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[L__]

were you playing fox or falco?

I'm sure if you CC falco's shine you just fall down

Fox...

otherwise I wouldn't have asked the question.

Anyways, thanks Magus for the answer.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I am wondering if there is a ranking of difficulty of mastering characters. I have heard that mastering Fox is one of the hardest. I am looking to main a character that I can use well without having to master or know top pro strategies for. I play competitively amongst my friends but they aren't anywhere near pros.

 

[halcyon.days]

I am wondering if there is a ranking of difficulty of mastering characters. I have heard that mastering Fox is one of the hardest. I am looking to main a character that I can use well without having to master or know top pro strategies for. I play competitively amongst my friends but they aren't anywhere near pros.

Fox and Falco are harder due to the technical aspect of their part, and then you need to be consistent on top of that.

I would say Marth or Sheik. Since it's just versus your friends. Marth you need some spacing and pretty much anything Sheik does combos decently. (ie. ftilt fair, etc. etc.)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Falco is probably the easiest character if you can get down some basic technical stuff.

Sheik is the easiest if you don't.

Marth is easy until they learn how to shield grab, then you have to learn to space properly and after that its just perfecting your spacing.

Fox is the easiest if you spend the time to get your tech skill down.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Fox and Falco are harder due to the technical aspect of their part, and then you need to be consistent on top of that.

I would say Marth or Sheik. Since it's just versus your friends. Marth you need some spacing and pretty much anything Sheik does combos decently. (ie. ftilt fair, etc. etc.)

Are there any 64 characters similar to Marth? (trying to play a little before i go home for break)

 

[Pi]

Are there any 64 characters similar to Marth? (trying to play a little before i go home for break)

Not really...

 

[EC_Joey]

Are there any 64 characters similar to Marth? (trying to play a little before i go home for break)

You can't really compare 64 and Melee characters at all. It's just too different.

 

[TresChikon]

Are there any 64 characters similar to Marth? (trying to play a little before i go home for break)

Well, Ken Combo did originate from Falcon from SSB64...

 

[halcyon.days]

So I can pivot fsmash (and sometimes dsmash, but that's more of a fluke) a bit more than 50% of the time I try.

Otherwise, I just do an empty pivot (just do the standing animation, but turn around). When I pivot I just press the c-stick direction when I press the control stick to dash dance. Why does this happen?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if you pivot but press cstick too early you wont fsmash.

i do my pivot fsmashes with A, its basically the same timing as pivot grab. If you mess up, though, you end up dash attacking the other way.

 

[Stev]

So I'm trying to work on my tech skill. I've noticed that I have issues l canceling against shields some times. Is the timing the same for a shield than if you hit them normally? Or does it vary since the size of the shield varies?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No the timing for shield is different vs hit the opponent.

 

[Pi]

No the timing for shield is different vs hit the opponent.

I don't know if the actual time it takes is different
but the shield is shaped differently
so that could throw off your timing
I heard some where about angling your shield up to throw off the timing

 

[DtJ Jungle]

....either way, you have to time it accordingly...

 

[Tanman2333]

I need help wavedashing into a grab all at once, like the pros do it. It seems that they are in the grabbing motion while wavedashing. How do you do that, exactly like what buttons do yo press and how fast do you ave to do the motion?

 

[Vro]

Jump, air dodge, continue to hold shield, press A.

 

[Tanman2333]

No, I do that but for some reason the shield comes out first, I want to do it so I see no shield, All in one motion,

 

[DtJ Jungle]

go faster. thats it.

 

[`DNS`]

I need help wavedashing into a grab all at once, like the pros do it. It seems that they are in the grabbing motion while wavedashing. How do you do that, exactly like what buttons do yo press and how fast do you ave to do the motion?

^ they answered it already but

try it with WEEGEE since his WD goes so long

 

[Tanman2333]

How often should I use Jump cancel grab compared to wavedash grab?

 

[`DNS`]

jc grab when you're running/dashing
WD grab idk.. when you wd and want to grab when they're close
it's really character specific
with fox wd grab after a shine hits on certain characters like falcon, but when it hits marth you have to wd dash jc grab

 

[Tanman2333]

Oh okay I am talking about falcon thanks

 

[EC_Joey]

Falcon's grab range isn't very good compared to other characters, but he overcomes this by having a ridiculous run speed. This is why his JC grab is so important to his game. There aren't many situations where you will be using wavedash to grab since it doesn't have much range, and his wavedash is a lot slower than his dash.

 

[X1-12]

okay so when you do an aerial on a sheild, you get shieldstun? right which means you like hang in the air for a bit longer than you normally would, this is why pillaring a sheild with fox/falco is not the same timing as just standing there on your own doing shine-> shffl dair -> shine and so on, okay? that like lag before you land is called sheildstun right? please correct me if i'm wrong



and also do all moves get affected by shieldstun? cause I've been learning to multi-shine and if the timing is gonna be different does that mean i've totally wasted all that time learning to multi-shine? which leads onto my next question... is there any use multi-shining other than shield pressure (as falco)

EDIT: sorry for writing an essay, but i'm also now beginning to think that shieldstuf is what the shielder gets when he is hit

 

[Lovage]

the stun the attacker gets from hitting a shield isn't usually called shield stun, most people associate shield stun with the lag the person getting hit gets.

yes you will have to learn a different timing for multishines without hitting anyone and multishines while hitting someone

multishining (more than 2 shines) isn't that good except for shield pressure and only if you're really good with it.

 

[X1-12]

the stun the attacker gets from hitting a shield isn't usually called shield stun, most people associate shield stun with the lag the person getting hit gets.

is there a name for the 'stun' a person gets when they attack a sheild?

 

[Lovage]

not really, that's just how attacks work

you could call it attacking stun if u want, that's what ssb64 players call it sometimes (because attacking stun works different in the US and JP versions of that game)

 

[ETWIST51294]

not really, that's just how attacks work

you could call it attacking stun if u want, that's what ssb64 players call it sometimes (because attacking stun works different in the US and JP versions of that game)

whats the difference?

 

[Lovage]

in the japanese version there's more stun for the attacking player

i don't know how this works or how it affects gameplay, but thats what isai said

 

[Proverbs]

How often should I use Jump cancel grab compared to wavedash grab?

Figure it out on your own. Seriously. See how people use JC grab and wavedash grab with Falcon and see how you can incorporate it into your game. Maybe you'll end up thinking wavedash grab is useless with Falcon. Maybe you'll end up thinking that it's really good and people don't use it enough. There's no guaranteed answer. It's all about how you choose to play. Personally, I never wavedash grab with Falcon. I just haven't found a use for it yet that I can practically apply. It might be really good. It might make my out of shield game 10x better. But it also might not.

Bottom line is that you need to mature as a player to know that at a certain point it's not about what other people think and that your own personal opinion does hold weight. Sometimes I do things that are downright stupid and unconventional to see if I can figure out practical use. I probably Falcon Kick more than the vast majority of Falcons, but after a while I'm seeing what uses I can get out of it. I'm not convinced it's only for recovery. In fact, sometimes I think it's a really good option. But no one else uses it. In fact, if you ask on the boards, people would probably tell you to only use it for recovery. So remember that people's opinions aren't everything. Just experiment and see what works.

 

[Proverbs]

So I'm trying to work on my tech skill. I've noticed that I have issues l canceling against shields some times. Is the timing the same for a shield than if you hit them normally? Or does it vary since the size of the shield varies?

Shield makes fast falling different, which in turn affects when you're pressing L and whether or not that'll l-cancel. The following slow you down differently:

Not hitting anything
Hitting someone
Hitting someone's shield
Hitting someone who's invincible

They all have different effects on L-cancelling. I don't believe angling the shield would have any affect other than you would have to fast-fall either earlier or later, depending on how they angle it. So yes, it messes with the timing of the fast-fall. But you always press L within 6 frames of hitting the ground--the only thing that can be affected is when you get within that window. I suggest practicing it until you get a feel for all four, but honestly, at a certain point it's just about having the reaction time to know when you can fast-fall. That allows you to adapt to different circumstances a good deal more. But practicing these four as the most basic situations you'll encounter is still recommended.

Edit: Whoops, I spaced out and double-posted XD

 

[Vro]

Hitting someone's shield
Hitting someone who's invincible

These are the same.

 

[Proverbs]

Unless you've got frame data, I'd disagree. A lot of people say that, but I've heard otherwise. I tested it myself, and I do feel a noticeable difference.

 

[Tatzelwurm136]

isn't hitting someone, hitting a shield, and hitting invincibility all the same hitlag? if you rising nair, ff, lcancel on all 3 it should be the same timings.


edit- with fox

 

[2.72]

I don't think so. They all feel different to me. If my impression's correct, Proverbs ordered them from lowest to highest hitlag.

Because nair has very little hitlag it's hard to tell. Use Ganondorf's dair or maybe Falcon's knee. Something with a lot of hitlag anyway, and it should be more obvious.

 

[Tatzelwurm136]

it depends on where the nair hits, really... if you do a nair on a person it might hit higher than if you did it on a shield causing the ff to be delayed and thus the timing would be different... but i'm pretty sure the hitlag from the move itself is constant regardless of what it hits...

 

[Pi]

it depends on where the nair hits, really... if you do a nair on a person it might hit higher than if you did it on a shield causing the ff to be delayed and thus the timing would be different... but i'm pretty sure the hitlag from the move itself is constant regardless of what it hits...

Basically what my thoughts are.
I generally always practice on a stationary bowser with handicap and damage ratio when I'm trying to learn timings for stuff and don't have any problems when I attack a shield/invincible opponent in a match because of it.

 

[Pilot]

Hey got a quick question...how can i practice ledge teching by myself? I've heard Motion Sensor Bombs on the edge but I've been trying this and can't seem to get any effect from it. Would anyone be able to explain Ledge Teching a little more in depth than the Melee Term Guide did?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i didn't do that great of a job with this video, but it should contain enough examples and explanation. if you have more questions you can PM or IM me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWlGlf_tuKU

 

[X1-12]

if you wan't to practise it in match type situation try against LVL 9 ness's if you just drop and up+B over and over they tend to smash you like 1 in 4 times? or just try it against friends