Official BBR Tier List v7

[Neon!]

The best wario's in the world have lost to Lucas (Gluttony) and Ness (Abadango) while Salem beat two of the best MK's in the world along with all of the best marths.

There's no reason zss shouldnt be above wario.

 

[*_Echo_*]

Why the heck does that matter? Salem showed the true potential of ZSS, just like ESAM did with Pika and ADHD and Gnes did with Diddy. Saying that Salem's accomplishments don't show what ZSS can do is silly.



You come in here late and miss all the data I gave showing exactly what you're asking for and then you claim that ZSS hasn't proven herself.

if ZSS is really as good as you say then there should be at least someone else able to put up similar results to him. NR's arent close to winning anything such as 1st at APEX with MK legal.

Olimars have shown that not only Brood could beat M2K with him but so can guys like Dabuz even guys like Denti from Texas have shown that MK isnt as bad of a MU anymore and that Olimar can place top 8 in an international tournament.

I'd like to see that from ZSS players before we start saying shes top tier.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

WHEN HAS WARIO WON A NATIONAL????!!!!!!! TOP TIER = ABOVE OLIMAR? WHAT?

caps

 

[Spelt]

I'm waiting for someone to post something stupid so I can make fun of it and then leave but you guys are being boring.



























lol olimar's still #2.

 

[*_Echo_*]

WHEN HAS WARIO WON A NATIONAL????!!!!!!! TOP TIER = ABOVE OLIMAR? WHAT?

caps

My point is to find out if ZSS deserves top tier not if wario doesnt.

i wasnt comparing characters I was showing that other characters have some back up not just one person dominating. The exception being Pika and thats because Pika is really that good and deserves the spot not to mention ESAM has been consistent and Salem has won one tourny.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Look back through the thread to see the other results ZSS has had over the last couple of years

Salem didn't just win one tourney, he won one of the largest tourneys ever beating several noteworthy players. You can't do that with Lucario, or Toon Link.

At the very least ZSS deserves her own tier between where she is now and top tier. At the very least.

 

[bubbaking]

if ZSS is really as good as you say then there should be at least someone else able to put up similar results to him. NR's arent close to winning anything such as 1st at APEX with MK legal.

Olimars have shown that not only Brood could beat M2K with him but so can guys like Dabuz even guys like Denti from Texas have shown that MK isnt as bad of a MU anymore and that Olimar can place top 8 in an international tournament.

I'd like to see that from ZSS players before we start saying shes top tier.

So you just ignored my data AND you ignored what I said about ESAM and Pikachu..... Alright then...

 

[*_Echo_*]

Look back through the thread to see the other results ZSS has had over the last couple of years

Salem didn't just win one tourney, he won one of the largest tourneys ever beating several noteworthy players

And I'd like to see more consistency out of Salem or other ZSS before we say she deserves the spot.

obviously her past results weren't good enough to get her top tier in this tier list.

 

[bubbaking]

You also totally ignored that ZSS has been earning really good results since 2010. Am I really gonna have to re-quote all my stuff?

My point is to find out if ZSS deserves top tier not if wario doesnt.

i wasnt comparing characters I was showing that other characters have some back up not just one person dominating. The exception being Pika and thats because Pika is really that good and deserves the spot not to mention ESAM has been consistent and Salem has won one tourny.

You're showing right here that you are being very partial to Pikachu to the point of being biased. Give me just ONE international that ESAM has one. Heck, just give me a regular national.

Also, we SHOULD be comparing characters to discuss tier list spots and changes.

 

[*_Echo_*]

So you just ignored my data AND you ignored what I said about ESAM and Pikachu..... Alright then...

ESAM has Proved pika. One international tourney does not prove a characters worth. If Salem got top 8 or top 16 in a few big tourneys in a good amount of time then sure I'd consider her top tier material at that point.

EDIT: MK for example has proved he's the best character in the game CONSISTENTLY. Not just once or twice.

 

[bubbaking]

I guess re-quotes are comin'. You really don't know what you're talking about....

Here, educate yourself before you argue:

My mention of NR's great placements during every MLG 2010 circuit was simply to show that ZSS has been placing well for an extremely long time now without the warranted raise on the list that kind of performance deserves. If you really want me to re-list all my data, complete with dates and MK-legality, then here you go:

• IMPULSE - 6/30/2012 - V115 gets 4th out of 69 entrants - MK-banned
• SKTAR - 7/17/2012 - Salem gets 17th out of 140 entrants - MK-legal
• Smashed Together - 7/28/2012 - NR gets 2nd out of 37 entrants - MK-banned
• WHOBO 4 - 8/4/2012 - NR gets 5th out of 96 entrants - MK-banned
• APEX 2013 - 1/11/2013 - Salem gets 1st out of ??? - MK-legal

Are you really going to claim that my information is outdated or partial?

Edit: And as I already stated, this just means that ZSS can do extremely well or win, whether MK is legal or not. Introducing him won't stop her. Salem stomped on how many MKs again?

So I got really interested in NR's MLG 2010 results, so I checked some (maybe all?) of them out. What I found surprised me and I'm surprised ZSS never rose any higher on the tier list than she was back then and that it seriously took so long just for her to be placed over Lucario. My findings:

1. MLG Orlando - Top 12 out of 183 entrants
2. MLG Dallas - Top 14 out of 182 entrants
3. MLG D.C. - Top 24 (17th) out of 174 entrants
4. MLG Columbus - 3rd out of 250 entrants

After so many extremely good placings, especially that last one, how did ZSS not end up in Top Tier in 2010? Rather she was always below Lucario and she was even below TL and Pit for a time...

 

[*_Echo_*]

SKtar and APEX are the only note worthy MK legal tourneys you referenced which both had Salem placing high and not any other ZSS.

why is Olimar top tier? Two Olis in top 32 at APEX. Two Olis in top 16 at SKtar and zero ZSS's.

Why does MK get his own tier? Because theres like 4-5 separate MKs in APEX's top 8. Tons on MK's in top 16 at SKtar along with some Marths and some high placing IC's.

CONSISTENCY.

You don't gotta win just have good consistent results.

 

[bubbaking]

Just a second ago, you were commenting on how ZSS' results weren't enough to get her into Top Tier in past years. You were pretty quick to change key there...

Edit: Btw, you missed that NR also got top 32 at APEX 2013, so if you wanna play that game, then there, two ZSS in top 32 of APEX. Problem?

 

[*_Echo_*]

Just a second ago, you were commenting on how ZSS' results weren't enough to get her into Top Tier in past years. You were pretty quick to change key there...

You have mentioned two note worthy tourneys with a high placing ZSS. She hasn't proven a thing to me yet. All the other top tier characters have proven their worth that spot for a good long time whether that time be a few years back (wario probably) or in the recent years, NOT MONTHS.

EDIT: Ah missed NR in top 32. This is still rather new placings for her. Shes not used to getting this high in big tournaments till recently. I wanna see more in the coming years before we rush to the hype of saying shes top tier.

 

[Tesh]

Just a second ago, you were commenting on how ZSS' results weren't enough to get her into Top Tier in past years. You were pretty quick to change key there...

Edit: Btw, you missed that NR also got top 32 at APEX 2013, so if you wanna play that game, then there, two ZSS in top 32 of APEX. Problem?

ZSS> Snake

All the Snakes that didnt use MK for backup placed 33rd or lower.

 

[bubbaking]

SKtar and APEX are the only note worthy MK legal tourneys you referenced which both had Salem placing high and not any other ZSS.

why is Olimar top tier? Two Olis in top 32 at APEX.

ZSS got 1st and 25th at APEX '13. Olimar got 7th and 25th. Try harder pl0x.

 

[*_Echo_*]

you forgot my reference to SKtar as well.

Also yes I am trolling. Its quite fun to be away from this game for two years or so and argue with people acting like a know something xD

 

[ぱみゅ]

ZSS> Snake

All the Snakes that didnt use MK for backup placed 33rd or lower.

Just for reference, which sets did Ally use MK?

Also, I'm pretty sure Ally is very capable to place top 16 even if he would've went Snake-only.


Not countering your point, Snakes have been stepping back a lot lately....

 

[bubbaking]

Not at Apex '13.

This isn't 2010 when Ally was a god and rivaled M2K for best Brawl player in the world. People have stepped up to the plate. Even M2K's reign is no longer concrete.

Snake is also much less of a threat now than he was back then because people have figured him out and his metagame has begun to stale. There isn't really much more to be developed with him.

 

[Sinister Slush]

WHEN HAS WARIO WON A NATIONAL????!!!!!!! TOP TIER = ABOVE OLIMAR? WHAT?

caps

Not a national but which tournament was it when Gluttony beat Ally and got first?

 

[Tesh]

That was a national. Just of a smaller nation.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

1. ZSS has had the results and has been a good enough character to move to top tier since well before Apex.
2. No one is asking that ZSS move above Wario because of Apex. That's old news. If they're asking for more than Wario, Apex might have something to do with that. Apex is the cherry on top.
3. Winning even one international/major tournament with the best players is absolutely a very big deal. Few characters have ever won a national even once, and only MK has done it twice or more, with the possible exception of Snake in like 2010?
4. It's true that ZSS is not as consistent or as strong a character as MK or Olimar, but on the other hand, no one is asking for ZSS to move up to Olimar or MK tier.
5. And to follow that point, ZSS' results are absolutely as good as or better than Pikachu's or Marth's, and ZSS is at least as good a character.

There's a ton of bull**** in this thread still. No one wants ZSS to move up because of one tournament, people want ZSS to move up because ZSS has been doing at least as well as B tier for a while now and now she's also won a major.

If you are really arguing that this is "just one tournament" you haven't really been paying attention.

 

[Browny]

And in that one moment, zero suit samus did more than marth has ever done all combined, in 58 months of brawl.

Even if it was just 1 time, thats still two times more than marth has done it el oh el.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I've always thought of ZSS a top tier character. Just this tournament further feeds my belief in that.

 

[Spelt]

you forgot my reference to SKtar as well.

Also yes I am trolling. Its quite fun to be away from this game for two years or so and argue with people acting like a know something xD

That was some awful trolling.

So bad Browny's doing a better job.

 

[Sunnysunny]

lol olimar's still #2.

You're a number two!
>:C

Spoiler

Hi spelt. <3

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

And in that one moment, zero suit samus did more than marth has ever done all combined, in 58 months of brawl.

Even if it was just 1 time, thats still two times more than marth has done it el oh el.

Browny, I knew one day you would see the light. <3

 

[Shaya]

ZSS just did more than what Ice Climbers, Diddy Kong, Marth, Snake, Pikachu and Wario have ever done.

ZSS for no.3 behind Olimar ahead of ICs.

Because international events are all that matters!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Well, if it Marth who had won he'd move up 10 spots to -3rd on the next tier list

Marth: golden boy of smash community

 

[Shaya]

As long as you keep your head above murky waters SFP. Associating with Browny trolling is BAD.

If Marth won he'd maybe retake 5th place. Like, there's a tier (or two) above Marth, and which one or two characters in the tier he's meant to be in have been kinda... always arguable for interchange.

I've been fine with ZSS joining that tier for a while. Poor Lucario. Maybe one day a japanese toon link will come along. And maybe someone will become a power shielding shield smash di pro and win everything with dedede. It's all possible.

 

[Browny]

if only that rankings list still existed... how far would this push zss up lol.

Sigh again with the 'trolling' comments. No, my post was not inflammatory, it was not off-topic or insulting, it was just a silly comment.
No more silly than implying marth is a top 7 character!

Its all opinions! weeeee

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Toon Link, I'd argue it might be possible. Dedede, maybe not. The kind of ridiculously awesome you'd need to be tech skill wise with Dedede to break him is at borderline impossible level. Consistent shield SDI and a few of his more broken chaingrab techs are almost out of range of human capability.

Still though if a Marth player had won Apex there would be people arguing that he's 2nd best in the game again, and they would be taken seriously. What a joke.

 

[Z'zgashi]

1. ZSS has had the results and has been a good enough character to move to top tier since well before Apex.
2. No one is asking that ZSS move above Wario because of Apex. That's old news. If they're asking for more than Wario, Apex might have something to do with that. Apex is the cherry on top.
3. Winning even one international/major tournament with the best players is absolutely a very big deal. Few characters have ever won a national even once, and only MK has done it twice or more, with the possible exception of Snake in like 2010?
4. It's true that ZSS is not as consistent or as strong a character as MK or Olimar, but on the other hand, no one is asking for ZSS to move up to Olimar or MK tier.
5. And to follow that point, ZSS' results are absolutely as good as or better than Pikachu's or Marth's, and ZSS is at least as good a character.

There's a ton of bull**** in this thread still. No one wants ZSS to move up because of one tournament, people want ZSS to move up because ZSS has been doing at least as well as B tier for a while now and now she's also won a major.

If you are really arguing that this is "just one tournament" you haven't really been paying attention.

This.

Shaya, stop whining because you think Marth is good and everyone else knows shes not, Echo, please use common sense, logic, and please just pick one opinion and stick to it instead of constantly switching around your stances, and bubba, stop fueling all their obviously flawed arguments.

ZSS > Wario (it shouldve been like this forever ago anyway), MK/Oli/ICs/etc > ZSS, and anyone who argues that Pika/Marth have better results than ZSS are straight up ********.

 

[Shaya]

Maybe Marth is the same calibre as the second best in the game (i.e. joins that tier of goodies). But I think people are liking ICs consistency more than Marth right now.

Zz, I don't think you have any idea what you just said.

 

[DeLux]

Except ICs are bad Shaya

 

[Shaya]

You're right DeLux.

Let's just leave our D tier characters where they are. I'm pretty sure us D tier character mains are proud of our Apex achievements.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Fun fact, back in 2009 Claw and another west coast ZSS main were on a team together, ZSS at the time was D tier and like 17th in the game, and the team was called "Double D Tier"

 

[DeLux]

D might be drastic
Bottom of B or top of C is more accurate for ICs imo

No need for hyperbole Shaya

 

[Shaya]

Oh sheesh DeLux, no hyperbole? Then what's left of this thread other than ganondorf is manly posts?

I mean, but think about it DeLux, ICs didn't even win apex. Overhyped PoS, must join Marth in the realms of D tier along with ROB (he's totally better than E tier) and Falco.

 

[DeLux]

Good point, shall I lock the thread?