Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Max?]

Source. Now.

Spoiler

Smashboards needs better ":O" smilies...

Pretty sure that's a rumor. DJ may have used bowser in a game here and there (I wouldn't be surprised if he beat Swift's Marth in a game with Bowser for example), but he posted on FB he used Doc and Fox too.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Meh. Whatever then. Apparently Falco is this super unstoppable force that no one beats ever for some reason. Guess I'm wrong.

 

[Mahone]

I think puff beats falco

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Pretty sure that's a rumor. DJ may have used bowser in a game here and there (I wouldn't be surprised if he beat Swift's Marth in a game with Bowser for example), but he posted on FB he used Doc and Fox too.

I was there (and i am happy to say i lost to dj's fox and doc) but he did in fact use bowser for a good deal of gf's. I believe he used him for some of set one and all of set 2. Swift for some reason went sheik vs the bowser and lost. I was playing some team matches so i didnt watch the gf's that closely so i am not sure how much he used bowser

 

[-ACE-]

1 year and ny will have the best anti bowser game of any region

dat useful skillset

 

[Plushies4Ever]

And the Ice Climbers get their own tier.
*dies*

 

[Divinokage]

Pretty sure that's a rumor. DJ may have used bowser in a game here and there (I wouldn't be surprised if he beat Swift's Marth in a game with Bowser for example), but he posted on FB he used Doc and Fox too.

Awww, how boring.

 

[john!]

spacies do not lose any matchup

edit: I SEE YOU LURKING BIL

 

[Strong Badam]

fox loses to falco

 

[Bil]

spacies do not lose any matchup

edit: I SEE YOU LURKING BIL

<3 I love you too.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I think Falco can be rationally argued as going approximately even (give or take 5/100 in either direction, let's not waste time on insignificant minutiae) with Peach, Marth, Puff and Sheik. Ice Climbers and Fox have also proven significantly problematic in the past.

By relative comparison, Fox utterly ****ing dominates the match-up spread.

 

[Youngling]

I think Falco can be rationally argued as going approximately even (give or take 5/100 in either direction, let's not waste time on insignificant minutiae) with Peach, Marth, Puff and Sheik. Ice Climbers and Fox have also proven significantly problematic in the past.

By relative comparison, Fox utterly ****ing dominates the match-up spread.

ice climbers a problem for Falco? trolololololol

 

[Froggy]

I think Falco can be rationally argued as going approximately even (give or take 5/100 in either direction, let's not waste time on insignificant minutiae) with Peach, Marth, Puff and Sheik. Ice Climbers and Fox have also proven significantly problematic in the past.

By relative comparison, Fox utterly ****ing dominates the match-up spread.

Fox doesn't do any better vs Marth, Shiek or ICs. In fact more people than not will tell you Falco beats Marth while Fox goes even. Falco also beats Fox.

I know a few years ago, the match-up character would have most of Falco's matchups in amongst the top 8 as even. But that's in the past. We know him to be more dominant know, you have to let go of those outdated notions.

 

[Zoler]

Fox doesn't do any better vs Marth, Shiek or ICs. In fact more people than not will tell you Falco beats Marth while Fox goes even. Falco also beats Fox.

I know a few years ago, the match-up character would have most of Falco's matchups in amongst the top 8 as even. But that's in the past. We know him to be more dominant know, you have to let go of those outdated notions.

Uhm... fox destroys ICs while ICs falco is around even. Fox is really strong against sheik while falco vs sheik is seen by man as an even matchup.

 

[Froggy]

Uhm... fox destroys ICs while ICs falco is around even. Fox is really strong against sheik while falco vs sheik is seen by man as an even matchup.

I'd concede that Fox beats ICs harder than Falco does, but saying Falco vs ICs even is laughable. Have you seen the match played out? Falco's shine split the ICs up in someways better than Fox's does considering how far they slide. Saying the matchup is even is as outdated Ken is.

And if you go to Shiek boards they'll you that Falco is giving them just as much trouble as Fox these days. Some of the pro Shiek players(Kirbykaze sticks out in my mind) says Falco is actually the harder matchup.

 

[Zoler]

I'd concede that Fox beats ICs harder than Falco does, but saying Falco vs ICs even is laughable. Have you seen the match played out? Falco's shine split the ICs up in someways better than Fox's does considering how far they slide. Saying the matchup is even is as outdated Ken is.

And if you go to Shiek boards they'll you that Falco is giving them just as much trouble as Fox these days. Some of the pro Shiek players(Kirbykaze sticks out in my mind) says Falco is actually the harder matchup.

I know KK has a easier time vs fox, but you might wanna remember that he practices a lot with at least two really good fox players (Unknown, Raynex) and I don't think there's any falco mains that he practices with, regularly?

Also falcos shines doesn't lead to an auto nana kill a couple of moves and seconds later. OR a popo kill. Also ICs are kind of susceptible to platform camping, which fox is excellent at.

With ICs starting to utilize powershielding really well, I could see them winning the MU.

 

[Youngling]

Falco gets a shine on ICs and it's over. split up + in the air? what the **** are ICs gonna do?

 

[oliman]

late on this but...
dont use marth's matchups as an excuse for why he should be lower than peach

MUs Peach loses: ......................................MUs Marth loses:
Puff, Marth, Fox, Sheik............................. .Sheik

MUs Peach goes around even in:................MUs Marth goes around even in:
Falco, Falcon.............................................Puff, Falco, Fox, Falcon

MUs Peach wins:.......................................MUs Marth wins:
ICs.......................................................... ICs

 

[Youngling]

late on this but...
dont use marth's matchups as an excuse for why he should be lower than peach

MUs Peach loses: ......................................MUs Marth loses:
Puff, Marth, Fox, Sheik............................. .Sheik

MUs Peach goes around even in:................MUs Marth goes around even in:
Falco, Falcon.............................................Puff, Falco, Fox, Falcon

MUs Peach wins:.......................................MUs Marth wins:
ICs.......................................................... ICs

I don't know how to begin reading this post

 

[Zoler]

Falco gets a shine on ICs and it's over. split up + in the air? what the **** are ICs gonna do?

It's about 3947 times harder to hit a shine vs ICs as falco than as fox though. Fox is way faster etc etc etc. Also if you think every falco shine should be a kill you have been watching too much falco vs falcon on FD.

 

[Wake]

late on this but...
dont use marth's matchups as an excuse for why he should be lower than peach

MUs Peach loses: ......................................MUs Marth loses:
Puff, Marth, Fox, Sheik............................. .Sheik

MUs Peach goes around even in:................MUs Marth goes around even in:
Falco, Falcon.............................................Puff, Falco, Fox, Falcon

MUs Peach wins:.......................................MUs Marth wins:
ICs.......................................................... ICs

Pretty much this.

 

[john!]

late on this but...
dont use marth's matchups as an excuse for why he should be lower than peach

MUs Peach loses: ......................................MUs Marth loses:
Puff, Marth, Fox, Sheik............................. .Sheik

MUs Peach goes around even in:................MUs Marth goes around even in:
Falco, Falcon.............................................Puff, Falco, Fox, Falcon

MUs Peach wins:.......................................MUs Marth wins:
ICs.......................................................... ICs

i mostly agree, but why isn't peach in marth's "win" category? he's in her "lose" category...

 

[God with a Wavebird]

Marth's matchups are outdated and overrated. If Marth really beats/goes even with every character besides sheik, then why doesn't he do better in tournaments? And please don't say anything stupid like "No one good plays Marth"

Marth is not hard to combo, he sucks at getting back on the ground once he's been hit up high, the meta has evolved and now people don't DI poorly making Marth's combos significantly worse, he has a poor approach, poor shield pressure, and if he doesn't get a tipper opponents can live to +150% He deserves to drop in the tier list.

 

[Strong Badam]

You're an idiot if you seriously think that the skill distribution in this game doesn't favor certain characters and leaves other characters lacking.
EDIT: Oh, a Falco main. Yep.

 

[Youngling]

@oliman sorry about my earlier post. I was on my iphone and it looked really weird and I had no idea how to read it lol.

It's about 3947 times harder to hit a shine vs ICs as falco than as fox though. Fox is way faster etc etc etc. Also if you think every falco shine should be a kill you have been watching too much falco vs falcon on FD.

3947 as hard? Wow. And you listed one reason and then put etc etc? okay.

 

[Youngling]

double post my bad

 

[Bones0]

The last page and a half was probably some of the greatest ignorance I've ever seen...

 

[Twinkles]

on the tier list discussion?

naaaaaaah

 

[Warhawk]

Fox doesn't do any better vs Marth, Shiek or ICs. In fact more people than not will tell you Falco beats Marth while Fox goes even. Falco also beats Fox.

Huh? I think probably more people will say that Falco beats Marth than people will say Fox beats Marth but I also think that more people will say Falco loses to Marth than there will be people saying Fox loses to Marth. Its just very widely accepted that Marth vs Fox is very likely an even matchup. Also quite a few people still think Falco loses to Fox or that the matchup is still close enough to call even.

 

[unknown522]

I know KK has a easier time vs fox, but you might wanna remember that he practices a lot with at least two really good fox players (Unknown, Raynex) and I don't think there's any falco mains that he practices with, regularly?

Also falcos shines doesn't lead to an auto nana kill a couple of moves and seconds later. OR a popo kill. Also ICs are kind of susceptible to platform camping, which fox is excellent at.

With ICs starting to utilize powershielding really well, I could see them winning the MU.

actually, KK hasn't lost to a falco aside from pp and mango in the past like 3 years or so (aside from my falco). All his falco exp comes from myself. Like for ROM3 when he took a set off PP, he practiced against my falco for 3 weeks (like 4 days a week at least). I know that KK and PP are 1-2 in sets, since they were 1-1 at RoM3

He Has lost to a lot of foxes in the past 2 years. Most of them I don't think he should've lost to, but that's them breaks I guess. He beats me on good days I guess, and beats all of our other foxes.

Still, I think the matchup vs both spacies are even. I dunno what KK thinks. He seems to not want to argue with people, so he tells people that think that spacies beat sheik that they do, but to everyone else, he says even (I'm pretty sure he thinks they're even, but I guess he can speak for himself if he sees this post).

Edit: I think he says that sheik loses to fox sometimes if he loses to me in tourney. But then changes his mind if he beats me.......


Unrelated note but fox definitely does better than falco vs ICs. The shine is too gay in that MU.

I think falco does better vs marth (even) than fox (loses). Marth kind of shuts down and traps fox pretty easily, which results into a death combo off of 1 hit. The same combos happen to falco but falco controls the stage pretty well. He can shut down marth in the air, and we know that falco controls the ground easily already. Falco's combos are also better on marth and he can start combos way easier. Fox has the better edgeguarding though, but marth shouldn't make it back on the stage vs either character.

Eh. Summary

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

late on this but...
dont use marth's matchups as an excuse for why he should be lower than peach

MUs Peach loses: ......................................MUs Marth loses:
Puff, Marth, Fox, Sheik............................. .Sheik

MUs Peach goes around even in:................MUs Marth goes around even in:
Falco, Falcon.............................................Puff, Falco, Fox, Falcon

MUs Peach wins:.......................................MUs Marth wins:
ICs.......................................................... ICs

Don't understand the peach side and the marth side at all. Jiggs even with marth? Puff/Sheik bad match-ups for peach? Huh?

 

[Strong Badam]

....what's wrong with those notions? If anything Marth > Jiggs, not =, but = is also reasonable.

 

[Jockmaster]

The Jiggs/Marth matchup is definitely even imo. And one that I find quite enjoyable to watch.

 

[Wake]

Don't understand the peach side and the marth side at all. Jiggs even with marth? Puff/Sheik bad match-ups for peach? Huh?

Puff and Sheik are not winning MUs for Peach.

 

[knightpraetor]

while we're posting random opinions on the official random opinion without reasoning thread..i will weigh in and say that i think marth vs jiggs is even unless the marth can pivot fsmash off of fthrow reasonably consistently. back when i practiced it every day for 2 hrs for 2 weeks I was able to pivot into neutral out of dash reliably around 80% of the time...in that situation i think marth wins rather handily..

however, I quit practicing that and when I last tried using pivots again after 7-8 months of not practicing it I was down to a ridiculously low 30% success. So I don't really know how relevant marth's pivoting advantage is in real tourneys since marths cannot possibly be adequately practicing pivots and powershielding enough to maintain 90%+ accuracy on both and still manage to get sufficient real practice for tourneys as well.

Balancing tech skill practice and actual matchup practice is important but in general it's better to gain real experience

 

[-ACE-]

marth can control space well but he has to constantly get small reads vs jiggs since his moves generally have more lag and he lacks puff's obscene aerial mobility. puff is a lot better at bait and punish. it's close to even idk who wins.

 

[Deleted member]

i'm at the point where i think marth wins very slightly or it's even. both characters are playing the same game, to cut off parts of the stage to restrict movement and both have very high kill power on one another, but marth doesn't have to worry about death at every interaction like jigglypuff does. whenever the characters get close to each other, jigglypuff has to come in from "out there", but thats also where tipper destroys her at 80 on good DI

jason, when you read this, and i know you will, i think you're playing this match wrong.

 

[unknown522]

Puff and Sheik are not winning MUs for Peach.

this

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I still dont think sheik is that bad for peach, probably 55/45 just b/c of dthrow

 

[Strong Badam]

Yes, that'd be called a disadvantageous match-up.