Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Doser]

loling @ the comments directed at me. I'll just prove my worth on the battle field.

Either a troll or full blown autistic. Let's look at some of the seven posts he's made.

Name: Bryan "Snax/Mr.X" Taylor
Location: Mt Airy, Philadelphia, Pa
Melee/Brawl/Both: Samus (Main)
Character(s): N/A
Age: 21
Some info about you: Senior at Lincoln University majoring in Computer Science with a focus on Video Game Development. I'm a very serious Melee player looking for tournaments, or anyone that can make me better in the game. Serious players only. I also play yugiz.
ALL relevant contact info...

-Character(s): N/A
-Melee/Brawl/Both:Samus (Main)
-Age: 21

Yugiz is Yu-Gi-Oh? If so, LOL.

I also like how you are looking for "SERIOUS PLAYERS ONLY", it's obvious you only play hardcore games that are made for hardcore gamers such as yourself.

Thats what I have been doing for the last few days. Rereading these articles on wavedashing and the strategies that come along with samus. From just playing a variety of ppl I knew that there were diff strategies that came along with beating them. Marth for example slashes at my missiles thus cutting me off from using them. So yeah I know I have plenty of work to do. Also I'm trying to curb my tactics because I have a habit of doing certain moves because I always played the computer Other then that I will take all this into consideration and let you know my results.

That computer practice is going to help you prove yourself on the "battlefield", hopefully they were level 9's.

Ok sir I have a more serious question. I have encountered difficulty playing against Marth/J-Puff. The person that I play against has my strategy down pack, and I have began training to wavedash and super wavedash. Edge guarding has become a problem, because he has an automatic counter to what I do. Is there anything that I can do to actually have a real attempt at beating these characters again.

Let me guess, do you also say "for all intensive purposes" "diamond dozen" and "doggy dog world"?

You're a senior at a University you say?

 

[Divinokage]

Kage's wannabe nephew plays samus

Wannabe nephew? Good thing he doesn't exist. I only have a niece and she's 6, she already does handstands without a wall and backhand spring... Maybe she should play Sheik.

 

[Cheebs]

Woah, since when was Puff higher than Sheik?

 

[gm jack]

Woah, since when was Puff higher than Sheik?

Since puff was sheiks worst match up.

 

[VGmasta]

Wow, Why I'm I just now seeing this tier list 4 months late?

And why is Doc now ABOVE Ganon?!?

 

[Doser]

Wow, Why I'm I just now seeing this tier list 4 months late?

And why is Doc now ABOVE Ganon?!?

You see, characters that are above other characters generally mean that they are better than them.

 

[Mighty_mo76]

You see, characters that are above other characters generally mean that they are better than them.

Generally, but u rong. Sowee. (:

 

[x After Dawn x]

10/10 post against the down syndrome kid, doser

this thread is about to get very entertaining

 

[Griffard]

You see, characters that are above other characters generally mean that they are better than them.

Hey that's so mean of you! You're a real jerk, mister.

 

[King Bahamut]

Insults dont bother me honestly, but do as u wish. As for the tier list I know character consistency plays a major factor, matchups, and strategies used with each one.

 

[Divinokage]

What is character consistency? I don't think it exists, only player consistency does.

 

[Doser]

Insults dont bother me honestly, but do as u wish. As for the tier list I know character consistency plays a major factor, matchups, and strategies used with each one.

Here's the thing with those insults, they aren't just to mock you they are also a way to show you how silly you are sounding. Do you see why you shouldn't make such a sweeping claim with little to no experience with actual tournament play?

It would be like going to a group meeting where there are a lot of people who play basketball in leagues and some guy who just starts out calls their plays idiotic or stupid with no evidence what so ever. When you say stuff like this people ignore it because we have no reason to listen to you, you even openly admit to be new to the game and are in need of help. I don't understand why you believe you posses more knowledge than the collective smash community when you haven't even begun to learn your character not to mention you haven't played in a tournament.

The posts I quoted demonstrate your lack of forethought when posting. You didn't even fill out a simple form correctly, what makes you think that you can organize an abstract list that you haven't yet begun to understand? It's just childish to say "Serious players only" when you are probably the least serious player here, by all means you're pretty casual. You're just shouting out to everyone that you have no concept of what is around you here, so you get laughed at.

Hey guys I'm in 8th grade (just learning how to do geometry), and I just want to say I think it's ridiculous that you think complex analysis is a more difficult area than topology. I can see abstract algebra being higher than topology but topology is way harder than all of the other fields of mathematics. Here's my evidence, I've whooped everyone else in my math class in basic arithmetic.

Btw I'm looking to write papers and discuss proofs with other mathematicians (IF YOU ARE NOT A SERIOUS MATHEMATICIAN SUCH AS MYSELF PLEASE DO NOT EVEN BOTHER)

Relevant info:

Area of expertise: NOT APPLICABLE
Field you work in (Logic, Problem Solving,Pure Mathematics [Hint:the only options are combinations of the three choices]): I LIKE TOPOLOGY (mainly)
Age: 21

I doubt you know anything about those subjects you probably should be reading and learning more than stating unsupported and ignorant opinions

LOLING AT THE COMMENTS

 

[Beat!]

The mathematics comparison made me lol.

 

[x After Dawn x]

*chews popcorn with mouth open*

 

[King Bahamut]

What is character consistency? I don't think it exists, only player consistency does.

What I mean by "Character Consistency" is how often a character is seen at any given tournament, and where they stand at once finished. From what I can already see about the current list most of the top tier characters have been consistently used, but others not so much.

 

[CloneHat]

What I mean by "Character Consistency" is how often a character is seen at any given tournament, and where they stand at once finished. From what I can already see about the current list most of the top tier characters have been consistently used, but others not so much.

You're saying the tier list shoud be based off of character use, and that you don't think the top tier characters are frequently used?

 

[Griffard]

What I mean by "Character Consistency" is how often a character is seen at any given tournament, and where they stand at once finished. From what I can already see about the current list most of the top tier characters have been consistently used, but others not so much.

That's because they're better.





hurr durr

 

[WassupJB]

i'm seeing this new tier list pretty late too.

jiggs is not the 3rd best character in the game...i cannot believe that happened.

 

[King Bahamut]

You're saying the tier list shoud be based off of character use, and that you don't think the top tier characters are frequently used?

That's because they're better.
hurr durr

I'm not stating that the tier list should be based solely on character usage. I stated earlier that it plays a factor in the development of the tier list. As far as the characters being better yes in certain matchups. Ex: Samus being able to combo falco because of his ridiculous stun (smh), but at the same time consider the strategies that falco uses to combat Samus as well. Each character in the top tier is good in their own right because of their ability to recover, options, damage the can dish out, and how fast they can kill you. That plays a factor in the development of the list(opinion).

I believe the lower you are on the list the more likely u are to have a bad matchup (opinion). Someone mentioned player consistency earlier, but I think your getting player consistency and character consistency mixed up. I'm only talkin about how often a character is used in a tournament, not how often a player uses a character in a tournament (just to clear up the confusion).

 

[Divinokage]

It only plays a factor if people can do well with more obscure characters.. but that's extremely hard and not everyone is willing to do that because the characters sucks.

 

[Dark Hart]

yay dumb people

 

[Archangel]

This list is almost right but I have 2 stand out problems with it.
1) B tier only has 1 character in it.
2) Star Fox is still number 1


Explain?

 

[reptile247]

This list is almost right but I have 2 stand out problems with it.
1) B tier only has 1 character in it.
2) Star Fox is still number 1


Explain?

well, I think...

1) It's the only character that scored around an 8
2) he has the largest potential to beat any other character, being really fast, having lots of technical tricks, etc.

don't bash me because I'm 'new'. I just don't really post

 

[Rappster]

This list is almost right but I have 2 stand out problems with it.
1) B tier only has 1 character in it.
2) Star Fox is still number 1


Explain?

1) yeah thats wierd
2) are you protesting fox @ #1 because no fox mains kick ***?

if so, then yes, you have a point, but if we assume tier lists show how good a character can be in tournament settings (see op), fox mains often place high, and basically everyone seconds fox.

from a theory stand point, fox is easily the best character, but playing at a top level with fox is so demanding that players can't be consistent through an entire tournament

 

[Strong Badam]

i'm seeing this new tier list pretty late too.

jiggs is not the 3rd best character in the game...i cannot believe that happened.

A convincing argument.

 

[IYM!]

2) Star Fox is still number 1

Explain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDHs6UXgR8

this is the reason, Fox is the best character, is just very, very dificult to dominate, that is the reason why arent so much Foxs

i hope dont doing something wrong for posting this video




OK

the reaosn for this post is this:

Why Link is low tier?
What are the reason than keep him in low tier?


i do those question because, he is one position below the D list (D list is midlle tier? right?)
and i dont fell than Link being a low tier character, he have many options than other dont have.

any way, i am just curius to kno why he is in low tier and the reasons

thanks

 

[x After Dawn x]

he's still fair for low tier events

 

[Archangel]

1) yeah thats wierd
2) are you protesting fox @ #1 because no fox mains kick ***?

if so, then yes, you have a point, but if we assume tier lists show how good a character can be in tournament settings (see op), fox mains often place high, and basically everyone seconds fox.

from a theory stand point, fox is easily the best character, but playing at a top level with fox is so demanding that players can't be consistent through an entire tournament

So how can the tier list have any validity at all when It's purely based off of a perfect world scenarios, Tech skill vids, and his potential rather than the reality of things? If he is most likely to do well in a tournament then why is he being out placed consistently in major tournaments(minus DGDTJ Which was the first time in 3 prior years a Fox won a Major Tournament).

According to this logic say reptile247 is the best player in the world. Because a group of us get together and recognize his potential to win big tournaments all around the world so we vote on it and then it becomes true.....I just don't follow that at all.

As for the B-tier I think it should temporarily be extended to people in the B range to 9.

Also someone Mentioned Character Usage as part of the reason for this and their is potential evidence here. Lets say The amount of Link Players and the amount of Fox Players were switched around. Only a handful of Fox's and a overwhelming flood of Links for the past few years. I'm not sure Link would be in the number 1 spot but i'm sure Fox wouldn't be their either.

Rather you admit it or not it seems pretty obvious that character uses plays the biggest roll in some characters being placed too high and others too low.


All this said I will say this is probably as close to accurate as the list will get. Just tie Puff with Falco and put Fox and 3rd and you'll be spot on.

 

[Doser]

I'm not stating that the tier list should be based solely on character usage. I stated earlier that it plays a factor in the development of the tier list. As far as the characters being better yes in certain matchups. Ex: Samus being able to combo Falco because of his ridiculous stun (smh), but at the same time consider the strategies that Falco uses to combat Samus as well. Each character in the top tier is good in their own right because of their ability to recover, options, damage the can dish out, and how fast they can kill you. That plays a factor in the development of the list(opinion).

I believe the lower you are on the list the more likely u are to have a bad match-up (opinion). Someone mentioned player consistency earlier, but I think your getting player consistency and character consistency mixed up. I'm only talking about how often a character is used in a tournament, not how often a player uses a character in a tournament (just to clear up the confusion).

STOP PUTTING OPINION TAGS IN YOUR POSTS

Everything that you say is going to be an opinion unless it's very obvious. Stop insulting us by acting like we can't tell the difference, maybe you can't but for us normal functioning human beings it's rather easy. (OPINION LOL)

After trying to read your last two (poorly written) posts, I've noticed that you are actually saying nothing of value.

"...As for the tier list I know character consistency plays a major factor, match-ups, and strategies used with each one. "

Congratulations you know what makes up a tier list, what's your point? That despite all of this you think Samus is better? For what reasons? That you beat your friends in smash?

You need reasons for people to believe you, in any aspect of life you will need to do that. I have no idea how you have not learned that yet.

I'm imagining that my math analogy got you confused so let me just say, try and think before posting you're going to regret these posts so much if/once you get better at this game. (Just to clear up the confusion)

 

[King Bahamut]

I can agree with fox being number 1 considering how much demand it has on the player to effectively use him.

 

[WassupJB]

A convincing argument.

thanks, i try. (i'm being a douche)

if you're here for genesis i'm down to discuss it! seriously. hit me up.

 

[IYM!]

he's still fair for low tier events

thanks for the answere, but isnt exactly answere than i wanted

 

[Eccentricities]

I've been lurking for a few years. Made an account yesterday.

I'm not stating that the tier list should be based solely on character usage. I stated earlier that it plays a factor in the development of the tier list. As far as the characters being better yes in certain matchups. Ex: Samus being able to combo falco because of his ridiculous stun (smh), but at the same time consider the strategies that falco uses to combat Samus as well. Each character in the top tier is good in their own right because of their ability to recover, options, damage the can dish out, and how fast they can kill you. That plays a factor in the development of the list(opinion).

You're talking about matchup spreads, which do influence tier lists, but you're forgetting the biggest factor: tournament results and intricate character potential.

Also, Samus doesn't "combo Falco" at all to a degree it changes the matchup to her favour. Falco beats her at least 60:40, and has a lot more options.

I believe the lower you are on the list the more likely u are to have a bad matchup (opinion).

This is a trend, yes.

Someone mentioned player consistency earlier, but I think your getting player consistency and character consistency mixed up. I'm only talkin about how often a character is used in a tournament, not how often a player uses a character in a tournament (just to clear up the confusion).

The good characters, ones better than Samus, such as: Peach, Ice Climbers, Falco, Fox, Marth, Sheik, and Falcon, are used in tournament. We've weighed data since around 2004.

Trust us, Samus is mid tier. Player consistency is heavily irrelevant.

 

[The Good Doctor]

King Bahamut is the king of the trolls....

 

[Eccentricities]

Just sounds like a lack of understanding to me, trolls don't refute arguments in such a manner.

 

[King Bahamut]

I've been lurking for a few years. Made an account yesterday.

You're talking about matchup spreads, which do influence tier lists, but you're forgetting the biggest factor: tournament results and intricate character potential.

Also, Samus doesn't "combo Falco" at all to a degree it changes the matchup to her favour. Falco beats her at least 60:40, and has a lot more options.

This is a trend, yes.

The good characters, ones better than Samus, such as: Peach, Ice Climbers, Falco, Fox, Marth, Sheik, and Falcon, are used in tournament. We've weighed data since around 2004.

Trust us, Samus is mid tier. Player consistency is heavily irrelevant.

Just sounds like a lack of understanding to me, trolls don't refute arguments in such a manner.

I will accept the lack of understanding considering I've been able to get back into the game over the years and that I'm not knowledgeable in every field of this game. All the bashing and name calling I could care less about. I'm here to learn about the game and to understand why things are the way they are in the tournament setting of melee. I want my Samus to be the best, and I'm the last person to gas themselves up. I wanted to understand why characters were where they were on the tier list and I'm finding that answer. I have accepted the fact that Samus isnt the best, and as I said before I disagree.

I may not have explained it, but I what I was saying was in reference to tournament results. In my years on playing I havent seen Samus beaten by ice climbers in the tournament setting, but I havent been consistently watching tournament results either. I have never stated it wasn't possible for her to be beaten by these characters. I trust the research thats collected, and will continue to respect the views of the ppl on this thread.

All the name calling (trolls, nephew, whatever) wasnt even needed. I didnt understand, I will admit that I didnt understand, but seeing sensible ppl flat out make fun of me was simply absurd, disrespectful and didnt solve anything. However, I learned something so for that I commend everyone that was in the discussion. Thank you for at least teaching me something and proving me wrong.

 

[Divinokage]

I will accept the lack of understanding considering I've been able to get back into the game over the years and that I'm not knowledgeable in every field of this game. All the bashing and name calling I could care less about. I'm here to learn about the game and to understand why things are the way they are in the tournament setting of melee. I want my Samus to be the best, and I'm the last person to gas themselves up. I wanted to understand why characters were where they were on the tier list and I'm finding that answer. I have accepted the fact that Samus isnt the best, and as I said before I disagree.

I may not have explained it, but I what I was saying was in reference to tournament results. In my years on playing I havent seen Samus beaten by ice climbers in the tournament setting, but I havent been consistently watching tournament results either. I have never stated it wasn't possible for her to be beaten by these characters. I trust the research thats collected, and will continue to respect the views of the ppl on this thread.

All the name calling (trolls, nephew, whatever) wasnt even needed. I didnt understand, I will admit that I didnt understand, but seeing sensible ppl flat out make fun of me was simply absurd, disrespectful and didnt solve anything. However, I learned something so for that I commend everyone that was in the discussion. Thank you for at least teaching me something and proving me wrong.

The last line of the 1st paragraph, you disagree to what? That Samus is supposed to be the best?

The tier list is a combination of individual matchups and tournament results. Just because let's say Samus beats ICs.. doesn't mean that Samus is a better character. You have to understand that it's much harder to go all Samus in a tournament and win since you are constantly fighting bad matchups most of the time... anything can happen. Top tiers are top tiers because they are more likely to do well all the time because of their tools.

 

[x After Dawn x]

thanks for the answere, but isnt exactly answere than i wanted

Because the SBR believes that Link is generally a borderline character that could be seen as part of the lower "middle tier" or the upper "low tier." The order of the tier list is more important than the tier selection itself; in fact the tier groupings weren't created until after the actual ordering of the tier list was created. Furthermore, that tier has importance in low tier tournaments. In the past, only characters below middle tier were allowed to compete in that. Similar to what the BBR did with, I believe a tier in their previous tier list, that tier I suppose is more or less up to the TO to decide whether or not Link and YLink are "too good" for use in low tier tournaments or if they are fair. In the past, Link was generally viewed as fair in low tier tournaments but at the same time, you could say YLink and Link's recent tournament achievements have set them slightly above the rest of low tier, such as Armada's YLink 2-0'ing hungrybox. I'm not going to get into the discussion of "Oh well that's just Armada being too good, not the character itself" because that's a different can of worms that's constantly addressed and discussed in a topic like this.

If you're looking for specific metagame-related reasons as to why they were classified in that tier, then go ask the Link forums or something. Overall, it's not really the tier that they are put in that matters, but more or less their relative position to the rest of the characters on the list. Hope that helps.

 

[Youngling]

king bahumut is doc king reincarnate.

 

[IYM!]

the first part of the answere

Now i am satisfied with the answere, thanks for you time

If you're looking for specific metagame-related reasons as to why they were classified in that tier, then go ask the Link forums or something. Overall, it's not really the tier that they are put in that matters, but more or less their relative position to the rest of the characters on the list. Hope that helps.

i am going to ask to the link boards for the metagame isues ( that was the intention of my question)


i want know the reason, just for curious