Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ ****, this would be a match up I don't know much about despite being on the same state as one of the most well known Pikachu main. I can't help much on this match up. )= ☆
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Point still stands, he's got valid Pika experience. Stop nitpicking words, it doesn't even make his post invalid.LOL @ you thinking ESAM is the best pikachu in the nation xDDDDDD
ESAM said:Ahh kirby, the pink fluffball of doom.
THe main thing Kirby players will do at low %s is try to grab combo you. THis combo is F-throw, uair, reverse U-tilt...and idk what passed that. However, because of Pikachu's light-weight nature, it is possible to get out after the uair. If you DI with both sticks up right when they hit you (SDI), you can jump out of it. This will help TREMENDOUSLY seeing as comboing is one of the things that kirby players use to destroy other characters. FOr pikachu, you can still do basic FF Fair u-tilt to uair to whatever. So, while pikachu can get out of kirby's main comboes (Remember, you will still get hit by D-throw to utilt, and F-throw to uair, but that is it) pikachu can still combo decently well.
In this matchup, you should stay away as long as possible. Kirby has no projectile at the start of a match, and you have longer range attacks. Keep kirby at bay with your F-tilt, D-tilt, and T-jolts. The minute he gets into you, the match completely changes. Hell, if kirby gets close, try to QAC away and keep spamming. Just watch out kirby doesn't get your power, because Kirby T-jolts are more effective than pikachu's. With kirby's multiple jumps, it can be VERY irritating to get near him, and even then it is a hard fight. However, it is still much easier for pikachu to get into to kirby's spamming than it is the other way around
Once the fight is in close quarters, your best options are to SHFF fairs to u-tilts and combo him. Do not do many laggy attacks against kirby because he will definitely punish you with his plethora of strong attacks, or get you off the cliff (will elaborate on this a little later) Kirby's like using D-tilt to trip you (It's pretty fast so be watchful of it) and then they can grab you and harass you.
In the air, this matchup all depends on positioning. If you are behind kirby, you will lose, becasue kirby's bair outprioritizes nearly everything you have! If you are in front of kirby, you will most likely win since Pikachu's fair > Kirby's fair, and pikachu's Uair > Kirby's fair. If you are below kirby, be watchful of his Dair. It is a multihit attack and keeps you in stun-time for quite a while, and i don't remember whether or not the kirby can F-smash you afterwards. Kirby's will almost never use their nair, it is pretty bad (Horrible). It had decent range, but ****ty knockback, and they have much better aerials at their disposal. Also, if you are below kirby, always be watchful of his Down-B, the rock attack. It packs a punch and will kill you at around 100-110%.
Off the level, kirby and pikachu both have their fair share of tricks. He can keep you off the level with his Bair, and it can be really troublesome to get around it. Also, if he sees that you are below him, he can FF a dair to footstool, getting him a near guaranteed kill at any %s, so be afraid, be VERY afraid. Remember to not get into a pattern of your QA, or else. Thunder guarding works pretty well against Kirby, so use it when they are off the level, but don't get too predictable with it or they can just wait it out with his multiple jumps. Don't try to hit him out of his up-b, for it has lots of priority and it is extremely hard to do so. Hopefully you will get lucky and hit him with the blue part of thunder when they are off the level, killing them at 60%, but don't get used to killing them like that, its very rare.
In killing, Kirby clearly has the advantage in actual power, but pikachu in practicality. Although both are lightweight, Kirby's feet stole ganondorfs power, and make it insanely strong. F-smash will kill you at 105% or less, D-smash at about 120%, and U-smash at about 120%. Kirby also has his hammer, which when used in the air, swings twice with devastating results. Be very careful when you are at high %s pikachu's, you will need to get all the damage you can get on them. Also, bair will kill you off the level at about 100% fresh, and rock will kill you at no more than 105%. The most reliable way to get a kill on Kirby is FF fair U-tilt thunder, which will kill him at about 80% from the beginning of that little string. F-smash is very hard to hit kirby with, but since kirby has a pretty ****ty spacing game, is still pretty possible to pull of with D-tilt slides and just simple mindgames (Approaching SH Dair autocancel pull back after hitbox comes out F-smash, works alot against DC, a kirby I play against) if it does, it will kill at about the same time kirby's will (if it's sweetspotted). Nair will kill off the level at about 110%, and blue part of thunder will kill at 70%. However, Kirby's killing moves are still consistently stronger, so killing is pretty interesting.
I say this matchup is dead even or 55-45 in pikachu's favor, only because he can camp. Kirby has his advantages, and pikachu has his, and it makes for a very interesting in every aspect.
Kirby cide seems to be effective against everyone, the way I mind game with it. Inhale, jump off stage, inhale release, footstool opponent. KO! And Kirby still survives. If you Kirby cide and release with star shot, then yeah it's useless cause Pikachu's recovery is too good.
You get most Kirby cides when you KO your opponent, they get mad, and rush after you while they are in their invincibility, just linger by the edge, and try your best to mind game an inhale off stage. It's a major profit.
I agree with the summary except about Kirby having a ****ty spacing game. U may have possibly gotten this from his slow horizontal aerial movement, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's bad at spacing. Kirby's bair is one of the best poke in the game and in a pinch or in a match that u have no clue on how to play, u can put bair pressure on all day without little fear of reprecussion (from most characters anyway). OoS pika has nair or fair but that can be combatted with an utilt from Kirby. I still think that the match is slightly in pika's favor simply because of kill moves. As you stated Pika has the more practical selection. i do however find myself killing with usmash a lot more than fsmash against pika.*Agrees with everything DC said*
55/45 definitely. Getting Pikachu's power helps, but it doesn't totally shift the game. With pikachu's speed, you can easily get passed the camping from that end, and you still can't really do it the other way. Also, GL on getting Pikachu's power, its gonna be really difficult. Out of 10 matches, lets say, DC got it like once or twice. 30 stocks, 1-2 inhales...not a good %.
I (basically) wrote a guide from pikachu's standpoint a WHILE ago. Here you go:
Keep in mind i wrote this a long ****ing time ago, so if anything is out-dated/wrong, sorry...
Dsmash isn't much of an option since its so easy to DI out of, usmash is much more dangerous. Moreso saying ours are more difficult to connect with. Side B is actually incredibly hard to connect with, as is down b. Bair needs to be fresh to kill, but is still a great revenge killer. Basically our smashes are our main weapons for killing. Fsmash and usmash mostly since they trade hits with pika's approaches. Camping isn't that much of an issue, l2holdA.☆ Kill options eh. Let's see, Pikachu's best kill options to fear would be F-Smash, D-Smash, N-Air, and Down-B. Kirby's would be F-Smash, U-Smash, B-Air, Side-B, Down-B, and Kirbycide. =P ☆
☆ Yea, I don't think kill options is the reason to say it's Pikachu's advantage, it must be something else, I guess it's because Pikachu can camp. ☆
usmash kills ~100% but is more difficult to land than fsmash. Pika has a decent hyphen smash distance so its moreso used if we use a laggy move such a dsmash, and can even capitilize on a whiffed ftilt as well.☆ I see what your saying, our moves need to connect and/or trade in blows for it to connect to kill. Strange though, I never found U-Smash to be a dangerous move, I can only say I died once around 160% + or so, what percent does it normally kill? Sorry for not knowing, there's not a lot of Pikachu mains in MI except maybe two that I know. ☆
Try doing it to a DK that knows to mash jump. You will die, because DK has a guaranteed footstool out of inhale break. Check Fromundaman's thread, he checked most characters. The only reason I asked is because I didn't want to bother to look for it.Pika has the advantage, cause it's alot faster than Kirby is, and it's much harder to land a hit on Pikachu cause Kirby can't keep up with the rat in the air or on ground. So a defensive Pikachu player would always have the advantage.
ThrillaGorilla: The inhale break + footstool combo does work on all characters. You have to be mashing the jump button rapidly though even before the inhale break happens. And stages like Yoshi Island brawl, there is no way for them to DI the footstool if they inhale break right along the wall, the wall prevents them from DIing in that direction. It's the best trump card Kirby has. Learn to mind game with it to catch good players off guard.
This isn't entirely true. Basically if pika wants to tjolt camp, our jab cancels it out and pika is always at risk of trading blows when he approaches. IDK, this is a pretty even match but I still think its 55-45 Pika. The whole killing thing tips it in his favor.I said killing is in pikachu's advantage because everybody knows when a kirby is gonna go for a kill move. Pikachu has things to help land kill moves, mostly T-jolt, which can set up for a u-smash thunder which will kill around 80 before hit...
Also, speed is a big factor, and pikachu never has to approach so spacing bairs isn't all too great.
If you learn how to DI and fall correctly, and if you get the timing right for an inhale break, which isn't hard, you can inhale break + footstool every character in the game. As Kirby, you would want to DI away from your opponent while the inhale break happens, and mash on the jump button, then DI back to your opponent, and you'll get an easy footstool.Try doing it to a DK that knows to mash jump. You will die, because DK has a guaranteed footstool out of inhale break. Check Fromundaman's thread, he checked most characters. The only reason I asked is because I didn't want to bother to look for it.
Edit: And Pika is not one of them. Actually, Pika is one of the ones that can't get away if you follow the DI. Go Kirby.
Pikachu can't recover from an inhale > footstool > dair > footstool. Sometimes Kirby doesn't even get the 2nd footstool since they both die before the dair is done, if it's fastfalled accidentally, so in no way at all can Pika save himself if he falls for the appropriate method.Still though, unless the footstool outright kills pikachu, he will recover from it. The only place on FD that pika CAN'T recover from is the bottom corners of the blastzone...
Actually, Calibur, Thrilla's right... There are some characters that footstool Kirby, instead of the other way around. If you DI away from them then back onto them, they have the chance of starting their upB recoveries which will cancel any foorstools (like Lucario and DK, which I have tried against my competent friends)... And if you don't DI away, they footstool you. If it's a fast character like MK, he doesn't even have to fear the footstool, since all he has to do is uair and he's safe from anything Kirby can do after the inhale break.If you learn how to DI and fall correctly, and if you get the timing right for an inhale break, which isn't hard, you can inhale break + footstool every character in the game. As Kirby, you would want to DI away from your opponent while the inhale break happens, and mash on the jump button, then DI back to your opponent, and you'll get an easy footstool.
Agreed, *johns about being in transit since sunday morning*. 55-45 Pika sound good? Lucario it is.☆ I'm guessing it's time for another match up huh? I would say Lucario, but let's talk about him later, let's talk Sheik, there's been a few Kirby mains that don't know what to do when they fight her. Some say the match up is more like 55/45 Kirby than 60/40 Kirby. Since I have a great amount of Sheik experience this would be a plus for me. ☆
Well there're 2 lucario mains in my area and one happens to be lee martin. Besides being ***** by lee, the other player who happens to be of a more even skill level, seems to go back and forth. Really we have to be VERY PATIENT in this match up. The worst thing u wanna do is be overly aggressive. The best strat I've found is to tack on damage (not that hard despite his aura we trade a lot of hits and bair is very solid) and wait for an opening to launch a f/usmash. I like to CP a lvl with a high platform (read: battlefield) in case i rack him up a lot i can actually manage to kill with an uthrow since grabs are gonna be easier to get in this match than other kill moves. Overall just remember YOU CANNOT PUNISH FSMASH. End of story, its range is too long and we're too slow to do anything about it but pressure. A lot of time I see the classic fsmash -> roll to cover up. I like to press that to the edge and counter his incoming roll/approach. Fsmash is best for the roll and usmash is best with the approach as it trades with fair and nair. Dair will still **** anything except a spaced bair.This is not like Marth, Snake, or Ice Climbers, this is easier for you Kirbies.
I'd rate it as hard as MK, (55:45,60:40 which ever you believe it to be)
I'll post more tonight.
Lucario's usmash has an even crazier hitbox. I CANNOT believe how long that ****ing thing lasts. Even when it's disappeared completely, the hitbox is still active!note to self: cannot spot dodge fsmash lollll
Usmash is meh IMO, once you learn the timing you can always punish it. Not sure if hammer goes through or not. And you have to be pretty close to to shield and counter fsmash. Lucario's stutter step forces him back a lil bit which means you have be right in his face to actually do it. The falling bair does work pretty well however. And when you gimp with Kirby you should be in the habit of doing a footstool after the dair. If they're low enough they will die guaranteed but if not only MK, Kirby, and ROB can recover IIRC.Lucario's usmash has an even crazier hitbox. I CANNOT believe how long that ****ing thing lasts. Even when it's disappeared completely, the hitbox is still active!
Kirby gimps Lucario too well... Lucario has a harder time killing Kirby than viceversa. And if Lucario's recovering from low or from the stage's height, then it shouldn't be hard telegraphing his upB recovery and landing a dair (if he survives, jump after the dair and fastfall another dair, that should do it for him).
Meh, Lucario's aurasphere has never been a problem for me. It's too slow to actually be anything dangerous, especially with Kirby's ability to jump over the attack thanks to his multiple jumps...
Lucario's fsmash is the only dangerous thing (and his usmash, but only if you're over him), but we can counter it by landing a falling bair during the time he finishes, or shielding it AND NOT SPOTDIDGING (it's like Ness's dair... If you spotdodge it hits, if you retaliate it doesn't)... Or an ftilt, it's fast enough to hit Lucario before he finishes his fsmash.
And we can't inhale>footstool him, he footstools us.
Responses in bold.Lucario's usmash has an even crazier hitbox. I CANNOT believe how long that ****ing thing lasts. Even when it's disappeared completely, the hitbox is still active!
Speaking of this, don't try to linger high in the air without jumps, Kirbs doesn't have the best air movement [horizontal] and I've caught many non-observant kirbies with Usmash. Not something a really good kirby should fall for, but should be noted.
Kirby gimps Lucario too well... Lucario has a harder time killing Kirby than viceversa. And if Lucario's recovering from low or from the stage's height, then it shouldn't be hard telegraphing his upB recovery and landing a dair (if he survives, jump after the dair and fastfall another dair, that should do it for him).
I swear this comes up every match-up discussion. .-. I'll agree with the part that lucario is in a very bad position when below the stage, but it is very rare that you'll see a good lucario in that position. Lucario is floaty, has a stalling move (dair), and a good double jump. He really shouldn't be forced to use UpB.
Meh, Lucario's aurasphere has never been a problem for me. It's too slow to actually be anything dangerous, especially with Kirby's ability to jump over the attack thanks to his multiple jumps...
Its hard tagging people with multijumps with aurasphere, just don't do anything stupid like airdodging into the ground right in front of us and it'll be really difficult to hit you with it.
Lucario's fsmash is the only dangerous thing (and his usmash, but only if you're over him), but we can counter it by landing a falling bair during the time he finishes, or shielding it AND NOT SPOTDIDGING (it's like Ness's dair... If you spotdodge it hits, if you retaliate it doesn't)... Or an ftilt, it's fast enough to hit Lucario before he finishes his fsmash.
Honestly if your in the right space to falling bair in response to my fsmash I would rather Uptilt .-. I'm pretty sure if it connects with your shield the pushback would make ftilt impossible, at least at higher %s
And we can't inhale>footstool him, he footstools us.
This is true.