Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[chckn]

So, in conclusion, there's really not one amazing thing to base a tier list off of. Tourney results, matchups, potential, and even personal experience all have a near equal role in determining a tier list. It just so happens that of these things, tourney results are the most concrete and factual, yet they still are quite flawed.

So if I personally play really good Jigglypuffs I should take that into account as much as tournament results when making a tier list?

 

[Crizthakidd]

i have the hardest time vs good diddy players. anyone face pro diddy players? lol like wtf are you suposed to do if your trying to dodge and keep bananas off the field the whole match

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

However, Jigglypuff has a whole lot of problems. Lack of range, killing moves other than rollout and fsmash, and her ability to gimp peoples recoveries isn't as good at MK.

Maybe next time use a character you actually know something about as reference?

Jiggly's most prominent kill-moves are sweet-spotted fair and dair-to-rest, rollout flat out sucks and f-smash is the definition of laggy, heck, I kill more people with my bair or uair than with my f-smash...
Also, her DI-game helps her "lack of range", especially with fair, where you just need to DI to your opponent, hit with the sweetspot and DI back, giving it that bit of extra range and making it harder to punish (although there's barely any lack to punish anyways). Fair's range isn't even that bad.

I'm not saying Jiggly beats MK, lol, not at all, I'm just saying your argument is flawed, why not comment on her weight and lack of priority, her real problems, instead of sucking some stuff out of your thumb, okay?

 

[Dpete]

So if I personally play really good Jigglypuffs I should take that into account as much as tournament results when making a tier list?

Sure.

Spoiler

10jiggs.

 

[metalmonstar]

I was bored so I did the math and Mew2king make up a little less that 120 points for Dedede. He also seconds metaknight so that means metaknight got a nice boost, not that metaknight needed it anyway. Tournament data is and can be useful we just can't look at it blindly. "Oh look Ness has 30 points he must be higher than we expected." "Oh look Timotee won a 70 person tournament with Ness and has bumped him up higher than he probably should be." If you want to use tournament data I suggest we start looking past the ranking list and looking at Ankoku's source. Then we have data but it is still up to the tier list creator's interpretation.

 

[EggZavier]

My tier list.

Top: Metaknight, Snake, G&W, Falco, and King dedede
High:Marth, Lucario, Wolf, Toonlink, Pit, Diddykong, Ice Climbers, R.0.B, and Wario
Middleikachu, Fox, Mario, Ivysaur, Olimar, Luigi, Ike , Squirtle, and Charzard
Loweach, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Bowser, Ness, Kirby, and DonkeyKong
Bottom:Samus, Captain Falcon, Sheik, Link, Lucas, Ganondorf, and Zelda

Bottom tier Does not mean that character is bad but underused.

 

[Mmac]

My tier list.

Top: Metaknight, Snake, G&W, Falco, and King dedede
High:Marth, Lucario, Wolf, Toonlink, Pit, Diddykong, Ice Climbers, R.0.B, and Wario
Middleikachu, Fox, Mario, Ivysaur, Olimar, Luigi, Ike , Squirtle, and Charzard
Loweach, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Bowser, Ness, Kirby, and DonkeyKong
Bottom:Samus, Captain Falcon, Sheik, Link, Lucas, Ganondorf, and Zelda

Bottom tier Does not mean that character is bad but underused.

No... Just.... No

 

[Pieisthebest]

Most up to date character rankings chart:

S: Snake, Meta Knight
A: King Dedede, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Marth
B: ROB, Falco, Lucario, Olimar, Donkey Kong
C: Ice Climbers, Wolf, Fox, Pit, Kirby, Diddy Kong, Zero Suit Samus
D: Peach, Ness, Zelda, Toon Link, Pikachu, Sonic, Ike, Samus, Pokémon Trainer, Bowser, Luigi
E: Lucas, Mario, Jigglypuff, SheikZelda, Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Link
U: Ganondorf, Sheik

Dedede is back down with the rest of the A ranks

Wario > Marth
B rank is now all the past A ranks + DK
C rank is really nice, a bunch of mid tiers as it seems
The first half of D ranks also seem mid tierish

nuff said

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Most up to date character rankings chart:

S: Snake, Meta Knight
A: King Dedede, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Marth
B: ROB, Falco, Lucario, Olimar, Donkey Kong
C: Ice Climbers, Wolf, Fox, Pit, Kirby, Diddy Kong, Zero Suit Samus
D: Peach, Ness, Zelda, Toon Link, Pikachu, Sonic, Ike, Samus, Pokémon Trainer, Bowser, Luigi
E: Lucas, Mario, Jigglypuff, SheikZelda, Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Link
U: Ganondorf, Sheik

Dedede is back down with the rest of the A ranks

Wario > Marth
B rank is now all the past A ranks + DK
C rank is really nice, a bunch of mid tiers as it seems
The first half of D ranks also seem mid tierish

nuff said

Yoshi above Falcon is LOL.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

My tier list.

Top: Metaknight, Snake, G&W, Falco, and King dedede
High:Marth, Lucario, Wolf, Toonlink, Pit, Diddykong, Ice Climbers, R.0.B, and Wario
Middleikachu, Fox, Mario, Ivysaur, Olimar, Luigi, Ike , Squirtle, and Charzard
Loweach, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Bowser, Ness, Kirby, and DonkeyKong
Bottom:Samus, Captain Falcon, Sheik, Link, Lucas, Ganondorf, and Zelda

Bottom tier Does not mean that character is bad but underused.

1. Where the hell is Sonic?
2. This list sucks
3. Where the hell is Sonic?

 

[Pieisthebest]

Yoshi above Falcon is LOL.

>_>

This is ankuko's most up to date tourney ranking by the way

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

>_>

This is ankuko's most up to date tourney ranking by the way

I know, I was just commenting on how a character who had next to no Tournament results for the entire summer has actually moved up above him.

 

[cman]

So how about that infinite metacape? Is this the new tier list?

Snake Tier:
MK

Top Tier:
Snake

Rest Tier:
Others

 

[Pieisthebest]

I know, I was just commenting on how a character who had next to no Tournament results for the entire summer has actually moved up above him.

Rick Wheeler is still the worst <.<

 

[GreyFox86]

as long as i know that zelda can win then its all green from here :D

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

as long as i know that zelda can win then its all green from here :D

Um... have you seen the new MK AT? Yeah... no one can win anymore except MK.

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

Um... have you seen the new MK AT? Yeah... no one can win anymore except MK.

Sad but true

 

[Blistering Speed]

What was it that bumped Yoshi? I know Pride has been winning or placing top 4 often but they were only small tournaments. What was it that suddenly ranked him?

 

[Mmac]

What was it that bumped Yoshi? I know Pride has been winning or placing top 4 often but they were only small tournaments. What was it that suddenly ranked him?

Bwett placed in the Top8 in 3 minor tournaments. and KO Placed also in the Top8 in a Major Tournament. If my calculations are correct, he's at 4.75625 now

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Um... have you seen the new MK AT? Yeah... no one can win anymore except MK.

It's likelyit will be banned, considering it's a major stalling technique that's completely anti-competitive. Granted, it COULD be used as a means to get out of a tight spot, but there would have to be a line between Stalling and actual usage of the technique.

 

[samdaballer]

1. Where the hell is Sonic?
2. This list sucks
3. Where the hell is Sonic?

sorry to break it to you, but sonic is garbage

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

I know the MK AT is probably going to be banned.
@samdaballer: Are you really a Squirtle main? Because I haven't seen you on the PT forums.

 

[Blistering Speed]

On the subject of the infinite stall, Yuna has already categorically stated that it is banned, in all situations, as it is impossible to accidentally.

 

[ShadowLink84]

sorry to break it to you, but sonic is garbage

...

*moves on to the topic at hand*

MK's new AT?
I saw that someone made a link earlier but the video was removed.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

@Sam: I don't think Sonic is garbage at all. I've played against good Sonics.

On the topic of tiers, I don't see him rising up very soon due to the infrequency of his use. I think any character can be played well, it just takes more time in some cases.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah any character can be played well but as you know, SNake and MK just outdo everyone when it comes to this =(

Yeah Soni can be used well but he won't be high tier. At best he can be upper mid tier but thats a stretch.

Either way he performs too well to be in low or bottom.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

I'm one of the noobs who will always say that tiers don't define the overall playability of a character. I run a fairly solid Captain and an intense PT but I don't expect them to leave low/bottom tier soon, if ever.

 

[cman]

So how about that infinite metacape? Is this the new tier list?

Snake Tier:
MK

Top Tier:
Snake

Rest Tier:
Others

I retract this statement, as it has already been declared banned. Back to your usual boring tier lists people.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Is MK's Down-B completely banned now?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Of course. It incapapble of being countered. Is stalling etc etc.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

So they just removed one of MK's basic attacks?!

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Even if they did, No who ever used it really >_>.

They wouldn't ban the move outright, they'd just ban the stalling potential it has, because it's completely impossible to stall with it on accident.

 

[cman]

It's really easy to tell if the move is done normally or if you are trying to extend it because you have to slam the c-stick really quickly. So the basic move isn't banned.

 

[gantrain05]

It's likelyit will be banned, considering it's a major stalling technique that's completely anti-competitive. Granted, it COULD be used as a means to get out of a tight spot, but there would have to be a line between Stalling and actual usage of the technique.

except when the hell is MK ever in a tight spot, nobody can combo him, he has absolutely 0 hitstun and has the fastest attacks in the game, there is no excuse for it lol.

 

[Mmac]

except when the hell is MK ever in a tight spot, nobody can combo him, he has absolutely 0 hitstun and has the fastest attacks in the game, there is no excuse for it lol.

Yoshi and a few others can ChainGrab him... Plus MK isn't a god anyways....

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Yoshi and a few others can ChainGrab him... Plus MK isn't a god anyways....

Yeah, he pretty much is.

 

[Pieisthebest]

Yeah, he pretty much is.

^Qouted for Truth

 

[Helikeldin]

if you are playing anyone even remotely good, big characters can't do a thing.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

if you are playing anyone even remotely good, big characters can't do a thing.

Prepare to be flamed.

 

[MysticKenji]

if you are playing anyone even remotely good, big characters can't do a thing.

King DDD.

Spoiler

10penguins