Official European Brawl Tier List v1.0 (November 2011)

[-Jumpman-]

Woops. I forgot the 12 year old has the right to call anyone a kiddo. You're like a skinny slightly blacker gluttony that actually travels but then gets salty when he loses with metaknight son

oh and
/herp derp spelling mistakes


Like. imo it's pretty clear for the most part who the top and bottom of this game are lmao, bottom half of high to mids can always be debated but it barely matters anyway.

Intellectual age > actual.

And for you they're not mistakes

 

[Gardex]

And what about ...? is definitely NOT better then . has only 2 possibly bad matchups with and . is countered by , , , and . is countered by himself, , , and .

Why are you telling me this?

lol

 

[Marc]

Let's all keep it a little friendly, it's just a tier list. =X

 

[Shaya]

So much salt.

BBR made a tier list, it's a list contrived of 70 odd player's opinions.
Europe made a tier list, it's a list contrived of X odd player's opinions.

 

[Orion*]

Intellectual age > actual.

Well then excuse me, I forgot that you going through school really well must have given you a big head.

Overall Maturity > Rantings of a salty ****** with a book


@gardex

tier list is already done. like i can see your points and agree with some but like doing anything now wont do much.

 

[Gardex]

I've already given up on it anyways..
No point in arguing if it only aggrivates people

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

What I want to know is the point of making our own tier list if it doesn't represent our metagame (which it CLEARLY doesn't)

 

[Meru.]

Because that's not what a tier list is meant to be.

 

[Slhoka]

So much salt.

BBR made a tier list, it's a list contrived of 70 odd player's opinions.
Europe made a tier list, it's a list contrived of X odd player's opinions.

39 players (+ 4 answers that couldn't be taken into account because they weren't complete or looked like outlier votes)

 

[Greward]

it doesnt look like the one i submitted, too bad
i don't really like it nor agree with

 

[xDD-Master]

Everyone calm down Orion, Chair <3
I love people that stay calm and try to spread happyness instead of starting an offensive debate all the time (Yeah looking at YOU )

I dont agree with the outturn of the list, BUT this isnt my list, if I want that, I wouldnt have to look in this thread. In the end its just a subjective opinion list, which was formed by the avarage opinion of european voters, and the people who voted live in Europe and therefore experience the european metagame, they have the european rulesets (Mostly) so they have another perspective then most americans, so ofc. there will be other opinions, BUT that doesnt mean at all, that the european list has to represent the results, the results are just one part of the experience the european players get, which is, as I already said, different to the american one.

I think we also shouldnt be too afraid of this list, because it's our first, and I'm sure most people did a tier list their first time, so it's obvious that not everything is 100% correct.
I personally couldve changed most of my Top 8 around (MK being 1/2 for sure, but the others are pretty changebable). Things like that are hard to decide, and I guess, most people were a bit too afraid of really doing any unconvential things and stick to the "standard" when it comes to deciding some placings. Why did so many french people think Snake is second? That doesnt make sense, as they dont have any good snakes, and even peach is a higher fear than snake to most frenchies. But as they see videos of america/japan, and other stuff like results/discussions, they are influenced and so voting them higher than they would do without this influence.

So maybe, if we would do another run of making a european tier list, I think many people would be less afraid of doing unconventional placings. I tried to do that (And so did Luigi player) but I couldnt do that to the fullest nevertheless. Would it really be correct to put Gw/Lucario/Pika on the 20th spot? So I guess most people chose the safe way, when not being 100% sure about some placings.
I hope you can understand me and my point ;x

Props to Marc and Slhoka for doing this! I tried my best to get the votes from Germany, but we all know how that turned out :/ (Maybe chose someone else in the future for this - Lp I'd say). And its cool that we finally did this and seeing the result of it is cool! I think its a good thing for europe nevertheless and I hope european TOs arent to afraid of using that tier list as a base for future LT/MT(Etc.) events!

Again, all the upset people should just calm down, you're acting as if the tier list would harm you, which isnt the case AT ALL! This project was/is interesting, and therefore fun, which isnt a bad thing if you ask me Just let the people who like it enjoy this listn instead of being a douchebag and destroying their joy ^^
I'm out :]

 

[NickRiddle]

Alright. Every problem I've been told so far has been fixed (I'm only talking about technical stuff, not the results themselves... I don't give a **** about these).

Also, game time : when adding the characters icons, I somehow lost the diddy icon, so I added another one.
Yet I just found were the first one went. It's still in the table, hidden very very well. Can you find it ?

Diddy is under Kirby's icon. :3

 

[teluoborg]

Is the last page on the pdf the number of mains invited to vote? Who counts as the Bowser main?

Haha sorry that's me.
Retrospectively I shouldn't have done that since I mostly go Falco/n in tournaments but well, Bowser is still my 4th most played character.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Well then excuse me, I forgot that you going through school really well must have given you a big head.

Overall Maturity > Rantings of a salty ****** with a book


@gardex

tier list is already done. like i can see your points and agree with some but like doing anything now wont do much.

You just mad cuz you dumb, dumb people can have opinions too tho.

And yeah, stop hatin' on a 12 year old, mature man.

 

[Marc]

Take that childish **** to PMs.

Akuma, great post. People do need to realize this was a first attempt and not have unreasonable expectations where individual opinions are concerned.

Diddy is under Kirby's icon. :3

Well done, you're the first to legitimately find it. The secret prize for it was BBR membership, but it seems like you already have that.

 

[NickRiddle]

Take that childish **** to PMs.

Akuma, great post. People do need to realize this was a first attempt and not have unreasonable expectations where individual opinions are concerned.



Well done, you're the first to legitimately find it. The secret prize for it was BBR membership, but it seems like you already have that.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamnit.
Give me a "Where's Waldo" postbit or something.

 

[King Funk]

I'd like to say that I was told by everyone I asked to make a list based purely on my opinions of the characters (which means no European tournament results or stuff of that kind). I don't see the point of making a results-based tier list because first of all, we really don't have many tournament results in general, and most importantly, we already have a thread run by Gheb which compiles tournament results and ranks the characters accordingly. This list should be seen more like a collection of European opinions on the character rather than representing the European metagame correctly.

If we ever make a list and we're forced to base it a little more on results then my list will look very different.

I don't think we need to get to that just yet though.

 

[Marcbri]

Totally agreed with KF and Akuma, well said.

I really expected Snake to be lower, so much love for Snake in other countries looking at our lists xD.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

how often do you guys plan on making tier lists like every few months or a year etc.

 

[Marc]

With European tier lists it's always come from people feeling the need to have one and update it at some point, as well as actually taking the iniative to get it done. Outside of less systematic urges, I'd say it's reasonable to revisit it in 9 months or so.

 

[Slhoka]

Props to Marc and Slhoka for doing this! I tried my best to get the votes from Germany, but we all know how that turned out :/ (Maybe chose someone else in the future for this - Lp I'd say). And its cool that we finally did this and seeing the result of it is cool! I think its a good thing for europe nevertheless and I hope european TOs arent to afraid of using that tier list as a base for future LT/MT(Etc.) events!

Thank you and sorry for not answering you on GSB, I totally forgot.

Diddy is under Kirby's icon. :3

Yeaaaaaah !
I was really disappointed to see that no one paid attention to this.
Congratulations !

 

[xDD-Master]

Yeaaaaaah !
I was really disappointed to see that no one paid attention to this.
Congratulations !

I saw it even before I read your post, wanted to post "Something is wrong with teh kirbz btw" but then I saw your post, and I thought "Oh :3 dont want to destroy all the fun for the others!", but Nick did anyway :<

@Marc: Thanks
I think for many people it wasnt clear how exactly they have to create their tier list, I got asked a lot, if its just their opinion, or what they think about Europen Metagame... (I told them just their opinion). Maybe we should clarify this before voting the next time (A "real" european Tier List seems interesting too! - Maybe we should call it European Metagame Tier List or something). I think a voting after the Easter Holydays seems reasonable, or after summer. We'll see what the people want.

@Slhoka: Well, even though I waited for some answer, its no prob, as it's too late now anyway ^^"

 

[NickRiddle]

I saw it even before I read your post, wanted to post "Something is wrong with teh kirbz btw" but then I saw your post, and I thought "Oh :3 dont want to destroy all the fun for the others!", but Nick did anyway :<

@Marc: Thanks
I think for many people it wasnt clear how exactly they have to create their tier list, I got asked a lot, if its just their opinion, or what they think about Europen Metagame... (I told them just their opinion). Maybe we should clarify this before voting the next time (A "real" european Tier List seems interesting too! - Maybe we should call it European Metagame Tier List or something). I think a voting after the Easter Holydays seems reasonable, or after summer. We'll see what the people want.

@Slhoka: Well, even though I waited for some answer, its no prob, as it's too late now anyway ^^"

I'm not EU.
I aim to drain fun from others. :D

 

[Seagull Joe]

Why does seagull n!gger think he knows ****?

Because I do.

Yo Seagull.

Why you here tho.

Like, do you expect every single member to post the reasoning behind every single character placement he did? Do you expect us to post 1600+ walls of text on how this tier list was made?

Gardex and the like I can understand, no hatred towards you guys.

I like arguing in tier list threads.

lol Seagull and his anti-Peach sentiments. Europe finds Peach a better character yet you are still trying to convince everyone that she shouldn't be higher on a European tier list by telling us Wolf's match-ups, with match-up ratios that you and your American ( that includes: not European) friends have decided.

You may not have seen a European Peach with skills equal to that of Semifer or any other Wolf, but that does not mean there any. Leon, Reaper and Yami are all capable enough to represent Peach as a good character. Despite Leon uses her as a secondary and despite his Peach isn't in his prime anymore, he still manages to do well with her in and outside of tourney. Reaper mostly plays Peach, alongside other characters, but it appears that he uses multiple characters because he enjoys playing so, not (necessarily) because he believes that Peach is unviable. And then we have Yami, who as far as I know has not been entering many big tourneys, but nonetheless he fares well in French tourneys and in his videos he often displays a capable Peach.

If you do not believe my words, then feel free to take a look at the tournament results thread. Please call an ambulance in case Peach's results gives you a heart attack.

She's still the freeest character to me. Results or not.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260253

Thank you.

 

[Mew2King]

marth is WAY too high

 

[Anaky]

I like this tier list, its basically exactly what i put up to B tier, except for Wario and Icies i switched around.

 

[Kasper!]

I like Rainbows

 

[C.R.Z]

wolf in mid tier is broken

ROB better than Kirby? o rly?

 

[Lord Chair]

dont worry, hes still bad

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

Because that's not what a tier list is meant to be.

A tier list is NOT meant to reflect the metagame?


Have I been missing out on something?

 

[-Jumpman-]

A tier list is NOT meant to reflect the metagame?


Have I been missing out on something?

Pretty much.

 

[K@0S]

It depends on how you define metagame.

If to you it's just "what character wins", then yes, you have.

If it's "how new/current ways characters are played influence their (perceived) strength", then you haven't.

 

[Meru.]

She's still the freeest character to me. Results or not.

Ok, good for you. I like pepperoni pizza.

A tier list is NOT meant to reflect the metagame?


Have I been missing out on something?

In my very humble opinion, the goal of creating a tier list is simply to show what characters we think are the best (and additionally, on the setting that we use) in the opinion of the European players. This doesn't have to mean that their opinions are the same as our perception of the metagame. What I mean by this is that the players who created the tier list voted for the characters they thought better, they likely did not create the tier list to give an accurate reflection of the metagame. I think the tournament results list is ideal to show you what characters get better results in our metagame.

Lucario is rare in our metagame, yet he's on the higher half on the list. Pit performs poorly in the European metagame, since he gets bad results, his position on the tier list is not so poor, however.

Now it is true that our perception of the metagame influences our opinions. If we see Zelda continuously ****** everyone, then we may think of her as a better character. It's also possibly to draw valid conclusion from the tier lists. If Marth is high on a tier list, he is probably doing well. If Fox and Peach are higher on the list compared to the US tier list, they may be performing better (obviously these conclusions may not always be true). This means that tier list may indirectly reflect our metagame, but that does not have to mean that that is the purpose of creating the list, not that the tier list will always (perfectly) reflect the metagame.

 

[Greward]

ROB better than Kirby? o rly?

kirby sucks soooo much

 

[xDD-Master]

^ this lol

 

[C.R.Z]

kirby sucks soooo much

and ROB doesn't ? :/

 

[xDD-Master]

ROB is ok.

 

[Espy Rose]

Fun tier list, Europe.
Looking forward to the next.

Oh, and excellent job setting this up btw.

Oh, just out of curiosity, are there any Sonics in Europe?

 

[Flayl]

Very few, I know of Blackshadows and naT in Spain, but that was in 2010 and I don't even know if they play anymore. I don't think they ever attended international tournaments either.

There's also Prince Shadow from Germany or Holland (somebody tell me which).

One of the best players here in Portugal was a Sonic main. He went to a grand total of one tournament that had 11 players.

 

[Marcbri]

Blacks and nat both went to TSL4 a looong time ago. They attend few tourneys and are rather inactive. Nat is still one of the hosts of the NST series and they both attend every year though.

There's also a new player in Spain called pfosonic who has got some pretty decent results, maybe he's the best sonic main in Spain now.

other than that, sonic is pretty much non-existant around here. Well, Grew plays him often and he's prolly the best Sonic in europe lol.