Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

Lolz, too good! You know, just because of that, I'm not going to edit my mistake like I usually do.

Spoiler

People are saying that?
Uhg.

Salem definitely didn't cruise by. That kid was just on fire the whole night. Taking one look at the top 25 of apex just screams stacked. You're going to run into tough players eventually if you get that far.

Granted some players did get swamped worst in pools then others, but still, Salem was playing his heart out~ Mm but yea. Her getting into the bottom of top tier sounds good. At the least! Honestly, this is the first time for me seeing the extent of ZSS's power.

Agreed on all counts.

....Guys, should I put PMC on my ignore list?

Do it. DO IT NAOW!

People apparently keep forgetting about SKTAR

Spoiler

1. Nairo $630
2. Esam $308
3. Vinnie $168
4. Anti $114
5. Ally $58
5. Trela $58
7. Tyrant $35
7. Rich Brown $35
9: Mew2King
9: Mr. R
9: DEHF
9: Mekos
13: Seibrik
13: Leon
13: Dabuz
13: JBandrew
17: Salem
17: Glutonny
17: Kingtoon
17: Will
17: Pelca
17: Mike Haze
17: Atomsk
17: Nakat

And I'm not sure how to analyze Whobo, as it was MK-banned.

To be fair, I was never of the mind that ZSS should be moved up above Marth, just above Wario (and maybe Pika). The very fact that Salem still got 17th (out of 140 entrants) is pretty darn good, so technically, these results also support a small rise for ZSS.

 

[Seagull Joe]

The only relevant Pika nowadays is ESAM, and he did pretty darn well at this Apex. Don't forget to eliminate all those MKs for a better idea of the other chars' placements.



Tbh, it's ONLY been Trela and Junebug up there who have been showing what Lucario can do. John12346 is kinda following in their footsteps, but it's like Zinoto and P-1 compared to ADHD and Gnes. Still, Lucario should remain in High Tier, and honestly, it doesn't really matter much whether he's right above DDD or right below him. As long as he's above TL and everyone in BL Tier, he's in a good spot.



Top 32 actually...



Wow, this man speaks a lot of the truth.



I still don't really understand how exactly Puff is supposed to fight against a char who simply does nothing but react. For instance, in DDD's case, just face backwards and react to anything Puff does with utilt, bair, or turnaround grab. It sounds oversimplified, but I'm serious. How does Puff realistically get in on this character and secure a comfortable lead? Perhaps you should tell the people you're playing to play more defensively...



You're starting to sound like DarkPch now...

I'm always right. And Nakat went and for his wins in bracket. He quit so long ago son.

 

[Player-1]

he went fox against ryo






















he lost because fox is a terrible a character

 

[SoulPech]

he went fox against ryo




he lost because fox is a terrible a character

Razor lost against Zeton's Fox tho.

 

[DMG]

Snake is also bad, didn't you hear

 

[DK2]

This doesnt look good for Luigi sigh...

 

[eshu125]

"Brawl's char roster is also way larger than Melee's. Being directly below Top Tier in Brawl is MUCH closer to Top than a placement in the middle of High Tier in Melee. I would argue that 10th in Brawl is actually better than 6th in Melee. I kinda disagree when people say that Melee's Top Tier is more balanced than Brawl's. At ROM 5, practically every other place in the top 32 was a Fox. There was one notable exception and it was still a Falco, so it followed the pattern if you extend it to encompass both spacees. The very fact that Top Tier is so small in Melee directly shows how a very small pool of chars dominate Melee tourneys compared to the relatively large Top Tier of Brawl. Overcoming all this imbalance would actually make Armada's feat(s) as great as, if not greater than, Salem's. You never see a Melee Marth winning Apex, although one came close."

(What I'm about to post doesn't prove anything BUT):

ZSS: 10th of the 38 (including shielda) characters in brawl: 73.6th percentile

Peach: 6th of 26 characters in melee: 76.9th percentile

So in terms of the character's placement based on its position on the tier list relative to the full cast, ZSS is technically a more difficult feat (but barely).

But that doesn't necessarily prove anything. There are more factors to be considered considering they are both separate games with separate game mechanics and so on and so forth, but I still stand by my MK argument. He's in his own tier for a good reason.

 

[| Big D |]

Every MK legal national since Apex 2010 has been won by MK, until now.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Stop saying it's a national.

Internationalllllllllll

 

[*_Echo_*]

I knew Olimar would one day become the god of this game. Someday he will even overcome Metaknight (or he'll get banned lol) and bring the brawl universe to its knees as he has done already with the pikmin nation. Bow before Olimar your supreme ruler!

 

[bubbaking]

I'm always right. And Nakat went and for his wins in bracket. He quit so long ago son.

Huh, that's strange. In the Apex '13 Brawl results, it says that Nakat went solo Fox and din't even touch ICs or MK:

[collapse="Click here to see the results!"]1: Salem
2: Mew2King
3: Otori
4: Nairo
5: Anti
5: Mikeneko
7: Mr. R
7: Dabuz
9: Dojo
9: Zero
9: DEHF
9: 9B
13: ESAM
13: Rain
13: Ally
13: Vinnie
17: ADHD
17: Suinoko
17: Zinoto
17: Havok
17: Pwii
17: Kakera
17: Nakat
17: Tyrant
25: Seibrik
25: Bloodcross
25: Earth
25: Shaky
25: Atomsk
25: Denti
25: Leon
25: Nick Riddle [/collapse]

Guess whoever posted this (Omni) should have done a little more research on character use.

 

[Tesh]

suinoko listed as MK too,

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, but what are you saying? It says that in the results..... <__<

Wanted to clear up some misinformation that's been going on around here (that I've unfortunately played a part in). Someone (not naming names unless provoked ) said that NR got 3rd at MLG 2010, and I (and several others, I'm sure) automatically took this as true without double-checking the data, even going so far as to use it in several of my arguments. However, while looking at ZSS tourney data, I caught the mistake.

It was NR's brother, ESAM, who got 4th at MLG 2010. NR placed 12th. This is still quite high, though, when you consider that MLG 2010 had 183 entrants. In fact, NR's 12th place is VERY indicative of a Top Tier character because of one very important detail about MLG 2010: there are NO repeated placings for the entire top 16 of MLG 2010. In other words, there is only one 12th placer (NR), one 13th placer, etc. Therefore, NR's 12th place means he was in the TOP 12 out of 183 entrants at MLG 2010.

Here were the top 32 for MLG 2010:
[collapse=MLG Orlando 2010]
1: Mew2King - $2,500
2: Ally - $1,500
3: Tyrant - $1,000
4: ESAM - $700
5: DieSuperFly - $500
6: ADHD - $350
7: DEHF - $250
8: Biglou - $200
9: Atomsk
10: mikeHAZE
11: Fatal
12: Nick Riddle
13: Lee Martin
14: CO18
15: HRnut
16: Chaz
17: RedHalberd
17: DewDaDash
17: Felix
17: dmbrandon
17: Havok
17: Chu Dat
17: lain
17: Candy
25: bschung
25: Tearbear
25: Seibrik
25: MeroKnight
25: Dao
25: Shadow_111
25: kismet2
25: Mk18[/collapse]
Notice how no placements were repeated until 17th place.

I double-checked everything else though, and all the other tourneys stated are accurate. NR did get 5th at WHOBO 4 and 2nd at Smashed Together. V115 did get 4th at IMPULSE. Salem did get 17th at SKTAR (out of 140 entrants). And NR did place extremely well out of 183 entrants at MLG 2010.

#ZSSForTopTier.

 

[ぱみゅ]

MLG 2010 was a circuit with several tournaments.

ESAM placed 4th with Pikachu in one.
Nick Riddle placed 3rd with ZSS in another one.

 

[DMG]

Yeah. Nick Riddle got 3rd at one of the MLG'S

 

[bubbaking]

Well overall, he got 12th right? Like after all the circuits added up, he got 12th? Or was Orlando just 'one of the circuits'? If the latter's the case, then ZSS' results are even BETTER than I thought. It means that NR got top 12 at a MLG circuit with 183 entrants, and 3rd at another MLG that probably had a comparable number of entrants to that Orlando one. Holy cow, good **** Nick! How is ZSS not Top Tier yet again?

Edit: So I got really interested in NR's MLG 2010 results, so I checked some (maybe all?) of them out. What I found surprised me and I'm surprised ZSS never rose any higher on the tier list than she was back then and that it seriously took so long just for her to be placed over Lucario. My findings:

1. MLG Orlando - Top 12 out of 183 entrants
2. MLG Dallas - Top 14 out of 182 entrants
3. MLG D.C. - Top 24 (17th) out of 174 entrants
4. MLG Columbus - 3rd out of 250 entrants

After so many extremely good placings, especially that last one, how did ZSS not end up in Top Tier in 2010? Rather she was always below Lucario and she was even below TL and Pit for a time...

 

[*_Echo_*]

One player does not prove a character.

 

[bubbaking]

So then why is Pikachu in Top Tier? <____<

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Worth noting that Salem trolled up SKTAR apparently, picking random and ****.

Oh, and one player can only make a character when our preconceived notions match reality, when they cease to match then one player isn't enough. Anyone else remember fiction and wario at 3rd place? lol

Everyone really wanted Pikachu to be good, so when Anther came along and started ****ing everyone up, Pikachu went up non-stop on the Confirmation Bias Express. When ZSS does well, one player isn't enough even when ZSS has more than one player. LOL

 

[DMG]

Wario had much better results back in the day overall, and the MK MU was considered to not be as bad lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

...Kind of? I mean he definitely had the kind of results you'd expect from a high tier character, because he's high tier and people bothered to play him.

 

[Shaya]

He had 4th best results for a good like 1.5 to 2 years of this game's history.

And yes I know the "hurrp durrp people can only think of a character from 08 perspective", but realistically its not that his match ups have gotten worse, but his player base dropped close to nil, realistically.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

A ton of his results came from people using him as a wildcard pick when their mains lost tbh

His match-ups have also definitely gotten worse (or were never that good, however you want to look at it). MK comes to mind right away.

Uh oh, this guy knows the MK match-up. WILDCARD WARIO!

 

[DMG]

Back in the day you actually had solid Wario results/representation and EC was the only region that did not (I'm talking before the days of Malcolm picking him up, before the days of xyz secondary Wario). Fiction wasn't the only one doing good: most regions had PR's with Wario pretty high up there.

I still stand by that Wario's MU spread got worse over time, for most MU's. MK and IC's come immediately to mind, few arguments were had over whether Marth was only 55:45, Pikachu also got much more even. Then there were quite a few characters that "seemed" like easy 6:4 MU's for him that are probably closer to 55:45 or possibly even these days (ZSS, ROB, Olimar, TL, Diddy).

 

[bubbaking]

Back in the day you actually had solid Wario results/represensation

Wario is the only one who can represent a sensation like this.

 

[DMG]

If your mustache wasn't so damn good, I'd destroy your soul

 

[Salem]

mk, ics/olimar/snake zss marth pika wario/diddy

^

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

dabuz, m2k, and salem say zss is top tier

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW

I mean, SFP says so too and he's arguably smarter and better looking than all of them, but their opinions sure do help

 

[Shaya]

I didn't feel I needed to specifically mention the obvious Meta Knight MU. But no prominent Wario has ever existed at the same time as prominent Diddys, Olimars, Ice Climbers and even Pikachu/Zero Suits.

If Brawl lasts long enough I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence in Wario in the same way Marth / Falco kinda do from time to time.

 

[pidgezero_one]

dabuz, m2k, and salem say zss is top tier

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW

I mean, SFP says so too and he's arguably smarter and better looking than all of them, but their opinions sure do help

That isn't fair. It's hard to look better than a supermodel from Paris.

 

[infiniteV115]

mk, ics/olimar/snake zss marth pika wario/diddy

^

No Flaoc?
I approve.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Salem has said a few times he thinks Falco is bad LOL

 

[Salem]

Falco is bad.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

MK, Oli/ICs/Snake, Diddy/ZSS/Marth, Falco/Pika/Wario

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Falco's still something like Top 3. Don't kid yourselves.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think what I said about falco in 2009 is still true, you could give his neutral B to any character in the game and they'd suddenly be at least high tier.

Zelda, Bowser, Ganon, or Jigglypuff with Falco lasers could win tournaments,

 

[RaptorTEC]

People gotta stop being silly saying Esam is the only good pikachu.

 

[Baskerville]

Are there any other good Pikas that are slightly below or on par with ESAM? I'd really like to know.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Z

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Pikapika still plays, right? He was at APEX, at least.