Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
☆ Like I said before, the Wario match up is most likely going to be 45/55 Wario. I would say a match up that should change for the better or worst. Unless some Kirby mains say that Kirby does better than Wario, and I would like to see if that's true since I don't see that happaning. ☆I sense that it's time to move on. Any objections?
If we're going to assume that both players know the matchup, which is what we've been doing, then we have to take into account that Ganon is going to consistently SDI the uair after fthrow (it's not hard at all). I've never seen fthrow -> fair, but I don't see it being too much of a problem IF it can't be SDI'd out of as well, especially since it doesn't lead into another grab. Dthrow -> utilt might be nasty, I'll have to check out Kirby's utilt later.
You guys can assign whatever you want to the matchup, but I honestly don't think this is bad enough to be a counterpick. I really don't feel like it should go further than 60-40 kirby.Kewkky said:
I've played his Ganon, back when my Wii still worked... And online I can't really say I accept that info, since the split-second decisions that I usually do are held back because of the lag. He can easily get a sideB on me, and I can also easily escape his chainchoke attempts due to all the lag that prevents us to react as soon as we should.
I was saying that not because I've played him, but because he plays both characters. Its the same principal as asking me about the DK vs. Kirby MU. I'm just looking at the tools that the characters have, looking at the evidences and making a judgment call. Fro would probably do the same thing, but I'll leave it up to him to answer that.
☆ I guess we can move on since most people agree on 60/40 Kirby. And I think the Luigi match up is 45/55 Kirby. ☆Sounds good.
I have a friend who is the best kirby ever and has the most insane comboes, but none of them work against luigi with his nair. He comments to me after the matches "my offense is completely reduced to bairs against luigi" Aside of that, I think kirby has the advantage in this matchup if he starts thinking and throws a lot of fsmashes out of the blue. If the kirby has good enough timing, he can completely gimp luigi with one of like 4 options - dair, rock being the best.
That's why I hate fighting Luigi. He can just break out of a combo with a nair, and I'm reduced to crappy bair spacing and grabs, no combos. He can combo you (with the 2-hit combos he does thanks to his aerial movement), but you can't combo him.
Yes or you can just DI backwards.
I agree, Nair beats most of our aerials and grab combos are ineffective.
Just dair his downB, sideB or upB. As long as you keep your cool and don't just jump out there and dair a random area and risk missing, you have that stock in the bag if Luigi's offstage.
Just letting you know, majority of the matchup is ONSTAGE, not that l'm excluding offstage, but just saying onstage will matter more.
Wat. Ftilt our Jab1? wat?
Predictable =/= avoidable. I can predict DDD's grabs and Snake's ftilt, but that doesn't mean I won't be hit by them enough times to be at a disadvantaged position.
Luigi and Mario are seriously even MUs for Kirby, I'm 100% sure about it. The battle might be on-stage for the most, but one of Kirby's fortés is getting the opponents offstage, high or low. Kirby can excel in more situations than Luigi can, like let's see... When both are offstage (Kirby has more aerial dominance), when both have high % (Kirby's bair and fsmash can kill, whereas Luigi only has fsmash), when the opponent is landing (fsmash has a long-lasting hitbox, enough to punish airdodge > land, or any aerial used when landing)... And let's not forget Kirby has better aerial AND ground movement than Luigi... His fireballs are a pain, though. Luckily, he has to get close sooner or later, and we can inhale them for projectiles of our own, and with our multiple jumps, we can camp with them better than Luigi can.
It works, Luigi slides too far back if he shields to be able to do anything. And powershielding that is so hard... But it usually just ends up with Luigi shielding and sliding away, and no one getting hurt.
He nairs us before we can uair, if I remember correctly. It's a much better idea to dthrow>utilt>bair, the hitstun allows us to.
☆ You can use his Fireballs to pressure, and screw up his movements to get your extra attack in. Luigi Cyclone is able to stop a Fireball if done at the right moment, (start up), but 75% of the time it would automatically stop, or he would just get damage and stop spinning. And yes, attacking Luigi from the sides is key on this match up due to most of Luigi's attacks that lack range, below and above would depend on what attack he's done, or is about to do. Attacking him from above is safer than below. ☆
I don't know why but i laughed. I know what im not doing against a Luigi lol.
Yeah... My MK-maining friend LuigiMAX uses a very good Luigi, I learned a lot of this MU a long time ago thanks to him. I know what to watch out for if I ever meet Boss in a tourney bracket...
That post is fairly old, so there might be new stuff, I don't know.Pikachu
Bzzzzt! One jolt, two jolt
Yellow jolt, blue jolt!
It's shocking what I can do!
B - Thunder Jolt
Now this Copy Ability can change the Pikachu matchup in Kirby's favor. It's actually REALLY good. The way it works is that Kirby shoots a bolt of electricity that crosses surfaces like a slinky. The Pikachu boards have quite a few uses for this technique, some weird, some just plain cool! I'll paste all of them. Now, Thunderjolt is an easily spammable move. It can do 9% if you make the ball hit in midair, or just are close enough to make the electricity never touch the ground. Otherwise, this move will do 6%. It's really fast, can force approaches, rack up damage and restore other moves. Also, with Kirby's multiple jumps, you can safely spam it from midair. You can perform a rising Thunderjolt by doing a full hop, then at the peak of the jump, jump again and press B. You lose no height in the performing of this technique, and it is very useful. You can keep doing this until your jumps run out then land, rinse, and repeat. You can also DI horizontally during this. Thunderjolt is excellent for spacing, approaches, stage control, getting safely back to the ledge, attacking those trying to recover, messing up someone's flow, pressuring, and much much more. It activates a bit earlier than 19 frames, I believe. It can flow into a Final Cutter, F-Smash, or possibly a D-Smash. This move is truly a beauty for chaining. As with Mario's fireball, staling it is not a concern, and allowing all of Kirby's moves to be fresh is just an added bonus. It goes a pretty far distance across the stage too. Excellent for cruel mindgames, forcing the opponent into doing something that they would regret. It can travel around a small platform multiple times, giving you that space as your own domain to spam more jolts.
Techniques Pikachu AND Kirby Can Perform Include:
(Replaced Pikachu with Kirby. Credit to the Pikachu boards' "Silverspark")
1) Pivoted Thunderjolt
Version A
a) Flick the control stick left or right (Kirby should dash then stop) then do a reverse Thunderjolt
Version B
a) Dash in one direction for awhile, then do a reverse thunderjolt on the ground. Kirby should immediately face the other way and do a Thunderjolt. (This may require practice)
2) Ledge Jolting
-I'm going to call the trajectory that the jolt makes as it goes from the top of the ledge to the bottom the Circle.
a) 1st type: Extended Circle - this one has the most range and looks like a full circle when it goes over the ledge
b) 2nd type: Regular Circle - this one has medium range and doesn't go over the ledge as far as the extended Circle.
c) 3rd type: Tighter Circle - this one has the shortest range. The Circle can be seen moreso on the stage than over the ledge. The Thunder Jolt should look more like a line than a Circle as it crosses the ledge.
d) 4th type: Thunder Ball - if you stand at the edge and fire a Thunder Jolt, a ball of lightning will come out that will have a diagonally-downward trajectory
3) Double Circle Jolt
a) To do this, you're going to need good positioning. I tested this on Battlefield, and, well, I'll describe to you where I did it:
b) I did it on the ground, facing the left. It was 1 baby step to the left of the bluish-purplish glowing circle (right outside of it). If you were Pikachu, his tail should be hanging in between the house-looking rock structure in background.
c) Spam a few jolts until you get it right. If done correctly, the Thunder Jolt will actually circle the ledge twice in nearly same spot before going down to the bottom of the stage.
d) It can be done on FD if you spam jolt in between the 2 arrows while facing the ledge.
4) Hanging Jolt
a) Pick a stage with a platform that moves sideways (for this example, pick Smashville)
b) Jump on top of the platform, and move slightly away from the edge (enough to where if you do a thunderjolt, it won't fly off of the platform in the form of a ball. The thunderjolt should land on the moving platform and end as soon as it touches the bottom.
c) As the platform moves in one direction (for example, to the right), face the left, and spam thunderjolt. If done correctly, instead of going touching and along the platform, the thunderjolt will make a circle in mid-air.
d) It's most effective when the platform has gained the most momentum (near the middle of the stage)
5) Ball Lightning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XjPO5GDrJI
This Copy Ability is simply beautiful.
Against Pikachu
Pikachu can force us to approach with his Thunderjolts, then Quick Attack Cancel as soon as we get in range to punish us for getting in range. However, upon receiving this power, the matchup changes. No longer will we have to approach. There are two reasons for this. One, we can safely spam them in mid-air. Two, our jolts are actually faster than Pikachu's. And his unique tricks with Thunder Jolt? Unique no more. A Pikachu's better matchups generally allow him to pressure the opponent into approaching or screwing up. It's an excellent move. But with this, we force the Pikachu to approach us. No doubt a Pikachu will attempt to stay out of Swallow range. Pikachu's aren't comfortable with approaching due to the very nature of their approaching options. But now we can punish them for approaching with a wide variety of moves. Many Pikachu's will expect their power to be taken, because it's so great. Watch yourself. And remember, for any of Kirby's Copy Abilities, just because you have the power doesn't mean you should use it unwisely. Go for a shocking comeback, and thread 3000 volts down Pikachu's spine. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Bzzzt, Crackle, Pop, Your Enemies! (Last sentence to be read in the tone of "Snap, Crackle, Pop, Rice Krispies!")
