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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

x After Dawn x

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Just because Armada and M2K are the highest levels of Marth and Peach, that doesn't mean the results of their matchups are completely attributed to character potential. -_- Each win they get over each other represents themselves, not Peach and Marth at the highest levels of play. I don't understand how people still don't understand the concept of player skill being part of results. That's not to say, however, that we should disregard these results and just assume through theorycrafting that Marth > Peach; it just means these results should be taken with a grain of salt.
 

Archangel

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Just because Armada and M2K are the highest levels of Marth and Peach, that doesn't mean the results of their matchups are completely attributed to character potential. -_- Each win they get over each other represents themselves, not Peach and Marth at the highest levels of play. I don't understand how people still don't understand the concept of player skill being part of results. That's not to say, however, that we should disregard these results and just assume through theorycrafting that Marth > Peach; it just means these results should be taken with a grain of salt.
Then every match result should be taken with a grain of salt. This community is so unwilling to flex that the tier list and match-up charts always end up years behind.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

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yeah we get that.

you think Sheik>puff and Sheik>IC's
plz read idiot.

i said sheik and ic's is even

and that jiggs doesnt counter sheik nearly as hard as people are making it out to be and it might be a very SLIGHT favor for puff.

and marth > peach
 

Archangel

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plz I'm an idiot.

i said sheik and ic's is even

and that jiggs doesnt counter sheik nearly as hard as people are making it out to be and it might be a very SLIGHT favor for puff.

and marth > peach
you made it sound like the idea of Sheik vs IC's being in IC's favor or close seem like a fallacy. At least your arguments did the way you worded them.

Same thing with Puff vs Sheik so why argue if you have no actual disagreement?

Marth>Peach is correct but alot closer than believed. At high levels I think 60-40 is too much.
 

Divinokage

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I don't know that for sure but I've seen Single IC's take sheiks on 1 on 1 and get the better of it.....so........lol
Lol, ok if you cant take 1 IC, you are horrible, sorry but.. cmon now.

That has nothing to do with any matchups. Matchups are about what tools characters have and their options vs another character, I think you strayed a bit too far here.
 

KirbyKaze

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1) your racist and you hate mexicans:awesome:

2) I don't get around as much as you do(take that however you want) so I'll concede you may know more about some of them. However Sheik>Peach and especially Marths and since Sheik went threw a kinda dead phase as well most Marth's lack the experience to even deal with Sheik. So..i'm gonna ask the court to dismiss your judgement since you'd probably beat all of then or at least most of them on the count of being better or as good and using a better character.(watching law & order).

3) If the tier list is suppose to reflect the highest level and of play and Armada and M2K are the highest level of each character....then my original point still stands.

4)I guess but if your gonna play them all then you should learn to use Marth and Peach also...do to the reasons I stated in point #2. And **** YOU that fancy **** looks amazing:cool:
1) I can't really argue against this.

2) I didn't say they were bad because of losing to me. A bunch of them were bad because they were, I dunno, bad. They didn't make it out of pools that were doable, etc. Also, if you're going to make inexperience johns, I know for fact a bunch of the Marths in those videos do not have good Peaches to regularly practice against, so the same can be applied.

3) If your point is, "Peach can beat Marth at high level" then fine. If you're arguing it's an even matchup or favourable for Peach, then no.

4) I don't have to play Marth or Peach to know somebody is mediocre. Bad habits and other things like that are good enough indicators. I'm nice, however, and often try to give people the benefit of the doubt anyway. When they additionally fail to perform in easy pools and don't even get top 48 or whatever... I dunno. Where are we drawing a line?









Ice Climbers are my worst matchup and I know nothing about their current metagame. So I'm not inclined to talk about them at all.

Puff beats Sheik by a bit because Sheik's aerial mobility sucks and she gets Rested too easily. Puff doesn't win exchanges well in the MU but the ones she does win have a reasonable likelihood of leading to Sheik exploding, which sucks. Sheik doesn't have a good threat to punish Rest lag after dying because nothing she does after respawn kills Puff unless Puff is at like 80%+ anyway (so you need to get 5-8 hits to be able to come back and kill Puff, which is balls).

Sheik gets props for having a good jab that combos to Fair and Uair at higher percents.
 

Archangel

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Lol, ok if you cant take 1 IC, you are horrible, sorry but.. cmon now.

That has nothing to do with any matchups. Matchups are about what tools characters have and their options vs another character, I think you strayed a bit too far here.
It wasn't me that was just...idk a funny example...I'm not sure but I think it was Chu dat vs Plank or Tope.

1) I can't really argue against this.

2) I didn't say they were bad because of losing to me. A bunch of them were bad because they were, I dunno, bad. They didn't make it out of pools that were doable, etc. Also, if you're going to make inexperience johns, I know for fact a bunch of the Marths in those videos do not have good Peaches to regularly practice against, so the same can be applied.

3) If your point is, "Peach can beat Marth at high level" then fine. If you're arguing it's an even matchup or favourable for Peach, then no.

4) I don't have to play Marth or Peach to know somebody is mediocre. Bad habits and other things like that are good enough indicators. I'm nice, however, and often try to give people the benefit of the doubt anyway. When they additionally fail to perform in easy pools and don't even get top 48 or whatever... I dunno. Where are we drawing a line?


1) rofl

2) good point but you could also say the peaches have little Marth experience....not sure why I'm even bringing this up.

3) nah my point is that it's not 60-40 or worse but it's very winnable if you know how to do it or you get lucky Dsmashes/Stitchfaces and ba-bombs. It's somewhere around 56-44, Close to Even on DK64 or Dreamland and 55-45 in peaches favor on Brinstar....but who doesn't ban Brinstar?

4) Not making it out of pools at 1 event isn't always the best indicator....sometimes people are playing off, or hung over, or simply just in a stacked pool at some point. Apex and Pound 5 had alot of pretty good and very good players who didn't make it to bracket. Sometimes your just unlucky. Although I'd say anyone who can make it to final round of pools and beyond is at least decent.






Ice Climbers are my worst matchup and I know nothing about their current metagame. So I'm not inclined to talk about them at all.

Puff beats Sheik by a bit because Sheik's aerial mobility sucks and she gets Rested too easily. Puff doesn't win exchanges well in the MU but the ones she does win have a reasonable likelihood of leading to Sheik exploding, which sucks. Sheik doesn't have a good threat to punish Rest lag after dying because nothing she does after respawn kills Puff unless Puff is at like 80%+ anyway (so you need to get 5-8 hits to be able to come back and kill Puff, which is balls).

Sheik gets props for having a good jab that combos to Fair and Uair at higher percents.
 

x After Dawn x

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lolol arctic warrior. hey kage is there still snow there? we still have traces of it here. it snowed yesterday too LOL, and it snowed a lot on the weekend too but nowadays it just melts within a day or so
 

Summonedfist

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speaking of canadian weather it's been full of bull**** rain and heavy winds X_X

speaking of ICs vs. sheik, I think amsah played Chu for the first time at pound and said it was definitely a new experience lol. chu is so full of tricksies
 

KirbyKaze

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4) Not making it out of pools at 1 event isn't always the best indicator....sometimes people are playing off, or hung over, or simply just in a stacked pool at some point. Apex and Pound 5 had alot of pretty good and very good players who didn't make it to bracket. Sometimes your just unlucky. Although I'd say anyone who can make it to final round of pools and beyond is at least decent.
I specified that some of them had doable pools. Also, if they can't make it out of pools and they seem bad when I play them then... no johns. Pound is like the only tournament I'd make exception for with the pools thing simply because Pound is the hardest tournament of the year (although the series is canceled now anyway).

Also, now that I'm not dead because of studying for an English exam it occurs to me you made a skill comment about me in relation to those Marths. Insinuating that any of the Marths in those videos I played against are as good as me is like not only incredibly wrong but also offensive. I'm actually not sure how to comment further on it. You actually think if I beat Niko or FullMetal it's because we're equally skilled but I'm Sheik. Like, really?

.___.
 

Divinokage

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The best is freezing rain on snow. It makes like a thin, solid layer on the snow that cracks when you touch it. Breaking it is more addictive than popping bubble wrap.
Lol, that's whats up!!! That's only one thing you can enjoy with what nature offers. =P You now understand a bit of the way of the warrior lol.
 

Archangel

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I specified that some of them had doable pools. Also, if they can't make it out of pools and they seem bad when I play them then... no johns. Pound is like the only tournament I'd make exception for with the pools thing simply because Pound is the hardest tournament of the year (although the series is canceled now anyway).

Also, now that I'm not dead because of studying for an English exam it occurs to me you made a skill comment about me in relation to those Marths. Insinuating that any of the Marths in those videos I played against are as good as me is like not only incredibly wrong but also offensive. I'm actually not sure how to comment further on it. You actually think if I beat Niko or FullMetal it's because we're equally skilled but I'm Sheik. Like, really?

.___.
nah you read that backwards. I was actually saying the opposite....at least I thought I was but I was tired when typing that so idk. Basically I was saying if you are better and using a better character then...it's more likely that you'll win.
 

KirbyKaze

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nah you read that backwards. I was actually saying the opposite....at least i thought i was but i was tired when typing that so idk. Basically i was saying if you are better and using a better character then...it's more likely that you'll win.
you said:
since you'd probably beat all of then or at least most of them on the count of being better or as good and using a better character.(watching law & order).
0123456789
 

SleepyK

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Just because Armada and M2K are the highest levels of Marth and Peach, that doesn't mean the results of their matchups are completely attributed to character potential. -_- Each win they get over each other represents themselves, not Peach and Marth at the highest levels of play. I don't understand how people still don't understand the concept of player skill being part of results. That's not to say, however, that we should disregard these results and just assume through theorycrafting that Marth > Peach; it just means these results should be taken with a grain of salt.
"Marth vs Jigglypuff? Oh, that matchup is terrible. Definitely 65-35 in Marth's favor at least. Then how do I beat Mew2King? People tend to forget that at high level play, it's more about player vs player than character matchups."

--- Hungrybox.
 

KirbyKaze

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ah I must have mistyped the hell out of that. lol. I meant you were better than or at least as good as them and using a better character. Sheik's overall better than Marth and Peach and has a winning MU over them.
You don't seem to get what I'm taking offense from, since you rewrote your thing almost word for word...

Whatever. Just keep meatridin' SHFFL Fair dash away SH-instant-DJ waveland FF Nair. Into Peach's dash attack. You're probably better at that...
 

KAOSTAR

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You don't seem to get what I'm taking offense from, since you rewrote your thing almost word for word...

Whatever. Just keep meatridin' SHFFL Fair dash away SH-instant-DJ waveland FF Nair. Into Peach's dash attack. You're probably better at that...
I think u are just reading into what spam arrow said vs what he meant.

he wasn't trying to insinuate that some how that handful of players were equally skilled with u. im pretty sure he just over generalized because he was talking about MU in a non specific way....while being a little too specific trying to make truth in as many scenarios as possible.

the or as skilled part was him not trying to pass judgement or directly making a claim for another players skill, or lack of.

u won cuz ur better lol. but IF they were as skilled as u then the initial expected outcome would be sheik edging out marth for the win.

better character also actually is MU specific, so who wins the MU.

:phone:
 

Jordaash

Smash Cadet
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TOP
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Jiggs
Peach
Marth

HIGH
Captain Knee
Ice Climbers
Ganon
Doc

MID
Samus
Pikarat
Mario

LOW
Luigi
Donkey Bong
Link
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Mewtwo

BOTTOM
Yoshi
Mr G & W
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby


It has become fairly obvious to me that this is the real tier list, if you disagree with anything please state what you disagree with and why. Thanks. :)
 

x After Dawn x

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You disrespected DK's name.

And why would you move Luigi and DK back into low tier? The whole reason why they're in middle tier in the first place is to prevent their usage in low tier tournaments >_>

You should probably also split up your top tier, that's a lot of characters mashed into one tier. I also wasn't aware that Peach is better than Marth ?_?
 

Archangel

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"Marth vs Jigglypuff? Oh, that matchup is terrible. Definitely 65-35 in Marth's favor at least. Then how do I beat Mew2King? People tend to forget that at high level play, it's more about player vs player than character matchups."

--- Hungrybox.
my problem with this is "the tier list is suppose to represent highest level of play"

then "at highest level of play the players represent themselves. Pikachu isn't good Axe is just good" for example.

it's kinda stupid.
 

SleepyK

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yeah, the real issue is that we don't have a set definition for what comprises a tier list in this game. the info in the OP was not our modus operandi.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

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i consider the tier list to be within the parameters of the current metagame what characters are objectively the best on a pound for pound basis. tournament results show overall trends and reflections of whos the best but you cant just base everything on outlier data. thats just how i view it. i guess thats not too specific tho.
 
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