Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Morrigan]

No, once you drop your float you can't float again til you touch the ground.

 

[.Marik]

No, once you drop your float you can't float again til you touch the ground.

Ah, thank you very much. ^^

 

[Dark Sonic]

So uh... Ike is officially HURRICANE TIER.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,416261,00.html

 

[notftomearth7]

Why is Link so low? I don't understand

 

[Zinc Elemental]

So uh... Ike is officially HURRICANE TIER.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,416261,00.html

Just tell the people that get hit by the tornado to edgehog it.

 

[Gindler]

But you are just discussing the Peach vs. Zelda matchup. It has nothing to do with their tier list positioning (sorta).

Yeah, that'd be like discussing the yoshi vs. MK matchup. It'd just be a waste of time

 

[PrinceMarthX]

oh well too bad she can float all the way back to the stage and recover no matter what low angle you send her at anyway

wut. Peach's vertical recovery is AWFUL. If she's sent at around a 230 angle, there's no way to return because her jumps don't give her enough height.

but you can just let go of the jump button and airdodge just as quick as any other character so the airdodge argument doesnt really work.

That only works on paper. If you're trying to float towards Zelda, you won't have time to cancel your float and air dodge before you're hit with a Din's Fire. Floating is only a good idea if you're close enough to strike. So close that Zelda can't use Din's Fire before you hit her.

thats actually one of zeldas weaknesses in this battle, its rediculously easy to throw a turnip while your above zelda and wait for her to use it

Going above Zelda is suicide. Her up air is incredibly powerful and her up smash has godly priority. If Zelda can't use her Naryu's love to stop the turnips then she can simply catch them. Big weakness with Peach's projectile.

zelda is actually one of peaches best matchups.

Peach does not have the advantage over Zelda.

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

Yeah, that'd be like discussing the yoshi vs. MK matchup. It'd just be a waste of time

No, it would be discussing Yoshi versus Zelda and say Yoshi has a small advantage and then going, "OMG OMG YOSHI BEETS ZELDA SO HEE IZ DA BEST AND TOP TIER!!!"

I am not saying Peach shouldn't be higher on the tiers, but it is not because she has an advantage over Zelda. (I don't even know if that's true, I am just taking your guy's word for it.)

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Zelda has less defense than peach and she k.o's at more lower percentages than peach

The KO difference between Zelda and Peach is only 2% horizontally and 8% vertically. They're both considered light weights. Not really enough for the difference to matter.

 

[Browny]

wut. Peach's vertical recovery is AWFUL. If she's sent at around a 230 angle, there's no way to return because her jumps don't give her enough height.

lol, no attack sends them at that angle except a spike, which would KO any character anyway. i dont think even jiggs' dsmash at the edge sends them that low

 

[PrinceMarthX]

lol, no attack sends them at that angle except a spike, which would KO any character anyway. i dont think even jiggs' dsmash at the edge sends them that low

At high damage, Zelda's does. It sends them up a little bit then sends them at a downward angle. It's like a half circle. That angle is why it's so deadly.

 

[HeroMystic]

Why is Link so low? I don't understand

Because of his "oh so horrible" recovery. If Sakurai didn't gimp the **** outta it, he would be higher.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Going above Zelda is suicide. Her up air is incredibly powerful and her up smash has godly priority. If Zelda can't use her Naryu's love to stop the turnips then she can simply catch them. Big weakness with Peach's projectile.


Peach does not have the advantage over Zelda.

No. Zelda's forte is ground work her aerial game is ****.
Uair is rather slow and easily predicted and Usmash is easily predicted as well.

She is terrible at aerial combat.
Thats the only thing she can do.
Nair/Uair/Nayru/Usmash/Utilt

Thats it and because she isn't very fast its not like she has a very good chance of hitting.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Uair is rather slow and easily predicted and Usmash is easily predicted as well.

Doesn't really matter if up smash is predictable because it outpriotizes almost any attack. You cannot attack Zelda from above without being caught in it. You can't SDI quickly enough to avoid being damaged at all either.

Underestimating Zelda is a bad idea.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Doesn't really matter if up smash is predictable because it outpriotizes almost any attack. You cannot attack Zelda from above without being caught in it. You can't SDI quickly enough to avoid being damaged at all either.

Underestimating Zelda is a bad idea.

Why would you even bother trying to attack her anyway?
The point of it is to bait it then dodge it then punish.
The Usmash stays out for a good amount of time so if she whiffs it then she will get smashed.
She does not have the ability to force the opponent into a Uait/Utilt/Usmash.

How many character can actually bother attacking when an opponent is below them anyway?
Not many I guarantee you that.


one statement=/=underestimating.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Why would you even bother trying to attack her anyway?
The point of it is to bait it then dodge it then punish.
The Usmash stays out for a good amount of time so if she whiffs it then she will get smashed.
She does not have the ability to force the opponent into a Uait/Utilt/Usmash.

How many character can actually bother attacking when an opponent is below them anyway?
Not many I guarantee you that.


one statement=/=underestimating.

You speak as if that wold always work. It would work once against a smart opponent. Then they would immediately catch on.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

As far as Peach and Zelda goes. It's either 60:40 in favor of Zelda or 50:50

Peach has the advantage in weight by a little bit but it doesn't come close to making up the difference in their knock back.

Both of their recoveries leave much to be desired. Peach's is good at horizontally but bad at vertically and Zelda's is about the opposite. Very difficult to sweet spot the ledge that way.

In terms of KO ability, Zelda wins by a land slide. Her attacks have a lot more knock back. This is the biggest difference between the two and is the biggest reason why 60:40 is possible. Zelda will be able to kill her so much easier.

Din's Fire is the better projectile because it can't be caught, has a large hit box and incredible distance. But Peach can toad them if she's not floating. Peach's turnsips can be caught or reflected by Naryu's love. Since Peach can hold onto her turnip, it's better at close range. So close that Zelda can't use Din's Fire without being struck. So overall for projectiles: Long distance: Zelda, short distance: Peach

Zelda beats Peach in priority with most of her attacks. I don't think anything of Peach's can beat Zelda's forward or up smash.

They have about equal range.

Two of Zelda's best attacks are down tilt and down smash. If Peach is floating then neither will hit. But Zelda could potentially blow her away with a forward or up smash. (depending on high she's floating) Nonetheless, Zelda is at a disadvantage if Peach floats up close since she loses the ability to use her quickest attacks.

 

[Gindler]

I think the reason you're giving zelda suck props is because he Usmash pretty much destroys luigi's aerial game (if you're really a luigi main)

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Zelda is a secondary of mine. I know how she handles pretty well.

 

[gantrain05]

wut. Peach's vertical recovery is AWFUL. If she's sent at around a 230 angle, there's no way to return because her jumps don't give her enough height.

her vertical recovery is NOT as bad as you are making it out to be, trust me, i've played so many peach vs zelda matches i know how the Dsmash affects her very well, and its not enough to score a K.O. with.

That only works on paper. If you're trying to float towards Zelda, you won't have time to cancel your float and air dodge before you're hit with a Din's Fire. Floating is only a good idea if you're close enough to strike. So close that Zelda can't use Din's Fire before you hit her.

no, not only does it work on paper, it works in real life too!!! imagine that, the only way you could possible NOT airdodge is if you have the slowest reflexes on earth, seriously, all it is is just letting go of X or whatever your jump button is and simultaneously pressing dodge.

of course DIRECTLY above zelda is suicide, thats why peach can control how high she floats, you can go just above her Fsmash but low enough to drop and Fair if she messes up or even start a Dair combo
Going above Zelda is suicide. Her up air is incredibly powerful and her up smash has godly priority. If Zelda can't use her Naryu's love to stop the turnips then she can simply catch them. Big weakness with Peach's projectile.



Peach does not have the advantage over Zelda.

meh, i disagree lol.

 

[PK-ow!]

Because of his "oh so horrible" recovery. If Sakurai didn't gimp the **** outta it, he would be higher.

Oh come on. How exactly could we make sense of any recovery that was better than that? Link has to fast fall and he has to have the whirling blade - he would have a poor recovery in every possible world.

 

[Kaptain Bidoof]

Tiers are for Queers

 

[missingnomaster]

With a first post like that, you know nothing good is gonna come from him.

And stop giving 08ers a bad name.

 

[viparagon]

Tiers are for Queers

Oh wow, are you original. Whats that from anyway

/sarcasm

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Guys, I have a suggestion for dealing with the "tiers are for queers" posters. Let's ignore them!

 

[popsofctown]

Zelda's upair is one of the worst aerials in the game...

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Zelda's upair is one of the worst aerials in the game...

Says the person who thinks Din's Fire is one of the worst projectiles. Up air is good if you can catch them off guard by being quick. Knock them up and chase after them with an up air. Its power and disjointed hitbox makes it nowhere near the worst.

 

[Gindler]

Power and disjointed. Super Slow start up and ending lag, extremely predictable, in order to air dodge you don't have to predict as it's so slow you can see it coming, wait a second (exaggeration of course), then airdodge. I wouldn't say it's the worst aerial, falco's and pika's fairs are pretty gargabe and only good for mayeb adding 2% damage at the end of a "combo" or something. Still you have to agree that her Uair is one of the most situational, great in doubles though i'd say though.

 

[Onxy]

I think someone's confusing "slow start up" with telegraphing.

 

[HeroMystic]

Oh come on. How exactly could we make sense of any recovery that was better than that? Link has to fast fall and he has to have the whirling blade - he would have a poor recovery in every possible world.

Two words.

Bomb Jump.

 

[Gindler]

I think someone's confusing "slow start up" with telegraphing.

Quite possible, you're more clever than I am

 

[gantrain05]

Power and disjointed. Super Slow start up and ending lag, extremely predictable, in order to air dodge you don't have to predict as it's so slow you can see it coming, wait a second (exaggeration of course), then airdodge. I wouldn't say it's the worst aerial, falco's and pika's fairs are pretty gargabe and only good for mayeb adding 2% damage at the end of a "combo" or something. Still you have to agree that her Uair is one of the most situational, great in doubles though i'd say though.

no freakin way, pikas Nair is actually a good arial, and actually has ko potential, but as for falco's i can't actually think of it right now, but i don't remember any of his arials being so bad. you want the worst arial in the game thats easy, bowsers Dair is far and away the worst arial ever.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You speak as if that would always work. It would work once against a smart opponent. Then they would immediately catch on.

not always but most of the time. Zelda cannot chase period, so its not like you're going to be extremely worried about the Uair lest you wished to be a ******* and Dair towards her.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

@ gantrain: he was talking about the fairs, not the nairs
Pikachus fair is very good good, quick, hood damage dealer( not 2 %) and combo finsher and starter.... it sucked in melee a LOT
And about zeldas uair, its not so hard to land, the zelda can wait you airdodge and then own you... and has very good ko potential

 

[ShadowLink84]

Except that you don't have to airdodge until her arm moves.
You can react based on her movement and she can't chase very weill either.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

You can actually combo Pikachu's fair into a grab if you have good timing and spacing.

 

[Gindler]

Ahhh, so the weak/no knockback is actually good for pikachu then? just seemed like a ness fair with alot less range to me but sounds better than that now, so still better than zelda's Uair

 

[DanGR]

Says the person who thinks Din's Fire is one of the worst projectiles. Up air is good if you can catch them off guard by being quick. Knock them up and chase after them with an up air. Its power and disjointed hitbox makes it nowhere near the worst.

Dude, he's right about both. >_> What makes you think Din's fire is good?

 

[Xeze]

Dude, he's right about both. >_> What makes you think Din's fire is good?

Din's Fire is good against some characters, however it is useless agains speedy characters like Sonic, Falcon, Fox, Zamus etc. because it leaves you wide open and after using it, your foe can easily approach and attack you.

 

[DanGR]

Din's Fire is good against some characters, however it is useless agains speedy characters like Sonic, Falcon, Fox, Zamus etc. because it leaves you wide open and after using it, your foe can easily approach and attack you.

Even against large and slow characters it doesn't apply enough pressure to make it any big threat. It's easy to roll and shield with those characters. I'd rather have link's boomerang, no joke.

And to STH if you're reading this, lol- I don't hate zelda, I just know a lot about her. When people stay dumb things about her, I want to correct them. Just as I do when people say Olimar is easy peasy gimpage. It just isn't true at against better Olimars.