Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Lawrencelot]

Who are you playing as?

Sheik, against whoever

 

[KevinM]

Abuse platform needle cancels and space Bairs like an ***.

 

[EC_Joey]

Just forget that there are better stages.

What do I do against people that are both hard to grab, and always crouchcancel at low percent?

What do you mean by "hard to grab"? Do they spot dodge? Do they cover their landings with aerials/wavelands/jabs? Do they dash dance camp? What is it exactly that they do?

 

[Vro]

At low percents, CC is inevitable as a counter attack. Grab is the best way to counter this (you can even CC into grab to counter their CC!). However, if you find it hard to grab them, I suggest you space aerials such as backair against a CC'd opponent until their percent goes up enough where CC doesn't really matter. Camping needles may also help. And to be quite honest, it's always going to be hard to grab, so grab more.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Like Kevin said, platform drop needles are your best friend.

 

[KirbyKaze]

do stuff win

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Best advice ever.

 

[Tamoo]

I was playing melee today and something kept on happening that happens quite regularly but i never really paid much attention to before.
Basically, when you get hit, you go into a certain period of hitstun where you cant do anything. However, sometimes, the opponent leaves the attack with virtually no hitstun at all and seemingly floats away from the attack. A good example of this is when i pillar a spacie, the shine occasionally sends them up without hitstun, and i was wondering what was the explanation for this.

 

[Lawrencelot]

What do you mean by "hard to grab"? Do they spot dodge? Do they cover their landings with aerials/wavelands/jabs? Do they dash dance camp? What is it exactly that they do?

No spotdodging, just a better spacing than mine, and being in the air a lot. But the advice I got now should do the trick I guess, thanks

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I was playing melee today and something kept on happening that happens quite regularly but i never really paid much attention to before.
Basically, when you get hit, you go into a certain period of hitstun where you cant do anything. However, sometimes, the opponent leaves the attack with virtually no hitstun at all and seemingly floats away from the attack. A good example of this is when i pillar a spacie, the shine occasionally sends them up without hitstun, and i was wondering what was the explanation for this.

The game feels bad when you start ****** someone too hard

 

[Corigames]

Why do people use anything other than the control stick to jump aside from JC's and WD's?

It just seems impractical to me to hit jump with your thumb and then move it down to the c-stick or to B when you can put your thumb on either one while your left hand does the jump on the control stick.

 

[Lovage]

Why do people use anything other than the control stick to jump aside from JC's and WD's?

It just seems impractical to me to hit jump with your thumb and then move it down to the c-stick or to B when you can put your thumb on either one while your left hand does the jump on the control stick.

i use the control stick for all my jumps except wavedashing on the ground. i jump cancel (grabs, shines etc) with up and do really tight wavelands with up. there are some drawbacks, its impossible to do a running "back jump" if you jump with up (ex: falcon's backflip, which has uses)

personally i think both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, its just up to you

 

[EC_Joey]

Why do people use anything other than the control stick to jump aside from JC's and WD's?

It just seems impractical to me to hit jump with your thumb and then move it down to the c-stick or to B when you can put your thumb on either one while your left hand does the jump on the control stick.

It's faster for running short hopped aerials. I don't think I would be able to do advancing short hop nairs with Fox with the control stick for jumping. Also, if you jump with the control stick and you unexpectedly get hit with an upwards killing move while you jump I'd imagine it'd be harder to DI.

 

[Corigames]

True for both then.

Samus is floaty, so I guess I'm pampered in the SHFFL department when it comes to using the control stick.

 

[KevinM]

Yeah I was about to make some snide comment about you using Samus, but you covered it for me.

<3.

 

[Lovage]

It's faster for running short hopped aerials. I don't think I would be able to do advancing short hop nairs with Fox with the control stick for jumping. Also, if you jump with the control stick and you unexpectedly get hit with an upwards killing move while you jump I'd imagine it'd be harder to DI.

i don't mean to sound cocky but
as a fox main my nairs are totally fine, they have basically the same distance as any other fox i know. and my DI is fine too dog, its all reaction time like anything else

 

[CommanderCody08]

I was playing melee today and something kept on happening that happens quite regularly but i never really paid much attention to before.
Basically, when you get hit, you go into a certain period of hitstun where you cant do anything. However, sometimes, the opponent leaves the attack with virtually no hitstun at all and seemingly floats away from the attack. A good example of this is when i pillar a spacie, the shine occasionally sends them up without hitstun, and i was wondering what was the explanation for this.

I've noticed this too before and I have no idea. It usually seems to happen after the shine though and I used to think it seemed almost like a phantom hit effect but I don't think so anymore.

My question: Does every character's neutral A make opponents on the ground stand up or does it only work with some characters? I know its useful with Fox/ Falco but I was wondering how many characters really benefit from it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If they suck a lot of characters can do it.

But if they're good they'll DI up so a lot can't.

 

[halcyon.days]

I've noticed this too before and I have no idea. It usually seems to happen after the shine though and I used to think it seemed almost like a phantom hit effect but I don't think so anymore.

My question: Does every character's neutral A make opponents on the ground stand up or does it only work with some characters? I know its useful with Fox/ Falco but I was wondering how many characters really benefit from it.

No hitstun only happens if you're hit by the same move twice in a short amount of period (which is why it is seen a lot of the time when falco pillars fox due to dair-shine-dair-shine etc). I don't know the exact mechanics of it, but it's something like that.

And yes, every character's neutral A makes them stand up. This is more commonly known as a tap reset. However, if your opponent is good, they can SDI the jab up and they'll be standing up immediately and be able to counteract. Also, if the opponent is holding A, when you tapreset them they'll do a getup attack. If they are holding the control stick to either side, they will roll when you tapreset them.

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ that is not always the case, depending on percentage. Below a certain point the tap reset will not give them the option to do other stuff. It varies from character to character on the different characters, however.

Sheik's tap reset on Fox doesn't let him roll in either direction or get-up attack below like 32. Jigglypuff's I've heard rumours of it being below like 80.

 

[halcyon.days]

^ that is not always the case, depending on percentage. Below a certain point the tap reset will not give them the option to do other stuff. It varies from character to character on the different characters, however.

Sheik's tap reset on Fox doesn't let him roll in either direction or get-up attack below like 32. Jigglypuff's I've heard rumours of it being below like 80.

I did not know this.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah, that's why the Mango combo works forever and ever. Because Puff's jab is so weak. Weak jab = epic win sometimes.

Marth's jab you can recover in standing position at like any percent WITHOUT smash DI, just holding up will suffice, 'cuz his jab is stronger than Kirby's or Sheik's or whatever. That's why jab reset doesn't really work with Marth lolz, except maybe on Fox at like really low percent with his weak jab, but otherwise you have to d-tilt or do gay Marth things.

But yeah, jab resets are only really useful on fast fallers nowadays. And only at medium-low percents for two of them. Fox mercifully can be tap reset to like 71 by Sheik's jab (although he does get the options to recover with roll, reset, or attack at after like 32), and Sheik's jab is fairly strong comparatively to other jabs, so yeah...

Fox once again gets screwed by his accelerated fall speed but remains on top of like every character regardless. How the hell does he do it?

 

[Binx]

@ hal - I think quarter circle DI does work, but I guess I was just demonstrating di-ing in only one direction since quarter circle DI isn't always an option. To be fair all attempts I've tried quarter circle DI have failed me, but it could definitely be my stick control.

 

[KevinM]

i don't mean to sound cocky but
as a fox main my nairs are totally fine, they have basically the same distance as any other fox i know. and my DI is fine too dog, its all reaction time like anything else

*insert snide comment about West Coast DI*

<3

 

[Geist]

whooo magus power activated
If anyone wants more info on jab resets:

The point where they can begin to do a different getup than stand is based entirely on the attack's launch power, which has been multiplied by their weight, so it follows the weight list in the same way.

Attacks like Peach's jab for example, which has a fixed knockback, will always allow Fox/Falco to Roll or Attack in addition to Stand on a forced getup with it, while it will always force CF to Stand regardless of what he holds/presses on forced getup. This is because the base knockback of her slap multiplied by Fox/Falco's weight puts the launching power beyond the needed amount to allow the additional options, whereas when multiplied by CF's weight the power is below the required amount.

Regardless of the options the attack's launch power allows, in order for them to get a forced getup in the first place they need to be on the ground following the attack after like 13 frames or something, which is a short animation where they lay back down following the ground hit. If they're still in the air when the animation completes they go into a neutral fall stance and simply land on their feet and can do whatever.

This is the damage they need to be at after the hit for Sheik's Needles and Jab to allow the extra Roll and Attack options on a forced getup. Below this they will always do the normal stand on forced getup.

They both seem to have the same damages so I suppose they have roughly the same power at that damage range. Non-fastfallers won't hit the ground again nearly as fast so they land on their feet instead easily when using a Jab. FFers do this too at higher damages or when they DI/SDI the Jab upwards at lower damage.

Bowser .... 45
DK ........ 44
Samus ..... 44
Ganon ..... 43
Yoshi ..... 43
CF ........ 42
Link ...... 42
Dr Mario .. 42
Luigi ..... 42
Mario ..... 42
Ness ...... 40
Peach ..... 39
Sheik ..... 39
Zelda ..... 39
ICs ....... 39
Marth ..... 39
Mewtwo .... 38
Roy ....... 38
Y Link .... 38
Falco ..... 37
Pikachu ... 37
Fox ....... 36
Kirby ..... 35
Jiggs ..... 33
G&W ....... 33
Pichu ..... 32


For the Jab, these are the faster falling and more relevant characters that don't get out of it easily. This is the percent after the hit that these characters will begin to land on their feet if they hold UP when jabbed off the floor.

Fox ....... 71
Falco ..... 43
CF ........ 33
Sheik ..... 25
Roy ....... 20
DK ........ 19

^^ If you're wondering why Fox's is so high there it's because of his fall acceleration being much higher than everyone else's.

EDIT: The reason for moves sometimes having no hitstun is mentioned in there too, where it says:

"Regardless of the options the attack's launch power allows, in order for them to get a forced getup in the first place they need to be on the ground following the attack after like 13 frames or something, which is a short animation where they lay back down following the ground hit. If they're still in the air when the animation completes they go into a neutral fall stance and simply land on their feet and can do whatever."

so there's a small time where any attack will make them pop to their feet. Naturally, if it's a strong enough move to launch you in the air, it will do so with no hitstun.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You're a stupid face.

 

[EC_Joey]

i don't mean to sound cocky but
as a fox main my nairs are totally fine, they have basically the same distance as any other fox i know. and my DI is fine too dog, its all reaction time like anything else

Yeah, I've never tried it myself so I had no idea if it would work. Plus for people who don't have great reaction times it might be a little better for DI.

 

[Binx]

Well to short hop the stick has to be back in neutral before you leave the ground, so it shouldn't effect your DI at all, unless doing advancing or retreating stuff, where you would get a tiny bit more from holding the control stick all the way in one direction at basically the same time you jump.

Especially for nairs though. I doubt it would matter cause you both have to have the stick in neutral before you hit A, so if anything using Up on the control stick to jump could be a few frames faster cause your not moving from jump to A.

So once again its whatever your more comfortable with. If you can play and you don't make extra mistakes then go for it however you want.

 

[Geist]

You're a stupid face.

I lurve you KK

 

[Corigames]

Question:
Is KevinM snide?

 

[Proverbs]

Absolutely.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Question:
Is KevinM snide?

Of course not. They don't make snide people moderators.

 

[EC_Joey]

Question:
Is KevinM snide?

KevinM is a straight-up G.

 

[Binx]

I'm pretty sure if he was a super hero his name would be sarcasmo

 

[KirbyKaze]

Actually, I can vouche that he'd be orgasmo.

 

[KevinM]

I love you guys dearly.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

I'm pretty sure if he was a super hero his name would be sarcasmo

I love you guys dearly.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu**

I can't tell if he's lying or not

 

[Corigames]

I would put my money on sitting.

 

[Binx]

I would put my money on sitting.

ROFL, we're gamers I've yet to meet a gamer that didn't have plenty of respect for sarcasm.

Case in point: House

 

[EC_Joey]

I know for a fact KevinM hates me.

Question: My Falcon sucks. What can I do to get better? I dashdance camp like a *****.