conclusion and will say anything to support it without actually thinking about whether or not what's happening supports that view. it's one thing to say that MK is overcentralizing and is a problem, this is pretty verifiable, but you're just spewing a lot of nonsense and then moving on to spew more of it when the errors are pointed out. "if you say something incorrect often enough it becomes true", this is more underhanded than anything overswarm has done here <_<

 

[Flayl]

Disputing that ratio based on what?

What is your interpretation of that matchup, and what evidence did you use to come to that interpretation?

Maybe, just maybe, I'm basing it off tournament outcomes. Of what happens in real life. That would be a good guess.

 

[Overswarm]

Actually not at all, quite the opposite. You did take into account popularity, take a pool of 1000 players, then a pool of 100. Chances are, if you take top 3 of each, youl have a better top 3 in the first, if only due to statistical representation. So yeah, your own argument falls apart since this actually proves that Snake and Diddy are very close to on par with MK.

Its not weird.

You've made a lot of assumptions here. Care to back them up?

 

[swordgard]

You've made a lot of assumptions here. Care to back them up?

There are a lot more of MK players, do I really need to prove that or should I google them(or equivalent)? Other than this, what assumptions have I made?

 

[Flayl]

you said that there are no other snake's that go even with MK's.

What. I said Razer is pratically even with Dojo, in fact if you look at my post history I said they might as well be even.

proven wrong? claim the same about falco. proven wrong?

You haven't proved me wrong... at all. I explicitly said 4 months...

say that it's irrelevant because they haven't played in months. you came to a conclusion and will say anything to support it without actually thinking about whether or not what's happening supports that view.

Seriously, go read my posts again and stop putting words in my mouth.

Maybe you're just trolling me? That's the conclusion I'm reaching.