Official BBR Tier List v6

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Well tell me xdeath which players are high level mks?

 

[Exdeath]

I said outcome...not matchup they would play...read bro...

You asked about the outcome of not having a choice to use MK. You did not specify whether or not you meant the game/set/etc. I specified a possible outcome of his character choice... comprehend bro...

I'm not saying he couldn't beat us with other chrs.(snake for wyatt, wario for me), but he choose mk. Think about that for yourself.

So you're saying that he used the character that he has more experience with against you and then the character that he was already warmed up with for the opponent after you?

 

[Gnes]

Actually he has more experience with me as wario than mk(one set with mk, two sets with wario/snake), and has more experience with snake against wyatt than mk. He used falco the first 3 games against me, then mk the last 2(I was up 2-1 after tripping into a upsmash game 1).

I suggest you do your research before firing witty remarks.

Why struggle with other chrs. in evenish matchups when you can just go mk.

 

[Exdeath]

Actually he has more experience with me as wario than mk(one set with mk, two sets with wario/snake), and has more experience with snake against wyatt than mk. He used falco the first 3 games against me, then mk the last 2(I was up 2-1 after tripping into a upsmash game 1).

I suggest you do your research before firing witty remarks.

I said more experience, not more experience within that tournament. How many times has he used Wario against you before Genesis 2. I thought that it was the first -- am I wrong on this?

I explained away ADHD with him having just finished using MK the last two games before playing against him. I actually agree with your point, however if you leave a point point open then you should expect a ? answer.

wittyface.jpg

Well tell me xdeath which players are high level mks?

That's actually a really hard question to answer, but mainly because I don't think that I'm a high level player. With that said, I think that most of the successful MKs/ICs/Diddy Kongs on a local/regional level are closer to being mid-level players.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Gnes going in :D

 

[PKNintendo]

Actually he has more experience with me as wario than mk(one set with mk, two sets with wario/snake), and has more experience with snake against wyatt than mk. He used falco the first 3 games against me, then mk the last 2(I was up 2-1 after tripping into a upsmash game 1).

I suggest you do your research before firing witty remarks.

Why struggle with other chrs. in evenish matchups when you can just go mk.

Lol quote for the ****ing win. Everyday I'm getting closer to saying that MK is Brawl on easy mode.

 

[Blissard]

This game should be called SSMK. Super Smash Metaknights.

 

[the king of murder]

 

[M@v]

Why struggle with other chrs. in evenish matchups when you can just go mk.

This. The current metagame gives you no reason not to main mk if your playing to win.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Point being xdeath is that mk top level or mediocre looks almost the same. Bad mks just don't utilize the best option at all times. Whereas many top Mks abuse one to three moves and give other top level players a very hard time. Its just a matter of rinsing & repeating perfectly

 

[BSP]

That picture is so outdated

We now know that snake is a risky endeavor vs. MK

 

[Mr-R]

How bout u guys ban RC/Brinstar first before thinkin bout banning MK.
ever thought of that? why do u think europe and japan don't have this MK problem.

inb4 because we're better

 

[Gindler]

It's not easier to become high level with MK. It's easier to play at high level with MK. There's a big difference.

It's not easier to make a delicious grilled cheese sandwich. It's easier to grill up a delicious cheese sandwich. There's little difference.



Really though...what did that even mean? maybe i'm too tired to comprehend

 

[Luigi player]

Actually he has more experience with me as wario than mk(one set with mk, two sets with wario/snake), and has more experience with snake against wyatt than mk. He used falco the first 3 games against me, then mk the last 2(I was up 2-1 after tripping into a upsmash game 1).

I suggest you do your research before firing witty remarks.

Why struggle with other chrs. in evenish matchups when you can just go mk.

dang, now we know the real problem! you would've had another game if that didnt happen

badgameisbad

 

[vVv Rapture]

How bout u guys ban RC/Brinstar first before thinkin bout banning MK.
ever thought of that? why do u think europe and japan don't have this MK problem.

inb4 because we're better

Maybe because everyone is aggro-happy in Europe except Orion and everyone in the US doesn't mind playing as campy as possible? MK gets hurt from playing aggro just as any other character does; playing offensively is bad in Brawl.

Ban RC/Brinstar? CP Frigate, scrooge without ledgegrabs. CP Smashville, timeout. CP PS1, run away. CP PS2, run away. CP anything, run away.

Or:

Win Game 1.
Lose Game 2.
Get a cp Game 3. Do anything, you're Metaknight.

 

[BSP]

You forgot Delfino

It's the character, not the stages

 

[Mr-R]

Maybe because everyone is aggro-happy in Europe except Orion and everyone in the US doesn't mind playing as campy as possible? MK gets hurt from playing aggro just as any other character does; playing offensively is bad in Brawl.

LOL our metaknights are NOT even close to aggro, name the ones u find ''aggro'' im dying to know.

Ban RC/Brinstar? CP Frigate, scrooge without ledgegrabs. CP Smashville, timeout. CP PS1, run away. CP PS2, run away. CP anything, run away.

RC/Brinstar benefit mk much more then the other ones u listed.

Or:

Win Game 1.
Lose Game 2.
Get RC/Brinstar Game 3. Do anything, you're Metaknight.

Fixed that for u ^

 

[PKNintendo]

Geez ban RC now and down the road MK will found a way to break another stage. Heh

 

[BlueXenon]

Why is Zelda 2nd to last? She has great match ups. She only has 6 terrible match ups.

 

[Fuujin]

Zelda
She has great match ups.

Image removed

 

[vVv Rapture]

LOL our metaknights are NOT even close to aggro, name the ones u find ''aggro'' im dying to know.

No, I was actually asking if that's how they play. I haven't seen many Euro-MKs. I know it sounded a bit sarcastic or whatever, but I was genuinely asking a question.

My other points still stand.

 

[Judo777]

How bout u guys ban RC/Brinstar first before thinkin bout banning MK.
ever thought of that? why do u think europe and japan don't have this MK problem.

inb4 because we're better

Why ban a perfectly good stage? I personally love Brinstar (tho my char is bad there) and I know lots that would argue RC.

And MK's tactics are a problem on SV. We should ban that too?

 

[Mr-R]

Why ban a perfectly good stage? I personally love Brinstar (tho my char is bad there) and I know lots that would argue RC.

A good stage? 99 % of the time we see that stage, we ALSO see a MK playing on it.
Banning brinstar would decrease mk's dominance by ALOT.

And MK's tactics are a problem on SV. We should ban that too?

Since when ? I can't remember the last time I saw a timeout between 2 top players on that stage.

 

[John12346]

We've had tournaments here in NYC where Brinstar wasn't legal. MK still placed too high.

Also Mr-R, out of curiosity, who are the best 3 MKs in Europe? Exclude Ally and Orion, obv, since they're not EU

 

[Exdeath]

MK still placed too high.

How high should MK place?

 

[John12346]

"MK placed really high, as usual."

/nitpick

 

[Tesh]

I don't see why banning Brinstar is out of the question. Its existence is basically only usable by MK. Its not like at top level play you can CP olimar, diddy kong, ics there without them going to their pocket MK anyway. It basically doesn't serve a purpose for any other character except MAYBE gnw. There is a clear precedent for building the stagelist around MK so its not as if this would be going too far.

I personally prefer fighting MK on RC over frigate/brinstar, but some character fare better on frigate/delfino.

I would hate to see the stagelist so biased against decent aerial characters like Pit and Gnw just because of MK though. Its clear that at the very least, many people can agree that MK +RC/Brinstar is not fair. So why not just disallow this combo?

 

[Shaya]

M2K v ADHD was going to go to time on smashville first match.
I'm pretty sure M2K got told something along the lines of 'scroogings probably banned' (he didn't know; in fact it wasn't) and he got back on stage. It was less than 30 seconds on the clock IIRC.

Smashville can be dangerous for MK to scrooge on, but most characters have absolutely no chance to combat it (only the characters with fast running speeds can even have a chance).
MK is very susceptible to getting footstooled in his glide, while he can just side b to the ledge you're not running towards that's adding towards his ledge grabs (and then the platform isn't available for him again). For characters with good fast falls/vertical recoveries (MK, Snake, Marth, Wario, Pikachu, ZSS) one mess up from MK can be his stock. Inb4 you say I'm full of crap but this actually is a legit counter to scrooging that M2K has talked to me about, he's said to me he doesn't 'scrooge' against people who know how to beat it. Its around the same level of "balls" required as going off stage to footstool snake's c4 stuff.

 

[Tesh]

M2K v ADHD was going to go to time on smashville first match.
I'm pretty sure M2K got told something along the lines of 'scroogings probably banned' (he didn't know; in fact it wasn't) and he got back on stage. It was less than 30 seconds on the clock IIRC.

Smashville can be dangerous for MK to scrooge on, but most characters have absolutely no chance to combat it (only the characters with fast running speeds can even have a chance).
MK is very susceptible to getting footstooled in his glide, while he can just side b to the ledge you're not running towards that's adding towards his ledge grabs (and then the platform isn't available for him again). For characters with good fast falls/vertical recoveries (MK, Snake, Marth, Wario, Pikachu, ZSS) one mess up from MK can be his stock. Inb4 you say I'm full of crap but this actually is a legit counter to scrooging that M2K has talked to me about, he's said to me he doesn't 'scrooge' against people who know how to beat it. Its around the same level of "balls" required as going off stage to footstool snake's c4 stuff.

Yea I'm sure forcing him to consume 1 or 2 ledgegrabs is worth getting hit with uair, shuttle loop, offstage drill rush or w/e. I'm sure after you try to footstool him 10 times, he isn't going to react and punish you for it.

 

[Exdeath]

Yea I'm sure forcing him to consume 1 or 2 ledgegrabs is worth getting hit with uair, shuttle loop, offstage drill rush or w/e. I'm sure after you try to footstool him 10 times, he isn't going to react and punish you for it.

You can't Uair/Up-B/Side-B out of a glide.

 

[Tesh]

You can cancel the glide....

 

[Exdeath]

You can cancel the glide....

Except that it takes so long to do so that even the average player is capable of reacting to it.

 

[Judo777]

A good stage? 99 % of the time we see that stage, we ALSO see a MK playing on it.
Banning brinstar would decrease mk's dominance by ALOT.




Since when ? I can't remember the last time I saw a timeout between 2 top players on that stage.

That's because everytime someone CPs it its either alreayd a fight with MK or one player switches to MK for a free win. No one wants to CP others there because they will get pocket MKed. Brinstar is a great CP for Wario, GW, Luigi, DK, Marth (sometimes at least from what i hear), too bad MK is better than all of them there.

Also if you haven't seen a timeout match on SV you need to look a little harder. M2K Gnes......... M2K ADHD............ 2 that come to mind immediately.

@ shaya its about the same balls as trying against Snake except when you go after Snake he HAS to do that one action and if you don't hit Snake he can't proceed to gimp you.

 

[BSP]

So if for some reason people started abusing SV with MK more, would we consider banning that too? Frigate as well?

 

[OverLade]

Lmao at this nonsense. There's absolutely no such thing as unsafe scrooging on smashville.

MK can just glide low, and come up by the platform. If his opponent tries any funnny business by the platform or ledge he can just unglide and use Uair/Tornado to safely land on stage or force his opponent off the ledge. It can only even be mildly an issue if you start gliding with only a few jumps left, in which case they might be able to force you to side B or tornado, but you have so many options anyway that you probably shouldn't get punished if you're smart about it...

 

[Shaya]

As I said, this is what M2K told me. You got to realise that a player can get a footstool jump without 'footstooling' the opponent, and the range of a footstool jump is disjointed as well. You can footstool MK without getting hit by uair, and tornado is very easy to avoid getting hit by to footstool.

I personally practised as Marth against his MK with him 'scrooging' on smashville. If he cancelled and started something else I would still get a footstool jump, if he was trolling he would try to kill you with a shuttle loop which like 90% of the time would kill him as well. Cancelling into uair may get him a string if you were low percent at the time, but there is a bit of lag after cancelling a glide.

I wonder how many people actually sit down and practise against scrooging [on smashville] with their character.

 

[BRLNK88]

So I'm guessing that Toon will never move up thanks to his MU with MK?

 

[golcarjack]

Im not really a big fan of tier lists although i do like this one.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

A good stage? 99 % of the time we see that stage, we ALSO see a MK playing on it.
Banning brinstar would decrease mk's dominance by ALOT.




Since when ? I can't remember the last time I saw a timeout between 2 top players on that stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teeGATkxAVA

 

[Exdeath]

MK can just glide low, and come up by the platform.

I'm pretty sure that Shaya is referring to a low glide.

As I said, this is what M2K told me. You got to realise that a player can get a footstool jump without 'footstooling' the opponent, and the range of a footstool jump is disjointed as well. You can footstool MK without getting hit by uair, and tornado is very easy to avoid getting hit by to footstool.

I personally practised as Marth against his MK with him 'scrooging' on smashville. If he cancelled and started something else I would still get a footstool jump, if he was trolling he would try to kill you with a shuttle loop which like 90% of the time would kill him as well. Cancelling into uair may get him a string if you were low percent at the time, but there is a bit of lag after cancelling a glide.

I wonder how many people actually sit down and practise against scrooging [on smashville] with their character.

I actually do practice scrooging and level 9 CPUs (Falco and Snake CPUs are very difficult to react to) will randomly run-off and foot stool me (which it can definitely force you to use a B move to recover a.k.a. grab the ledge). Something that M2K forgot to add was that you can glide high (running just below the stage on the destination side -- this also makes it so that a foot stool won't kill you) and then you have several mix-ups against anyone trying to foot stool him. Some particularly good ones are:

-MK can glide to the ledge and from there you can either be off-stage or you'll react to him grabbing the ledge by double jumping toward the stage early, a.k.a. in a juggle position by the ledge without your double jump. If MK is wrong then he's on the ledge and used one ledge grab (Fox/Falco would probably be safe from being punished this way).

-MK can cancel before he reaches the end of the stage and then jump>Down-B and react to the opponent to recover onto the platform or onto the stage. Alternatively, MK can Up-B (some characters like Snake have options to trade beat someone throwing out aerial Up-Bs by the ledge) and cancel tip of the Up-B onto the platform.

As a side note, it is easily possible for Meta Knight to eat 30+ seconds off of a clock with one scrooge by using Up-B off the top of the screen. MK will have to take a hit that the opponent can prepare for, but that still excludes move likes Snake's Fsmash.