Binx
Smash Master
Fox destroys Young Link at all levels of play, even noob ones.
But seriously, why don't more people use Sheik, she is SOOOO **** good.
But seriously, why don't more people use Sheik, she is SOOOO **** good.
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play her for a week among mildly competent Fox/Falcos and you'll figure out why. the learning curve is a *****.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
While I agree the learning curves in those specific matchups are fairly challenging, her other ones take about 15 good minutes of mashing your face into the controller to learn.
Sadly enough, space animals are very popular.
However, if she does just fine against Fox and Falco when she gets past said learning curve, and she's - on paper - better than or equal to Fox against every other character (except Peach, ICs, and Puff) while still ****** Marth (and Samus, for what it's worth) much harder than him (and I'd even say she's better against Falco than Fox but that one is subjective) then why wouldn't she be the best character?
edit: I strongly feel mid level Sheik loses badly to Fox and Falco but it becomes even and possibly even favourable to her at higher levels. Maybe I'm just too optimistic?
Sadly enough, space animals are very popular.
However, if she does just fine against Fox and Falco when she gets past said learning curve, and she's - on paper - better than or equal to Fox against every other character (except Peach, ICs, and Puff) while still ****** Marth (and Samus, for what it's worth) much harder than him (and I'd even say she's better against Falco than Fox but that one is subjective) then why wouldn't she be the best character?
edit: I strongly feel mid level Sheik loses badly to Fox and Falco but it becomes even and possibly even favourable to her at higher levels. Maybe I'm just too optimistic?
CommanderCody08
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 149
Why is this definetely the final version of the tier list?
Can't the metagame still evolve or have we accepted that this is how its going to be forever? If I were the back room I would of not limited myself by saying its definetly over.
I really like how it looks though. I don't completely agree with everything but I realize that I hardly know anything.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
The metagame will never evolve further you silly goose. Isn't it obvious?
HAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know 
heehee wish u would LOOSEN up!!! sometimes its good to be REAL loose and just it ALL HANG OUT (so to speak XD)!!!!! but baby i wouldnt worry about it you need to just come party with me, the diva, rupaul and ill show you a real good time!!!!! i can tell by the way you type you'd be really......open XD....give me a reply you sassy thang!!! don't leave a poor girl waiting XD!!!!!!!
heehee wish u would LOOSEN up!!! sometimes its good to be REAL loose and just it ALL HANG OUT (so to speak XD)!!!!! but baby i wouldnt worry about it you need to just come party with me, the diva, rupaul and ill show you a real good time!!!!! i can tell by the way you type you'd be really......open XD....give me a reply you sassy thang!!! don't leave a poor girl waiting XD!!!!!!!
*drum roll*
And the replyyyyy
Oh snap a two week ban... better luck next time.
And the replyyyyy
Oh snap a two week ban... better luck next time.
BunBun
Smash Master
Nice.
So still no reply to my most recent PM???
Also, can someone explain why Kirby is above Pichu in the bottom tier? I'm actually being serious... I would have though Kirby would be lower.
So still no reply to my most recent PM???
Also, can someone explain why Kirby is above Pichu in the bottom tier? I'm actually being serious... I would have though Kirby would be lower.
yes, very much so. The matchup gets better as she learns it, but I'd say that she's still at a noticeable disadvantage vs. both spacies.
Laijin
Smash Hero
...........
No.
D
Deleted member
Guest
HAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know heehee wish u would LOOSEN up!!! sometimes its good to be REAL loose and just it ALL HANG OUT (so to speak XD)!!!!! but baby i wouldnt worry about it you need to just come party with me, the diva, rupaul and ill show you a real good time!!!!! i can tell by the way you type you'd be really......open XD....give me a reply you sassy thang!!! don't leave a poor girl waiting XD!!!!!!!
<3 <3 <3
heehee wish u would LOOSEN up!!! sometimes its good to be REAL loose and just it ALL HANG OUT (so to speak XD)!!!!! but baby i wouldnt worry about it you need to just come party with me, the diva, rupaul and ill show you a real good time!!!!! i can tell by the way you type you'd be really......open XD....give me a reply you sassy thang!!! don't leave a poor girl waiting XD!!!!!!!<3 <3 <3
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
We will simply have to agree to disagree then. I think she becomes very good vs space animals and the matchup becomes perfectly reasonable and even as they come. Possibly even advantage against Falco, but that's probably silly optimism.
Anyways, back to more important matters. Bathtub breakfast party. Do we need bread? Or will the toaster alone suffice?
Oracle
Smash Master
Kevin you should have tapped it.
Except it was probably a guy
BunBun
Smash Master
I love you, MowHAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know
<3 <3 <3
i...have to quote this, this is definitely one of the amazing things i've read on this forumsHAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know
<3 <3 <3
I just got a new signature as wellHAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know
<3 <3 <3
way to go again jerk.
DrewB008
Smash Lord
wtf rupaul deserves at least a little credit
seems like now would be the perfect time to post something about perfect play, no mod in their right mind would infract me for doing it right after this all went on
seems like now would be the perfect time to post something about perfect play, no mod in their right mind would infract me for doing it right after this all went on
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Heh...I guess you really are unpredictable. Just like your status claims.HAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know
<3 <3 <3
D
Deleted member
Guest
I think you need to bust my balls back by seeking revenge.I just got a new signature as well
way to go again jerk.
in the pokecenter! oh ****!
BunBun
Smash Master
Hey, so what part of the past two pages hasn't been "Minor Spam" =PI just got a new signature as well
way to go again jerk.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
nah nah this is just normal spam, 2 points for everyone plz
lol that would bring me up to 5 points lmao
lol that would bring me up to 5 points lmao
Slithe
Smash Apprentice
What brought that up?HAAAAAAAY kevinM sweety u are a real square you know
Mods are allowed to have more fun then normal people. Duh.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
please lets not discuss perfect play, it really gets no where and nobody is perfect.
im starting to believe sheik could be top if more people played her though, even though fox is stupid. One grab is all it takes for sheik.
im starting to believe sheik could be top if more people played her though, even though fox is stupid. One grab is all it takes for sheik.
only because you are on a motha f'n boat
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
The limitation for Fox, I feel, is that his combos are that. Combos.
Because of the nature of Sheik's d-throw I've felt for a while that the inescapability with trained reflexes and timing (akin to our beloved Falcon, only more broken) makes her have ultimately much better potential inescapable strings. Moreover, Fox combos can be DIed much more proficiently than previously; U-throw U-air SDI (my beloved demo Kirby) and shine SDI and CC reduce the effectiveness of a lot of his traditionally **** homo baby killing combos; what does Fox do to a Sheik who just reacts to his tech and regrabs and eventually links a dash attack --> fair into an edgeguard from it?
Fox has the best ground game, the shine, a more broken projectile, and is virtually lagless. But Sheik is also virtually lagless and has range to go with it. Additionally, I'd argue her platform game is on par with his if not better and she has better inescapables. She recieves crap for her recovery because of how stupidly laggy it is, but the trade off is that it's almost impossible to gimp it unless you're Jigglypuff or something. Fox's superior offstage options are awesome, but he's gimpable admittedly and that is undeniably a big problem at high level. You will be chucked off. And often you will die. At like 10. And it will suck.
Fox's versatility offstage will save him a lot, but not always, whereas Sheik's consistency will make her be punished, but usually not with death until stupid percentages. IMO consistency is better overall and I think Sheik is better in that respect.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Awhile back Lord HDL i believe his name was wrote up an article about how its easier to use chars like sheik and marth but win by a small margin rather than fox/falco who tend to **** when they are playing well.
i think you practically said the same thing as he did, but in a more technical, narrowed down matchup.
i concur.
i think you practically said the same thing as he did, but in a more technical, narrowed down matchup.
i concur.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think Fox is easier to use than Sheik at a high level though.
not get grabbed
Scar
#HarveyDent
yeah fox has the concrete option of not ever getting grabbed
but good post kirbykaze, that leads me to believe that perhaps as we get farther into melee's evolution sheik really will be on top
but good post kirbykaze, that leads me to believe that perhaps as we get farther into melee's evolution sheik really will be on top
I think a lot of the Fox's these days don't abuse NEARLY as much as they should the frighteningly good baiting and camping/zoning game of Fox and instead run around going
HOLY **** MY NAIR IS GOOD.
HOLY **** MY NAIR IS GOOD.
BUT HIS NAIR IS REALLY ****ING GOOD! a
Yeah you're right nevermind.
KevinM why do you hate meee??
also Fox's nair is way too good.
also Fox's nair is way too good.
D
Deleted member
Guest
baiting and camping is easy to **** up. running around doing nairs is considerably easier.
philbobjoe
Smash Journeyman
Well if people were only going for easy, they would use sheik.
i hate the misconception that sheik is easy to play at high levels of play.
sure when you are first learning the game she is easy, and if you are going soley of technical skill shes not htat hard either
but playing a good player with sheik requires a buttload of thinking.
sure when you are first learning the game she is easy, and if you are going soley of technical skill shes not htat hard either
but playing a good player with sheik requires a buttload of thinking.
IShotLazer
Smash Journeyman
Anyone does, if there was one character that was completely easier than everyone else to learn at high levels of play everyone would just be them. People just john cus they can't use her. She is weird.
pockyD
Smash Legend
fox is the easiest to learn at high levels of play
We'd win local tournaments, but as far as National events, we'd get to pro bracket and the matchups would be too horrendous to get too far.
Pretty much the last big tourney before Brawl's release was Tourney Play at E for All where all the best from NorCal & SoCal were attending (Isai, Mango, DBR, DSF, etc): finals came down to DSF vs t1mmy's Kirby.
So, yeah, Omnigamer was popular, but he was by far the best Kirby. Especially when he'd get 4-stocked by random Fox players and t1mmy took out Zelgadis.
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