Official Metaknight Discussion

[Kewkky]

I can't believe there's people that don't know how to "instant throw" an item.

It's not even THAT hard to figure out, guys. "Instant" "throwing"? Meaning, catch an item, then throw instantly? Z catches an item without doing any animations at all (or you could airdodge, but I just use Z), then immediately throw it.

All the time, all the time, it should be done as ZSS/Diddy/Peach/Link/TL/any other item character all the time.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Sorry to burst your bubble, that's just z-catching to throwing and item. IIRC it's air-dodge to c-stick throw.

 

[RDK]

If it truly was 100-0, then that would mean the ICs player can just spam an attack and win. Truth is, IC's can't get careless or else Ganon might catch them offguard and take a stock off of them. Hell, at a 100-0 MU, losing a stock is impossible: it means that the opponent is going to completely destroy you, and you have NO chance of winning whatsoever, not even the ability to remove a stock off of that character (yes, the 0 can hurt the 100, but not kill. If 0 can take a stock off of 100, then that means that the 0 can take 3 stocks as well if both play the same way during the match).


100-0 means that the 100 CAN'T lose.

More like one player's controller isn't even plugged in. That's what 100-0 means. So there is no such thing in high-level play.

Also, people must have a fundamental misunderstanding of the matchup system when they think a 60-40 matchup ratio means the advantaged party will win 60% of the time.

 

[Sosuke]

I can't believe there's people that don't know how to "instant throw" an item.

It's not even THAT hard to figure out, guys. "Instant" "throwing"? Meaning, catch an item, then throw instantly? Z catches an item without doing any animations at all (or you could airdodge, but I just use Z), then immediately throw it.

All the time, all the time, it should be done as ZSS/Diddy/Peach/Link/TL/any other item character all the time.

Doing it like that causes you to do an aerial while holding an item. Instant Throw is throwing it as soon as you catch it.

You can also turn around while catching it and catch items from behind.

 

[MKOwnage]

there is no reason what-so-ever to believe that MK is suddenly going to become less dominant than he has been. the main question is simply whether his domination thus far is acceptable or if he takes it too far

This is true. However that marvelous Diddy display at Pound could be room for reconsideration. Or it could be every MK that placed top just sucked at the match up.

 

[Chuee]

I actually heard of instant throwing like back in early 2009 or late 2008 ._.

 

[Sosuke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh0psY9ixOA#t=6m23sec

I made this early 2009, so it was known before that at least.

 

[Kewkky]

Doing it like that causes you to do an aerial while holding an item. Instant Throw is throwing it as soon as you catch it.

You can also turn around while catching it and catch items from behind.

I do it all the time with ZSS, throws and catches and zdrops and glide-tosses and frametraps... If instantly catching and throwing an item isn't "instant throwing", then I don't know what "instant throwing" is supposed to be.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

What you're describing is instantly catching and waiting then throwing

If you catch an item with an airdodge, you can cancel your airdodge with a smash throw from your c-stick so it's in your hand for almost only one frame, which is instantly.

 

[Kewkky]

What you're describing is instantly catching and waiting then throwing

If you catch an item with an airdodge, you can cancel your airdodge with a smash throw from your c-stick so it's in your hand for almost only one frame, which is instantly.

AD Tossing would be a better terminology then.

 

[Dekar173]

"Airdodge Canceled Item Throw"

You catch the item with airdodge, and in the first few frames where your airdodge isn't actually invincible, you throw it.

It's easier than Z-catch > c-stick imo, but that's just preference honestly.

 

[Hylian]

lol hylian over a year would be 2008 silly scrub

plus, you've NEVER done it in ANY of the MMs/friendlies we've had, neither has over 95% of the people I've played oos. Anyone who HAS done it, I TAUGHT it to.



Airdodge canceled item throw-

airdodge (this catches the item, as we all know) > c-stick (VERY fast, within the first few frames of the airdodge, it cancels the airdodge directly into an item throw)

yes, VERY easy, except for when people don't even know how to do it lmfao

I have too done it against you lol. I even talked with you about it and how about hanson teaching me it a long time ago.

 

[Omni]

So... this weekend.

SCSA:
1.) DEHF (Falco)
2.) Tyrant (MK)
3.) DSF (MK)

C3:
1.) Boss (Luigi)
2.) Chu (Kirby)
3.) June (Lucario)
4.) Candy (Snake)
5.) Omni (Metaknight)
5.) Esoj (Diddy)
7.) Meep (IC's)
7.) PS (Olimar)

OC #2:
1.) Mew2King (MK)
2.) Blue Rogue (Wario)
3.) Capem (MK)
4.) Infern (Snake)
5.) Nope (Snake)
5.) Overswarm (MK)
7.) Champ (IC, Falco, MK)
7.) YBM (Kirby)

just 3 results i know from word of mouth.

seriously, this discussion doesn't need to be happening. gtfo

 

[Chuee]

Omni you also forgot HD which top 3 were
1. Lain (IC)
2. Kain (Wolf)
3. Zeton (Fox)
>:D

 

[Luigi player]

So... this weekend.

SCSA:
1.) DEHF (Falco)
2.) Tyrant (MK)
3.) DSF (MK)

C3:
1.) Boss (Luigi)
2.) Chu (Kirby)
3.) June (Lucario)
4.) Candy (Snake)
5.) Omni (Metaknight)
5.) Esoj (Diddy)
7.) Meep (IC's)
7.) PS (Olimar)

OC #2:
1.) Mew2King (MK)
2.) Blue Rogue (Wario)
3.) Capem (MK)
4.) Infern (Snake)
5.) Nope (Snake)
5.) Overswarm (MK)
7.) Champ (IC, Falco, MK)
7.) YBM (Kirby)

just 3 results i know from word of mouth.

seriously, this discussion doesn't need to be happening. gtfo

And there's even more with "not MKs" winning...

I look at the tourney results and I don't see a MK problem... at all. Still good **** to all winners.

People just like to make a drama and whine about everything...

 

[Inui]

Results like those prove MK doesn't need to be banned at all.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

If ya want the full top 8 to SCSA:

1.) DEHF (Falco)
2.) Tyrant (MK)
3.) DSF (MK)
4.) Mike Haze (Marth)
5.) Havok (MK)
5.) SK92 (Falco)
7.) Rich Brown (Olimar)
7.) Z (Pikachu)

Hmmm.

 

[RDK]

So... this weekend.

SCSA:
1.) DEHF (Falco)
2.) Tyrant (MK)
3.) DSF (MK)

C3:
1.) Boss (Luigi)
2.) Chu (Kirby)
3.) June (Lucario)
4.) Candy (Snake)
5.) Omni (Metaknight)
5.) Esoj (Diddy)
7.) Meep (IC's)
7.) PS (Olimar)

OC #2:
1.) Mew2King (MK)
2.) Blue Rogue (Wario)
3.) Capem (MK)
4.) Infern (Snake)
5.) Nope (Snake)
5.) Overswarm (MK)
7.) Champ (IC, Falco, MK)
7.) YBM (Kirby)

just 3 results i know from word of mouth.

seriously, this discussion doesn't need to be happening. gtfo

Holy ****. Luigi? Kirby? Lucario?

Pro-ban get outta here.

 

[Kuraudo]

Not gonna lie. This ain't looking too good. lol

 

[Judo777]

Sweet thats cool results from one weekend you should look at OS' thread cause i think his research is over a a larger scale.

 

[Kuraudo]

Sweet thats cool results from one weekend you should look at OS' thread cause i think his research is over a a larger scale.

It's not like these should be overlooked though.

Still want him banned, but we should see if things like this continue. It shows it's possible, obviously.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

The issue isn't MK being "unbeatable," etc. etc.

 

[Espy Rose]

The MKs were too busy taking 37% and 50% of the results in the other two tournaments, obviously.

 

[Inui]

Pro-ban needs to quit life.

 

[Kewkky]

Kirby?

Kirby's perfectly capable of taking out MKs, gay strats out of the way.

I like those results. Now, answer me this... Did those MK players plank/scrooge/dair camp/whatever? Or did they play "honorably"?


That's what I want handled. I like those results, and hate them when MKs worm around rules and stall like no other character can, even though it's painfully obvious MK is a great character in and of itself. Since players flock to the best characters, and P2W attitudes make them do whatever it takes to win, it's only natural that when the green calls, the ledges look a lot more friendly... And THAT'S when I want MK gone for good.

 

[Vyse]

Now now Inui

So... this weekend.

SCSA:
1.) DEHF (Falco)
2.) Tyrant (MK)
3.) DSF (MK)

C3:
1.) Boss (Luigi)
2.) Chu (Kirby)
3.) June (Lucario)
4.) Candy (Snake)
5.) Omni (Metaknight)
5.) Esoj (Diddy)
7.) Meep (IC's)
7.) PS (Olimar)

OC #2:
1.) Mew2King (MK)
2.) Blue Rogue (Wario)
3.) Capem (MK)
4.) Infern (Snake)
5.) Nope (Snake)
5.) Overswarm (MK)
7.) Champ (IC, Falco, MK)
7.) YBM (Kirby)

just 3 results i know from word of mouth.

seriously, this discussion doesn't need to be happening. gtfo

The thing with Pound is, with all the best players reporting in for it, of course the current metagame will dictate MK dominance. Take it back down to regional level and we get this.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

The thing with Pound is, with all the best players reporting in for it, of course the current metagame will dictate MK dominance. Take it back down to regional level and we get this.

Which raises the issue.

Should people really complain that MK limits the characters who can place at the national level to MK and a few characters who have close matchups with MK, when 99% of them aren't good enough to place at a national no matter who they use, and probably never will be?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Probably why I never blame Lucario or Link for any losses with him, I know fully well my skill was the problem, I only blame my character if it's an 8-2 or worse.

 

[LooftWaffles]

The issue isn't MK being "unbeatable," etc. etc.

Then what is?

I mean, if MK isnt broken, how in the hell is he ban worthy?

Noone has come up with a viable answer to this question

 

[B!squick]

You know what might be the best and most simple answer to MK? Turning items on.

 

[theunabletable]

@LootWaffles: Because we're trying to cater to mid-level players who wouldn't win with him gone anyways, obviously!

You know what might be the best and most simple answer to MK? Turning items on.

Turn on Bumbers, make a custom small stage (only 4 blocks wide), and Pit is suddenly god tier

 

[SZ2K]

Which raises the issue.

Should people really complain that MK limits the characters who can place at the national level to MK and a few characters who have close matchups with MK, when 99% of them aren't good enough to place at a national no matter who they use, and probably never will be?

=\ how come when pro-ban makes the argument for MK destroying amateur competition anti-ban makes the argument that at the national level these freakishly superb players can beat MK. How can the contradicting statement also be made lol

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Uh, I didn't say anything like that.

 

[solecalibur]

Then what is?

I mean, if MK isnt broken, how in the hell is he ban worthy?

Noone has come up with a viable answer to this question

Broken is 100 0 MU but say we have 80 20 MU's vs all characters that means hes beatable but that doesn't mean hes not broken

I'll admit some people are extending this a little further then I like it on his "brokeness lvl" probly because I have a ok MU vs him compared to the rest of the cast but I also agree something has to be done with him

 

[Omni]

you guys are silly.

"hey, look at all these tournaments where an MK doesn't win or where an overwhelming amount of different characters place extremely well over or around MK's placement."

pro ban #1: uh... did they plank, scrooge, grab the ledge 50 times? MK didn't play gay enough!
pro ban #2: uh... we didn't say MK couldn't be beaten...
pro ban #3: uh... Overswarm has a picture with bar graphs and pie charts. statistics man
pro ban #4: uh... you guys have no idea how to play Luigi. wooow.
pro ban #5: uh... this doesn't look good for pro-ban, but i still want MK banned!

look people. these results are fuggin proof that the metagame is healthy and is moving in a direction that allows many characters to be viable. stop being so blind when reality is hitting you in the face. if u really can look at these results and find some kind of excuse to not acknowledge them then we already know debating with you is like a guy with no fingers. it's pointless

 

[Inui]

I officially co-sign all of Omni's posts.

 

[GodMeowMix]

you guys are silly.

"hey, look at all these tournaments where an MK doesn't win or where an overwhelming amount of different characters place extremely well over or around MK's placement."

pro ban #1: uh... did they plank, scrooge, grab the ledge 50 times? MK didn't play gay enough!
pro ban #2: uh... we didn't say MK couldn't be beaten...
pro ban #3: uh... Overswarm has a picture with bar graphs and pie charts. statistics man
pro ban #4: uh... you guys have no idea how to play Luigi. wooow.
pro ban #5: uh... this doesn't look good for pro-ban, but i still want MK banned!

look people. these results are fuggin proof that the metagame is healthy and is moving in a direction that allows many characters to be viable. stop being so blind when reality is hitting you in the face. if u really can look at these results and find some kind of excuse to not acknowledge them then we already know debating with you is like a guy with no fingers. it's pointless

Quoting for emphasis, great post.

 

[HyperGumba]

Is MK's tornado actually banned?
Just curious,because I heard it's banned,but it isn't that much powerful,except when it's spammed... also nice one Omni

 

[Nefarious B]

This is obviously evidence, but that's just all it is. It's a weekends worth of data, and at the regional level. I don't think anyone would weigh it even in the same league as a national like Pound 4... just saying

 

[LooftWaffles]

Broken is 100 0 MU but say we have 80 20 MU's vs all characters that means hes beatable but that doesn't mean hes not broken

Yes ,that means exactly that hes not broken

Akuma= broken
O Sagat= Too good

MK= nerfed version of O Sagat