Random question, why is matchup argument here?
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- Sonic can find/force/get more punishment openings than Ike due to his speed and feints. Ike punishes harder per opening, but the openings for Ike are fewer.
- [edit] This was originally a detailed runthrough on how Sonic responds to Ike's most commonly used moves (jab/jabgrab/f-air/n-air), but I'll abridge it. Sonic's approaches aren't limited to normal attacks and aerials. Shieldgrabs, pshieldgrabs, and feint>disruptor/punishments (dash attack, spindash, grab, tilt) are all momentum starters for Sonic. Do an AAA combo, a non-retreating F-air, or miss an approach and Sonic can start his momentum with one of those.
- Sonic can die from an f-tilt at 60-70%. ...if he's doing downwards DI and is like, standing on the edge of FD. He's about as heavy as Marth, who is still comparably light to other characters, but not too light to die from something like that without being stupid. Not even B-air will kill that ridiculously low. Or un-charged Eruption (which is still pretty punishable, especially after you release it). You don't play any Sonics at ALL do you?
- Ike off-stage is still limited by his reach and recovery. He can only go (and attack) so far, and once Sonic is inside a certain range, which extends further than this off-stage range, Sonic can use spring's invincibility frames then airdodge or whatever to get past Ike's edgeguard, if not attack him and reverse the roles. If Ike is under the stage (say, trying to hit someone on the edge with Ragnell at the apex of Aether), Sonic can just drop a spring and send Ike under the level, or further away. If Aether is used so that Ragnell flies too high, Sonic can just run under it and insta-edgehog, forcing Ike to either drop down to his death or land on the stage and suffer landing lag punishment. Further off-stage, all it takes is a disruptive F-air, early N-air, or even a spring to screw up an Ike recovery if he's too low.
Also, Sonic can recover from Aether Spike unless he's at an obscenely high %, so don't even bring that up `.`;
I've played some horrible and some decent Ikes as Sonic. The decent ones had better mindgames into their moves, and at the best it looked like it could have been a neutral-ish matchup against Sonic.
there's really no point in arguing it here, should have done it in the matchup's thread.
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Let me break it down for you.
- Sonic can find/force/get more punishment openings than Ike due to his speed and feints. Ike punishes harder per opening, but the openings for Ike are fewer.
- [edit] This was originally a detailed runthrough on how Sonic responds to Ike's most commonly used moves (jab/jabgrab/f-air/n-air), but I'll abridge it. Sonic's approaches aren't limited to normal attacks and aerials. Shieldgrabs, pshieldgrabs, and feint>disruptor/punishments (dash attack, spindash, grab, tilt) are all momentum starters for Sonic. Do an AAA combo, a non-retreating F-air, or miss an approach and Sonic can start his momentum with one of those.
- Sonic can die from an f-tilt at 60-70%. ...if he's doing downwards DI and is like, standing on the edge of FD. He's about as heavy as Marth, who is still comparably light to other characters, but not too light to die from something like that without being stupid. Not even B-air will kill that ridiculously low. Or un-charged Eruption (which is still pretty punishable, especially after you release it). You don't play any Sonics at ALL do you?
- Ike off-stage is still limited by his reach and recovery. He can only go (and attack) so far, and once Sonic is inside a certain range, which extends further than this off-stage range, Sonic can use spring's invincibility frames then airdodge or whatever to get past Ike's edgeguard, if not attack him and reverse the roles. If Ike is under the stage (say, trying to hit someone on the edge with Ragnell at the apex of Aether), Sonic can just drop a spring and send Ike under the level, or further away. If Aether is used so that Ragnell flies too high, Sonic can just run under it and insta-edgehog, forcing Ike to either drop down to his death or land on the stage and suffer landing lag punishment. Further off-stage, all it takes is a disruptive F-air, early N-air, or even a spring to screw up an Ike recovery if he's too low.
Also, Sonic can recover from Aether Spike unless he's at an obscenely high %, so don't even bring that up `.`;
I've played some horrible and some decent Ikes as Sonic. The decent ones had better mindgames into their moves, and at the best it looked like it could have been a neutral-ish matchup against Sonic.
Ike's jab, retreating F-air, and N-air have shorter openings for punishment, as Ike's most used moves. Bowser's more punishable, IMO.
there's really no point in arguing it here, should have done it in the matchup's thread.
