yeah, everything will work if you just practice your inferior character to death, just ask the best snak-oh wait, he plays MK now.
edit: I actually mostly agree with you for good characters like snake or diddy, but you left yourself open to that : p
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
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edit: I actually mostly agree with you for good characters like snake or diddy, but you left yourself open to that : p
It isn't, but keep in mind that when it comes to proving a point, especially in this matter, that hard, statistical backing is almost impossible to beat- unless the data was gathered incorrectly, which others would have to point out.
Statistics show that Meta Knight is dominating tournaments. In fact, in those three tournaments you posted, Meta Knight STILL took the most spots in those top positions.
And the gap widens.Psst... ankoku updated his chart.
DETAILS
S Rank «Uber» 43.23%
1Meta Knight (179 top8, 126 top4, 72 top2, 75 wins, 452 total) - 4020.7
2
A Rank «Overused» 20.67%
3
4
5
@Candy/Boss: Yes, because everyone's been too busy sitting on their ***** and waiting for something magical to appear for the last two years to knock MK down.
I didn't know Team Attack was on.
lol.
Overswarm
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I'd suggest everyone on the anti-ban think to themself "What if Metaknight should be banned" and think about it. I do this pretty frequently and ask myself "What if MK shouldn't be banned?"and double-check myself. Have yet to have anything consistent happen though.
boss8
Smash Hero
u might as well put up with MK.....people are gonna see how good the character is so why not use him......
i will never sellout to a character like MK....i play for fun....and money....
i will never sellout to a character like MK....i play for fun....and money....
#HBC | Red Ryu
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Hence why he is popular. Best character in the game with a low learning curve.
At least it's not low like Hiruko in Naruto rev 3. He is the biggest scrub character I've ever seen.
You're obviously not playing for money if you're not using Meta Knight.
Consider the money you DO get as a reward for entering a tournament with no particularly strong Meta Knights.
So...fix'd.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
And it's people like Boss that push the bar for characters such as Mario and Luigi, the ones that aren't quite up to snuff on the national level.
Everyone's pushing their characters' metagame, trying hard. But in the end...when it comes to the really big picture here (Nationals),
Is it enough?
Everyone's pushing their characters' metagame, trying hard. But in the end...when it comes to the really big picture here (Nationals),
Is it enough?
boss8
Smash Hero
says the sonic main >_>
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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Just to get a misconception out of the way.
Boss doesn't go Mario for tournaments anymore. There are other big-names out there that pushes the metagame for Mario more than Boss, such as Pierce, Famous, and Vato.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
For the ones that go to tournies and place well consistently, 'bout 60-65%.
Not even close to enough. Notice the lack of Mario and Luigi at nationals?
Mmhmm.
Sonic's a terrible character. I could do good, and maybe win some money, but:
1) If I do win money, it's because there were no Meta Knights at the tournament (or just not strong enough competition).
2) It's unreasonable to believe I can do any better than what I currently do with a character that has zero options against Meta Knight half of the time.
I'd be smart to switch to Meta Knight, but I don't because I'm a fool, and only play in tournaments for fun.
I only RARELY get money because I get lucky with the lack of MK in my tournaments.
Sorto
Smash Journeyman
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as i stated earlier, most of my math was based on the idea that a matchup ratio was for the set, not a particular match. if its for a particular match, how can one determine a fair stage to determine the ratio. if it is for the set, ratio makers can assume favorable cps. understand? There is no need to do any more complicated math. the matchup ratio says snake goes 45:55 with mk, but on what stage, even the neutrals have variation on that. i assumed it for the set. Regardless tho, either way, yours or mine, my intial point is valid about how big a small percent difference in a matchup is mathematically
Kuraudo
4Aerith
I knew he dropped him for Luigi, but I thought he used Mario as a secondary? Or was I mistaken there. Either way, oh well.
He's just slowly making the transition by using "Play to win".
If he truly wants to start winning, he'll pick Meta Knight.
Sorto
Smash Journeyman
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so correct me if i am wrong, but you are saying that tournaments standardly consist 65 percent of good mks, and 35 percent of various other characters?
#HBC | Red Ryu
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Your not a fool at all, I play to win but I do it with characters I want to win with. So it's not really cut throat competitive, but honestly I don't care I don't think you should either.
It is if you want to win.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
For some reason I got a sarcasm vibe from Red Ryu... XD
#HBC | Red Ryu
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Whenever I do sarcasm, it's normally blatantly obvious.
Link is S tier, has a 7:3 over MK, A true MK counter.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
You want a real Top Tier character?
Captain Falcon beats Snake. Now let's get back on topic before I get infracted. :{
Captain Falcon beats Snake. Now let's get back on topic before I get infracted. :{
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
CF may have 60/40s vs half the cast, but ganon is a guaranteed 65-35 on everyone except the very top, where he's mostly even.
MysteriousSilver
Smash Ace
Been over this a thousand times, but sure, why not.
The primary issues, at least in my mind, are a ridiculous over centralization on one character along with bannings and other rules implemented to limit MK, some of which effect other characters who do NOT need these limitations.
I don't know if I've seen -any- pro-banner complain about MK being 'unbeatable,' but people bring it up all the time. It's increasingly frustrating to be dismissed for an argument you never made time and time again.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
Actually I think 40% of each tournament would normally have MK players. But in terms of placing well 65% are MK. IDK 'cause I'm not up to date w/ Ankoku's tourney rankings.
Overswarm
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Not sure. The amount of overall players is generally only a drop in the bucket. There could be 10,000 MKs, but if they all went 0-2 it wouldn't matter. I've only concerned myself with the top 8 of large tournaments and the overall bottom line. data for both can be found in my post and on Ankoku's list.
Define broken.
I'll do my best. I'm on smashboards a decent amount, but when I'm not, I'm not. I don't go back 10 pages to necromance an older post, so if I didn't see you quoting me specifically I may have missed it.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Meta Knight himself isn't broken enough, in my opinion (not factoring stages and whatnot for the following point). It's the planking/scrooging/timing out that COMPLIMENT his superiority that raises the issue as a character; and these are all things that can't exactly be monitored at all times everywhere, so nothing is stopping an MK player from doing this. The overgeneralization at higher caliber play wherein his frame advantages/strengths also play an important factor in the gay tactics that suceed, also leave something to be desired in a legitimate top tier character.
When you make rules specifically against Meta Knight, such as a ledge grab rule to combat planking (a Meta Knight won't even have to exceed the limit and still plank a good portion of the match because he's that good), no scrooging (yeah good luck with differntiating between stalling and avoiding edge guarders and being watched all the time), etc, just to give others a chance?
Those that put in these rules to keep Meta Knight in the game, are already doing what the Anti-Ban side is accusing us of wanting MK gone for. So that lower tier characters and other players can "have a chance"; it's already being done with all those rules being put in, and yet MK is STILL finding ways around it at the highest level.
If TO's are gonna go that far to give others a chance, it's only a pre-cursor to the banning of the character itself.
That's how I feel at this point.
Long story short, if Meta Knight did not have every single one of those advantages and didn't have access to the methods that break the ideal of a Smash Bros. match, I would have been Anti-Ban long ago.
Hell, I don't even think there would be discussions about Meta Knight being banned to begin with. And if there were, they wouldn't last long. There's a reason why this has gone on forever.
When you make rules specifically against Meta Knight, such as a ledge grab rule to combat planking (a Meta Knight won't even have to exceed the limit and still plank a good portion of the match because he's that good), no scrooging (yeah good luck with differntiating between stalling and avoiding edge guarders and being watched all the time), etc, just to give others a chance?
Those that put in these rules to keep Meta Knight in the game, are already doing what the Anti-Ban side is accusing us of wanting MK gone for. So that lower tier characters and other players can "have a chance"; it's already being done with all those rules being put in, and yet MK is STILL finding ways around it at the highest level.
If TO's are gonna go that far to give others a chance, it's only a pre-cursor to the banning of the character itself.
That's how I feel at this point.
Long story short, if Meta Knight did not have every single one of those advantages and didn't have access to the methods that break the ideal of a Smash Bros. match, I would have been Anti-Ban long ago.
Hell, I don't even think there would be discussions about Meta Knight being banned to begin with. And if there were, they wouldn't last long. There's a reason why this has gone on forever.
Updated with DSF and Seibrik. Florida is ****ing terrible at this results thing. Also I'm not really sure Seibrik is on the level of the other MKs I posted.
Still need to update other players with some recent results.
Clicking the quote link in my previous post will now show you the completely updated results.
Non-MK players that beat them in more than one instance:
ADHD (Diddy)
Ally (Snake)
Atomsk (???)
DEHF (Falco)
Meep (IC)
Razer (Snake)
Number of top MK players I listed - 9
Number of players that beat them on more than one instance - 6
It does look pretty bad for the anti-ban side.
Non-MK players that beat them in more than one instance:
ADHD (Diddy)
Ally (Snake)
Atomsk (???)
DEHF (Falco)
Meep (IC)
Razer (Snake)
Number of top MK players I listed - 9
Number of players that beat them on more than one instance - 6
It does look pretty bad for the anti-ban side.
I'm not going to be putting any more time into this, the results seem conclusive. MK is too good.
I'm glad I waited until this data was collected before I changed my mind though.
Ankoku's thread and finding brackets for each tournament (most are in the link that's given to Ankoku).
I didn't even look for players beating them consistently, if more players had beat them in more than one tournament I wouldn't have changed my mind yet, haha.
I didn't even look for players beating them consistently, if more players had beat them in more than one tournament I wouldn't have changed my mind yet, haha.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
ignore .
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