Official Link Question and Answer Thread

[Swordplay]

I think that theory of the metagame revolving around Marth is BS tbh. Marth has possibly the steepest learning curve in the game

Here are 7 characters with steeper learning curves

Link (Lots of AT's Good Luck)
Yoshi (Awesome AT's Like Dragonic Reverse)
Iceclimbers (Chaingrab anybody)
Pikachu (can you QAC everywhere?)
Toon Link (See Link)
Pokemon Trainer (Handel all 3 perfectly. Good Luck)
Diddy Kong (Learning him will Drive you Bannanas)

Even Sonic and Pit can give your claim a run for your money.

I hope I got props for the Diddy Kong pun.

Matchups don't have to be at the absolute highest level of play. Just higher levels of play.

After meta, Marth will only have 2 argueable bad matchups, Snake and ROB. Thats the least amount of any character once meta is gone.


As a Link main who put his life into spacing and zoning, marths metagame came easy to me. (Look at my sig)
I can tell you that marth does not even come close to having a steepest learning curve. His learning curve is only above average at best....

Marth will be the character to play but at least you can counter him....unlike metaknight.

 

[lilmister]

I have a problem with zair edgeguarding...
Recently I've been learning to zair edgeguard and am getting pretty good at it, but at times when edgeguarding an enemy I end up letting go of my clawshot and falling without much warning. Like for example i was fighting a fox (the same fox player in my previous post) and had the opportunity to zair edgeguard, and when I was on the process of letting the edge go and regrabbing with Z i found myself falling without much notice....it costed me one important stock! (i still won though lol)

Was it my timing with the edgeguard that my opponent pushed me off the edge? I really need to get my game up before the weekend!!!

 

[DSP]

This isn't really a question, but more on the DI and Smash DI topic. I know this may be common knowledge for some of you, but I wanted your imput.
According to http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192522 , using an aerial with the least frames while flying off the screen is the most efficient way to DI, more so than dodging. Link's aerial with the least frames is is B-air.
Do you guys smash DI with B-air when sent left or right on the screen?

Well, I smash DI instinctively with the aerial that would "point towards" the stage, if you know what I mean. It just doesn't feel right to Bair pressing the C-Stick away from the stage...
Or would that indeed help? Like, Bairing even if you're facing towards the stage?

 

[Swordplay]

SDI towards the stage when you get hit.

After the hit, rapidly tap the c-stick the other way for bair.

Combine that with regular DI and your set to live up to at least 150 if not higher

 

[Remzi]

Here are 7 characters with steeper learning curves

Link (Lots of AT's Good Luck)
Yoshi (Awesome AT's Like Dragonic Reverse)
Iceclimbers (Chaingrab anybody)
Pikachu (can you QAC everywhere?)
Toon Link (See Link)
Pokemon Trainer (Handel all 3 perfectly. Good Luck)
Diddy Kong (Learning him will Drive you Bannanas)

Even Sonic and Pit can give your claim a run for your money.

I hope I got props for the Diddy Kong pun.

Matchups don't have to be at the absolute highest level of play. Just higher levels of play.

After meta, Marth will only have 2 argueable bad matchups, Snake and ROB. Thats the least amount of any character once meta is gone.


As a Link main who put his life into spacing and zoning, marths metagame came easy to me. (Look at my sig)
I can tell you that marth does not even come close to having a steepest learning curve. His learning curve is only above average at best....

Marth will be the character to play but at least you can counter him....unlike metaknight.

Marth has 3-4 disadvantageous matchups exclusing MK. They include Snake, DK, D3, and possibly ROB.

Marth doesn't rely on ATs or Gimmicks, to use him well it takes a extremely precise spacing and reactions. More so than any other character in the game. While the characters you listed do require the player to learn a lot of AT's, they are by no means harder to master. Marth may be easier to pick up at high levels, but to play at his full potential is much more difficult than you might think.

All of the top and (at least) most of the high tiers are much easier to use than Marth. So even at high levels of play, the matchups that marth supposedly breaks even with or beats, are usually worse then they appear to be.

Besides, most players would rather not put the effort and time into marth, and would rather rely on easy to use gimmicky characters like D3, G&W, Snake, and Falco.

 

[sasook]

Links best matchups are snake DDD and somewhat marth (even though he still has a disadvantage here it is not as big as metaknight)

I can understand Snake and Marth, to an extent, but DDD? Really?

Marth doesn't rely on ATs or Gimmicks, to use him well it takes a extremely precise spacing and reactions. More so than any other character in the game. While the characters you listed do require the player to learn a lot of AT's, they are by no means harder to master. Marth may be easier to pick up at high levels, but to play at his full potential is much more difficult than you might think.

Sonic and ZSS are two characters that require extremely precise spacing as well, at least equivalent to the requirements of Marth.

And learning AT's is a pain in the neck. Those characters ARE hard to master. You said there's not a lot of players who can play with Marth at his full potential. We can say the same for the Link mains.

I'm not bagging on Marth, I don't deny that he's hard to 'play to his full potential' as you said, but I'm also saying he's not THE hardest character to master.

 

[Remzi]

I can understand Snake and Marth, to an extent, but DDD? Really?



Sonic and ZSS are two characters that require extremely precise spacing as well, at least equivalent to the requirements of Marth.

And learning AT's is a pain in the neck. Those characters ARE hard to master. You said there's not a lot of players who can play with Marth at his full potential. We can say the same for the Link mains.

I'm not bagging on Marth, I don't deny that he's hard to 'play to his full potential' as you said, but I'm also saying he's not THE hardest character to master.

I personally believe the hardest character to master would be Yoshi, followed by Marth. ZSS only has one prominent spacing tool, so I wouldn't say her spacing is as complicated or difficult as Marth. And regarding Link, no offense to the Link boards, but when discussing matchups in tourneys, low tier characters aren't taken too much into consideration. So while Yoshi and Link may be as hard if not harder to play than Marth, I'm really only comparing Marth to the other characters you'll be seeing in tourneys, which are the other tops and some highs.

 

[Deva]

aside from DDD, G&W, and snake, Marth is prolly the easiest higher tier character to use effectively lol. It's not that hard to pick up. Fair spacing, a few side-bs, u-tilt, up-b. . .

He obviously takes more than that, but honestly, of all the higher tier characters I picked up Marth was definately one of the easier ones to get good at.

 

[Ich Bin Awesome]

SDI towards the stage when you get hit.

After the hit, rapidly tap the c-stick the other way for bair.

Combine that with regular DI and your set to live up to at least 150 if not higher

When you say SDI towards the stage when you get hit, do you mean down or left/right on c-stick?

 

[Onomanic]

I have a question. Why have I reported over 4 threads over the last week and a half on the Link boards?


Real Question: What moves combo into a Craq walk ftilt? And also, I figured an extremely obvious way to space an Fsmash while power training (That's unlimited time, vs lvl 7 comp until you don't feel like playing anymore). Work's nicely. Oh and pivot slided bombs suck.

 

[Remzi]

aside from DDD, G&W, and snake, Marth is prolly the easiest higher tier character to use effectively lol. It's not that hard to pick up. Fair spacing, a few side-bs, u-tilt, up-b. . .

He obviously takes more than that, but honestly, of all the higher tier characters I picked up Marth was definately one of the easier ones to get good at.

Not true at all >_>

People who don't main Marth fail to realize how difficult it is to use him. He is definitely more difficult to use than ROB and Falco. And the only high tier character that may be harder to use would be the Ice Climbers. If you honestly think all we are about is Fair spacing and DB, then you don't know the character. I know you said it takes more, but I still don't think you truly understand how complex of a character Marth is. And even if you do learn all there is to know about him, getting really good with him is insanely hard, and takes much more time than all but a few characters.

No disrespect though, I <3 your Link

 

[sasook]

ZSS only has one prominent spacing tool, so I wouldn't say her spacing is as complicated or difficult as Marth.

lol, actually just being able to hit consistently with her moves, both ground and aerial, takes proper spacing. You'd be surprised how much focus it requires.

I know the prominent spacing tool you're talking about is side-b, but ZSS users don't spam that. It's a finisher, they're gonna leave it fresh. Therefore, they have to use the other moves. And if careless, ZSS users get punished. Bad.

Spacing with hers not as easy as you might think.

Again, I won't say Marth is incredibly easy to space with, he's not. But I really believe you're making a hyperbole out of this. You're talking as if he's nearly impossible to use.

As for the Link not in tourneys comment, *shrug*. I dunno how to reply to that.

 

[Deva]

None taken,

but I do use Marth competitively. I only use Link in tournamants cuz that's just my thing and I'm trying to prove a point, But to get good with Link I had to learn how to properly use all the other higher tier characters so I knew what to do against them at higher lvls of play. That's the thing most players forget. It's not how well you can use your character, it's how well you can play against others, and one of the best ways to do that is to know how to play all the characters you'll find yourself playing against in tournament. Even though I dont use marth in tournament, I'll use him in mms for example, something to have a competitive edge while using him.

And my statement was just from personal experience. Perhaps it's cuz I did the same with Marth in melee, making the transition easier, because when I started playing Marth in brawl, I had him down quicker than any other high-top tier character. . .except for DDD. . .since all you have to do is shield grab to cg to gimp lol. Actually now that I think about it more it prolly was because I used him in melee. The fair spacing was different, but after I got used to the different spacing he played very similar, with the addition of side-b maneuvers and his broken up-b which was a nice addition. Just little quirks that could help like improperly spaced fair to up-b on a shield since the invincibility frames prevent shield grabbing and that's what most players would go for. So yeah, maybe I'm not the best person to ask, but from personal experience, Marth was definately easier to pick up.

 

[Remzi]

lol, actually just being able to hit consistently with her moves, both ground and aerial, takes proper spacing. You'd be surprised how much focus it requires.

I know the prominent spacing tool you're talking about is side-b, but ZSS users don't spam that. It's a finisher, they're gonna leave it fresh. Therefore, they have to use the other moves. And if careless, ZSS users get punished. Bad.

Spacing with hers not as easy as you might think.

Again, I won't say Marth is incredibly easy to space with, he's not. But I really believe you're making a hyperbole out of this. You're talking as if he's nearly impossible to use.

As for the Link not in tourneys comment, *shrug*. I dunno how to reply to that.

My apologies, I don't know much about ZSS, but the ones I play seem to only really space with side- B >_>

I'm not saying Marth is nearly impossible to use, just compared to other High/Top tier characters, he is definitely among the most difficult if not the most difficult to use.

And don't take what I said about Link as an insult, Link is my secondary, and I use him a lot :D

*Edit (Deva): I see, that would make sense. Knowing how to abuse Marth's range has always been the most important factor in playing him, so if you used him in Melee the transition is significantly easier.

 

[ArdeS]

Real Question: What moves combo into a Craq walk ftilt? And also, I figured an extremely obvious way to space an Fsmash while power training (That's unlimited time, vs lvl 7 comp until you don't feel like playing anymore). Work's nicely. Oh and pivot slided bombs suck.

I usually craq walk when I'm a good distance away from the opponent. They usually don't expect an approach like that. When they're on the edge and I'm pretty far away, I craq walk and ftilt if they're still hanging there. In terms of combos though, I don't know very many. The technique gets most of its use through mindgames and spacing rather than from other attacks.
Maybe if your opponent falls on his face from a boomerang hit, you could combo it with a Craq Ftilt.


Now, about the Smash DI discussion on the last page, I never got to make a reply.
After playing some matches today on Wifi, I experimented with smash DI while being sent to the sides of the stage. I know this isn't very precise testing, but in general I was able to survive at higher percentages when using Bair instead of Fair. Yes, I am spamming my C-Stick away from the stage to Bair.
It doesn't make general sense when you think of DI, but as the thread I posted earlier explains, regaining control of your character after s/he's been sent flying is what saves you. When sent sideways, doing a Bair and immediately jumping seemed to save me the most; more than Fair ever did.
Finally, I'd like to note that when sent upwards, Link's Bair seemed less effective than his Dair, but I didn't have many chances to experiment.

Try it out for yourselves if you can. If you don't agree, it's fine. I'll stick with Bair when I'm off the stage though.

 

[Swordplay]

Real Question: What moves combo into a Craq walk ftilt? And also, I figured an extremely obvious way to space an Fsmash while power training (That's unlimited time, vs lvl 7 comp until you don't feel like playing anymore). Work's nicely. Oh and pivot slided bombs suck.

You might not think it but Zair does combo into this.

I have Zair into a craq walk (not pivot boost Craq walk is from the air pivot from ground)

Zair--->Craq--->Ftilt

This one as well

Bair--->Craq--->Ftilt (lower percents)

 

[DKKountry]

I have a question. Why have I reported over 4 threads over the last week and a half on the Link boards?

Good Question.

Expound.

 

[Onomanic]

Oh yeah, I'm probably going to be on the Sonic boards out with their spam problem for maybe the next weekend. So don't miss me. Peace.

 

[4Serial]

I think Marth is easy to pick up too lol
I don't think TL is hard to pick up at all -____________- he's a lame and boring character
why do people think diddy is hard to pick up? <_<

uhh later blu link =/

 

[Ich Bin Awesome]

Oh yeah, I'm probably going to be on the Sonic boards out with their spam problem for maybe the next weekend. So don't miss me. Peace.

lol...you make it sounds like you're taking a trip to another town. Don't forget you're suitcase. XD

 

[Swordplay]

Well Considering I main Link and IC is one of my secondaries.

Marth doesn't seem that hard to me compared to those 2 at least.

why do people think diddy is hard to pick up? <_<

Not only does he have almost as many AT's. His AT's are far harder and a much bigger part of his metagame than any other character.

 

[lilmister]

I have a question concerning a Toon Link
I have a small bro who is trying to main Toon Link at the moment...he's Ok-ish in terms of 'playing' but he doesn't really have any strategy when he plays...he LOVES to spam Tink's dair and usmash so much that it's not even funny. He runs and does a usmash (he thinks that the effect is similar to Link's DAC lol), but every now and then I get caught in it (smack my head because of it). And because it doesn't have as much knockback (esp when I'm at a low percentage), he can get a few usmashes on me then follows up into a uair. I know a simple solution would be to spot dodge or shield before he attacks and follows through but my question is directed to WHEN I get caught in his stupid usmash spamming.
What's the best solution in escaping this, as well as any attack which produces the same results? It's usually difficult to airdodge too because of my 'flying animation' *if that's a proper term (if it's DI, how should I DI because I'm not too familiar with the mechanics of it etc.)

*I still win all my brawls with him, but we 5 stock and I'm usually left with one because of screw ups like this...and I hate it when he get's that feeling that he's almost equal with me because of it (in reality he's no way near)...he just get's so cocky >*

 

[DSP]

lilmister,
I'm not too familiar with the Toon Link Matchup, but a general idea would be to DI to the sides if you're caught in those Usmashes. If your %'s are high enough, you might want to combine that with a FF and an Airdodge. If all else fails, pull a bomb, Double Jump, Dthrow (dunno how predictable your brother is...) =)

I have a question, too... The matchup I get to play the most is Link vs Marth, and I lose on a regular basis (10 stock, FD), usually the Marth has 2 lives left. I'm quite fond with pressuring him if he's hanging on the ledge, but I'd like to do something about him recovering.
In Melee, Nair was godly against Marth off-stage, but that was when Nair was still super-awesome and Marth's Dolphin Slash wasn't as powerful (and invincibility-granting) as it is today.
Dair is a nice option, but only too often destroyed by Marth's aerial mobility and side-b stalling. Then, suddenly, Dolphin Slash stagespike. =(
Any ideas? Especially since there are some people with Marth knowledge in here.
(And yes, I do zair edgehog. Often. But I'm talking about edge_guarding_ here. )

 

[HeroMystic]

@DSP: Don't forget that Gale Guarding is pretty effective against Marth due to his reliance on vertical recovery (and he has no way to stop it besides saving his 2nd jump). I've also tried this trick once and it worked for me, maybe it'll work for you: When Marth is below the ledge, throw a bomb downward. Marth will either have two choices: air dodge or use Up-B and hope for the best. If he air dodges, his chances of making it back to the stage is less likely. If he gets hit, then Link can do a d-air that can go for the kill.

Hope this helps.

 

[lilmister]

@DSP
You could always do a zair edgeguard if the Marth needs a ledge to recover. It was done once in Izaw's Art of Link vid

 

[DSP]

@HeroMystic: Yeah, I might want to try Gale Guarding, maybe that'll put him into a position from where I can edgehog him. But it's virtually impossible to really gimp him with it, since the Dolphin Slash is so freakin fast... or am I wrong?
I'll also try the bomb idea. Thanks!

@lilmister: Yeah, I zair edgehog Marth on a regular basis. I'd be screwed even more if I didn't do that. =)

 

[Swordplay]

Shoot an arrow at marth prior to him using his up special. Then follow up with a regular gimp

 

[ArdeS]

Edguarding Marth isn't easy, but it's not difficult either. For me it's about getting lucky with an arrow hit, a gale guard, or a z-dropped bomb. Those are all good, but won't work every time.
Marth's recovery is one of the easier recoveries to zair edgehog in my opinion. Just practice proper timing. Good Marth players will try to throw you off with a forward B before using Dolphin Slash, so watch out for that.

 

[Swordplay]

A boomerange might bounce them towards the stage

A bomb might bounce them up.

An arrow is the best. Use the arrow.

 

[sasook]

If your %'s are high enough, you might want to combine that with a FF and an Airdodge.

Aerials are better than airdodging. If you are sent up, DI left/right and hit down on C stick. I had a similar DI question earlier in this topic, if you go back a few pages it'll be there.

 

[DSP]

Shoot an arrow at marth prior to him using his up special. Then follow up with a regular gimp

But ... how am I supposed to reach him with an arrow down there? I mean, he's going to try to sweetspot the ledge, isn't he?

 

[sasook]

He means shoot an arrow before the Marth has time to....float?....fall?....towards underneath the stage so he can UpB.

 

[Agent Snop]

Have you try to bomb spiking marth .

 

[DSP]

He means shoot an arrow before the Marth has time to....float?....fall?....towards underneath the stage so he can UpB.

...Dammit.
Yeah, you're right. Stupid question, sorry.

 

[ArdeS]

There are no stupid questions in The Official Link Question and Answer Thread.

 

[Swordplay]

Okay..

Arrow if marth is out horizontal. This always works. He'll have to cross your line of sight somewhere down the line so take perfect aim. Force him to air dodge to give him less options.

IF YOU MISS THE ARROW

If marth is at somewhat at a higher percent and is going for a sweet spot... say 70 of above jump off and throw a bomb down. You can even follow up with an air move to create a double hazard. You can hope for a bomb stage spike or hit him with the air follow up.

There are no stupid questions in The Official Link Question and Answer Thread.

THIS X 100 I am quoting you....You earned yourself a spot in the FAQ Congrats.

 

[NintenJoe]

zomg sticky! The mods listen!

 

[SuSa]

YEAH! I got this stickied :D

or helped >.> w/e lol

 

[ArdeS]

Grats on the sticky. It's well-deserved. :D

 

[lilmister]

Woot to the stickiness! Congrats swordplay