Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[odinNJ]

^^^ sure at high levels they require different skills but regardless THEY ARE PSEUDO-CLONES

aimed at bones

 

[Bones0]

Well who cares if Timmy is playing Melee for the first time and thinks Falco's smash attacks seem the same as Fox's so they must be "clones"? Even at the most basic levels of competitive Melee, Fox and Falco are played completely differently in every facet of the game. Spacing, grab game, punishes, combos, defense, recovery, edge guarding, etc. Everything is completely different, and often polar opposites. The most obvious example is that Falco is by far the slowest character of the top tiers while Fox is second fastest only behind Falcon. Obviously they have a few things in common such as WD lengths and SH/DJ heights, but they are super small details in the grand scheme of each character's metagame.

 

[Wake]

Javi vs PP Apex 2012



Marth... no... he has very few bad MUs but he also doesnt have that many great MUs.

The only "great" MU that Peach has among the top like 8 are ICs.

 

[odinNJ]

Well who cares if Timmy is playing Melee for the first time and thinks Falco's smash attacks seem the same as Fox's so they must be "clones"? Even at the most basic levels of competitive Melee, Fox and Falco are played completely differently in every facet of the game. Spacing, grab game, punishes, combos, defense, recovery, edge guarding, etc. Everything is completely different, and often polar opposites. The most obvious example is that Falco is by far the slowest character of the top tiers while Fox is second fastest only behind Falcon. Obviously they have a few things in common such as WD lengths and SH/DJ heights, but they are super small details in the grand scheme of each character's metagame.

ok let me put it this way, who is more similar to falco, fox or puff. i didnt mean that they play similarly at high levels to the extent you are talking about.

 

[Bing]

The only "great" MU that Peach has among the top like 8 are ICs.

That was just my arguement about Marth staying high tier and not top tier.

 

[john!]

In what way are they similar? For every similarity, I can point out a hundred differences.

their nairs are similar
their bairs are similar
their utilts are similar
their ftilts are similar
their jabs are similar

good luck

 

[Wake]

Oh my god spacie utilt.

 

[unknown522]

The top 5-6 characters can definitely win a national.
maybe more.

The foxes just need to step it up.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Marth

Peach
Puff

ICs
Falcon
Doc

Samus
Pikachu

Mario
Ganon
Luigi

Y. Link
DK

Link
Yoshi

Zelda
Mewtwo
G&W
Ness

Roy
Kirby
Pichu
Bowser

is where I'm at right now. Marth, Yoshi, Luigi, and Ness' placements were the hardest for me to decide on. In fact, I wish I could leave Yoshi out of the list entirely because tbh I have no ****ing idea.

I'll probably have a drastically different opinion in a few months, but I thought I'd spur some discussion.

 

[odinNJ]

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Marth

Peach
Puff

ICs
Falcon
Doc

Samus
Pikachu

Mario
Ganon
Luigi

Y. Link
DK

Link
Yoshi

Zelda
Mewtwo
G&W
Ness

Roy
Kirby
Pichu
Bowser

is where I'm at right now. Marth, Yoshi, Luigi, and Ness' placements were the hardest for me to decide on. In fact, I wish I could leave Yoshi out of the list entirely because tbh I have no ****ing idea.

I'll probably have a drastically different opinion in a few months, but I thought I'd spur some discussion.

ness is worse, bowser is better than kirby, why is luigi so low, same with ganon

 

[ShroudedOne]

I've been struggling a lot with where I'd put Puff, to be honest, because I think she's kind of overrated, but I wasn't sure if her MUs vs Sheik and Peach should have her above or below Peach. But I think I agree with everyone up to Samus.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

ness is worse, bowser is better than kirby, why is luigi so low, same with ganon

Luigi and Ganon are in the pretty much the same place they are on the current list. Personally, I'd stick Doc/Samus/Ganon/Pika all in the same tier, although I don't know about the order.

 

[Bing]

TCB I rather liked that list to be honest, I just dont know if I agree with Pika, Ganon and the Mario bros placement.

 

[odinNJ]

Luigi and Ganon are in the pretty much the same place they are on the current list. Personally, I'd stick Doc/Samus/Ganon/Pika all in the same tier, although I don't know about the order.

i think luigi/pika/ganon are all fairly equal to be honest.

 

[Geenareeno]

Yo Puff is not 7th wtf. 3rd is good. Samus shouldn't be above Ganon. Everything else I like.

 

[Bing]

I dont think Puff should be 3rd.

Maybe like..

Fox/Falco
Fox/Falco
Sheik
Marth
Puff
Falcon
Peach

?

 

[ViperGold42]

Yo Puff is not 7th wtf. 3rd is good. Samus shouldn't be above Ganon. Everything else I like.

well the better recovery does help her a lot.

 

[Ripple]

yo what? Falcon better than Peach?!

you crazy

 

[JPOBS]

pikachu is the most overrated character in the whole game.

 

[unknown522]

Damn, my top 8 is almost the same is crimson blur.

Just peach/puff and falcon/ICs are reversed (unless wobbling were considered).

 

[odinNJ]

pikachu is the most overrated character in the whole game.

i thought pickachu was underated. whatever

 

[Wake]

I like Crimson's list.

Bing, Peach worse than Falcon? naaah

 

[ViperGold42]

pikachu is the most overrated character in the whole game.

That ain't Falco?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Quoting for truth (maybe move jiggs down 1, maybe yoshi higher, and i feel luigi is better then he is on this list but i have no valid reason to move him)

Top/s
Fox/falco
Jiggs
Sheik

High/a
Marth/peach
Falcon

Low high/b
Ic's

Mid/c
Doc
Samus
Ganon
Pika

Low mid/d
Mario
Luigi
Ylink
Dk

Low/e
Link
Yoshi

Low low/f
Zelda
Mewtwo/roy
G&w

Bottom/g
Ness
Bowser
Kirby/pichu

 

[Construct]

TCB's list is pree good. I'd put Mewtwo above Zelda, Ganon above Mario, and Bowser over kirby and Pichu. None of those are really that relevant though.

The one thing that bothers me about the tierlist is Sheik's placement, I feel that it's really inflated due to her having basically a guaranteed win over everybody below her on the current tierlist (except ICs). However, most of those characters are largely irrelevant, and she has a harder time keeping up with fox/falco/puff, whereas Marth has ehh matchups with most of the cast but very solid ones against fox/falco/puff. My two cents.

edit @ below: I'm pretty sure this is quite clear. I mostly agree with the crimson blur's list, and would suggest several small changes. I feel that Sheik has a position that is higher than she deserves. I feel this because she has very good matchups against the majority of the cast, but not the matchups that are really important. She is even at best with fox, falco, and jigglypuff, and loses to ice climbers. I feel that since marth goes even with or beats fox, falco, and jigglypuff, as well as the ice climbers, while having MUs with the rest of the cast that are not nearly as instawins as Sheik's are he should nonetheless be higher.

 

[ViperGold42]

TCB's list is pree good. I'd put Mewtwo above Zelda, Ganon above Mario, and Bowser over kirby and Pichu. None of those are really that relevant though.

The one thing that bothers me about the tierlist is Sheik's placement, I feel that it's really inflated due to her having basically a guaranteed win over everybody below her on the current tierlist (except ICs). However, most of those characters are largely irrelevant, and she has a harder time keeping up with fox/falco/puff, whereas Marth has ehh matchups with most of the cast but very solid ones against fox/falco/puff. My two cents.

To be honest I would put Roy above Dk but under Ylink, that's my opinion.

 

[odinNJ]

puff is really good

i dont understand why people think puff should be moved down

edit: what is this post above me.

1.5 edit: mahone i met not moved out of top/high tier, fifth is cool.

double edit: i guess i should post my list

S:
falco
fox

A:
sheik
puff
marth
peach

B:
Falcon
IC's

C:
Samus
Ganon
Doc
Pika
Luigi (deal with it)

D:
Mario
ylink
Link

E:
DK
Yoshi
GandW
Zelderp
Roy/m2

F:
ness
Bowser
pichu

G:
Kirby

 

[Mahone]

i remember i made a list for this thread once, and i explained my reasoning for each spot (i only did like the top 8)....

i dunno why people don't do that, seems like a no-brainer to me

puff is really good

i dont understand why people think puff should be moved down

edit: what is this post above me.

puff is really good, i think shes like 5th... is that bad? out of 26 people, 5th seems good to me...

im assuming ur talking about moving her down from 3rd or higher, but im not sure, so just lemme know

 

[Arcadia157]

i remember i made a list for this thread once, and i explained my reasoning for each spot (i only did like the top 8)....

i dunno why people don't do that, seems like a no-brainer to me

Because some people like to gloat that the sucky character they play is better than the sucky character(s) that others play.

 

[Bones0]

Falco
Peach
Sheik
Captain Falcon
Marth
Fox
Jigglypuff

Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Samus

Luigi
Mario
Pikachu



Haters gonna hate.

Oh, and whoever I was arguing with about Doc vs. Mario... I guess you changed my mind. lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you're gonna make it pseudo-results, at least put it in the right order

Peach

Puff
Falco

Marth
ICs
Sheik

Falcon
Pikachu
Fox

 

[Bones0]

Results-based tiers are pointless (see: my wall of text from a while back where I explained why I thought it was dumb).

 

[Ripple]

fox would even be below ganon.

Kage too good

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Nah kage lost to some ****ty MW fox

 

[Mahone]

if it was results based... this whole thread would just be arguing the value of certain tournaments and the emphasis on consistent placings and stuff like "if 2-5th place were all foxes and 1st was peach, which character would you rate higher"

I don't believe this is a good way of doing the tier list because the answers to these questions don't make us better at the game (although it has its place, maybe 2 seperate threads or something)

We also know that super theory bros tier lists are sorta dumb cuz its just people talking about powershielding everything and bowser being 1st or 3rd or whatever so i don't think that is good because that doesn't provide much useful discussion

The way most people look at it, where its this sorta mix of theory and tourney results, and about what is the best at top level play is really good.... IN THEORY... because this inevitably leads to people discussing matchups and that is very good and useful information and i do believe that makes us all better at melee or at least gives us new ideas and helps us learn matchups...

of course IN PRACTICE you guys just post lists without reasoning and then just argue with each other when you guys have different ideas of what a tier list should be and its all pointless but.... i forgot what my point was anyways... im out

 

[Bones0]

The problem with trying to explain my list is I have a billion little things I am justifying each decision with. I'd have to write a wall of text about each matchup within the top 8 to actually explain myself. Otherwise I'd feel like one of those scrubs that goes "Fox should be #1 cuz his usmash is really strong for KOing!"

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Kirby should be #1 cuz his usmash is really strong for KOing!

 

[unknown522]

Bones I'm interested.

If you don't feel like posting it in this thread then lemme know via pm

 

[ShroudedOne]

Captain Falcon as 4th...interesting.

Yeah, I'm interested too. I promise not to pick at meaningless details, too.

 

[Warhawk]

To be honest I would put Roy above Dk but under Ylink, that's my opinion.

Roy doesn't belong anywhere near there in my opinion and in fact I think he belongs in the bottom 5 garbage tier. I'm kinda biased against him but I really do find how crouch cancellable a lot of his moves are unappealing.