Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[JPOBS]

Mewtwo > Zelda

 

[Bones0]

Am I the only one who thinks Zelda absolutely destroys Mewtwo?

Not that I've ever even seen the matchup played. I just can't imagine what Mewtwo can do to deal with toe spam.

 

[The Star King]

Not that I've ever even seen the matchup played.

This is my problem with a lot of people in this thread. You KNOW you have little experience with whatever, but you feel the need to take a stance anyways, feeling that a simplified mental envisioning of the matter is enough (it's not).

 

[Bones0]

I guess Taj, Vman, The Lake, and Cosmo are the only ones who should provide their input then since they're the only players I know who might have possibly ever played a high level Mewtwo vs. Zelda match. Until they come in and correct me, I'll keep discussing the matchup to the best of my ability, thank you very much.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Vectorman might say something, but he says he usually keeps to himself. Taj seems content to be himself. No idea on the Lake. Cosmo giving input with zelda.... lol

 

[Wake]

Am I the only one who thinks Zelda absolutely destroys Mewtwo?

Not that I've ever even seen the matchup played. I just can't imagine what Mewtwo can do to deal with toe spam.

Nah I agree with you too. The Zelda main in my state thinks it's bad for Mewtwo also.

Kirby>Bowser though.

 

[twizzlerj]

im pretty sure its pichu>kirby>bowser. Bowser is just so terrible and yea kirbykaze hit the nail on the head with the banning yoshi's story

 

[JPOBS]

how the heck does anyone think kirby > bowser?

There have been (are) relatively successful bowsers, and bowser has some neat tricks like a friggin AIR GRAB. Kirby is just so terrible and has nothing going for him.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess Taj, Vman, The Lake, and Cosmo are the only ones who should provide their input then since they're the only players I know who might have possibly ever played a high level Mewtwo vs. Zelda match. Until they come in and correct me, I'll keep discussing the matchup to the best of my ability, thank you very much.

i've played both as best in the world, as well as zelda vs mookie rah/taj, as well as mewtwo vs GA wes/mikey lenetia, who were all the other best players of those characters at the time.

only taj made match look close, and i'm not sure by how much but i think zelda wins. i actually lost as mewtwo vs mikey lenetia about half the time.

the play level for both characters has definitely regressed since then, so i'm not sure it matters for either side.

i also think that bowser is the worst. jpobs i think kirby is better from beating the bowser players with kirby lol

edit: bones, mewtwo can teleport camp realllllly well.

 

[Bones0]

So just teleport and shadow ball all match? lol Thank god I play Falco so I can just laser people to keep them right where I want them. MUAHAHA!

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

a 9 frame jump

a ****ing 9 frame jump

 

[Pink Reaper]

a 9 frame jump

a ****ing 9 frame jump

Yo, i cant even wavedash as bowser. I always hit R way too quick because im like "he's got to be off the ground by NOW right?"

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Learning to wavedash with Bowser actually makes you worse at wavedashing with every other character.

Not that there is ever a time to wavedash with Bowser.

 

[Bones0]

I don't have any problem switching between 4 frame jump chars and Bowser's... I just can't switch from ANY character to 3-frame jump chars. I have to warm up with them. :/

 

[The Star King]

I guess Taj, Vman, The Lake, and Cosmo are the only ones who should provide their input then since they're the only players I know who might have possibly ever played a high level Mewtwo vs. Zelda match.

Yes, or anyone else who has experience (Umbreon I guess). I think it's funny that your sarcasm is what makes the most sense.

Until they come in and correct me, I'll keep discussing the matchup to the best of my ability, thank you very much.

The best of your ability is worthless. I don't see why you bother.

 

[Bones0]

Go ahead and add me to your ignore list then. Apparently if you aren't the best at this game, there's no possible way you could have any insight into anything.

 

[The Star King]

No, Mr. Strawman, I'm not asking you to be the best in the game. You yourself said that you have never seen this match-up played. I don't think it's too much to ask for at least a decent amount of experience - and I never asked for top skill level. Stop distorting my point, please.

 

[Bones0]

lol WOW. I'm done with Melee Discussion. I make one brief comment about how I "imagine" an obscure low tier matchup would play out while simultaneously asking how others feel (at no point did I act like my interpretation of the matchup was law), and suddenly I'm getting harassed for having an opinion. Get of my ****ing nuts.

 

[odinNJ]

im so done with seeing posts directed at people that say "stop talking" if you dont want to have a discussion, dont, just keep your comment to yourself if all your going to say is "stop talking"

 

[Coffeeblack]

Everybody just stop talking

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby is way better vs Sheik than Bowser is FWIW.

edit: ESPECIALLY under the MBR 6-stage ruleset.

 

[choknater]

if i played the matchup i'd be the mewtwo probably

and you can bet that i'd be running away and teleporting the entire game.

 

[Wake]

Yeah I'm not really sure how else Mewtwo would play that MU.

Also, Kirby is definitely better against Sheik and probably Falco too. I see those MUs every week lol.

 

[The Star King]

lol WOW. I'm done with Melee Discussion.

Bye then!

 

[E-102 Gamma]

...Bowser... has 1 good move,...

He's got more going for him than just his 'Fortress.

Fair, Bair, Nair, Uair, Ftilt, Utilt, D- and F-smashes, back-, down-, and up-throws, and side-B are all decent moves if you know how to use them.

Not to mention the 'Fortress.

And no, I am not trying to imply that Bowser is amazingly awesome and unbeatable and stuff or anything like that. He's terrible at approaching and is thus easily camped (I know because that's what all of my Fox- and Marth-playing friends do to my Bowser). But he's not as completely useless as you seem to let on.

Btw, my secondaries are Marth and Luigi, and I'm able to wavedash as all three of these characters, given a few tries to get the hang of it. I <3 wavedashing.

Everybody just stop talking

'Kay.

 

[asianaussie]

if you know how to use them.

yaaaaaaaay

 

[The Star King]

LOL I noticed that too. Only 64 posters, man.

 

[asianaussie]

now that this thread is done people should just pick up 64

kirby is good, i promise

 

[choknater]

i think most of the good players are aware of bowser's strongest tactics

and they are still all very weak and free!! i can see him doing ok vs pichu but even then it might be tough....

 

[Twinkles]

So it's like, Bowser can do stuff but gets ***** by pretty much all the top/high tiers. Kirby can't do anything, but doesn't get ***** as hard. Interesting :0

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bowser can do Up+B, has high kill power on a few moves, and has a decent gimping game.

Kirby has much more cohesive gameplay with his traps and such. He also doesn't get ***** as hard by throws and has better defenses vs them. But his tools are weaker overall.

At least that's how it seems from playing Kirby, watching Bowser throughout the ages, etc.

Bowser probably does better vs Fox but Kirby seems better vs Sheik. Not sure how any of their other MUs really work out.

 

[Deleted member]

Bowser can do Up+B, has high kill power on a few moves, and has a decent gimping game.

Kirby has much more cohesive gameplay with his traps and such. He also doesn't get ***** as hard by throws and has better defenses vs them. But his tools are weaker overall.

At least that's how it seems from playing Kirby, watching Bowser throughout the ages, etc.

Bowser probably does better vs Fox but Kirby seems better vs Sheik. Not sure how any of their other MUs really work out.

kirby's crouch is better than bowser. how good is crouching?

last time i checked it was pretty good.

my personal favorite is kirby vs bad falcos. charge dsmash edge guard lol

 

[E-102 Gamma]

i can see him doing ok vs pichu but even then it might be tough....

Actually, the Bowser vs. Pikachu machup is fairly even (apparently), so I would assume he'd do even better against Pichu.

And yes, I have played against a Pikachu main before. Neither of us were any good at the game at the time, mind you, but still. Bowser isn't that bad.

 

[Pink Reaper]

And yes, I have played against a Pikachu main before. Neither of us were any good at the game at the time, mind you, but still.

I played against a really bad Ganon player once. I won with Kirby. Obviously we need to rethink our entire understanding of Kirby, Ganon and the Kirby/Ganon match up because of this.

 

[Wake]

Kirby/Ganon isn't that bad for Kirby.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

I played against a really bad Ganon player once. I won with Kirby. Obviously we need to rethink our entire understanding of Kirby, Ganon and the Kirby/Ganon match up because of this.

I'm not speaking entirely out of my own personal experience, though. I heard about the supposed evenness of the matchup from the matchups thread in the Bowser-specific boards.

 

[Sangoku]

yaaaaaaaay

LOL I also noticed, but I really didn't expect someone to point it out.

By the way, Kirby also has an air "grab" .

 

[Pink Reaper]

Kirby/Ganon isn't that bad for Kirby.

I agree. I like it better thank Kirby/Falcon just because of ganon's huge loss in mobility and his inability to do Throw->****(Though throw->PUNCH is basically the same thing)

 

[odinNJ]

Does Kirby's bak air beat ganons aerials? I'm not sure I have 0 experience with kirbies

 

[SleepyK]

i'd agree that kirby is better than bowser. bowser is far too slow (on the ground and with his moves in general) and lacks mobility. Kirby can at least pretend to have mobility due to his decent wavedash. kirby's aerials, while still pretty bad, are definitely easier to make "safe" than bowser's.

btw kirby also has an airgrab

bowser "does better" vs fox if they aerial his shield. shine mixups and spaced upsmashes make it risky to up-b out of shield =/
i'm no bowser expert. i'll ask dashdancedan to post