x After Dawn x
Smash Master
...Seriously?
If you honestly think I'm trolling, you're either extremely ignorant or stubborn.
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If you honestly think I'm trolling, you're either extremely ignorant or stubborn.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
The tier list is an opinion derived from the best and most knowledgeable smashes in the communuty, because its not fact but its based off facts and numbers and tournament results.
The list isnt as it is because somebody ambiguously thinks it is, reasons were given assumptions were made, and actual data goes into ranking the characters.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
That's exactly it, but apparently somebody thinks I'm trolling when I say the tier list is built upon opinion.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
That's probably because you don't elaborate enough when you post something.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
I know lol, I was feeling lazy when I was talking about Falcon's defensive options. But that doesn't change the fact that the tier list is still built upon opinion.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
If you want to be taken seriously maybe you should elaborate on what you say and then not call everyone with a dissenting opinion a troll instead of just posting one or two lines.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Irony...? Clearly, you didn't read a single thing that I said. He was the one calling me the troll, I never called anybody a troll.
indie_dave
Smash Ace
dude
everybody knows cubaisdeath and pockyD are 2legit
if they think you should qualify your posts better
no need get defensive...
just try qualifying your posts better.
/random input
also ness for top tire discuss
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Well we dont know what you are thinking and this is the internet. You gotta just make sure that you are clear in what you are trying to say.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Nobody ever understands me. T_T
/emo
/emo
Dawn: It is a fact that Marth will **** Mewtwo on most occasions.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
come on man, dont kick a character who is already down lol.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Ness for top tier.
When he finally levels up and uses moves he actually learns, he'll be really good. Psi Rockin + Paralysis + Life Up all day. Same with Mewtwo.
When he finally levels up and uses moves he actually learns, he'll be really good. Psi Rockin + Paralysis + Life Up all day. Same with Mewtwo.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Listen with your heart.
You will understand.
You will understand.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think the lowest ranked character that ever won a large tournament in 07 was ICs for Pound 2 but that's not really fair because Chu is a top level player, and easily one of the top 5 players for that era. Mango at Pound 3 was also similar, with mid tier / high tier (whatever you count Puff as) winning it, but again it's troublesome to use that because Mango's really good so you could also make the argument for simple player skill. Also, M2K hates Puff 
On West Coast there was a large tournament with Luigi Ka-Master and Hugs in the finals, so if we're going off slightly smaller (but still formidable) tournaments, then Samus is also viable, but again we have the issue of Hugs and Ka simply being better than people at that time. Hugs is semi-retired from Melee (or did he quit entirely? Someone correct me on this), and Ka doesn't travel much, though, so - like Pound 2 - it's somewhat of an isolated incident.
The top four have a significantly higher amount of winning power than the characters below them. I think Jigglypuff, Falcon, and Peach all have enough to win good sized events, and get far, and a good pilot can take a mid tier pretty far, but whether or not the mid tiers can actually pull off a win with how gay Melee's become / is becoming is a tough one. I'm optimistic, though, so I'll give a very guarded "yes".
For major tournament, I think the upper end of mid tier can go far but I don't think unless they're more skilled or lucky or something they'll be able to win. Similarly, I think it would be brutally hard, but high tier could probably do it too.
On West Coast there was a large tournament with Luigi Ka-Master and Hugs in the finals, so if we're going off slightly smaller (but still formidable) tournaments, then Samus is also viable, but again we have the issue of Hugs and Ka simply being better than people at that time. Hugs is semi-retired from Melee (or did he quit entirely? Someone correct me on this), and Ka doesn't travel much, though, so - like Pound 2 - it's somewhat of an isolated incident.
The top four have a significantly higher amount of winning power than the characters below them. I think Jigglypuff, Falcon, and Peach all have enough to win good sized events, and get far, and a good pilot can take a mid tier pretty far, but whether or not the mid tiers can actually pull off a win with how gay Melee's become / is becoming is a tough one. I'm optimistic, though, so I'll give a very guarded "yes".
For major tournament, I think the upper end of mid tier can go far but I don't think unless they're more skilled or lucky or something they'll be able to win. Similarly, I think it would be brutally hard, but high tier could probably do it too.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Why the hell would u expect ****ty players to win tournaments. Top level players should always win unless the moons align or some sort of crazy mishap. But they are top level because they win. the same player without winning is just good
Mango won with puff. I think thats the lowest one, that I know of anyway.
Mango won with puff. I think thats the lowest one, that I know of anyway.
Binx
Smash Master
Chu wins plenty of tournaments with ICs (though not typically national ones), Armada wins all the tournaments in Europe with Peach. For the most part though you are really handicapping yourself if you pick anyone under Falco.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
not neccesarily handicapping.
some chars just don't feel right for certain people so they go with whats comfortable or where confidence resides.
some chars just don't feel right for certain people so they go with whats comfortable or where confidence resides.
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
its not a handicap, is just that your chances of winning (the whole tournament) severely decrease. a long time ago(probably 2006-2007) The King told me "if you pick anyone under peach you are asking for trouble." I believe it. once you are out of the top tier region, your matchups get severely harder, and your characters have more "hard counters" than having advantages, or going even with another character.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
My point was that they're (Mango and Chu) strange and arguably handicapped by picking worse characters. Pound 2 and Pound 3 happened once out of how many tournaments in that time.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
I would even argue to an extent that anybody below Sheik is limiting your "potential." Like on the previous pages, we discussed how Falco is a toned-down version of Fox, and how his control of the stage and his damage-racking combos are overseen by his inability to recover and how easy it is to gimp him. I remember even seeing one of those joke flow charts with Falco, and in the ending, it said "Lost? ---> Switch to Fox." While this flow chart was obviously a joke, it was correct to a certain extent; many people who realize how easy it is to gimp Falco often switch to Fox and then main him, not only because he is a better character overall but because of the gimps he can do on other characters and how more difficult it is to gimp him.
Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc
Watch the last kill, that's basically exactly what I mean by "easy to gimp." Not to say that this couldn't have happened to Fox (seeing how it's M2K controlling that Marth), but it's definitely a lot harder to gimp Fox and I don't think M2K would've gotten that gimp had it been Fox. Maybe.
Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc
Watch the last kill, that's basically exactly what I mean by "easy to gimp." Not to say that this couldn't have happened to Fox (seeing how it's M2K controlling that Marth), but it's definitely a lot harder to gimp Fox and I don't think M2K would've gotten that gimp had it been Fox. Maybe.
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
I know fox, marth, sheik, falco, falcon, jiggs, and ics have won national tournaments. Has peach ever done this? Not counting Europe and their PAL shenanigans. I can't think of a huge USA tournament that peach has won.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Peach does well enough with good consistency, I think. Good Peaches don't really win, but they don't really do bad either.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
ur right. its not that mango likes puff hes just sooo good that he wants a challenge.
Play with who ur are comfortable with and other characters are good cps at the least
number1ricky
Smash Cadet
I really wish there was a way to play Ness good
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
there is a way to play ness good. ever hear of simna? it just sucks that there are so many ways to beat the character lol
otg
Smash Master
Uh... Simna... yeah.... not so great. No offense, that dude was the innovator of Ness's metagame, but that's not saying much at all. Ness is incredibly limited, and it shows. Where is Simna now? What high level tournaments did he ever win? None, most of what I've seen from him are videos of him beasting on players worse than him, and than getting 3 or 4 stocked by players who actually know what they are doing.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
that's cheating though
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
oshi here comes mangos and peaches
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
god ****it mango lol
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
he's beaten lucky with yoshi before lol
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