Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

[Lord Viper]

It was 55:45 Pit :/

Are we done with the Lucas discussion yet?

☆ I thought the Pit match up was even. =P ☆

☆ I haven't played any Samus mains in a while so I don't know the match up. Though my current thought is 55/45 Kirby. ☆

 

[_clinton]

I hate fighting Kirby players with Samus

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Up+B OoS is ****. But Samus utterly fails at being able to react to running shield grabs.

Her projectiles are slow and telegraphed enough to be able to perfect shield on reaction. Samus' tend to be good at recovering, but it doesn't matter, because Kirby can kill and Samus can't. Don't put yourself in a position to get spiked, and her only kill options until like 999% are Dtilt and (fresh) Fsmash. There is no way this matchup is anything less than 60:40 in Kirby's favor.

If the Kirby is patient and just slowly approaches with perfect shields, the Samus should just get utterly wrecked.

 

[Dooms]

samus can kill with utilt too..... >_>.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Imma go with 65:35 Kirby on this, the D-air alone screws her recovery options, and if she tethers the ledge, she has a near guaranteed B-air stage spike (assuming she doesn't tether cancel). And you can actually duck under her F-smash if it's up or horizontal-angled (which are the only chances of killing anyway), so once you learn to beat campers, she's got nothing left.

On a totally different note, you could try this tactic in the matchup

Personally, I prefer that approach, but the one being discussed is probably better. Though some Samus' are REALLY good at camping. And I have nothing on campers, they're friggin' GEHY.

P.S. Falcon LULZ

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Lol, yeah, matchup information rarely translates quite so easily to actual gameplay. In practicality, you're going to end up eating dozens of homing missiles. At least if your Samus is worth his/her salt.

Camping is gay x_x

 

[kirbyfan66]

Camping may be gay but it's a great strategy. Just ask Olimar. XD

Anyway, 65:35 is pushing it WAAAY too far. 60:40 Kirby's favor is the best ratio for this, imo. Samus may not have much KO power, but remember, Kirby's very light.

Also, about her camping, being the air at all times helps greatly. I'd say stages like Delfino and RC are our best options, but that's just me.

 

[Kewkky]

I personally think the ground is safer against Samus. We can powershield, and grab her attempts at touching/punishing us. In the air, she can outrange us with both projectiles and lightning-fast zairs.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Lol, not meaning to nitpick, but if 65:35 is WAAAY too far, then pushing the ratio over by 5% shouldn't be a sufficient fix.

Also, Kirby is mid weight. And you do not want to be in the air against Samus. Like Kewkky said, Zair is too good, and airdodging is begging to eat a charge shot in your face. Maybe once you're in her face, you can space with bairs, but not approaching.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Ok, on the note of samus, and campy characters in general, is there some guide on how to beat campers? because they screw me over on a semi-regular basis

 

[A2ZOMG]

You guys are forgetting Samus has bombs. Bombs alone make shielding (or pressuring her for that matter) an incredibly complicated task against Samus, and perfect shielding alone isn't enough to just walk past her projectile barrages, since when she properly missile cancels, she doesn't have ending lag either.

Plus her Z-air CANNOT be powershielded on reaction since it's like frame 9.

 

[Triple R]

Plus her Z-air CANNOT be powershielded on reaction since it's like frame 9.

As true as it is that you cannot powershield it on reaction, it's kinda a moot point. It is very obvious when she is going to try and zair you when you are on the ground. Hmmmmm..... I wonder, is she going to zair me as she goes up or as she is coming down? I think you get my point.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

What he said. Plus, if you ever air dodge -> zair, it's so telegraphed that you can perfect shield based on prediction.

 

[Kewkky]

You guys are forgetting Samus has bombs. Bombs alone make shielding (or pressuring her for that matter) an incredibly complicated task against Samus, and perfect shielding alone isn't enough to just walk past her projectile barrages, since when she properly missile cancels, she doesn't have ending lag either.

I think you're overrating her projectiles. Putting it bluntly, they all suck pretty bad. A bunch of projectiles autocancel, and all the other projectiles compared to Samus' slow-moving amazingly-easy-to-powershield projectiles. And I already said that the bombs are no threat at all, but if they were like in Melee that they detonate on contact and Samus can act when she bounces off of the explosions, they would be incredibly useful and very bad for us.

Plus her Z-air CANNOT be powershielded on reaction since it's like frame 9.

Okay, I'm sorry, but this is too wrong. What do you call it when we powershield her zair? We're so small, she can only hit us with landing zairs... It's a very simple task pressing shield everytime she's at optimum zair range, since she can only do it to us when she's about to land. I myself powershield it EVERY SINGLE TIME NEVER MISS OR FAIL SO EASY TO DO when I fight any Samus mainer. It's too predictable, and when people can see something coming a mile away and react by pressing a single button (in this case L or R), 9 frames is plenty to react to. Now, when tougher-to-predict moves like Kirby's fsmash (12[?] frame startup) are used, since there's no real build-up to when they'll be used, we can then apply the 10-frame-to-react rule... And it's actually 12 frames per average human, not 10.

 

[Berserker.]

I have learned something new against Samus. I shall try it next time I fight her. With this knowledge, the MU will be 110:-10 in our favor.



/sarcasm

Spoiler

only replied this cuz I came in thinking someone asked a question or did a synopsis on Samus, but all I saw was "sure samus will do".

Lol, I didn't notice myself talking to myself O_o.

Okay my synopsis:
Samus' projectiles are...

slow-moving amazingly-easy-to-powershield projectiles

Her bombs are worthless. (Nothing much too say about it)

We can do lots of off-stage shenanigans to Samus like using d-air against her recovery options, b-air spiking him if she uses tether recovery and we can b-air her off-stage.

The only thing we need to watch out for his her OOS Up-B

 

[Kewkky]

Ok, on the note of samus, and campy characters in general, is there some guide on how to beat campers? because they screw me over on a semi-regular basis

Hmm, there's no guide, but there's some options you have that you should keep in mind...

1) You can either powershield, duck, jump over, or steal an enemy's projectiles and use them against them. Sure, some of these don't apply to some campers, but the rest do. Keep this in mind, it's how you're gonna get past campers as Kirby... And also keep in mind your opponents' positions! If you're jumping over TL's arrows and you're near him, you're at risk of eating some aerial. Try and stay over his projectiles, but near the ground so that you can land and punish them. Grounded punishment versus Campers is your best option, since you can use your shield to grab them if need be. This depends on the kind of camper... Some have tether grabs, others don't. For the non-tether grabs (with the exception of Snake), it's better to just hit them into the air and take the fight from there (or hit em with an aerial once you get close enough, while avoiding landing into their grabs).

2) Campers are always trying to regain space to start their camping all over again. So, what you want to do is jump into their mid/close-range and stay there, juggling them and giving them no breather (with the exception of Snake, he loves it when you're near). For non-tether campers, do the same thing, but avoid landing in front of them if they hit the ground before you do. Getting grabbed by them isn't cool, getting shieldgrabbed makes you feel even worse.

3) Your best approach against campers is to make them camp while you approach. Sounds redundant, but think about it this way... They camp at you, forcing you to approach. What do you odo? Well, obviously, you start approaching just like they want you to do, until you're at their minimum camping range and maximum non-camping range (where they can hit you with non-projectiles), so their playstyle will change. What you want to do is, before you get close enough for them to stop camping, pay close attention to how they're camping. They're vulnerable at some points while camping, and what you want to do is start running in as soon as they start to repeat their camping. If it's a falco? Run as soon as he jumps before he shoots a laser. If it's a Samus? Run as soon as she jumps, she's super slow so you have loads of time to reach her. If it's a TL? As soon as you see him jump, run in and get ready to shield his possible zair, then punish with a quick attack (preferably ftilt) (obviously Snake's a whole different story, since he's a different kind of camper... His MU discussion next time should go much more in-depth for this)... As soon as you find the moment to approach, and you start running, get ready to powershield whatever the character is bound to do to you, and GRAB/TILT TO PUNISH! Once they're in the air, attack appropriately and make sure you're never where they want you to be (a Lucario wants you directly below him, so hit him on the sides/diagonal).

4) Don't look for an inhale, campers always want you to start an inhale! Copying their power is nice, but you gotta be careful... Save your inhale for when you're SURE you're gonna get them (or mindgames), but don't just throw it out there! They'll never jump into your mouth, and they can outrange your inhale range since they're, well, campers! Concentrate on the basic Kirby stuff instead of the copying and its tactics, but keep an eye open for their vulnerabilities (if Samus upBs OOS and you shielded it, find where she's gonna land and inhale her while she falls: that's the perfect opportunity if you really want her power)!


That's the basics on how to handle campers. Each person has his own way, but this is what you NEED to know before running into campers!

 

[kirbyfan66]

What he said. That's INSANELY accurate. =P

Anyway, quick thing about Spamus, it should be obvious that not many grabs can combo well. I'm pretty sure the obvious Fthrow -> Uair works, and the Dthrow -> Utilt/Usmash MAY work, but I'm not sure.

Anyone know other working throws?

 

[Kewkky]

What he said. That's INSANELY accurate. =P

Anyway, quick thing about Spamus, it should be obvious that not many grabs can combo well. I'm pretty sure the obvious Fthrow -> Uair works, and the Dthrow -> Utilt/Usmash MAY work, but I'm not sure.

Anyone know other working throws?

Well, I dunno if it can be done on Samus since I haven't tried it in a while (no one to play with since Pound4, most people taking a Brawl break in PR), but I think we can bthrow->buffered jump->uair as well. And we can also, as always, mix in fthrow->rising fair WoP if the Samus starts trying to jump out of your fthrow combo.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Holy crap, thanks!

Geez, sauce was right, you should be in the BR instead of some of those other guys!

God I love the kirby boards

 

[Kewkky]

Lol, don't spread what people write in my visitor messages! just spread butter on it

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Lol, don't spread what people write in my visitor messages! just spread butter on it

Actually, I tried this crazy blackberry jelly on a plain doughnut. It's really good!

These are Kirby boards, anything with food is on-topic

TaterLogic=win

 

[*JuriHan*]

so what did we come to the conclusion lucas kirby was? It should be 45:55 in our favor.

 

[A1lion835]

About throw comboes, dthrow is good around 0% because we can follow up with utilt, usmash, attempted dthrow when samus lands, attempted aerial, shieldgrabbed dthrow, etc. (none are guaranteed, but here mindgames become a factor). This is especially good because Samus really doesn't have all that many options: she can attempt an aerial attack (this will probably be punished with either a utilt or shieldgrabbed dthrow), jump and/or DI away and/or airdodge away (aerial, utilt/usmash or dthrow could be used to respond), and so on. I'm not saying that all (or any) of this stuff is guaranteed, but samus is in a bad position and will likely take more than 12% from the throw.

 

[Kewkky]

so what did we come to the conclusion lucas kirby was? It should be 45:55 in our favor.

*looks at icon* By 'our' favor.......... You mean Lucas, or Kirby? Cuz I think Lucas is 55:45 with Kirby winning, and Ness is 45:55 with Kirby losing... But that's just me.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I think that's just you Kewkky. =P ☆

☆ Lucas' attack rang in the air is too short rang, as long as you stay airborne a lot, Lucas would have a problem with Kirby. Ness however has much better air attacks than Lucas. However his best finishing blows is either short range, or have a lot of start up time which shaves it for being Ness' favor. ☆

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Ness has a 55:45 positive on Kirby? may I remind you of Kirby's godly gimping ability and F-tilt ground ****? And last I checked, the MK matchup was 55:45 positive for opponent.

 

[Kewkky]

Ness has a 55:45 positive on Kirby? may I remind you of Kirby's godly gimping ability and F-tilt ground ****? And last I checked, the MK matchup was 55:45 positive for opponent.

Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of "he's probably gonna avoid attempts at gimps, and with a grab we're dead", but I really think Melee influenced my ratio a bit there... Been playing a bit of it recently, been forced to since people around me converted temporarily.

Yeah, I take the 45:55 back and change it to 55:45. We do have it easier. I dunno why I even typed that in. D:

 

[*JuriHan*]

*looks at icon* By 'our' favor.......... You mean Lucas, or Kirby? Cuz I think Lucas is 55:45 with Kirby winning, and Ness is 45:55 with Kirby losing... But that's just me.

oh lol my icon. My boyfriend mains Lucas so I put it there to remind me of him. I'm still on the Kirby side. Lucas Kirby should be 45:55 in Kirby's favor is what I meant.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

oh lol my icon. My boyfriend mains Lucas so I put it there to remind me of him. I'm still on the Kirby side. Lucas Kirby should be 45:55 in Kirby's favor is what I meant.

Yeah, the two are about the same, I mean I could point out every small nuance of the difference between Ness and Lucas and how they affect gameplay, but I'll leave that to the Ness/Lucas boards if they haven't done so already.

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

Lucas has more K.O. options than Kirby, and has an even MORE obvious attack than our fsmash, usmash. Pretty much all of his smash attacks are K.O. worthy at average percentages (At least for his fsmash), while we have to rack up damage.

On a side note, Lucas has freaky mind powers. We just suck in things.

On another side note, this is my first time on this thread, so if I'm not doing it right, let me know .

 

[Kewkky]

More KO options =/= better KO options. Ganondorf can KO with almost every attack, but that doesn't mean they're better than our options. Our kill moves are bair, fsmash, dsmash, sideB, and downB. Dair is our gimping move. We can kill off the top with uair and uthrow (at high %s). Our suicide move is inhale.

Man, if we had a reliable projectile (and not a slow-moving one, or one with a lot of start-up... Maybe one along the lines of Pit's arrow, we could have Cupid's bow or something), Kirby would be waaay better.

 

[t!MmY]

I'm under the impression that Kirby has the advantage in both the Lucas and Ness matchups. Both the Mother kids are very similar, but I find Ness easier for some reason. Even though Ness' attack seem to have better range, they're easier to SDI out of and don't have much power (except B-throw, blah).

 

[thrillagorilla]

I'm under the impression that Kirby has the advantage in both the Lucas and Ness matchups. Both the Mother kids are very similar, but I find Ness easier for some reason. Even though Ness' attack seem to have better range, they're easier to SDI out of and don't have much power (except B-throw, blah).

Its probably because you have more experience in the Ness Mu, haha.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Still, the two are nearly the same, and both are positive for us. Next MU please.

 

[Delta Z]

Yeah, how long have we been stuck on Lucas now?

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Too long.

May I recommend Dedede? Or maybe Diddy Kong?

 

[Lord Viper]

Yeah, how long have we been stuck on Lucas now?

☆ The talk was about Samus, but with the title not changed for a long time, I can't really say. OP really need to change. )= ☆

Too long.

May I recommend Dedede? Or maybe Diddy Kong?

☆ We already discussed King Dedede, Diddy Kong maybe, there has been a lot of talk about Diddy Kong around lately. ☆

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

I wanna say more things about Lucas.
Despite not brawling with him since Janurary.


Lucas has better K.O options than Kirby. His dsmash doesn't require much startup (If you catch my drift), same thing for his fsmash..Although, it's weak compared to ours. I'm not even going to talk about usmash, since we all know how THAT conversation will go >_>...

Spoiler

It's extremely laggy...but it's duration...I hate it.

I think we're tied, overall. We have better moves than Lucas, and he has more K.O moves.

 

[Sage JoWii]

I suggest revisting the Olimar match-up or how about...revisiting the Diddy Kong MU?

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ We did Olimar not too long ago.... and I was the only one that doesn't think him as a bad match up, lol. ._. ☆

☆ Diddy Kong should be next I suppose. ☆