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10caterters.
No.Samus is going to be around mid tier again. Just like in melee.
EVERY character considers Ike their easiest matchup, including Jigglypuff and Ganondorf. That doesn't make it true.Lol. Ike is one of Sonic's easiest match-ups. No one can contest that.
People keep referring to Ivysaur as a female and I can't figure out why... Did I miss something that tells us the gender for each of the pokemon?Bullet seed is the best freakin attack in the game! Bump that gal up a notch!
I'm trying to figure this one out tooPeople keep referring to Ivysaur as a female and I can't figure out why... Did I miss something that tells us the gender for each of the pokemon?
I dunno, I heard that her Japanese Voice Actor is Female. So.... yeah....I'm trying to figure this one out too
Actually, Ivysaur has a 75% of being a male or something like that
Ivysaur is female in the Japanese version.EVERY character considers Ike their easiest matchup, including Jigglypuff and Ganondorf. That doesn't make it true.
Sonic has a ton of speed, but Ike's superior range, priority, and power give a good edge. The fact most of his attacks cover most of the area around his body doesn't help Sonic's situation, either.
EDIT:
People keep referring to Ivysaur as a female and I can't figure out why... Did I miss something that tells us the gender for each of the pokemon?
VOICED by a female....Ivysaur is female in the Japanese version.
Of course! The most punishable character in the game (bar Ganon) has a good edge against the character possibly best at punishing. I'll carry on being ignorant.EVERY character considers Ike their easiest matchup, including Jigglypuff and Ganondorf. That doesn't make it true.
Sonic has a ton of speed, but Ike's superior range, priority, and power give a good edge. The fact most of his attacks cover most of the area around his body doesn't help Sonic's situation, either.
EDIT:
People keep referring to Ivysaur as a female and I can't figure out why... Did I miss something that tells us the gender for each of the pokemon?
It's a good idea, but we can't really control it. If people want to yell how great their main is, we can't stop them :/I think we should discuss the placement of the characters that have been discussed in the weekly character thread. Too many characters are being discussed atm, and its just people saying their main owns someone elses (not saying they aren't right half the time, but...)
Then we could have a system, and then not have to argue on what characters to debate as we have an "official" word.
Sonic isn't nearly as good at punishing as the upper-tiers, and Ike is arguably a better punisher than he is. A good Ike will make Sonic take a good amount of damage upon making any mistake (made better by the fact Ike has superior priority), and because Sonic is light he has to really be afraid once he gets around the 60-70% mark since Ike can take care of him with a good f-tilt or Eruption by then (or even a b-air if it's still fresh). You could say he'll never get hit by those moves, but f-tilt isn't too slow and eruption has SA frames to take advantage of.Of course! The most punishable character in the game (bar Ganon) has a good edge against the character possibly best at punishing.
Clearly you've never seen a good Ike offstage. Ike's not the best at offstage combat, but he's still fully capable of gimping the hedgehog if he gets a good d-air on him. For recovery Sonic has problems gimping Aether properly (which is what all good Ikes will be using).The fact that when Ike's offstage if Sonic knows what he's doing it's all over also contributes to the ****.
Please, continue. All I see from your arguments is that you've never seen a good Ike.I'd justify more but I can't be bothered. It's painfully obvious as it is.
Pit's Mirror Shield returns projectiles, stops some recoveries, has an SA frame, can turn people around, And it's purty.Pit is still way too high in my opinion :/ And DK is too low.
Move DK below Wario and Pit below DK. That's what I'd do. He doesn't really belong with King Dedede, G&W, Marth, ROB and Falco in my opinion. :/Pit's Mirror Shield returns projectiles, stops some recoveries, has an SA frame, can turn people around, And it's purty.
The Angel ring can reflect projectiles and at the same time cause the needed damage like a reflector.
Arrows can gimp, and they can gimp quite nicely considering their ability to be controlled.
There are times when people are at that near death area and would be able to recover yet pit's arrows knock them back enough that the recovery fails.
This doesn't work for everyone because many people's projectiles are linear and thus much easier to avoid.
Pit's not bad at all, theres really not that much more room for him to move down.
Its pretty much agreed that Falco and ROB are high tier, with Marth/DDD/G&WCharacters from the weekly character thread. Note: This tier list is based on opinions and not strictly tournament placement. Also order of characters in their respective tier does not make a difference on how good they are so don't say that MK is better than Snake and should be first, as I am only saying they are top tier and not which one is better. As much as I try to use all characters and their AT's in an effort to have a better understanding of them, I obviously don't know them all as well as you guys, so opinions for adjustments are welcome. I'll try to keep this as updated as possible, and I'll add the newest weekly character each week as well.
Things I am thinking about involving this list:
Does Ganon need to join CF at the bottom? I use Ganon as my backup for MK(for fighting Snakes and DK's) but he might need to go to the bottom anyway.
Does Marth's poor recovery and punishable attacks put him in High tier instead of Higher? I feel like he gets good placings more from being overused than from being a great character.
Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Higher:
Mr.Game and Watch
DeDeDe
Marth
High:
Falco
ROB
Middle:
Wolf
Diddy
Pikachu
Toon Link
Low:
Link
Sheik
Ganondorf
Samus
Bottom:
Captain Falcon
I'll adjust this as people make convincing arguments to change it.
Had I been restricted to only 5 tiers(meaning only high tier, and not high and higher), I would have put them with DDD GW and Marth rather than the mid tier.Its pretty much agreed that Falco and ROB are high tier, with Marth/DDD/G&W
^^ Thanks!I agree with snail. Wario->DK->Pit
Of course none of those characters are in the weekly character thread, so I don't get to place them in my slow paced tier list. Anyway, what changes do I need to make on mine?
run off stage -> springFor recovery Sonic has problems gimping Aether properly (which is what all good Ikes will be using).
DK has favourable matchups against Snake AND MK. That alone makes him good enough for high tier. Somewhere around Olimar, Wario, Pikachu, IC and Pit I guess. Maybe TL too, but he has to prove himself first.DK is easily juggled, has a hard time against anyone with a decent spammable projectile, and his vertical recovery is practially non-existant. DK does have range, power, priority, and his atks aren't too laggy wihch gives him a good ground game and a decent air game. DK in many ways is like an improved version of Ike.
Ike is just way too easy XD
No, no xD I meant like this.I know it's called upper, but I disagree with that term. If I tell 20 people that has no knowledge of tier lists the terms "Bottom, middle, High, low, top and upper" and have them organize from best to worst, I guarantee that a good portion of them would say "top, high, upper, middle, low, bottom." By using the term higher, it is very clear that it is higher than high.
Anyway that is my reasoning why I say higher instead of upper.
If I put everyone in higher, then that leaves no one for high lol.
I'd say being able to punish Ganon's jab from 3/4's of FD away and things like that constitutes as having a decent punishment game. Sonic thrives on this sorta thing >.>Sonic isn't nearly as good at punishing as the upper-tiers, and Ike is arguably a better punisher than he is. A good Ike will make Sonic take a good amount of damage upon making any mistake (made better by the fact Ike has superior priority), and because Sonic is light he has to really be afraid once he gets around the 60-70% mark since Ike can take care of him with a good f-tilt or Eruption by then (or even a b-air if it's still fresh). You could say he'll never get hit by those moves, but f-tilt isn't too slow and eruption has SA frames to take advantage of.
Clearly you've never seen a good Ike offstage. Ike's not the best at offstage combat, but he's still fully capable of gimping the hedgehog if he gets a good d-air on him. For recovery Sonic has problems gimping Aether properly (which is what all good Ikes will be using).
Please, continue. All I see from your arguments is that you've never seen a good Ike.
Seeing as how her Japanese voice matches that of May's female Bulbasaur from the anime, I'm going to call her female. =/VOICED by a female....
Not female.
^^This.So...
Sonic has better match-ups than Ike (most probably).
Sonic has better tournament results.
They're the two main factors on a tier list.
And Ike's gonna be higher?
I give up >.>