Official BBR Tier List v7

[RaptorTEC]

I find it weird I can someimes DJ out of the middle of MK's tornado with Yoshi. Keep in mind he has super armor. Not sure if all MK's suck or if Yoshi can sometimes dj out

 

[Kuro~]

Eh. I'm one of those people who puts no effort in when online.

Brain turns off.

AKA grammar police me all you want.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

SFP, correct me if I'm interpreting your latest post wrong, but you're basically saying that ZSS doing so well in MK-banned tourneys is an even larger indicator that she should move up?

No, I'm saying nothing like that. I'm saying ZSS doing well in MK-banned tournaments is actually harder than MK-legal tournaments for ZSS. When people complain that ZSS' good results are from MK-banned tourneys, they don't realize that MK-banned is probably harder for her than when he's legal (not that it's a valid complaint anyway, she does pretty well at both).

You can't DI or SDI MK Tornado except for the first and last hit. Getting out, besides janky SDI on the first hit, is not really up to the player getting hit lol. Floaty/short characters tend to get swept up and out because certain hitbox/es of Tornado near the bottom do so, not because you were mashing jump/DI up

I am fairly sure that you can only DI the first hit. The remaining hits have a 0 SDI mod so you can't SDI the later hits or something. Peach can reliably hold up when hit by tornado and just float out, every time for example.

Kprime name search activate!

 

[bubbaking]

Well, it's really to the same effect then. Her doing well in MK-banned tourneys proves her viability against the other chars when he's not around. Besides, as I've stated, we have a good chunk of both MK-legal and MK-banned tourney data, so there really shouldn't be an issue...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Uh, you could interpret it that way, but that's not what I was trying to say. Not that it matters since the tier list assumes a MK legal tournament. ZSS has a very good (compared to the rest of the cast anyway) MK match-up and there are a ton of MKs, so when he's around she has a better shot. That's all I'm saying. In an MK-illegal environment her viability might drop off somewhat, but not significantly.

And also keep in mind this is just my opinion on the subject and might not even really reflect what would really happen, it's hard to say.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Eh. I'm one of those people who puts no effort in when online.

Brain turns off.

AKA grammar police me all you want.

I'm pretty sure it was, P-1, 4God, DRN, Flea.

 

[Kuro~]

I'm pretty sure it was, P-1, 4God, DRN, Flea.

Really? Flea was there? wdf.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Are you talking about the FL tourney where i housed like, 4 GA people and we had to park infront of the megabus as it was leaving?

 

[Kuro~]

No. We're talking about the apex 2013 qualifier.

I think.

 

[bubbaking]

Alright guys, sheesh! Here are the Smashed Together results:

Spoiler

Brawl Singles: 5$ Entry (37 entrants)

1: ESAM ($101.75)
2: Nick Riddle ($46.25)
3: Shaky ($27.75)
4: Mampam ($9.25)
5: MVD
5: Kyon
7: Xaltis
7: DJ Jack
9: 8bitman
9: GDX
9: Seibrik
9: Trump
13: True Blue
13: iPresea
13: Sylphic
13: Noa
17: Lies
17: Apple Jelly
17: kooky
17: Ed
17: Gambit (bday)
17: Kuro
17: ExDeath
17: Master RAAAAAAAAAAAAVEN
25: Megalodon ?
25: Action Custard
25: shawdy
25: Loli LOVES Rain
25: Child
25: Hiroi
25: Lad
25: keika
33: Mink
33: ezio
33: Planky
33: Dr Souss
33: mistgun

[collapse=Brawl Singles Bracket]

[/collapse]

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This...looks straight-up like a Florida-only tournament.

 

[bubbaking]

Notable players in attendance whom I can quickly recognize: ESAM, NR, Shaky, MVD, GDX, Seibrik, True Blue, and Ed

This is a bit......stacked to just be a 'small local'. <__<

Edit: Oh, Kuro and ExDeath are pretty decent too, I guess...

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Notable players in attendance whom I can quickly recognize: ESAM, NR, Shaky, MVD, GDX, Seibrik, True Blue, and Ed

This is a bit......stacked to just be a 'small local'. <__<

Edit: Oh, Kuro and ExDeath are pretty decent too, I guess...

No, that's what's referred to as a "Florida Local"

Just like a "NY/NJ Local" typically has a combination of M2K, Nairo, Anti, Dabuz, Vinnie, Salem etc

Placing well in a Local shouldn't be mentioned on the same level as Apex, SKTAR etc

 

[bubbaking]

Looking at NR's bracket, his most notable wins (that I can recognize) are over Ed, MVD, and Shaky.

 

[NickRiddle]

Welcome to any of the bigger FL tournaments?

When ESAM is down, he's there, Seibrik lives down the street, MVD/Shaky live less than an hour away. TrueBlue and Ed were down during a school break.

I place 2nd/3rd with these players all the time... Whenever I go to CFL tournaments, it's usually me, shaky, mvd, seibrik, gdx, mampam, ryo... and more... Not sure why this matters in terms of ZSS players placing high. Of course I do well in my state, I've been #1 on our PR for the last two cycles. (since ESAM is 0 due to living here part-time)

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, but I've been to NY/NJ locals. They usually don't have as many as 37 entrants. The ones I've attended haven't anyway... I was going by tourney size here.

And I think it matters 'cause your region has a lot more........variety than what NY/NJ has. NY is kinda MK infested. You have a notable Pika, Wario, Snake, Diddy, Sheilda, Ness, and Sonic, and obviously, there's you, the ZSS.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'mma do post-match commentary of the grand finals to teach peeps how to play MK vs. ZSS

Even if it is only -1, Salem had it way too easy

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Well, someone could also do a post-match commentary on how Salem could have done better in the set.

 

[bubbaking]

^^^^^I saw a couple of mistakes on Salem's part too, so yeah, it works both ways. We're not the ones on the grand stage. They are.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It wouldn't do much because he played pretty impeccably...? Compared to the MKs at least, a few mistakes is no equal to playing he MU completely wrong

I watched the sets again, Dojo is the best at the MU, but he got out-played and made some crucial mistakes that cost him

The commentators were really funny "holy **** bread and butter ZSS combos", "he is using the armor pieces against Salem like anyone with even a smidgen of ZSS experience would do, this is unprecedented"

 

[bubbaking]

You know, if no one made mistakes, then MK would never lose, 'cause y'know, he has no losing MUs. <__<

Technically every MK that ever loses any MU that's not the ditto played the MU 'completely wrong'. If you're outplayed, you're outplayed, and you have to outplay MK to beat him.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

There is a difference between forced and unforced errors.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You know, if no one made mistakes, then MK would never lose, 'cause y'know, he has no losing MUs. <__<

Technically every MK that ever loses any MU that's not the ditto played the MU 'completely wrong'. If you're outplayed, you're outplayed, and you have to outplay MK to beat him.

If no one made mistakes, all games would end in timeouts since no one would do anything.

MK has to outplay every character that goes even with him (and there are characters who go even with him)

@grim, no one is ever forced to make an error

 

[Grim Tuesday]

And every sports coach in the world laughed in unison

Point is, we can keep offering advice to both players until they are both playing absolutely perfectly and the MK wins, but tht wouldn't help anyone.

However, we can keep offering advice to both players until they reach a reasonable level of skill. And when that happens, we'll notice two things
1. The MK needed more advice than Salem
2. The MK will win

Does that make sense?

 

[bubbaking]

@Jebus: The only chars who "go even" with MK are Pika, the spacees, Diddy, the ICS, and maybe ZSS (only now would I believe that), and even then "even" = slight disadvantage. Moreover, chars only "go even" with MK on conservative stagelists. If the stagelist has even the slightest bit of liberality, then you can just cut that list down to just Pika.

Edit: Forgot about Marth on that list, but definitely excluding Oli and Snake. Those are probably MK's easier -1's.

@Grim: How are these two things different?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Don't bother, Jebus has felt that MK has even match-ups for years, you won't change his mind haha

What do you mean how are they different? They are two separate thoughts they are different in a plethora of ways.

 

[bubbaking]

They may be different but they had the same result, which was all that mattered to me.....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That result is? I was just saying that the MKs were worse than Salem but the character wins overall

 

[Z'zgashi]

>MKs were worse than Salem
>MKs including players like M2K and Otori

Im done, ggs

 

[Delta-cod]

I mean, kinda hard to argue against the results.

What is this preconceived notion of player skill? People aren't always gonna be the best.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

>MKs were worse than Salem
>MKs including players like M2K and Otori

Im done, ggs

The better player wins

 

[SaveMeJebus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rieOR-ymbs8&t=4m17s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn1Fgp2Ki7E&t=5m40s (for those who say Will didn't even try to SDI)

Yeah. It's easy to SDI Falco's chain spike and anyone with half a brain can do it (Thank you Grim's sig)

 

[bubbaking]

Well, I know DK doesn't want to be in that kind of position, but to be fair, Luigi probably doesn't mind being right there below the ledge that much, not with his crazy tornado, DJ, and upB all intact. If Falco over-commits at/off the ledge, it can equal a lost stock for him.

Edit: Still, I've seen quite a few matches myself where the opponent has trouble or simply doesn't SDI Falco's spike after the CG.

 

[Caspid]

imagine how much Salem would dominate if he played MK

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If Pika / Falco actually have better spreads than Snake then they are better characters. Just because the tier list or the MU chart don't acknowledge this fact doesn't mean it isn't true.

Define better spread. Having a +4 MU with Gannon is much less important than having a -1 with MK despite the numbers mattering. Hell, having a -1 with MK is more important than having a +2 on any of the following four characters.

 

[M@v]

In regards to the ZSS Hype:

*This is not meant to take away from Salem in any way; the guy went total beast mode this weekend


She's right where she needs to be on the tier list; top of high tier with lucario.

 

[Vinylic.]

I second m@v's post for support.

She stays right where she's at unless proven how and why she deserves to be more above than the average high tier.

 

[*_Echo_*]

The very fact that ZSS already places extremely well in MK-banned tourneys means that ZSS can perform well and win anywhere because Salem has already proven that she can win in an MK-infested bracket, so that means she can feasibly win in BOTH environments. It's not often that my debating opponents actually provide me with ammo like that.

Salem proved that Salem can win in an MK-infested bracket, not ZSS >.>

 

[bubbaking]

Why the heck does that matter? Salem showed the true potential of ZSS, just like ESAM did with Pika and ADHD and Gnes did with Diddy. Saying that Salem's accomplishments don't show what ZSS can do is silly.

Edit: So you're telling me that if Salem beats every top MK he comes across with ZSS, that's not indicative of ZSS being able to beat MKs in a MK-legal tournament? Dafuq? So I guess the character Salem was playing wasn't ZSS, huh. Must have been some other blonde female.....Peach, yeah, I guess that's who you think Salem won Apex with.

I second m@v's post for support.

She stays right where she's at unless proven how and why she deserves to be more above than the average high tier.

You come in here late and miss all the data I gave showing exactly what you're asking for and then you claim that ZSS hasn't proven herself.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

She had the results to move up a spot before Salem placed first.