Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[CyberZixx]

That is the case. Each character excels at different parts of the game and will fit better for different people. Some may say Marth is harder to play than a floatie but personally I find Marth easiest. Well, besides Shiek. Some of that has to do with his style and other has to do with I put the most effort into his by a mile so he makes the most sense to me. Playing Peach I feel lost in comparsion.

 

[Ezzee]

Even sheik become more difficult to play at higher levels due to her predictable recovery and the fact she's easier to KO. She's undoubtedly the best for casuals, but she can't see quite as much success in tourneys. I know M2K has won a couple of smaller tourneys, but I can't remember the last time a Sheik won a major tourney. Maybe it's just me though

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik, Falco, Fox, Peach, Marth, and Puff have equal(ish) power IMO. I feel Puff is one of the harder ones in this metagame because she's kind of underdeveloped and I don't really feel that the bair wall really works unless you're as good at it as HBox. And then her other base strategies like edge camping and such have obvious counters like angled projectiles (icicles, needles, turnips), Marth's d-tilt, and smart edge grabs into invulnerable aerials (and honestly even though planking is supposed to beat it, lasers generally can get Puff to leave if you're simply more patient or get her to KO%). Her overarching neutral game strategies are polarizing because of punishment potential and various built-in immunities but have pretty simple and safe counters. Because so little works vs her crouch or whatever it can catch unprepared people stupidly hard, sure, but decent players know the Puff MU's basics nowadays.

Sheik, Marth, and the spacies have the most obvious base gameplans and strategic transitions in combat and generally simplistic yet effective punishment trees that set up further punishment, positional advantage, or kills.

 

[CyberZixx]

Oh, for sure. All the characters are hard to play at high level. Or even solid mid level. I for one dislike the attitude I sometimes see that the fast fallers are the hard to play characters and Shiek,Marth,Peach,Jiggs got it easy. I think that is why I like seeing lists like V posted. It is contary to that. Not a very productive topic though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'd rank them as

Fox / Sheik
Falco
Marth
Peach
Puff

For winning at a regional level, disregarding the results of the very top level players. Fox pulls results but he's inconsistent in tech skill. But then Sheik drops d-throw on spacies in practice (easy reaction or tech flub) so yeah. Obviously this assumes that you're not in a strictly Falco / Peach region or some odd character population like that because then Fox at the top makes no sense. So let's assume a relatively normal character distribution. Whatever that means.

Marth might deserve higher or lower. Not too sure about this placement. I find Falco has a higher skill average across players than Marths and most good Marths have been playing longer. So I'd imagine Falco's skillset is more expansive or accessible on offset. But then the good Marths always wind up being really, really good so... yeah. I feel Marth is less intuitive in certain respects.

Peach is similar to Marth for player quality IMO except there's always a group of 4-5 solid Peaches that aren't top 5 or anything but are really, really good and fairly consistently solid placers. Whereas Marths are usually either phenomenal, inconsistent, or almost strictly a space animal slayer. Peach may be above Marth for just chance of winning but it's hard to tell and Peach gets worse when weird characters like Doc or Link are around because her base game vs those characters is kind of weird. Her base game's details and such change a lot across matchups because of how her movement puts her in a unique position while floating that enables ambiguous offense-defense transitions like a dash dance but it requires hella attention to detail because she moves so little horizontally.

Puff needs development.

 

[john!]

i know this is a very "john" thing to say, but it might be useful to define what we all mean by "easy to play" before posting opinions about it. for example, i define "easiest to play" as "easiest to win with in a tournament setting", and therefore my list is the same as the tier list. but some people have different ideas about what they are trying to define and it makes things confusing sometimes.

 

[V]

Just to clarify what I meant, I said easy to win with, not easy to play with. To be even more specific, how would you rank those 8 characters in a list from easiest to make top 8 at a national level to hardest?

Actually top 8 is a little too narrow, let's make it top 32 at an Apex/EVO level tournament assuming you're skilled enough to make it that far.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you're skilled enough to make it that far, you will make it that far almost irregardless of what character you pick.

 

[V]

If you're skilled enough to make it that far, you will make it that far almost irregardless of what character you pick.

I'm sorry but I highly doubt Mango, Armada, DrPP, Hbox, and M2K could make top 32 with kirby or pichu.

 

[Xyzz]

Have you ever seen Armada's Kirby or Unknown's Pichu?

 

[V]

Have you ever seen Armada's Kirby or Unknown's Pichu?

No and there's a reason for that.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach gets worse when weird characters like Doc or Link are around because her base game vs those characters is kind of weird. Her base game's details and such change a lot across matchups because of how her movement puts her in a unique position while floating that enables ambiguous offense-defense transitions like a dash dance but it requires hella attention to detail because she moves so little horizontally.

Not to derail the current topic, but I'm really interested in this. When you say she gets worse because her base game plan vs those characters is weird, I assume you mean that it's not as effective vs them? (I'm assuming the way their projectiles combat her float has something to do with this? So maybe it's more of how effective they are vs her float, compared to other low tiers/even other high tiers?)

I often get stuck whenever I start thinking about her float as sort of an "aerial dashdance." It makes sense to me on the surface, when she moves forward while floating, she pressures offensively in a similar way to dash forward. And when she moves back, she baits/pressures defensively in a similar way to dash back. I guess you mean here that her float game changes across matchups because of the attention to detail it requires, due to her slow movement (whereas, for an example of the opposite, Marth/Fox don't have this issue because of their mobility?)

I guess I'm just looking for a bit of elaboration, if you feel like giving one.

 

[AlcoholicSemenThrower]

Roy should be in a better place >.>

 

[AlcoholicSemenThrower]

Also, Falco should be in-front of Fox.
But other than those two things, Pretty good list.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

 

[AlcoholicSemenThrower]

Mango or Armada could JV 5 someone with Kirby...

Why does everyone poop on Kirby?

He's a goon.

 

[Bones0]

 

[john!]

using friendlies to prove a point?

i expected more from you two... i think...

 

[FourStar]

lol friendlies are still better than having no evidence at all

 

[Strong Badam]

Also, Falco should be in-front of Fox.
But other than those two things, Pretty good list.

your amazing name compelled me to post in this ****ty forum for the first time in months. bravo

*reads a few posts*
yep still tons of spacie mains going around spreading the idea that if you just try really hard and get better, character choice doesn't matter. stay free melee community lmfao

 

[Deathconsciousness]

but it doesn't

 

[Divinokage]

your amazing name compelled me to post in this ****ty forum for the first time in months. bravo

*reads a few posts*
yep still tons of spacie mains going around spreading the idea that if you just try really hard and get better, character choice doesn't matter. stay free melee community lmfao

Pftt, you mean stay free Strong Bad. Go play your abomination that is P:M while thinking you are good.

 

[Bones0]

Daaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmn!

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Don't listen to Kage Strong Bad, he's just salty cuz he can't win PM tournaments anymore

 

[john!]

i was wondering when this thread would get good again

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

i was wondering when this thread would get good again

You're welcome for that. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go prepare my 2000th post.

 

[Divinokage]

Don't listen to Kage Strong Bad, he's just salty cuz he can't win PM tournaments anymore

Well if I would actually care and play, it would be another story.. but my story right now is that **** P:M.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Well if I would actually care and play, it would be another story.. but my story right now is that **** P:M.

Well, now that I know your mentality about PM I'll be prepared to beat you next time we play

 

[Divinokage]

Well, now that I know your mentality about PM I'll be prepared to beat you next time we play

Not even exaggerating, last time I played P:M was at FC Legacy. lol.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Not even exaggerating, last time I played P:M was at FC Legacy. lol.

Technically the last time you played PM was at 6-4 Matchup 25

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Pichu
Ness

Kirby

marth is pichu's best top tier match-up. It's probably -2 or some ****, marth sucks. Pichu loses like -4 and -3 to every other relevant character tho so whatever.
Ness is baller but once you work out how he moves around he has no options and ****ing sucks. He can beat Peach which is cute.
Kirby is legitimately underrated.

*reads a few posts*
yep still tons of spacie mains going around spreading the idea that if you just try really hard and get better, character choice doesn't matter. stay free melee community lmfao

salt more scrub
just because DK is awful doesn't mean every non-spacie character is awful

 

[The Business]

salt more scrub
just because DK is awful doesn't mean every non-spacie character is awful

this

 

[Purpletuce]

My official Useless Post Tier List:

1. Max
2. The Business
3. Shiny Mewtwo

Seriously, The Business, you know that you can just like a post if you don't want to say anything?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

what if he only liked half of my post

 

[The Business]

My official Useless Post Tier List:

1. Max
2. The Business
3. Shiny Mewtwo

Seriously, The Business, you know that you can just like a post if you don't want to say anything?

I'm gonna take posting tips from the yoshi player who only talks about how broken falco is?

also I rly did only like half his post.

 

[Bones0]

So many callouts. I need to see documented MMs at Apex to settle this forum salt.

 

[knightpraetor]

wow can't believe there are this many crazy people who think the bottom tier trash are actually remotely competitive against anyone decent. I could understand mid tier..but kirby ??? pichu???

and for kirby to beat a competent peach they would have to be blindfolded or unconscious. I guess I'm the rare person who doesn't believe in this low tier nonsense because i have never had the joy of playing a top pro's secondary pichu. I played PP's jiggs and mario once, but nothing lower.

whenever I hear of chu dat winning some tourney all pichu, I just shake my head in disbelief and wonder what convention was in town

also, i swear the lack of decent peach players promotes the disrespect...I hear everything from kirby to ness to link beat peach..so I have no idea how she does so well in tourney. Must be all those sheik/spacey chars covering for her. it's just a little beyond belief when people tell me that kirby can beat peach...so if they manage to outzone a char with 30% extra range using their bair...and somehow peach doesn't trade with her priority and better kill moves...

and somehow kirby penetrates peach's turnips without being opened up to nair...then I guess maybe if the peach falls asleep on the last stock then the kirby could win.

I don't find that mango match particularly impressive. his opponent was playing horrendously and in friendlies no one wants to be that guy who abuses the low tiers lack of decent approaches. In friendlies everyone goes ham on the low tier player so they won't feel as bad and can keep up... I seriously doubt that match would have looked like that with money on the line.

 

[ShroudedOne]

The only bad character you could honestly say Peach might "lose" to is Young Link. But I think she honestly beats him, too. There's no way Kirby or Ness could beat her, lol. I'm glad this thread is back to its usual shenanigans.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ness does fine against Peach, you're crazy.
He can beat her =/= has an advantage over her, mind you

And I was also taking into account the difference in experience (i.e. the Peach would have no clue what it was doing) because that IS relevant for how well a character will perform in tournament

Kirby sucks vs. Peach though lol, he sucks vs. everyone
Just not as hard as Pichu.

 

[Xyzz]

All of these characters are horrible vs Peach.

If the Peach player while falling asleep unconsciously holds on to the controller and starts techskill practice routines, he still has a decent shot.