Official BBR Tier List v7

[BSP]

Please explain how a ruleset with 6 stages, 1 ban per player and DSR is going to work in a bo5 set XD

It said no DSR

I just realized no Halberd either...yeah...

 

[Dcold]

Apex Ruleset was the best Ruleset of all time, ALL TIME.

 

[Espy Rose]

Good thing today is opposite day.

 

[Keitaro]

Thanks for the input guys. Interesting to see.

Keep in mind that in the SKTAR ruleset you are allowed to ban a neutral.

@ John#: In the past I allowed Norfair, Luigi's Mansion, Green Greens, and Pictochat cause I liked variety in stages. For this tourney I allowed players to vote on what they wanted to see and included my own input into it. Most were for Japanese ruleset, but I didn't like not being able to ban a neutral so I added that and changed a couple other things around like lowering the lgl.

And I think this is much better than any ruleset including Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar imo. I'm willing to discuss that too. This isn't pure Japanese ruleset, keep that in mind.

i dont like the inconsistency in keitaro's stage images personally

sonic is on the left in 4 of them but lucario is on the left in the other 2

why not just change the font to comic sans for the last third of the ruleset too

PS1 is also spelled wrong, it's actually "Pokémon Stadium 1" with an accented e.

In the rules section, the first 2 points start with a number, the next three start with a letter, then the next two with a number, then three more with a letter, then 2 with a number, then 2 with a letter.

You should add another rule, which would obviously start with a letter, to make it even.

There is no stage called pokemon stadium 1

The official game name is denoted as: Pokémon Stadium

Pokémon Stadium 2 is the other stage and is denoted with a number for distinction.
Given there isn't another Pokémon Stadium in the ruleset, adding the 1 is superfluous

Why is Lylat tilted? Couldn't you have taken a picture when it was perfectly horizontal?

This photo-inconsistency is just sloppy

letters in SKTAR don't line up as they should thus giving the appearance that S and K are significantly larger than T, A, and R.


Keitaro namesearch and fix all the above listed problems soon, it is crucial for your future tournaments.

OMG wtf lolol!!

 

[C.J.]

Definitely needs Castle Siege.

Then just strike from all 7.

PLUS MK is bad on CS, so that's always good.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I love how the people that hate Keitaro's ruleset are the same people that everything else as well.

 

[Luxord]

I love how the people that hate Keitaro's ruleset are the same people that everything else as well.

I love how you just accidentally a sentence.

Anyways keit, thx for reading the commentary, all trolling aside =D
And I didn't know you allowed neutral banning, I could live with playing under that ruleset. Not my ideal choice, but I wouldn't skip a tournament due to it.

 

[Espy Rose]

Definitely needs Castle Siege.

Then just strike from all 7.

PLUS MK is bad on CS, so that's always good.

He's not bad on CS. He's just not great on it either.

I love how the people that hate Keitaro's ruleset are the same people that everything else as well.

I love to everything.

 

[Zano]

 

[-LzR-]

If someone could like... Tell why they suddenly decided to ban like 5 stages without any reason except "we can lol" and still leave FD as a starter. FD is by far the most powerful stage on that ruleset.

 

[ViperGold42]

these rules suck, I'm going back to melee where the rules CAN'T BE SCREWED!

 

[Zano]

As long as smashville is legal, Idgaf bout the stage list

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

these rules suck, I'm going back to melee where the rules CAN'T BE SCREWED!

Can I have your stuff?

 

[ViperGold42]

Can I have your stuff?

no soup for you!

 

[infiniteV115]

It said no DSR

I just realized no Halberd either...yeah...

I know it did, but Eddie G (the guy I quoted and responded to) implied that he would have liked it more if it had DSR.

 

[Keitaro]

If someone could like... Tell why they suddenly decided to ban like 5 stages without any reason except "we can lol" and still leave FD as a starter. FD is by far the most powerful stage on that ruleset.

A lot of players began watching the Japanese play after Apex and seem to like how most of their sets are very player vs player orientated compared to seeing people die to the stage flip on Frigate or getting sharked on Delphino/Halberd. I personally don't mind Castle Seige at all. My favorite stage list would be something inbetween the Apex and SKTAR ruleset. Probably the SKTAR ruleset plus Seige at least.

With the amount of stages on DSR is near impossible since each player must ban 2 stages leaving 4 left. For best of 3 sets it is possible but not for best of 5 sets.

As for Final being a neutral, it is actually like a trick lol. Both players are able to ban it and FD is the most banned stage out of all the available stages statically so there is over a 50% chance FD won't be able to be chosen anyway. In other words, although it is a neutral, you'll almost never see it anyway cause at least one of the two players will ban it.

That is similar to most other rule sets but instead of having to ban Orpheon and get cped to Delphino or FD anyway, you actually won't have to worry about Orpheon/Delphino and can get FD out the way and likely have to deal with very neutral stages (besides maybe Lylat but your opponent will likely ban that too.)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'd rather not be forced to waste one of my bans on FD just because of how polar it is in some of my match-ups.

 

[Keitaro]

I'd rather not be forced to waste one of my bans on FD just because of how polar it is in some of my match-ups.

I get ya, but sadly FD is a neutral on almost all rule sets and even if it is a counter pick it still must be banned in order to avoid it completely. At least with this rule set if you ban FD you will likely be cp-ed to a more neutral stage than something like Delphino/Orpheon. Depends on what characters you and your opponent are playing of course.

 

[C.J.]

I personally don't mind Castle Seige at all. My favorite stage list would be something inbetween the Apex and SKTAR ruleset. Probably the SKTAR ruleset plus Seige at least.

Nobody should mind it- it's a great stage.

Just add it in! You're in charge anyway!

He's not bad on CS. He's just not great on it either.

Fine, "comparatively bad" then.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I get ya, but sadly FD is a neutral on almost all rule sets and even if it is a counter pick it still must be banned in order to avoid it completely. At least with this rule set if you ban FD you will likely be cp-ed to a more neutral stage than something like Delphino/Orpheon. Depends on what characters you and your opponent are playing of course.

I feel ya, I'm not super fussy about rulesets when it comes to tournies.

A good player will make do with nearly any common ruleset haha

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of a personal stage ban. It almost implies that it's okay for the stagelist to be imbalanced, if only because you get to pick something dumb you don't want to play on.

 

[ATARi]

If you ask me

's are worst than

They can reverse 3 stock you in seconds and I feel as if they are more unfair.
And Im shocked that

is MID O_O

Meh....Too bad

and

are not even on boarder line Infact they can't do much against the higher tiers.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I disagree with you. Ness has the tools to stick it to many high tiers just by outplaying them a little. They're very obviously good options.

 

[Player-1]

@keitaro, rainbow cruise is a perfectly fine stage, it's much better for competitive play than random stages thst have a big affect on gameplay like halberd, frigate, and delfino

 

[infiniteV115]

I wouldn't say the randomness of any of those stages has a big affect on gameplay. Usually nothing happens when the stage flips on Frigate, good players don't usually get hit by the claw/bomb/laser on Halberd...and Delfino is like PS1/PS2, you know which transformation is coming cause it gives plenty of warning and the transformations themselves aren't random, only their order is random.

That said, RC, Halberd Frigate and Delfino are all fine stages. The only issue with RC is perhaps that MK is very strong there, so taking it out in an MK-legal ruleset is reasonable.

 

[ViperGold42]

I wouldn't say the randomness of any of those stages has a big affect on gameplay. Usually nothing happens when the stage flips on Frigate, good players don't usually get hit by the claw/bomb/laser on Halberd...and Delfino is like PS1/PS2, you know which transformation is coming cause it gives plenty of warning and the transformations themselves aren't random, only their order is random.

That said, RC, Halberd Frigate and Delfino are all fine stages. The only issue with RC is perhaps that MK is very strong there, so taking it out in an MK-legal ruleset is reasonable.

yet Luigi's Mansion is a CP and Skyworld is outright BANNED. doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Player-1]

I wouldn't say the randomness of any of those stages has a big affect on gameplay. Usually nothing happens when the stage flips on Frigate, good players don't usually get hit by the claw/bomb/laser on Halberd...and Delfino is like PS1/PS2, you know which transformation is coming cause it gives plenty of warning and the transformations themselves aren't random, only their order is random.

That said, RC, Halberd Frigate and Delfino are all fine stages. The only issue with RC is perhaps that MK is very strong there, so taking it out in an MK-legal ruleset is reasonable.

The flips aren't what's the problem for frigate, it's easily avoidable since you have plenty of time to see it coming and prepare for it, it's the time spent on each transformation is random is the problem. The 2 transformations are very distinct from one another so it makes huge impacts in game play on the stage. You can spend 2 minutes on the first transformation until it flips for 15 seconds and then changes back which is pretty dumb. Same can be said for Delfino's order. The only problem I have with Halberd is that Delux made a good point in a thread he made that basically said since the 'machine' (stage) can alter the 'scoreboard' (damage percentage) that it may constitute as gambling and is illegal in some states, beyond that I don't have a problem with it (unless the time spent on each transformation on this stage is also random, I'm unsure if it is).

 

[BSP]

Hmm, never heard that reasoning for removing Halberd before.

I wonder if YI could fall under that too with the Ghost saving people.

 

[z00ted]

LOL did DeLux really say that?
It's called skill when you recognize the claw/laser and shield.

 

[Player-1]

From a competitive standpoint I think halberd is fine since you can just react to all of the hazards and I'd definitely keep it legal. Delux said that he was looking for a venue and that he talked to the venue owner and the venue owner was worried about it possibly being gambling so delux went and looked stuff up about the gambling in his state or something and that's what came up so under those circumstances then I think banning halberd would be fine since...you know you kind of have to.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I have very little idea what your point was.
Halberd should be banned cause of gambling?

Oh wait, trolling should've guessed...
Halberd is fine, just keep it away from Snake Pikachu and Olimar. I don't see a need of removing it from any stagelist unless they wanna use... Keitaro's ruleset.

 

[Player-1]

I never Halberd should be banned because of gambling or that it should be banned at all, I was just listing that reasoning for it to be banned. My original point was that RC is a better legal stage than Halberd which it is.

 

[ViperGold42]

why in the world is Halberd even banned?

 

[z00ted]

Japanese Ruleset.

 

[-LzR-]

And the best reason to ban a stage is to say it's Japanese

 

[Nidtendofreak]

why in the world is Halberd even banned?

Because people are stupid and think less stages = good.

 

[Luxord]

I disagree with you. Ness has the tools to stick it to many high tiers just by outplaying them a little. They're very obviously good options.

Agreed^
fair is amazing as a lot of things can't beat it in the air when it's face to face (nothing of MKs does either)
goes thru nado, as does nair (sometimes?)

bthrow = heaviest scaling throw in the game, killing 100(GW, Jiggs) - 140(DK Snake) easily

oh and PKT is safe when they're offstage and it makes em either take one to the face or just recover awkward.


For stages I'd say RC is definitely better than Frigate in an MK banned tournament. I'm completely anti-ban, but RC isn't legal for my MK legal tournaments, it pretty much makes someone waste their ban and that's not really fair tbh.

 

[Espy Rose]

Fine, "comparatively bad" then.

Not quite right. "Comparatively neutral" sounds perfect though. MK isn't "bad" on any level.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of a personal stage ban. It almost implies that it's okay for the stagelist to be imbalanced, if only because you get to pick something dumb you don't want to play on.

It doesn't ALMOST imply it. It completely implies it.

 

[Player-1]

Agreed^
fair is amazing as a lot of things can't beat it in the air when it's face to face (nothing of MKs does either)
goes thru nado, as does nair (sometimes?)

bthrow = heaviest scaling throw in the game, killing 100(GW, Jiggs) - 140(DK Snake) easily

oh and PKT is safe when they're offstage and it makes em either take one to the face or just recover awkward.


For stages I'd say RC is definitely better than Frigate in an MK banned tournament. I'm completely anti-ban, but RC isn't legal for my MK legal tournaments, it pretty much makes someone waste their ban and that's not really fair tbh.

what do you mean it waste their ban? You're banning a stage that isn't in your char's favor and is in their favor, that's what bans are for. May as well ban FD then also since it pretty much makes someone 'waste' their ban against Falco, ICs, and Diddy.

 

[Eddie G]

Man...I kind of regret dropping Ness for Peach back in '08. Props to FOW/Shaky/etc. for showing people what the character is capable of.