Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[~ Gheb ~]

I still don't think, that MK should be in the same tier as Snake (or that Snake should be in a different tier than G&W, D3, ROB et al). MK has better match ups, better moveset potential and better tourney results now. How can they be in the same tier? It's an impossibility imo

 

[Bl4nk]

I still don't think, that MK should be in the same tier as Snake (or that Snake should be in a different tier than G&W, D3, ROB et al). MK has better match ups, better moveset potential and better tourney results now. How can they be in the same tier? It's an impossibility imo

First of all, Snake has the advantage over Metaknight, secondly there is currently a metaknight bandwagon ***gotry going on making him flood the tournament scene naturally giving him the better tournament results (much alike what happened to Snake earlier). Everyone now thinks that metaknight is the god of brawl, while in reality he is not. He's just good, not god.

I personally think Snake and Mr. Game and Watch are better than Metaknight, just much much harder to play.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

First of all, Snake has the advantage over Metaknight

Yoshi has an advantage against Olimar. Is Yoshi better than Olimar?
And strange enough, MK wins more tournaments than Snake despite having a disatvantage against him???

secondly there is currently a metaknight bandwagon ***gotry going on making him flood the tournament scene naturally giving him the better tournament results (much alike what happened to Snake earlier).

There are lots of Snakes in tournaments too. By your arguments MK would stand no chance.

Everyone now thinks that metaknight is the god of brawl, while in reality he is not. He's just good, not god.

He's the best character. Period.

I personally think Snake and Mr. Game and Watch are better than Metaknight, just much much harder to play.

No. just No.

1.) G&W hard to play? What's so hard about spamming Bair?
2.) G&W and Snake both have worse match-ups than MK.
3.) Poeple are actually searching for a counter. I remember DK being mentioned and somebody claimed ROB > MK. Now there are ppl, who say Diddy > MK. The truth is, that there's no opponent, a skilled MK can't beat

 

[Snail]

Since when was ROB considered to be above Falco and Marth?
I bleieve he is generally the lowest of the top 7

It was just an example. I'm not sure, maybe he's below Falco and Marth, maybe he's not. I'd personally put him above those two but whatever.

 

[Bl4nk]

The truth is, that there's no opponent, a skilled MK can't beat

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[hectichobo]

Kirby & Luigi> Everyone.

@Gheb 01
You claim that theres no opponent that a skilled meta knight can't be. I've played some pretty skilled meta knights online and i've beaten the majority of them. some i've lost to but hardly, if i was given the chance to play them again i could beat them. So therefor what you said, "The truth is, that there's no opponent, a skilled MK can't beat" either is false or applys to everyone.

 

[Snail]

First of all, Snake has the advantage over Metaknight

Yoshi has an advantage against Olimar. Is Yoshi better than Olimar? No, but Yoshi is no-where near Olimar in the tier list. It's not just matchups, but overall character capabilities too. Olimar absolutely ***** Yoshi in that department as well as matchups against most other characters.

And strange enough, MK wins more tournaments than Snake despite having a disadvantage against him??? Possibly. In a match between a Snake and MK player of equal skill, Snake should win. That's the whole point of matchups. The fact that MK wins more tournaments can be explained by the fact MK is more popular right now, thus has more skilled players, resulting in more wins, even against Snake. Snake is also a hell of a lot harder to play than MK.

secondly there is currently a metaknight bandwagon ***gotry going on making him flood the tournament scene naturally giving him the better tournament results (much alike what happened to Snake earlier).

There are lots of Snakes in tournaments too. By your arguments MK would stand no chance. No, if those Snakes and MKs would have exactly equal skills, then Snake would probably win. But that is not the case; There are simply many more skilled MKs out there than Snakes. That, and a MK doesn't necessarily run into a Snake in the tournament finals.

 

[BEES]

Question to any back-roomers skimming the thread: is there any progress on an official tier list? I've heard nothing but wild speculation in this thread, and I think we're starting to need something more concrete.

If not, I'm a bit concerned that a tier list won't ever be developed for Brawl, as an intentional act to stall or even disband its competitive community.

 

[Pieisthebest]

^That would be epic mindgames

 

[GoForkUrself]

Characters from the weekly character thread. Note: This tier list is based on opinions and not strictly tournament placement. As much as I try to use all characters and their AT's in an effort to have a better understanding of them, I obviously don't know them all as well as you guys, so opinions for adjustments are welcome. I'll try to keep this as updated as possible, and I'll add the newest weekly character each week as well. Order does count, so please help out with that.

Changes:

Things I am thinking about involving this list:
Tudor's Samus is mightily impressive, but should she really be above Link and Shiek because of that?

Top Tier:
Meta Knight
Snake


Higher:
Mr.Game and Watch
DeDeDe
Marth
R.O.B.
Falco


High:

Pikachu
Bowser

Middle:
Diddy
Wolf
Toon Link

Low:
Samus
Link
Sheik


Bottom:
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Also since everyone always talks about characters not on my list I decided I'll do a list with all characters and I'll make changes to this list as players make convincing statements onto why someone should be moved.
Changes:Ness and Mario Switched.

Top Tier:
Meta Knight
Snake


Higher:
Mr.Game and Watch
DeDeDe
Marth
R.O.B.
Falco


High:

Wario
Pikachu
DK
Lucario
Ice Climbers


Middle:
Diddy
Kirby
Pit
Zero suit Samus
Olimar
Wolf
Peach
Toon Link
Bowser
Zelda/Sheik
Lucas
Fox
Zelda


Low:
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Luigi
Ness
Mario
Ike
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Samus
Link
Sheik


Bottom:
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

I did this list without counting, and it turned out pretty well. 12 above middle, and 11 below middle. I feel it's pretty balanced, but I may have screwed up locations since I don't know about all of their metagames(like I've never seen a Kirby at a tournament). Also as I said before, I do look at tournament rankings, but this is mostly based on opinion. We all know Luigi is the least used tournament character, so I don't want people saying he is bottom tier when we all know he isn't. He might be low tier, but I don't know.
Since I have not seen all these characters in tournaments, I will need your help to get this list going. I'd like this list to be good enough to be a solid guideline until we get an official list.

 

[Frown]

Ness a bit higher.

Falco over R.O.B. and Marth.

That's what I think.

 

[exidid]

I think Samus is good enough to be top of low tier or even mid tier. Her aerial game has plenty combos and she has her amazing Zair. Her projectile game can serve it's little uses. Nice recovery. Heavy.

She lacks Ko power though.

Sheik is VERY fast. Her tilts are absolute ****, and her recovery isn't that bad with her tether recovery and upB. She has a lot of trouble KOing, maybe the character with the most problem KOing, but she can still rack up damage really quickly.

Olimar is really good. He lacks a good recovery, but so does Falco >.< He has his anti-edgeguard tactics. I think he is high tier material.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Sheik in bottom low makes me sad.
Hell, Sheik in low period makes me sad.

 

[popsofctown]

Sheik doesn't get the Luigi treatment. That's only for characters who had to suffer through mediocrity for two straight games.

 

[GoForkUrself]

Yep. Sheik had her moment at the top(she was my melee main). Now if I use her I am forced to switch to Zelda to Upsmash my opponent.

 

[Famous]

Wow, Mario is a low tier?...I guess me, Boss and other Mario mains have work to do... I haven't really seen many Ness players though, I cant believe he's higher than Mario.

 

[GoForkUrself]

Both haven't done much in tournaments. They are right next to each other in the tournament rankings. The two characters are right next to each other in skills and potential. I wonder if within the next two weeks if one of them will seperate.

 

[AlexX]

Olimar deserves to be at least high tier. He can damage, he can KO, and he can punish campers. The only thing that keeps him out of top tier is his bad recovery (and he has ways to somewhat help with the issue).

 

[GoForkUrself]

I may move him up within the next week. Since there is so much stuff to his game(like all the pikmin and their order and effectiveness, as well as rainbow cancelling attacks), I think he will work his way up to high tier as players work at mastering him.

 

[rathy Aro]

To address MKs winning more tournys. PC's just chillin letting you guys learn your "matchups" and "ATs", but once he's done he'll **** the nation (aside from M2K and a couple others) and there will be no question: snake will be beard tier once again.

 

[Oh Snap]

can you consider adding shiek and zelda as one character on the list?

 

[???????]

Wow, Mario is a low tier?...I guess me, Boss and other Mario mains have work to do... I haven't really seen many Ness players though, I cant believe he's higher than Mario.

Mario does have the potential to be mid mid to high mid, but he does not currently have the tourney placings to justify placing him higher at this time.

 

[NxC]

Well, here's my current take on the brawl scene. This is a completely biased list, based only off of what I've seen from the smashers I've played and from what I've played before. I've taken the liberty to highlight the characters that suffer from possible bias, as there are characters I admit to completely failing with and have never seen otherwise and others who place higher than they should, perhaps, because I've fought "good ______s". Characters in royal blue are characters I play, for more indication of obvious bias. In all seriousness, though, Pit belongs in the top tier.

Each section is ordered ALPHABETICALLY. Take this list with a mountain of salt.

"don't argue" tier
------------------

• Meta Knight
• Mr. Game and Watch
• Pit
• Snake

"these are good" tier
------------------

• Falco
• Fox
• Ice Climbers
• King Dedede
• Marth
• Pikachu
• R.O.B.
• Wario

"these are scarey in the right hands" tier
------------------

• Kirby
• Lucas
• Ness
• Olimar
• Sheik
• Toon Link
• ZS Samus

"I'm sure in the right hands these might be average" tier
------------------

• Bowser
• Diddy Kong
• Jigglypuff
• Lucario
• Luigi
• Mario
• Peach
• Samus
• Wolf
• Yoshi
• Zelda

"I'm sorry" tier
------------------

• Captain Falcon
• Donkey Kong
• Link
• Pokemon Trainer
• Yoshi

"face it" tier
------------------

• Ganondorf
• Sonic

"Ike" tier
------------------

• Ike

 

[Fearmy]

uh yeah, PT is defintely higher, i'm assuming you've been playing complete horribly PT's because PT does REALLY great against CF, and Donkey Kong. this should at least be in the, average in teh right hands tier... i've seriously seen some good PT's out there, and trust me, they can easily Punish you with a simple move. now if you are talkign about Tourney, well he is neglected =X and i'll understand from there

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Post

Pit isn't as godly as Snake or MK in the world of Smash, Donkey Kong is not on the "I'm Sorry" tier, he is actually good, any character can be deadly in the right hands BTW, Pit is with the High Tier group, right under DDD/G-Dub/Falco/ROB/Marth group.

 

[Ratatat]

¿Where is it everyone can see the tournament rankings?

 

[Tenki]

"face it" tier
------------------

• Ganondorf
• Sonic

Yay! It's been a long time since I've seen a list like this!

Too bad he actually admits and even points out his bias ^^;


I like this person already.

 

[GoForkUrself]

I realize that he did say he had plenty of bias, but I am hoping he is trying to be funny. That list isn't even remotely close to a tier list. I do love the names of the tiers even if they aren't close. "Face it tier" lol.

 

[jber4life]

@rRatatat

Check the "Character Ranking List"

SONNY

 

[isomorphism]

lol @ DK in "I'm sorry" tier and Pit > Snake.

 

[rathy Aro]

[/B][/U]Each section is ordered ALPHABETICALLY. Take this list with a mountain of salt.
[/COLOR]

"don't argue" tier
------------------

• Meta Knight
• Mr. Game and Watch
• Pit
• Snake

"these are good" tier
------------------

• Falco
• Fox
• Ice Climbers
• King Dedede
• Marth
• Pikachu
• R.O.B.
• Wario

"these are scarey in the right hands" tier
------------------

• Kirby
• Lucas
• Ness
• Olimar
• Sheik
• Toon Link
• ZS Samus

"I'm sure in the right hands these might be average" tier
------------------

• Bowser
• Diddy Kong
• Jigglypuff
• Lucario
• Luigi
• Mario
• Peach
• Samus
• Wolf
• Yoshi
• Zelda

"I'm sorry" tier
------------------

• Captain Falcon
• Donkey Kong
• Link
• Pokemon Trainer
• Yoshi

"face it" tier
------------------

• Ganondorf
• Sonic

"Ike" tier
------------------

• Ike

Very, very bad list. Ike isn't bottom tier at all falcon isn't decent tier at all. Sonic isn't that low. Pit is NOT THAT HIGH. He really isn't that big a deal. Falco should be higher. Sheik should NOT be that high nor should ZSS. DK is way higher than that..... where are you getting this from?...... Too much to correct. I give up, but yeah. This is completely inaccurate.

Even with biases this list shouldn't be this f***ed up.

 

[rathy Aro]

The H2YL Tier List
July 2008

God Tier
Metaknight

Top Tier
Snake
King Dedede
Falco

Upper Tier
Mr. Game&Watch
Marth
R.O.B.

High Tier
Kirby
Pit
Wario
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Peach

Mid Tier
Olimar
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Ike
Pikachu
Fox
Toon Link

Low Tier
Samus
Ness
Bowser
Sheik
Lucas
Mario
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer
Sonic

Bottom Tier
Link
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

Attention everyone, the list is flawless, so if you disagree, then either you or the list is wrong. So once again... the list is flawless.

Now someone close this thread.

 

[missingnomaster]

That list is not flawless. Peach doesn't have the tourney placings or the match ups to justify being high tier.

 

[ShadowLink84]

*facepalm*

Seriously you think people would learn to stop placing sonic in the top 10 worst characters yah?

 

[Tenki]

*facepalm*

Seriously you think people would learn to stop placing sonic in the top 10 worst characters yah?

b- b- but he has like no priority or range!11 and is light! and i haven't seen anyone who can use him yet!


lol take it easy. =P it doesn't really affect your gameplay, does it? haha.

 

[ShadowLink84]

its like getting poked Tenki.
The first 50 okay no issue, but once you start hitting 500 someone's face needs to get ripped off 'know.

BTW winnage avatar.

 

[Twilght Link]

That list isn't flawless; im not being biased but why is toon link so low. Toon link is high tier material.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Chillin's list =/= flawless dude.

(Note that when it gets down to like low tier and sh*t, that sh*t's like a tossup. is lucas sh*ttier than ganon? who the **** knows)

Good game.

 

[Giga Wario]

This is a (sucky) tier list that I have made based on my anilizations of the characters stats, competitive value and all of that. Here we go:

Top tier:

Meta Knight
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
Snake
King DeDeDe

High tier:
R.O.B.
Marth
Pikachu
Wario
Olimar
Pit
Lucario (not sure as of yet)
Wolf


Middle Tier:
Ice Climbers
Donkey Kong
Charizard
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Kirby
Fox
Toon Link
Pokemon Trainer (Rotation)
Ness


Low Tier:
Sonic
Ivysaur
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Mario
Link
Squirtle
Ike
Samus
Yoshi

Bottom Tier:
Sheik
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

I know it sucks. I said it did at the start of this post!

 

[ShadowLink84]

This is a (sucky) tier list that I have made based on my anilizations of the characters stats, competitive value and all of that. Here we go:

Top tier:
Meta Knight
Falco Too high but him in high tier
Mr. Game & Watch
Snake
R.O.B. High tier material nowhere near top tier

High tier:
Zelda She should be lower
Marth I would make him 5th in terms of tier placement
Pit IMO too high move him down a bit
Wario
King DeDeDe Move him up
Pikachu
Lucario (not sure as of yet)
Zero Suit Samus No, probably upper mid tier
Ice Climbers Upper mid tier.

Middle Tier:

Wolf
Olimar Should be in high tier
Peach
Toon Link Should be in high tier
Lucas Should be lower mid tier
Diddy Kong You forgot the I in his name
Fox
Pokemon Trainer (Rotation) Wait just noticed this, *removes the other pokemon
Donkey Kong Should be higher
Luigi Should be higher
Kirby Should be higher

Low Tier:

Ness Move up
Ike
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Mario
Sheik Make her upper mid tier
Yoshi


Bottom Tier:

Samus Low tier
Link Low tier
Sonic Lower mid tier you have him way too low.
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Comments in bold.