Ionno- compare MK on CS to MK of SV/BF/Frigate and he seems "bad." CS really hinders him imo.Not quite right. "Comparatively neutral" sounds perfect though. MK isn't "bad" on any level.
He's still the best character in the game on the stage though.
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Official BBR Tier List v7
- Thread starter Marc
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He's still the best character in the game on the stage though.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Wtf
Luigi's Mansion is a CP?
I don't think I've ever seen a video of a set from a tournament that was on Luigi's Mansion. Lol.
Eddie G
Smash Hero
is still "above average" even on Castle Siege. No stage is truly a hindrance to him. As Espy said..."comparatively neutral" sounds like a good fit.@ Espy - For future reference, let's not get off on the wrong foot over that silly exchange earlier. I have mad amounts of respect for you as a player and debater/theorist. Just thought I'd let you know...
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Ok lemme rephrase what I think C.J was trying to say.
MK is less good on CS than he is on SV/BF/Frigate
MK is less good on CS than he is on SV/BF/Frigate
I definitely consider "less good" to be synonymous with "comparatively bad." Less good means he's better on other stages. If he's better on other stages, that means he's worse on this one compared to those. Since there's no "true zero" for "good" and "bad" and are instead on a continuum, being worse on a stage compared to others makes you "comparatively bad" on that stage.
This is inane.
Point is CS should definitely be legal.
This is inane.
Point is CS should definitely be legal.
In recent times, I can't remember the last tourney match on the stage.
BUT I can definitely remember the era of Mansion Norfair Green Greens Greenhill Zone Corneria PTAD etc. Don't even get me started on how many team matches I've had to do on some janky *** stage because of UTDZAC OR DPHAT THATS RIGHT GET IN HERE YOU 9HASD9H9HF9FA I HATE CORNERIA I HATE YOU ALL.
Thank GOD those stages are gone lol.
CS is better for MK than FD hands down. FD is probably his worst stage overall: it's not large enough for him to play keep away/lacks platforms to save him from anything strong like Falco IC's, no extreme boundaries or features that he can abuse, etc. He can abuse how large the second transformation is, or the platforms on the first part. Not to the same extent as BF or similar stage but it's still an improvement over FD. It is one of his weaker starters though, especially if you encompass stages like Delfino Halberd Lylat.
CS is also a better legal stage than Delfino or Frigate IMO. The only question with that stage is whether to make it a starter or not. Not "should it be legal" period.
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
ooooooooohhhhhhhh heeeeeellllllllllll noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Mid tier?
Because that's about all the fruits I've seen from their labor.
Of course not. I'm just having some fun.
I mean, how boring would it be if I was serious all the time?
Eddie G
Smash Hero
No Espy, rather...the ability to compete on more even ground (NOT truly even like some would suggest lmao) with and not get outright slaughtered from a neutral position like this little lamb:
Then again, I've been religiously practicing the ditto so it's pretty moot at this point I suppose.
And alright, point taken lol. It takes me a moment to adjust to a more dry sense of humor on the net (no offense intended).
and not get outright slaughtered from a neutral position like this little lamb: Then again, I've been religiously practicing the ditto so it's pretty moot at this point I suppose.
And alright, point taken lol. It takes me a moment to adjust to a more dry sense of humor on the net (no offense intended).
Eddie G
Smash Hero
I won't argue that, my edit kind of answers that question.
I disagree. The third part of CS is *essentially* the same as FD so I'm not going to talk about that part too much.
The second part is, essentially, negligible in most MU's since most characters can play keep-away against almost all other characters there (unless you're like DDD or Zelda or something). So you say he can "abuse" how large the second part of the stage is, but I really just see it the same way I view the fire and rock transformations on PS1; it's just a break in the match. Now if MK does approach there, he runs the severe risk of getting GR gay'd. Marth has GR->everything, Sheik/ZSS(inb4lolZSSgrab)/probably others have GR to regrab walk-off stuff. I'm sure a lot of other characters also have GR->stuff there as well. MK has... an earlier killing SL? That's about it.
This is left with the first part. The platforms are kinda blah for MK imo, especially compared to the benefits that other characters can get from them. The boundaries are fairly small which allows for earlier kills on MK as well. The stage is also very small which really hinders his ability to zone effectively and takes away a lot of chances for him to land safely with nado or out of a glide.
While there may be characters that do better vs MK on FD (Fox is the biggest one I can think of), overall I feel as though CS is still a worse stage for MK compared to FD.
CS is definitely a better stage than Delphino/Frigate/Halberd/YI:B though.
Unless you mean MK specifically, I don't think CS is better for him then Delfino Frigate or Halberd. I can slightly understand YI:B though.
Luxord
Smash Journeyman
IMO Diddy and Falco aren't as good on FD versus others to the same extent MK is good on RC if that makes sense. The only thing I'll agree with is ICs (and maybe Falco) on FD, but that's it.
Player-1
Smash Legend
that's not what you said though, you said 'wasting a ban'
Luxord
Smash Journeyman
what I mean is if it's played even slightly off, it isn't too hard for the MK to take it...whereas for ICs and Falco they need to play much more precise.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,303
YIB and Frigate are probably the two most problematic stages with this form of examination. I'd be more inclined to say yes to both. But they are nuanced arguments to be made in either case.
This tier of scrutiny exists outside the context of skill (player vs. player) context. If it changes the scoreboards (via hitbox in brawl) then it falls into that tier of scrutiny. This is in KS (and most states in the US). You can't deny that once a hazard hits you on halberd that it doesn't alter percents. That function exists outside of another player capitalizing on the stage element.
Zano
Smash Master
Yo, ban halberd, that ****ing claw lost me a game once
I once won a tournament due to it taking Kismet's last stock on Game 5.
Luxord
Smash Journeyman
pffft would won anyways 
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
The hazards on Halberd wouldn't impact a match any more than the item that Peach pulls out.
Vinylic.
Woke?
They're the random attacks pretty easy to notice too, so you have a major chance of avoiding it.
And besides, it's the only fun stage that's fair enough to not be banned.
Unless the players actually hit you directly to one of the lazer cannons or those bombs, I see no problem with it.
And besides, it's the only fun stage that's fair enough to not be banned.
Unless the players actually hit you directly to one of the lazer cannons or those bombs, I see no problem with it.
Luxord
Smash Journeyman
Pokémon Stadium 2*
and DACUS on ice by far has to be the sexiest thing in brawl
and DACUS on ice by far has to be the sexiest thing in brawl
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
PS2 is a snore fest. Awful stage for that reason.
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
and the original isnt?
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
The original one doesn't have the wind transformation.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I don't find the electric one very awesome.
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
that's a piss poor excuse to bash it, its just like the tourny***s who bash Brawl because it isn't like Melee.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
What.
If I can't bash it for something I don't like about it, what am I allowed to bash it for?
If I can't bash it for something I don't like about it, what am I allowed to bash it for?
M@v
Subarashii!
As much as I don't like ps2 as a competitive stage, I don't mind if someone cps me there because fox has hilarious gimmicks on almost all the transformations.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
M@v, could you please get some matches of your Fox vs. Melon's Puff asap :3
M@v
Subarashii!
There might be some older ones up on my youtube channel from when we were APEX practicing. Tgsmaverick is my channel. Im not 100% sure about fox, but I know there's Falco/Mk/marth vs puff matches on there.
As of now I'm opposite sides of the state of him because Penn state's on Summer break so I probably couldn't put new ones up until fall :3
As of now I'm opposite sides of the state of him because Penn state's on Summer break so I probably couldn't put new ones up until fall :3
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
No old videos of the MU I'm afraid, I just looked.
Gonna have to learn the nuances by recording my own matches, it seems. Thanks anyway.
Gonna have to learn the nuances by recording my own matches, it seems. Thanks anyway.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Grim only hates the air transformation on PS2 cause he plays Puff and she can't get back to the ground.
When you play a character like ZSS or Pikachu, the wind transformation is a lot of fun.
Edit: And the most fun stage in the game is Norfair. Then Picto.
When you play a character like ZSS or Pikachu, the wind transformation is a lot of fun.
Edit: And the most fun stage in the game is Norfair. Then Picto.
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